Time of Possession: A key reason why the defense is likely spent

[SaviorPeterman]

Here are the official numbers on TOP courtesy of Mike Rodak:

 

Quote

Mike Rodak‏Verified account @mikerodak 3h3 hours ago

 

 

Mike Rodak Retweeted Todd Olson

Ask and you shall receive. Since Week 5, Bills rank 29th in TOP/game (27:30). Their 18:37 vs. Saints was Buffalo’s lowest since Week 14 of 2005.

 

Why is this important?

It's tangible evidence proving that the defense is struggling because Taylor has not been able to move this offense consistently. Too many 3 and outs and short possessions. And I've maintained for some time that eventually this defense will simply quit when they know they don't have a legit QB that can move the ball and score points.

 

Not sure what other metrics McD and his staff need to see that it's simply not working with Taylor.

Edited November 13, 2017 by SaviorPeterman

[BillsFan130]

Not buying it to be honest.

 

10 days rest they had before this saints game. They just got owned plain and simple in my opinion

 

 

 

[Coach55]

28 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Not buying it to be honest.

 

10 days rest they had before this saints game. They just got owned plain and simple in my opinion

 

 

 

Totally agree.  I would almost make the argument that the defense's inability to get New Orleans off the field kept Taylor and the offense cold and thus led to the poor performance.  Below are the drive summaries.  You can't win when you can't stop them... ever. 

 

Drive 1 - 10 plays, 75 yds - TD

Drive 2 - 9 plays, 46 yds - Ended in Fumble at the Bills 9 (had it not, more points)

Drive 3 - 9 plays, 48 yds - TD

Drive 4 - 9 plays, 75 yds - FG

Drive 5 (I am skipping the kneel down for the half) - 9 plays, 75 yds - TD

Drive 6 - 1 play, 3 yds - TD

Drive 7 - 10 plays, 94 yds - TD

Drive 8 - 14 plays, 52 yds - FG

Drive 9 - 2 plays, 44 yds - TD

Drive 10 - victory formation...

 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Coach55

[Mr. WEO]

Why don't they just force a three and out so they can go rest a little? 

[blargo]

2 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Not buying it to be honest.

 

10 days rest they had before this saints game. They just got owned plain and simple in my opinion

 

 

 

I agree.  The defense could not get off the field yesterday at all, even in the first half.  The Offense plays a part in this and if the D played great in first half and as the game went on wore down I could buy the argument.  But the D only stopped them on that 1 turnover in first half.

[Bangarang]

We don’t have to blame everything on Tyrod. This defense couldn’t stop a nose bleed yesterday. The ToP didn’t help but the Saints ran it down their throats and they couldn’t stop it.

[NoSaint]

41 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

Here are the official numbers on TOP courtesy of Mike Rodak:

 

 

Why is this important?

It's tangible evidence proving that the defense is struggling because Taylor has not been able to move this offense consistently. Too many 3 and outs and short possessions. And I've maintained for some time that eventually this defense will simply quit when they know they don't have a legit QB that can move the ball and score points.

 

Not sure what other metrics McD and his staff need to see that it's simply not working with Taylor.

It’s tangible evidence they are on the field more than the offense. They could be struggling for any number of reasons. That’s likely part of the reason but doubtfully most of it

[DC Greg]

29 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

Not buying it to be honest.

 

10 days rest they had before this saints game. They just got owned plain and simple in my opinion

 

 

 

 

The number of days you had to rest prior to a game doesn't really change the fatigue that happens in game from having to go back in series after series when your offense goes 3 and out over and over again.

 

There's certainly plenty of blame to go around for a loss like this, and the D does not get off the hook for playing like crap just because Tyrod and the offense put them in a bad spot. But the OP's point is correct. It's fatiguing and also demoralizing for a defense to have to go in over and over again after 3 and outs.

 

When I played in college, we had a great defense and a mediocre (at best) offense. It definitely wears on you physically and mentally when the offense can't move the ball. You don't even need them to score all the time, but you do need some drives to get a break and not have your backs against the wall with field position every time you go out there.

[Mr. WEO]

15 minutes ago, DC Greg said:

 

The number of days you had to rest prior to a game doesn't really change the fatigue that happens in game from having to go back in series after series when your offense goes 3 and out over and over again.

 

There's certainly plenty of blame to go around for a loss like this, and the D does not get off the hook for playing like crap just because Tyrod and the offense put them in a bad spot. But the OP's point is correct. It's fatiguing and also demoralizing for a defense to have to go in over and over again after 3 and outs.

 

When I played in college, we had a great defense and a mediocre (at best) offense. It definitely wears on you physically and mentally when the offense can't move the ball. You don't even need them to score all the time, but you do need some drives to get a break and not have your backs against the wall with field position every time you go out there.

 

 

See above, the first 4 NO drives were at least 9 plays.  The Bills D must have been "demoralized" immediately.

 

They forced zero punts in 10 drives.  That's never the Offense's fault.

[TC in St. Louis]

The offense, led by Tyrod Taylor, accumulated 5 first downs in nearly 4 quarters of football.  That is an epic failure....this wasn't the steel curtain or the 85 Bears.  Tyrod is not capable of being a drop back pocket passer.  He doesn't have the acuity to remember where the receivers are, nor the ability to put it there.  Granted, he was under pressure, but come on.  He is not going to get us anywhere.  I think if the Bills have a chance, they need to put Peterman in.  Otherwise, get ready for another 5-11, 6-10 season.  

 

[Wayne Arnold]

31 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Why don't they just force a three and out so they can go rest a little? 

 

Because they're facing Drew Brees and one of the best offenses in the NFL and they aren't that talented.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Because they're facing Drew Brees and one of the best offenses in the NFL and they aren't that talented.

Brees handed off the ball 24 times in  row at one point in the second half. 

 

 

[BillsFan130]

41 minutes ago, DC Greg said:

 

The number of days you had to rest prior to a game doesn't really change the fatigue that happens in game from having to go back in series after series when your offense goes 3 and out over and over again.

 

There's certainly plenty of blame to go around for a loss like this, and the D does not get off the hook for playing like crap just because Tyrod and the offense put them in a bad spot. But the OP's point is correct. It's fatiguing and also demoralizing for a defense to have to go in over and over again after 3 and outs.

 

When I played in college, we had a great defense and a mediocre (at best) offense. It definitely wears on you physically and mentally when the offense can't move the ball. You don't even need them to score all the time, but you do need some drives to get a break and not have your backs against the wall with field position every time you go out there.

I disagree, respectfully.

 

From the first drive of the game the Saints owned the Bills.

 

75 yards in 10 plays.

 

You're telling me that after 10 days off, they were fatigued on that first drive?

 

Nothing changed all game. Saints Ran it down their throats from their opening possession.

[Wayne Arnold]

37 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Brees handed off the ball 24 times in  row at one point in the second half. 

 

So that means the defense doesn't have to account for him? They can just load 8-9 men in the box and dare him to pass?

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, SaviorPeterman said:

Here are the official numbers on TOP courtesy of Mike Rodak:

 

 

Why is this important?

It's tangible evidence proving that the defense is struggling because Taylor has not been able to move this offense consistently. Too many 3 and outs and short possessions. And I've maintained for some time that eventually this defense will simply quit when they know they don't have a legit QB that can move the ball and score points.

 

Not sure what other metrics McD and his staff need to see that it's simply not working with Taylor.

Sure it makes them more tires as the game goes on but they start the games bad too. That has nothing to do with being tired. 

[BillsFan130]

24 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

So that means the defense doesn't have to account for him? They can just load 8-9 men in the box and dare him to pass?

In the 2nd half they knew the Saints were running and they still couldn't stop it. Even with 8 in the box

[row_33]

yes, getting drug up and down the field all day will make a D tired

 

[SaviorPeterman]

1 hour ago, TC in St. Louis said:

The offense, led by Tyrod Taylor, accumulated 5 first downs in nearly 4 quarters of football.  That is an epic failure....this wasn't the steel curtain or the 85 Bears.  Tyrod is not capable of being a drop back pocket passer.  He doesn't have the acuity to remember where the receivers are, nor the ability to put it there.  Granted, he was under pressure, but come on.  He is not going to get us anywhere.  I think if the Bills have a chance, they need to put Peterman in.  Otherwise, get ready for another 5-11, 6-10 season.  

 

 

This is the point people are missing.

 

If Taylor was able to pass the ball like an NFL QB and the offense as a whole executed a semblance of a sustained drive the Saints don't have the ball as long as they do and probably don't score as many points even though they were winning this game regardless.

 

Jesus Christ this QB that some people are still defending pass for 58 yards yesterday and led the team to a whopping 3 points (take away the long McCoy run early and Taylor doesn't even get the field goal). He is a deer in head lights out there and McD knows it despite his public comments to the fans and media.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Sure it makes them more tires as the game goes on but they start the games bad too. That has nothing to do with being tired. 

 

This isn't rocket science Scott, when your defense is on the field more than your offense it certainly does mean they will get tired especially when the offense is constantly going 3 and out or having 2 - 3 minute possessions and giving the ball right back to the other team which means the defense is right back out there.

[Jauronimo]

Apparently they were worn down and demoralized from the opening kick off. 

[Wayne Arnold]

4 minutes ago, billsfan11 said:

In the 2nd half they knew the Saints were running and they still couldn't stop it. Even with 8 in the box

 

They were defeated by then. Their pride splattered all over the field.

[RoyBatty is alive]

2 hours ago, Coach55 said:

Totally agree.  I would almost make the argument that the defense's inability to get New Orleans off the field kept Taylor and the offense cold and thus led to the poor performance.  Below are the drive summaries.  You can't win when you can't stop them... ever. 

 

Drive 1 - 10 plays, 75 yds - TD

Drive 2 - 9 plays, 46 yds - Ended in Fumble at the Bills 9 (had it not, more points)

Drive 3 - 9 plays, 48 yds - TD

Drive 4 - 9 plays, 75 yds - FG

Drive 5 (I am skipping the kneel down for the half) - 9 plays, 75 yds - TD

Drive 6 - 1 play, 3 yds - TD

Drive 7 - 10 plays, 94 yds - TD

Drive 8 - 14 plays, 52 yds - FG

Drive 9 - 2 plays, 44 yds - TD

Drive 10 - victory formation...

 

That is amazing, I didn't realize it was that bad.

 

Wonder how this ranks in terms of all time bad defensive performances buy the Bills, I gotta believe this could crack to the top worst.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

28 minutes ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

This is the point people are missing.

 

If Taylor was able to pass the ball like an NFL QB and the offense as a whole executed a semblance of a sustained drive the Saints don't have the ball as long as they do and probably don't score as many points even though they were winning this game regardless.

 

Jesus Christ this QB that some people are still defending pass for 58 yards yesterday and led the team to a whopping 3 points (take away the long McCoy run early and Taylor doesn't even get the field goal). He is a deer in head lights out there and McD knows it despite his public comments to the fans and media.

 

 

 

This isn't rocket science Scott, when your defense is on the field more than your offense it certainly does mean they will get tired especially when the offense is constantly going 3 and out or having 2 - 3 minute possessions and giving the ball right back to the other team which means the defense is right back out there.

 

Hey bro - the defense you're defending has given up 500 yards rushing in the last 2 weeks.  They committed terrible penalties... missed like 40 tackles in two weeks... forced 0 punts!  And you want to blame time of possession?  

 

If the formula to stop him was so easy - we'd be 0-9, not 5-4.  

[mjt328]

3 hours ago, SaviorPeterman said:

Here are the official numbers on TOP courtesy of Mike Rodak:

 

 

Why is this important?

It's tangible evidence proving that the defense is struggling because Taylor has not been able to move this offense consistently. Too many 3 and outs and short possessions. And I've maintained for some time that eventually this defense will simply quit when they know they don't have a legit QB that can move the ball and score points.

 

Not sure what other metrics McD and his staff need to see that it's simply not working with Taylor.

 

Trying to work the facts to fit an agenda.

 

Yes, Tyrod Taylor was pathetic yesterday.  There was no excuse for his play.  Even when the Bills were trailing by multiple touchdowns, he was still throwing short of the markers on 3rd Down.  I'm not personally a believer in benching him for Nathan Peterman, but after performances like yesterday, I may be getting there. 

 

With that said, the defense was equally horrific yesterday.  It had nothing to do with the offense struggling.  The Saints moved the ball every time they had it, from the opening snap on.  If the defense is spent in the 4th quarter, it may be an excuse.  But our defense had already let up 40+ points and almost 300 yards rushing by that point.  Our D-Line was getting put on their @$$ on the first drive, and it never stopped.  So quit with the bull excuse.

 

Let's just cut the crap.  If the O-Line has a bad game, just admit it.  Don't try to come up with a reason why it should be blamed on the Quarterback.  And vice-versa.  If Tyrod plays like he did yesterday, don't make excuses.  Just admit he sucked.  Pretty much everyone on the team has been a flaming pile of turds the last 2 weeks.  If everyone could just open their eyes, watch the game, and stop trying to fit everything to make their opinion "right" -- this board would much more intelligent to read.

 

 

 

 

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

They were defeated by then. Their pride splattered all over the field.

Blame the offence all you want and rightfully so, but the defence in my books gets 0 pass. It was a disgraceful performance all around

[rant_and_go_returns]

3 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

Not buying it to be honest.

 

10 days rest they had before this saints game. They just got owned plain and simple in my opinion

 

 

 

You've never played a football game, have you?

[BillsFan130]

6 minutes ago, rant_and_go_returns said:

You've never played a football game, have you?

Yep I have. Stopped after high school though.

 

Also have done crossfit workout races that are 5x more intense than any football game.

 

And 10 days after those workout races where I have literally collapsed and couldn't walk for days, I feel 100 percent fine and my workouts/sports don't suffer at all.

 

These are professional athletes who get all the necessary treatment/coaching during those 10 days off. There is no excuse if you are still sore 10 days after a game

 

 

 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, SaviorPeterman said:

 

This is the point people are missing.

 

If Taylor was able to pass the ball like an NFL QB and the offense as a whole executed a semblance of a sustained drive the Saints don't have the ball as long as they do and probably don't score as many points even though they were winning this game regardless.

 

Jesus Christ this QB that some people are still defending pass for 58 yards yesterday and led the team to a whopping 3 points (take away the long McCoy run early and Taylor doesn't even get the field goal). He is a deer in head lights out there and McD knows it despite his public comments to the fans and media.

 

 

 

This isn't rocket science Scott, when your defense is on the field more than your offense it certainly does mean they will get tired especially when the offense is constantly going 3 and out or having 2 - 3 minute possessions and giving the ball right back to the other team which means the defense is right back out there.

Learn to read. I said it probably effects them as the game goes on. That's no excuse for the beginnings of the game. The defense is partially at fault when they can't get their own asses off the field. 

[Buftex]

Yeah, the defense had 10 days to rest, and they got blown off the ball from the opening drive of the game, yesterday.  I agree, the offense is suspect, but as Barber said over and over again (and over and over) yesterday, the Bills defense was so turnover reliant the first 5 games of the season, it likely blew their reputation up, defensively.  If they don't get turnovers, they aren't going to win, more often than not.  I know it is not the case, but it really did seem like they just gave up yesterday, pretty early in the game...that 94 yard rushing drive by the Saints was just pathetic.  Like there was no real fight in them.  I don't want say McDermott is "losing the lockerroom" or anything like that, but it is very possible they are starting to collectively realize that they aren't really all that talented, as many thought going into the season.

 

Hopefully, a trip to the west coast will get them re-focused, but I am starting to get the feeling that 2017 is slipping away....

[Watkins101]

3 hours ago, Coach55 said:

Totally agree.  I would almost make the argument that the defense's inability to get New Orleans off the field kept Taylor and the offense cold and thus led to the poor performance.  Below are the drive summaries.  You can't win when you can't stop them... ever. 

 

Drive 1 - 10 plays, 75 yds - TD

Drive 2 - 9 plays, 46 yds - Ended in Fumble at the Bills 9 (had it not, more points)

Drive 3 - 9 plays, 48 yds - TD

Drive 4 - 9 plays, 75 yds - FG

Drive 5 (I am skipping the kneel down for the half) - 9 plays, 75 yds - TD

Drive 6 - 1 play, 3 yds - TD

Drive 7 - 10 plays, 94 yds - TD

Drive 8 - 14 plays, 52 yds - FG

Drive 9 - 2 plays, 44 yds - TD

Drive 10 - victory formation...

 

A no punt game... for the saints.

[Jauronimo]

16 minutes ago, Buftex said:

Yeah, the defense had 10 days to rest, and they got blown off the ball from the opening drive of the game, yesterday.  I agree, the offense is suspect, but as Barber said over and over again (and over and over) yesterday, the Bills defense was so turnover reliant the first 5 games of the season, it likely blew their reputation up, defensively.  If they don't get turnovers, they aren't going to win, more often than not.  I know it is not the case, but it really did seem like they just gave up yesterday, pretty early in the game...that 94 yard rushing drive by the Saints was just pathetic.  Like there was no real fight in them.  I don't want say McDermott is "losing the lockerroom" or anything like that, but it is very possible they are starting to collectively realize that they aren't really all that talented, as many thought going into the season.

 

Hopefully, a trip to the west coast will get them re-focused, but I am starting to get the feeling that 2017 is slipping away....

Its easier to force turnovers when you can stop the run.  Weeks 1 through 7, Bills D was giving up an average of 80 yards rushing per game.  Median was 70 yards.  The last two weeks 200 and 300 yards on the ground.  Forcing the opponent to pass is a much better way to get turnovers than allowing them to rush at will.

[Best Player Available]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Why don't they just force a three and out so they can go rest a little? 

Not sure if that is part of the process.

[BillsFan130]

26 minutes ago, Buftex said:

Yeah, the defense had 10 days to rest, and they got blown off the ball from the opening drive of the game, yesterday.  I agree, the offense is suspect, but as Barber said over and over again (and over and over) yesterday, the Bills defense was so turnover reliant the first 5 games of the season, it likely blew their reputation up, defensively.  If they don't get turnovers, they aren't going to win, more often than not.  I know it is not the case, but it really did seem like they just gave up yesterday, pretty early in the game...that 94 yard rushing drive by the Saints was just pathetic.  Like there was no real fight in them.  I don't want say McDermott is "losing the lockerroom" or anything like that, but it is very possible they are starting to collectively realize that they aren't really all that talented, as many thought going into the season.

 

Hopefully, a trip to the west coast will get them re-focused, but I am starting to get the feeling that 2017 is slipping away....

Good post, I agree with everything

[reddogblitz]

D could spend a lot more time off the field if they could, you know, make a stop and get off the field.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, SaviorPeterman said:

Here are the official numbers on TOP courtesy of Mike Rodak:

Why is this important?

It's tangible evidence proving that the defense is struggling because Taylor has not been able to move this offense consistently. Too many 3 and outs and short possessions. And I've maintained for some time that eventually this defense will simply quit when they know they don't have a legit QB that can move the ball and score points.

Not sure what other metrics McD and his staff need to see that it's simply not working with Taylor.

 

You do realize that the D has it within their power to control the TOP by stopping the opposition, and getting off the field ,so the lopsided TOP can be used to support the exact opposite argument.  If  the D were stopping the opponent's offense 3-and-out or even 6-and-out, but continued 3 and outs by our O caused our D to wear down and allow the opponent to march down the field, I would buy this.

But we all know that's not what happened
Saints first possession: 4:40, 9 plays, TD

Saints second possession: 4:45, 9 plays, turnover

Saints third possession: 4:47, 8 plays, TD

What I see is that our D simply could not stop the Saints and get off the field at all.  Every time the Saints got the ball, starting at their first possession, unless there was a turnover, they scored.  This was true of the Jets last week as well.

I'm not trying to say the O is blameless - indeed, it seems the only thing that would have helped would be to grind out yards and use clock and keep the score down by keeping the Saints O seated on the side. 

I'm saying there is plenty of blame to go around and both sides of the ball "stunk up the joint"

37 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Its easier to force turnovers when you can stop the run.  Weeks 1 through 7, Bills D was giving up an average of 80 yards rushing per game.  Median was 70 yards.  The last two weeks 200 and 300 yards on the ground.  Forcing the opponent to pass is a much better way to get turnovers than allowing them to rush at will.

 

When he's right, he's right.  And gee, what changed before the last 2 games?

 

5 hours ago, billsfan11 said:

Not buying it to be honest.

10 days rest they had before this saints game. They just got owned plain and simple in my opinion

 

4 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Why don't they just force a three and out so they can go rest a little? 

 

Yes, exactly.  The O goes 3-and-out?  Keep handing the ball back to them and giving them another shot.  Do that, but the O keeps laying an egg and the D starts wearing down in the second half, and I'll buy this argument.  Until then, No Sale.




 

[Bills Fan of St Augustine]

3 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

So that means the defense doesn't have to account for him? They can just load 8-9 men in the box and dare him to pass?

I think that is what they did and the Bills still couldn't stop the run. TT could have been the QB and against our 8 man fronts, the Saints ran with impunity. This was the n=big excuse for our line not being able to run against 8 in the box. 24 straight runs daring us to stop the run and we couldn't. Very sad. 

Edited November 13, 2017 by Bills Fan of Maryland

[Pirate Angel]

sure TOP factors into it but so doesnt, lack of depth and talent

[Da webster guy]

We should be much better against the run, even without Marcel in there.   Kyle, Shaq, Washington, Worthy, these guys can play solid run defense normally.    Without Hughes we have zero pass rush--heck even with him we haven't been doing much to harass other qb's.

 

The Saints Oline looked like Hall of Famers out there.   Even with a great offense we still lose that game.     Here's my blame placing awards:

 

20% no Dareus.   He may be a slug off the field but he doesn't get pushed around like that.

30% offensive time of possession killed us.

20% no Hughes, our best player in the front 7, out with shin injury.

30% Saints Oline.   Really an outstanding job by their big boys.   They can beat anyone if they play like that.   I was less impressed with Kamara and more impressed with the holes they were making for he and Ingram.

[Sweats]

A team can't expect to win with repeated 3 and outs all afternoon.............our D can only carry this team so far and the past 2 weeks we've seen the breaking point.

[Mat68]

5 hours ago, Coach55 said:

Totally agree.  I would almost make the argument that the defense's inability to get New Orleans off the field kept Taylor and the offense cold and thus led to the poor performance.  Below are the drive summaries.  You can't win when you can't stop them... ever. 

 

Drive 1 - 10 plays, 75 yds - TD

Drive 2 - 9 plays, 46 yds - Ended in Fumble at the Bills 9 (had it not, more points)

Drive 3 - 9 plays, 48 yds - TD

Drive 4 - 9 plays, 75 yds - FG

Drive 5 (I am skipping the kneel down for the half) - 9 plays, 75 yds - TD

Drive 6 - 1 play, 3 yds - TD

Drive 7 - 10 plays, 94 yds - TD

Drive 8 - 14 plays, 52 yds - FG

Drive 9 - 2 plays, 44 yds - TD

Drive 10 - victory formation...

 

Correct but now look what the offense did from the fumble on.  Its a complete snowball effect.  The Saints obviuosly had a good idea of how to attack the defense.  Everything they called worked.  Without any offensive help to stop the bleeding the defense gassed in the second half. Which made a bad situation that much worst.