RD 5, Pick 171: Nathan Peterman (QB) - Pitt

[BullBuchanan]

There hasn't been a weak armed QB to win anything since Joe Montana.

Tom Brady won a couple of Super Bowls with a Noodle and already had his gold jacket ordered before he worked on his arm strength.While some guys are born with a stronger arm than others, it's something everyone can improve.

[Kelly the Dog]

If anything causes Peterman to fail it will probably be his arm strength. I'm just saying I think it's easily the most correctable weakness out of them all. Teams get hypnotized by a guy Mahomes because he has a cannon and they convince themselves his mechanics can be rebuilt from scratch. Spending a 1st rounder (2 1st rounders actually)?on that is IMO tremendously dumber than spending a 5th round pick on someone whose biggest knock is something that can be fixed with reps in the gym.

There are a few examples, not many, of players whose arm strength noticeably increased over the years. Brady had decent arm strength (low end but just good enough) when he started. Over the years he got significantly stronger. Now he can gun it anywhere. Not a lot of examples of that.

Tom Brady won a couple of Super Bowls with a Noodle and already had his gold jacket ordered before he worked on his arm strength.While some guys are born with a stronger arm than others, it's something everyone can improve.

See above. He's one of very few. Not sure I can think of another. He went from barely enough to pretty strong. If Peterman is as strong as Brady I guess he has a chance. I haven't even seen that yet. Edited April 30, 2017 by Kelly the Dog

[Coach Tuesday]

He was a perfect example in one way, although I thought his arm was just strong enough. He couldn't handle pressure either. But the reason he is a great example was he would look great in camp and preseason when the game is played at a slower speed. It was an amazing thing you don't often see but Edwards wowed Chan Gailey in camp and preseason being so accurate and completing passes when the real bullets weren't flying. Then he played two regular season games, Chan realized he couldn't do it at that speed, and didn't bench him he just cut him. Because he knew Edwards would never be able to do it. Very similar with the weak arm.

 

Yep.

Edwards' issues had nothing to do with his arm. His arm was fine.

[Wayne Cubed]

There are a few examples, not many, of players whose arm strength noticeably increased over the years. Brady had decent arm strength (low end but just good enough) when he started. Over the years he got significantly stronger. Now he can gun it anywhere. Not a lot of examples of that.

See above. He's one of very few. Not sure I can think of another. He went from barely enough to pretty strong. If Peterman is as strong as Brady I guess he has a chance. I haven't even seen that yet.

And it's an exception not the rule, so the chance of it happening are slim.

 

Tom felt slighted that he was drafted where he was and when opportunity came knocking he was going to be ready. Will Peterman be the same? I wouldn't bet on it.

[HappyDays]

There are a few examples, not many, of players whose arm strength noticeably increased over the years. Brady had decent arm strength (low end but just good enough) when he started. Over the years he got significantly stronger. Now he can gun it anywhere. Not a lot of examples of that.

The old scouting reports I've seen on Brady are that his arm strength was way too weak to make it in the NFL. I think you're reaching here if you think Brady's arm strength was good enough coming out of college. Again - not trying to say Peterman will definitely correct his issues but I sure feel better about that happening than I would with some of the issues these other QBs have.

[Wayne Cubed]

Edwards' issues had nothing to do with his arm. His arm was fine.

Did you miss the part where he said it was fine. We were talking about succeeding as a QB with no vertical attack.

[Success]

Both Brady and Eli came into the league with fairly weak arms. That's a lot of superbowls.

 

Not that it isn't an important trait, but definitely overrated.

[Kelly the Dog]

Edwards' issues had nothing to do with his arm. His arm was fine.

Yeah I said I thought his arm was good enough. But the scenario is the same. Guys with weak arms will look great in camp and preseason because the game is not played at top speed. The same way Edwards would. And it is only when that microsecond difference can be seen that you know he can't play and win at this level.

[BullBuchanan]

Mhmm.

 

That's Brady's scouting report, not Peterman's. I think it was supposed to be a comparison? They do have pretty similar scouting reports.

I saw a rumor on here that Yates will retire from football after training camp and immediately be hired as a QB coach in Buffalo, if I'm remembering correctly. He has connections to Dennison and ran his offense for several years, so it could be true.

 

Strengths: Good height to see the field. Very poised and composed. Smart and alert. Can read coverages. Good accuracy and touch. Produces in big spots and in big games. Has some Brian Griese in him and is a gamer. Generally plays within himself. Team leader.

Weaknesses: Can get pushed down more easily than you'd like. Lacks mobility and ability to avoid the rush. Lacks a really strong arm. Can't drive the ball down the field and does not throw a really tight spiral. System-type player who can get exposed if he must ad-lib and do things on his own.

Summary: Is not what you're looking for in terms of physical stature, strength, arm strength and mobility, but he has the intangibles and production and showed great Griese-like improvement as a senior. Could make it in the right system but will not be for everyone.

[Kelly the Dog]

The old scouting reports I've seen on Brady are that his arm strength was way too weak to make it in the NFL. I think you're reaching here if you think Brady's arm strength was good enough coming out of college. Again - not trying to say Peterman will definitely correct his issues but I sure feel better about that happening than I would with some of the issues these other QBs have.

Possible. I was going on what I was watching early on and watching now, not scouting reports. Brady clearly has a stronger arm now. And surely his first couple years he was mostly only throwing short passes. But I don't recall thinking he cannot get the ball downfield when he has to.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

You're moving the goal posts Kelly...

he keeps getting answers that disprove his comment but then has to on the fly come up with qualifiers to avoid defeat. Drew Brees doesn't have a rocket arm either but if I say him, wearing gold helmets wouldnt have been allowed.

[Kelly the Dog]

he keeps getting answers that disprove his comment but then has to on the fly come up with qualifiers to avoid defeat. Drew Brees doesn't have a rocket arm either but if I say him, wearing gold helmets wouldnt have been allowed.

I said weak arm. Now you guys are saying "doesn't have a rocket." Lol. I have not changed my stance at all. Weak arm is weak arm. The examples given, Gannon and Johnson did not have weak arms. At all. Brady maybe. But you're talking about the arguably best QB ever.

[Coach Tuesday]

I said weak arm. Now you guys are saying "doesn't have a rocket." Lol. I have not changed my stance at all. Weak arm is weak arm. The examples given, Gannon and Johnson did not have weak arms. At all. Brady maybe. But you're talking about the arguably best QB ever.

Brad Johnson could barely throw the 20-yard out and couldn't do it in the wind.

[starrymessenger]

I think its prolly a little early to be closing the book on Peterman's arm strength. In the off-season before his last year with the Rams Brees claimed to have increased his arm strength by 60-70%% (maybe he was exaggerating a little lol) through core strength workouts. And some QBs with good arm's when they came into the league only got better as they matured as physical specimens and players - AR, TB. Peterman is in his early 20's. Even without the benefit of a NFL strength and conditioning programme (the benefit of which of course he will have) his strength should continue to increase till his late 20s. I don't think we should conclude that his arm strength cannot improve, especially if all we are asking him to do is throw with a little more zip for what 20 or at most 25 yards. The deep out relies as much on the receiver running a good pattern and getting the DB to open his hips too early and the QB being able to throw the ball with a quick release, accurately and with anticipation (all of which it sounds like Peterman can do) than arm strength pure and simple. If the only thing standing between Peterman and a starting job is nailing the deep out, I don't think I would bet against him.

I wish all these kids the best success but it sure would be an eye opener if Peterman found more success than the guy the Chiefs traded down for.

[The Frankish Reich]

Yeah I said I thought his arm was good enough. But the scenario is the same. Guys with weak arms will look great in camp and preseason because the game is not played at top speed. The same way Edwards would. And it is only when that microsecond difference can be seen that you know he can't play and win at this level.

Good point. I always go way back to when the Cowboys drafted both Aikman and Steve Walsh (Miami Hurricanes). Walsh was more "polished" in the sense of reading defenses, making quick decisions, etc. But Aikman was obviously the far superior physical specimen. Walsh looked better than Aikman early on. In fact, there was a solid subset of Cowboys fans who were clamoring for Walsh early on. But Walsh hit his ceiling very early, whereas Aikman obviously learned the mental parts of the game and became a HOFer.

[Kelly the Dog]

Good point. I always go way back to when the Cowboys drafted both Aikman and Steve Walsh (Miami Hurricanes). Walsh was more "polished" in the sense of reading defenses, making quick decisions, etc. But Aikman was obviously the far superior physical specimen. Walsh looked better than Aikman early on. In fact, there was a solid subset of Cowboys fans who were clamoring for Walsh early on. But Walsh hit his ceiling very early, whereas Aikman obviously learned the mental parts of the game and became a HOFer.

 

Steve Walsh is the perfect example. He had no chance.

[Figster]

 

Peyton in his final year...

Good answer row

 

There are a few examples, not many, of players whose arm strength noticeably increased over the years. Brady had decent arm strength (low end but just good enough) when he started. Over the years he got significantly stronger. Now he can gun it anywhere. Not a lot of examples of that.

See above. He's one of very few. Not sure I can think of another. He went from barely enough to pretty strong. If Peterman is as strong as Brady I guess he has a chance. I haven't even seen that yet.

I was waiting to see if anybody makes this comparison because If I remember correctly Bradys arm strength was in question despite showing excellent anticipation and accuracy.

[Kelly the Dog]

Brad Johnson could barely throw the 20-yard out and couldn't do it in the wind.

Some of those show he had plenty of arm.

[The Frankish Reich]

I said weak arm. Now you guys are saying "doesn't have a rocket." Lol. I have not changed my stance at all. Weak arm is weak arm. The examples given, Gannon and Johnson did not have weak arms. At all. Brady maybe. But you're talking about the arguably best QB ever.

Pennington (pre-shoulder) and Cousins are probably good examples. Maybe Bridgewater? If some folks out there have seen all of Peterman's games, I'll defer to you. But I have to assume that if Peterman had a truly "weak" - as opposed to "a bit below average for college QBs who project to be an NFL starter" - I can't imagine he would've been drafted at all, much less in the 5th round.

Steve Walsh is the perfect example. He had no chance.

Interesting where my memory is wrong - he actually DID start for the Cowboys in their first 5 games in his rookie year. And then went to the playoffs as the Bears QB in 1994, throwing for 299 yards. But overall, we're right - he was a classic NFL backup guy, and his career was effectively over by the time he hit 30.

[Kelly the Dog]

Pennington (pre-shoulder) and Cousins are probably good examples. Maybe Bridgewater? If some folks out there have seen all of Peterman's games, I'll defer to you. But I have to assume that if Peterman had a truly "weak" - as opposed to "a bit below average for college QBs who project to be an NFL starter" - I can't imagine he would've been drafted at all, much less in the 5th round.

Interesting where my memory is wrong - he actually DID start for the Cowboys in their first 5 games in his rookie year. And then went to the playoffs as the Bears QB in 1994, throwing for 299 yards. But overall, we're right - he was a classic NFL backup guy, and his career was effectively over by the time he hit 30.

Yeah, when I say no chance I mean no chance of being a top level NFL starter for years let alone franchise guy. Not that he has no chance winning a job or winning a few games.

 

I will admit, I didn't see a lot of Peterman. I have watched a lot of clips and didn't see what I think is requisite arm strength. If he has Kirk Cousins arm strength his ceiling is Kirk Cousins, which I think is slightly less than franchise guy. Some fans are fine with a Kirk Cousins, and I understand that. I am not. I don't think he can win it all. There are all just opinions.

 

I said it in this thread above that the reason IMO that Peterman actually went lower in the draft than expected, even though he has two dozen things going for him in his favor, is because scouts and GMs knew he could never do it. Mayock, my favorite of the pundits, said he has a good chance to be a long time number two. That's a valuable commodity in the NFL, backup QB. But that's not the same as a guy who can be your man. If he's Frank Reich, great. But we want a Jim Kelly.

[Coach Tuesday]

Some of those show he had plenty of arm.

Pretty sure you'll come to find that Peterman can make every one of those throws.

 

But anyhow this is a silly argument. There is a difference between functional arm strength and actual arm strength. The former is much more important and depends primarily on the lower body mechanics. Peterman has enough arm to play in the NFL now, and with better programming he could improve in that area.

[Kelly the Dog]

Pretty sure you'll come to find that Peterman can make every one of those throws.

But anyhow this is a silly argument. There is a difference between functional arm strength and actual arm strength. The former is much more important and depends primarily on the lower body mechanics. Peterman has enough arm to play in the NFL now, and with better programming he could improve in that area.

Yep. If Peterman can make all those throws then I think he can be a good starter. I fear he can't because guy's like Mayock say he's a career backup, and with all his other very good qualities, of which there are many, there seems to be no reason he lasts to the fifth. Guys like that get overdrafted not underdrafted. It was the same thing IMO with Rob Johnson. He had ALL of the tools that scouts love. Big arm, big stats, big school, could run, legendary high school coach as dad, pro offense. Except for some reason the scouts knew he wasn't a good QB, and he fell in the draft to the fourth round. Those guys always move up not down.

[Wayne Cubed]

Yeah, when I say no chance I mean no chance of being a top level NFL starter for years let alone franchise guy. Not that he has no chance winning a job or winning a few games.

 

I will admit, I didn't see a lot of Peterman. I have watched a lot of clips and didn't see what I think is requisite arm strength. If he has Kirk Cousins arm strength his ceiling is Kirk Cousins, which I think is slightly less than franchise guy. Some fans are fine with a Kirk Cousins, and I understand that. I am not. I don't think he can win it all. There are all just opinions.

 

I said it in this thread above that the reason IMO that Peterman actually went lower in the draft than expected, even though he has two dozen things going for him in his favor, is because scouts and GMs knew he could never do it. Mayock, my favorite of the pundits, said he has a good chance to be a long time number two. That's a valuable commodity in the NFL, backup QB. But that's not the same as a guy who can be your man. If he's Frank Reich, great. But we want a Jim Kelly.

And actually, I'm not sure why this gets said, but Kirks Cousins arm strength was never a knock against him. Scouts and draft pundits said he had plenty, just not a canon. That's different than saying a QB has a weak arm.

 

So for me, Kirk Cousins is not an example.

[Kelly the Dog]

And actually, I'm not sure why this gets said, but Kirks Cousins arm strength was never a knock against him. Scouts and draft pundits said he had plenty, just not a canon. That's different than saying a QB has a weak arm.

So for me, Kirk Cousins is not an example.

Funny you say that but for me, Cousins just barely has enough. The reason I don't think he can be elite is because he can't get the ball there quick or hard enough on some throws. I understand that it's believed he has enough. But that's kind of my point with Peterman. If you don't even have Kirk Cousins strength, which is thought to be strong enough, you can't succeed at a top level. That's my worry. And that's why he's thought of as a career backup.

[YoloinOhio]

That's Brady's scouting report, not Peterman's. I think it was supposed to be a comparison? They do have pretty similar scouting reports.

 

I saw a rumor on here that Yates will retire from football after training camp and immediately be hired as a QB coach in Buffalo, if I'm remembering correctly. He has connections to Dennison and ran his offense for several years, so it could be true.

interesting on Yates if true. Our QB coach is a longtime NFL WR coach and could see Yates being his assistant.

[Wayne Cubed]

Funny you say that but for me, Cousins just barely has enough. The reason I don't think he can be elite is because he can't get the ball there quick or hard enough on some throws. I understand that it's believed he has enough. But that's kind of my point with Peterman. If you don't even have Kirk Cousins strength, which is thought to be strong enough, you can't succeed at a top level. That's my worry. And that's why he's thought of as a career backup.

That's kind of what I mean. Kirk Cousins, according to scouts and draft pundits, has enough arm strength.

 

Nate Peterman, according to scouts and draft experts, does not have a strong arm.

 

I just don't think you can compare the two and say, "Well hey look Kirk Cousins is doing ok".

Edited April 30, 2017 by Wayne Cubed

[starrymessenger]

 

Did not follow Peterman but wonder whether or how much of his tape (and the reactions to it) can be explained by the short game I gather was favoured by 'Cuse. Or maybe that was a reflection of perceived QB limitations?

[HappyDays]

interesting on Yates if true. Our QB coach is a longtime NFL WR coach and could see Yates being his assistant.

Normally I wouldn't trust rumors but rumors on here have a tendency to come true.

[BuffAlone]

I knew this thread would pass the 1st round thread!

[SoFFacet]

I knew this thread would pass the 1st round thread!

 

QB hysteria out of control. For a healthy organization and un-traumatized fanbase, this would not be a significant pick. He's a developmental QB. If he pans out, great. If not, whatever. Any 5th rounder is a long-shot to make a difference.

[mead107]

Brady scouting report. Not a strong arm skinny

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/anyone-got-tom-bradys-pre-draft-scouting-report.77495994/

[The Frankish Reich]

I think Kevin Hogan last year was in the same place as Peterman. And he had some moments last year, such that I haven't written him off yet as a potential starter.

[Rochesterfan]

1. Pennington is the only one to even be good since Montana. 2. Pennington only went so far and never really won anything. He wasn't a top ten QB.

 

 

It depends because there are a ton of people on the list without numbers and guys like Brady came out and his know was his weak arm and he has done fine. What we know is that in the last 10 years - those

QBs that we have numbers on and became successful were over 55. There are some successful QBs without numbers - so we do not know where exactly they fall.

 

There is also a huge number of successful QBs that we do not have data on, but some that we suspect were successful and did not have high velocity arms and you mentioned 2.

 

I will worry about this once we have a true cause and effect for velocity. I think it is one of many aspects that can make a QB successful, but I do not harbor at all the expectation that someone at 54 will not be successful strictly because of velocity.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Rochesterfan

[Bangarang]

Brady scouting report. Not a strong arm skinny

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/anyone-got-tom-bradys-pre-draft-scouting-report.77495994/

Most of the NFL passing game is short and intermediate stuff. Even the offense we're about to run with Dennison fits well with the things Peterman does well. I'm not worried about his arm. I'm glad we took a kid who is somewhat polished and has very good traits as opposed to someone who is tall with a big arm but has no idea how to play the position Edited April 30, 2017 by Bangarang

[Rochesterfan]

They both had more than adequate arms. Gannon had a pretty good one. Easily far better than what I have seen from Peterman, who seems to be in the Colt McCoy, Kellen Moore category.

 

 

Do you have their combine stats to prove that.

 

The statement from others is that QBs increase their Arm strength in the NFL. Did they start out around Peterman and get a bit stronger.

 

What was Brady's combine velocity - I can not find it, but his velocity was very bad early on in his career.

There are a few examples, not many, of players whose arm strength noticeably increased over the years. Brady had decent arm strength (low end but just good enough) when he started. Over the years he got significantly stronger. Now he can gun it anywhere. Not a lot of examples of that.

See above. He's one of very few. Not sure I can think of another. He went from barely enough to pretty strong. If Peterman is as strong as Brady I guess he has a chance. I haven't even seen that yet.

 

 

What are your numbers that prove that. Coming out of the combine his arm strength and velocity I do not believe was any better than Peterman at all.

[fansince88]

I like him as the sleeper of the draft. I see him being our starter.

This per Ryan Talbot:

Nathan Peterman could be the pick of the draft in a few years, and that's another reason why this class is rated so high. I know there are questions about a guy with average arm strength going to a spot like Buffalo, where cold and wind comes into play. But arm strength can improve in the NFL. Just look at Tom Brady and Drew Brees. With Taylor taking a pay cut to stay, I wouldn't be surprised if Peterman is the starter in a year or two.

Most of the NFL passing game is short and intermediate stuff. Even the offense we're about to run with Dennison fits well with the things Peterman does well. I'm not worried about his arm. I'm glad we took a kid who is somewhat polished and has very good traits as opposed to someone who is tall with a big arm but has no idea how to play the position

Like the guy we took last year? I feel like he fits the bold above.

Credit Mead for finding this one from 2005:

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/anyone-got-tom-bradys-pre-draft-scouting-report.77495994/

Edited April 30, 2017 by fansince88

[BillsFan17]

This is amazing. All this over a 5th round QB.

Edited April 30, 2017 by BillsFan17

[Saint Doug]

He hit a ton of wide open RBs/Slot WRs on basically RPOs where there were misreads by the defense.

 

You know this is a Buffalo Bills message board, right? It would be a Bills fans' wet dream to have their QB hit a ton of wide open slot WRs.

[jumbalaya]

Will Nathan Peterman = Frank Reich and Cardale Jones = Jim Kelly? Is that the thinking? TT just a one to two year stop gap?

 

At the end of preseason, if Peterman shows promise & Cardale comes along ``we have to cut someone as few keep three let alone 4 QBs who gets cut first? Yates? Tyrod?

 

Could be ugly.

[KellyToughII]

Fans better start getting behind this kid, he will be starting for us sooner than later