Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 4:25 PM, KelsaysLunchbox said: No. But they should show Haley the door. I agree. A lot of the poor decisions on Sunday were Haley's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I agree. A lot of the poor decisions on Sunday were Haley's Haley's contract is up anyway. Would not be a surprise if he moves on given the tension between him and Big Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seregil42 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said: Bill Cowher says "Hi" Bill Cowher at least has the excuse that he never had a QB until Big Ben (reaching a Super Bowl with Neil O'Donnell). And then he won the Super Bowl once he got him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan130 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Just now, 26CornerBlitz said: Haley's contract is up anyway. Would not be a surprise if he moves on given the tension between him and Big Ben. Ya a lot of signs are pointing that Haley's contract won't be renewed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I agree. A lot of the poor decisions on Sunday were Haley's Onside kick is always HC decision. It's part of clock management as well. And understanding your Defense. Tomlin failed at everything with that one bad decision (not his only one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 31 minutes ago, seregil42 said: Bill Cowher at least has the excuse that he never had a QB until Big Ben (reaching a Super Bowl with Neil O'Donnell). And then he won the Super Bowl once he got him. O'Donnell was a very good QB, Stewart was a good QB, Maddox was a good QB. Don't write off non-Super Bowl winning QBs just because the Bills haven't had a real QB since Jim Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said: Onside kick is always HC decision. It's part of clock management as well. And understanding your Defense. Tomlin failed at everything with that one bad decision (not his only one). Oh, I agree - and ultimately, the buck for all decisions stops with the HC. I do think Haley has persuaded the whole organization to go with his analytics/probability based approach, and I think if Haley hadn't made so many goofball calls, it wouldn't have come down to an onside kick. But fundamentally the Steelers problem with that game is that their defense was facing a "meh" offense with a great RB, and they couldn't shut it down. Edited January 16, 2018 by Hapless Bills Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seregil42 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 22 minutes ago, row_33 said: O'Donnell was a very good QB, Stewart was a good QB, Maddox was a good QB. Don't write off non-Super Bowl winning QBs just because the Bills haven't had a real QB since Jim Kelly. O'Donnell was ok, but in a league that had Kelly, Aikman, Elway, Montana, Young, etc, he wasn't good enough. Same with Maddox. In what world was Stewart a good QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 18 minutes ago, row_33 said: O'Donnell was a very good QB, Stewart was a good QB, Maddox was a good QB. Don't write off non-Super Bowl winning QBs just because the Bills haven't had a real QB since Jim Kelly. O'Donnell wasn't a very good QB. He averaged about 14 TD's a year, career 81.8 rating, 57.8% completion percentage and only threw for 3,000 yards once. Kordell Stewart was a terrible QB. More INT's than TD's, 55.8% completion percentage, 70.7 rating and was benched multiple times. Tommy Maddox was a terrible QB. More INT's than TD's, 57.2% completion percentage, 72.4 rating, played for 5 teams in 9 years. Cowher worked with crap before he got Big Ben. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talley56 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I have never been sold on Tomlin. From the time he got there he had an established franchise QB, a team who just won a Super Bowl, and a ton of talent to work with. Let’s see how he would do with a rebuilding team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 27 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: O'Donnell wasn't a very good QB. He averaged about 14 TD's a year, career 81.8 rating, 57.8% completion percentage and only threw for 3,000 yards once. Kordell Stewart was a terrible QB. More INT's than TD's, 55.8% completion percentage, 70.7 rating and was benched multiple times. Tommy Maddox was a terrible QB. More INT's than TD's, 57.2% completion percentage, 72.4 rating, played for 5 teams in 9 years. Cowher worked with crap before he got Big Ben. a Bills fan calling other teams QBs terrible? that is to laugh... and using those stats is even more laughable I'd have taken O'Donnell and Stewart and Maddox and even Tomczak in a heartbeat over any Bills QB since Jim Kelly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 looks like the minor partners want him fired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seregil42 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, row_33 said: a Bills fan calling other teams QBs terrible? that is to laugh... and using those stats is even more laughable I'd have taken O'Donnell and Stewart and Maddox and even Tomczak in a heartbeat over any Bills QB since Jim Kelly You completely changed the argument. We aren't discussing if any of them were better than the Bills QBs of the past 20 years. But keep laughing, I suppose. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Just now, row_33 said: a Bills fan calling other teams QBs terrible? that is to laugh... and using those stats is even more laughable I'd have taken O'Donnell and Stewart and Maddox and even Tomczak in a heartbeat over any Bills QB since Jim Kelly Let me get this straight, since we have had bad QB's, I can't call other QB's bad? I guess I can't call Jamarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf bad. What kind of logical thinking is that? Those stats are even more laughable? Across the board, their stats are absolutely terrible. I guess you like QB's that turn the ball over more than they score. Geezus. 2 minutes ago, seregil42 said: You completely changed the argument. We aren't discussing if any of them were better than the Bills QBs of the past 20 years. But keep laughing, I suppose. Mike Tomzack and Kordell Stewart over Drew Bledsoe LOL.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I think this would go against everything that makes the Steelers great, but it doesn't sound good for Tomlin. I wonder what they would do at HC if they do fire him. They typically go with young up and coming coaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seregil42 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said: Let me get this straight, since we have had bad QB's, I can't call other QB's bad? I guess I can't call Jamarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf bad. What kind of logical thinking is that? Those stats are even more laughable? Across the board, their stats are absolutely terrible. I guess you like QB's that turn the ball over more than they score. Geezus. Mike Tomzack and Kordell Stewart over Drew Bledsoe LOL.... Good lord, I would have even been tempted to take Rob Johnson over Kordell Stewart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Pretty good points by Brooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I'll be honest, if the Bills had Brady, Brees, Rodgers, or Roethlisberger I would expect at least a divisional championship appearance every year. Makes coaching so much easier when you have that guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seregil42 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: 1 minute ago, 26CornerBlitz said: Pretty good points by Brooks. They are valid points, but so is the fact that Tomlin has a HOF QB, arguably the best RB in the NFL, the best WR in the NFL and yet can't get it done year after year. Imagine if Belicheck had those guys at his disposal. And again, Cowher didn't have any QB to work with until Ben. Heck, John Harbaugh won a Super Bowl with less talent than what Tomlin has. I think Tomlin is an okay coach, but he is definitely under-achieving. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Rex needs to don the shades, exit the booth, and get onto the sidelines as the Steelers DC stat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greybeard Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 4:28 PM, Ennjay said: He's not a bad coach but he's not special either -- he's no legend. Seems to me the Steelers are kind of stale and they should have done better most of this year, not just today. Would you rearrange the coaching just to freshen things up? Or leave things as they are and hope for better results next year? Did you wonder the same thing about Polian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Oh, I agree - and ultimately, the buck for all decisions stops with the HC. I do think Haley has persuaded the whole organization to go with his analytics/probability based approach, and I think if Haley hadn't made so many goofball calls, it wouldn't have come down to an onside kick. But fundamentally the Steelers problem with that game is that their defense was facing a "meh" offense with a great RB, and they couldn't shut it down. The problem wasn't that Haley's offense didn't score enough points. It's that it's defense got way behind early to an inferior offense that managed 10 points against the Bills. The problem was that this HC was completely unprepared and seemed to have made no changes after this same Bortles led offense blew him out, also at home, earlier this season. What exactly is Tomlin good at, other than "menacing glare"? If this post season didn't get him fired, the Rooney Rulers are never letting him go. 31 minutes ago, Greybeard said: Did you wonder the same thing about Polian? ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 1:28 PM, Ennjay said: He's not a bad coach but he's not special either -- he's no legend. Seems to me the Steelers are kind of stale and they should have done better most of this year, not just today. Would you rearrange the coaching just to freshen things up? Or leave things as they are and hope for better results next year? Fair question... IMO Tomlin is overrated. He makes a lot of poor decisions over the course of his career, decisions that cost them. The Steelers are as well run as NE, and people over look that. Just like with QB's, Head Coaches both get way too much credit at times and way too much blame at times. Tomlin greatly benefits from an organization that continually drafts well and makes good personnel decisions to keep the team competitive to very good. To be clear, while I think he is overrated, I also do not think Tomlin is a terrible coach and the Pittsburgh could do a lot worse than him. Honestly, his personality, demeanor and who is as a person he is a great fit for that team. I don't think he should be fired yet, but also don't think he should be untouchable either or blameless. I would say its warranted to say his seat should be warm, just don't know it should be categorized yet as being on the "hot" seat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berg1029 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 As Bills fans, I'm sure there are plenty here that would agree with this fact: you can do a lot worse than Mike Tomlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 23 minutes ago, berg1029 said: As Bills fans, I'm sure there are plenty here that would agree with this fact: you can do a lot worse than Mike Tomlin We've seen much worse with the Bills too many times in the team's history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 On 1/14/2018 at 8:16 PM, YoloinOhio said: Yes. He’s an idiot. I question his situational skills, but I honestly think most people don't understand how difficult it is to unite 53 players game after game, especially when half of them are violent sociopaths. Consistently leading players and getting buy-in are not easy things to do, and he's good at that part of it. A lot of coaches aren't good at it. I always go back to Joe Torre. Was he the greatest late-game manager? No. But he was a great manager of people, and was able to keep a team of superstar millionaires (many of them inherently selfish) united and team-oriented for a long time. 22 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said: Fair question... IMO Tomlin is overrated. He makes a lot of poor decisions over the course of his career, decisions that cost them. The Steelers are as well run as NE, and people over look that. Just like with QB's, Head Coaches both get way too much credit at times and way too much blame at times. Tomlin greatly benefits from an organization that continually drafts well and makes good personnel decisions to keep the team competitive to very good. To be clear, while I think he is overrated, I also do not think Tomlin is a terrible coach and the Pittsburgh could do a lot worse than him. Honestly, his personality, demeanor and who is as a person he is a great fit for that team. I don't think he should be fired yet, but also don't think he should be untouchable either or blameless. I would say its warranted to say his seat should be warm, just don't know it should be categorized yet as being on the "hot" seat. See above. He has definite weaknesses, but too many don't look at the strengths he possesses because all they see are the games. A lot more goes into it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed83HOF Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, dave mcbride said: I question his situational skills, but I honestly think most people don't understand how difficult it is to unite 53 players game after game, especially when half of them are violent sociopaths. Consistently leading players and getting buy-in are not easy things to do, and he's good at that part of it. A lot of coaches aren't good at it. I always go back to Joe Torre. Was he the greatest late-game manager? No. But he was a great manager of people, and was able to keep a team of superstar millionaires (many of them inherently selfish) united and team-oriented for a long time. Not to be a homer, but you could include Marv in that comment as well, minus Torre's success of course... Steelers problems also stem from the lack of veteran leadership that used to be there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big C Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Talked to a friend who is a Steelers fan. He hated Haley most, but did think this past week could have been used as an opportunity to make a change at HC too. We agreed that his teams are consistently undisciplined and he still makes too many poor choices in-game. Hard to ignore the numbers over 11 years, but you have the best receiver and back in the league, a hall of fame QB and three pro-bowlers on the line and you haven't been to the Super Bowl in 7 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nedboy7 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Waiting for this to turn into a TT sucks thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 7 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said: Not to be a homer, but you could include Marv in that comment as well, minus Torre's success of course... Steelers problems also stem from the lack of veteran leadership that used to be there... I think Marv fits this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bing Bong Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Nah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corta765 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I wouldn't fire him but he did what I would have done which is fire the OC in Haley. I think its easier for fans and media to say fire a coach from the outside when they don't see the destruction replacing coaches every few years does to a franchise (minus Bills fans we know this first hand). I think one causality of having the Patriots winning and in the SB or AFC title game almost every year is people forget how hard it is to get to those places. If you were to name the top coaches in football after BB in terms of consistent success, Tomlin is on the short list with Pete Carroll, Mike McCarthy, Sean Payton, & John Harbaugh. Every one of these coaches has been in SB's, won their division, made multiple conference title games etc.. I believe that is what you would want as the standard for your teams success with a coach. I do think he blew it with this years team and he let that roster become far too focused on NE and the AFC title then just winning games. But I can't blame the guy for either Denver loss when they had multiple starters out for injuries that would've altered the game. And he did make the AFC Title game again last season. There is only one conference champion and unfortunately for him they face the Patriots every year. I think criticizing a guy like Mike McCarthy would be far more fair because of the fact they don't have a juggernaut in the NFC like NE who is so dam consistently strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 hours ago, dave mcbride said: I question his situational skills, but I honestly think most people don't understand how difficult it is to unite 53 players game after game, especially when half of them are violent sociopaths. Consistently leading players and getting buy-in are not easy things to do, and he's good at that part of it. A lot of coaches aren't good at it. I always go back to Joe Torre. Was he the greatest late-game manager? No. But he was a great manager of people, and was able to keep a team of superstar millionaires (many of them inherently selfish) united and team-oriented for a long time. See above. He has definite weaknesses, but too many don't look at the strengths he possesses because all they see are the games. A lot more goes into it. I agree with you, which is why I said in my response that everything about Tomlin is a perfect fit for that roster and organization. He is overrated, but he is also not a bad coach. Your Joe Torre example pretty much nails my sentiment on how I feel about him as well. Good post. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheFunPolice Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 (edited) Tomlin is the super intense guy who smashes down or runs through brick walls in his quest to win. Meanwhile, Belichick just walks around the wall and stands there grinning while you are sitting on the ground picking pieces of shattered rock out of your arms. Meanwhile, the score is 14-0 and he's ahead. Your move. Edited January 17, 2018 by TheFunPolice 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 They are going to have a hard time getting a more talented team for him to squander. I'd consider a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26CornerBlitz Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wily Dog Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I think it would be ridiculous to fire Tomlin. Sure he has some problems but in the long run wouldn't you have wanted Mike to be our Coach for the past ten years rather than the clown show we have been forced to take , present Coach excluded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 I never saw the "it" factor that made Tomlin a well respected HC. Apparently there is a faction in ownership that wants him gone. 2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said: Tomlin is the super intense guy who smashes down or runs through brick walls in his quest to win. Meanwhile, Belichick just walks around the wall and stands there grinning while you are sitting on the ground picking pieces of shattered rock out of your arms. Meanwhile, the score is 14-0 and he's ahead. Your move. This all day long and twice on Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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