Alphadawg7 Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 (edited) I have been saying this for a long time now...why does this team have so much bad luck with keeping its talent healthy and on the field? I got flamed during the off season and preseason for bringing this up and one of the main arguments back against me was Sammy Watkins recovery and him liking our trainers. Yet here we are again...Sammy just like last year, came back too early and wasn't ready and now instead of being healthy his problem lingered and now is missing more time. McCoy last year too, Taylor, etc...our guys keep being put out there and cleared by our trainers before they are ready. When are they going to be held accountable for that when they really need to just sit the player to let it heal a week or two. Over and over again these mistakes happen, and our doctors and trainers also cleared Shaq and said he wouldn't need surgery and right out the gate it gets prove otherwise. How much evidence needs to continue to pile up that our GM and coaches are being handicapped by bad decisions, information or poor recovery efforts on our players by our medical staff and trainers? We are either the most unlucky team in history (which isn't off the table lol) or our medical and training staff just aren't doing a good job. People want to hold Rex and Whaley responsible for making decisions based on what the Medical staff and Trainers tell them...but when do they get to face the music? Its getting ridiculous around here, they can't keep anyone healthy...they can't get anyone healthy...they can't properly evaluate the medical risk of prospects. Im still looking around to see what exactly they have done well to have kept their jobs. 1. Players never come back healthy before expected. 2. Players rarely come back when expected and in full recovery. 3. Players frequently come back later than expected and often still not at 100%. 4. They frequently put our guys back out there before 100% and either see the injury become worse or see it linger on for long periods of time. 5. They were completely wrong in the advice they gave to Whaley about Shaq's shoulder. I mean none of the above has anything to do with coaching or our GM. It can't all be bad luck when the one constant through the years is this terrible medical staff and training staff. I don't care if the players like them, doesn't make them effective at their job. I can think of tons of terrible Head Coaches players loved, didn't make them good coaches. Its time some heads start roll in these departments IMO. Edited September 30, 2016 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills_fan_in_raleigh Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 since rusty jones left we have been a team of glass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted September 30, 2016 Share Posted September 30, 2016 since rusty jones left we have been a team of glass Except for 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flomoe Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Maybe "some" players are softer than players years ago?! Most are trying to play for a bigger and better contract. Why not take it easy and get through the first one?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Fans love to fire people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 It has to with new rules NFLPA insisted upon. Players are not able to practice enough before season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoho Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Yes. Let's hire San Diego's staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Yes. Let's hire San Diego's staff.ermagherd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) Fans love to fire people. Hmmmmm...so because I am a fan, that the erases the continuous mistakes our Trainers and Medical staff have made? Thanks for the input. Its hilarious how this board completely over exaggerates the most stupid things like Rex's joke on Edelman and tries to spin that as if we are somehow now under prepared for the game because of it. But when an entire department has been continuously inept you guys just ignore them because you don't know their names and they don't speak at a podium and they don't play on gameday. How this board just completely ignores the utter incompetence of our medical and training staff is beyond me. Not to mention the more stupid posts where they assign Whaley the blame for their mistakes. Like how Whaley gets crap for drafting Shaq yet they completely ignore the facts that both the medical staff and Whaley both confirmed that our medical staff said nothing was concerning about the shoulder and he wouldn't miss time. Whaley based his decision on their opinion, he's not a physician, they are and its their job to gvie accurate information for the GM to base his decisions on. Of course, we all know the story...they were wrong again, but Whaley gets the blame and the medical staff gets yet another complete pass on being wrong, inept, and a problem for this team. Its time to clean house in regards to the medical and training staff. This isn't an excuse to justify our record, this is about a department who has made too many mistakes and its negatively impacting this team. Edited October 1, 2016 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Hmmmmm...so because I am a fan, that the erases the continuous mistakes our Trainers and Medical staff have made? Thanks for the input. Its hilarious how this board completely over exaggerates the most stupid things like Rex's joke on Edelman and tires to spin that as if we are somehow now under prepared for the game because of it. But when an entire department has been continuously inept you guys just ignore them because you don't know their names and they don't speak at a podium or play on gameday. How this board just completely ignores the utter incompetence of our medical and training staff is beyond me. Not to mention the more stupid posts where they assign Whaley the blame for their mistakes. Like how Whaley gets crap for drafting Shaq yet they completely ignore the facts that both the medical staff and Whaley both confirmed that our medical staff said nothing was concerning about the shoulder and he wouldn't miss time. Whaley based his decision on their opinion...They were wrong again, but Whaley gets the blame and the medical staff gets yet another complete pass on being wrong, inept, and a problem for this team. Its time to clean house in regards to the medical and training staff. What did they do wrong regarding Sammy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRW Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Hmmmmm...so because I am a fan, that the erases the continuous mistakes our Trainers and Medical staff have made? Thanks for the input. Its hilarious how this board completely over exaggerates the most stupid things like Rex's joke on Edelman and tires to spin that as if we are somehow now under prepared for the game because of it. But when an entire department has been continuously inept you guys just ignore them because you don't know their names and they don't speak at a podium or play on gameday. How this board just completely ignores the utter incompetence of our medical and training staff is beyond me. Not to mention the more stupid posts where they assign Whaley the blame for their mistakes. Like how Whaley gets crap for drafting Shaq yet they completely ignore the facts that both the medical staff and Whaley both confirmed that our medical staff said nothing was concerning about the shoulder and he wouldn't miss time. Whaley based his decision on their opinion...They were wrong again, but Whaley gets the blame and the medical staff gets yet another complete pass on being wrong, inept, and a problem for this team. Its time to clean house in regards to the medical and training staff. Is Whaley completely powerless in this scenario? If he keeps getting bad information, isn't it his job to get better staff reporting to him? And if he doesn't, isn't he ultimately responsible for these failures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 What did they do wrong regarding Sammy? Is Sammy playing? Was he 100% for the season opener like they said he would be? Did they properly handle his injury last year where instead of just sitting him a week and getting past it they kept playing him until it got worse and had to miss multiple games after they also let him play hurt and at a lower level for several games? What did they do right with Sammy? Name one thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I have been saying this for a long time now...why does this team have so much bad luck with keeping its talent healthy and on the field? I got flamed during the off season and preseason for bringing this up and one of the main arguments back against me was Sammy Watkins recovery and him liking our trainers. Yet here we are again...Sammy just like last year, came back too early and wasn't ready and now instead of being healthy his problem lingered and now is missing more time. McCoy last year too, Taylor, etc...our guys keep being put out there and cleared by our trainers before they are ready. When are they going to be held accountable for that when they really need to just sit the player to let it heal a week or two. Over and over again these mistakes happen, and our doctors and trainers also cleared Shaq and said he wouldn't need surgery and right out the gate it gets prove otherwise. How much evidence needs to continue to pile up that our GM and coaches are being handicapped by bad decisions, information or poor recovery efforts on our players by our medical staff and trainers? We are either the most unlucky team in history (which isn't off the table lol) or our medical and training staff just aren't doing a good job. People want to hold Rex and Whaley responsible for making decisions based on what the Medical staff and Trainers tell them...but when do they get to face the music? Its getting ridiculous around here, they can't keep anyone healthy...they can't get anyone healthy...they can't properly evaluate the medical risk of prospects. Im still looking around to see what exactly they have done well to have kept their jobs. 1. Players never come back healthy before expected. 2. Players rarely come back when expected and in full recovery. 3. Players frequently come back later than expected and often still not at 100%. 4. They frequently put our guys back out there before 100% and either see the injury become worse or see it linger on for long periods of time. 5. They were completely wrong in the advice they gave to Whaley about Shaq's shoulder. I mean none of the above has anything to do with coaching or our GM. It can't all be bad luck when the one constant through the years is this terrible medical staff and training staff. I don't care if the players like them, doesn't make them effective at their job. I can think of tons of terrible Head Coaches players loved, didn't make them good coaches. Its time some heads start roll in these departments IMO. Kevin Everett probably agrees with every word of this. Dez Bryant, Kevin Durant, Julian Edelman, and Julio jones probably will, too, when they read it. Also, how were you privy to the medical advice given with respect to shaq Lawson prior to the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 Is Whaley completely powerless in this scenario? If he keeps getting bad information, isn't it his job to get better staff reporting to him? And if he doesn't, isn't he ultimately responsible for these failures? I dont disagree with that...thats why I am saying they need to make a change. I seriously doubt it happens in season...but it should at the end after they botched the Shaq diagnosis, failed to get Sammy ready despite more than enough time for his injury, and the many mistakes they did with McCoy, Taylor, Sammy, etc last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dulles Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Fans love to fire people. I was going to come up with some retort for all the other haters, but I think you've covered it here. Time to shut down the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 Kevin Everett probably agrees with every word of this. Dez Bryant, Kevin Durant, Julian Edelman, and Julio jones probably will, too, when they read it. Also, how were you privy to the medical advice given with respect to shaq Lawson prior to the draft? Because Rex, Whaley, and the medical staff all publicly stated during interviews after the draft that our medical staff cleared Shaq and said the shoulder would be fine and wouldn't need surgery. Im fine with taking Shaq even if we knew he would need surgery because it was a short time out and non career impacting. However, that doesn't change the fact they were wrong on their recommendation when other teams said he would need the surgery. Its the fact these things keep getting bumbled that I am tired of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I honestly would just like to know the whole story If the foot is structurally sound as they say......why is he being placed on IR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo_Stampede Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 (edited) Is Sammy playing? Was he 100% for the season opener like they said he would be? Did they properly handle his injury last year where instead of just sitting him a week and getting past it they kept playing him until it got worse and had to miss multiple games after they also let him play hurt and at a lower level for several games? What did they do right with Sammy? Name one thing. Huh? Players play hurt all the time. There is a difference between hurt and injured. At some point you look at the player. Sammy was well passed his recovery time. He never complained about any pain. He said he was ready. There was and still is nothing structurally wrong with his foot. I honestly would just like to know the whole story If the foot is structurally sound as they say......why is he being placed on IR? That is the part that doesn't make sense. I figured he was having another surgery, but no. Maybe Dr Andrews will find something wrong, typically you see the expect before going on IR. Edited October 1, 2016 by TheTruthHurts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I honestly would just like to know the whole story If the foot is structurally sound as they say......why is he being placed on IR? to be able to use his roster spot for Hunter and rest it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 to be able to use his roster spot for Hunter and rest it. If it really is as simple as that then so be it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 1, 2016 Author Share Posted October 1, 2016 If it really is as simple as that then so be it Unless they are not telling us something, that is what it seems to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Because Rex, Whaley, and the medical staff all publicly stated during interviews after the draft that our medical staff cleared Shaq and said the shoulder would be fine and wouldn't need surgery. Im fine with taking Shaq even if we knew he would need surgery because it was a short time out and non career impacting. However, that doesn't change the fact they were wrong on their recommendation when other teams said he would need the surgery. Its the fact these things keep getting bumbled that I am tired of. The bills' ortho gave an interview? I must have missed it. Not sure one way or the other that Rex and Whaley accurately related the advice that was given to them. Not sure how any of us could know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Is Whaley completely powerless in this scenario? If he keeps getting bad information, isn't it his job to get better staff reporting to him? And if he doesn't, isn't he ultimately responsible for these failures? No. Yes. Yes. Feel free to make changes to the medical / training staff if they aren't doing their job, but the buck doesn't stop there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wing Man Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Feet are tricky injuries. They can foretell the end of a career or the crippling of one. May be too early to write off Watkins but I'm sure there's more than a little concern over at One Bills Drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P51 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 to be able to use his roster spot for Hunter and rest it. He's a very poor mans Brandon Marshall (IMO), minus the physicality, strength and fire to make plays, he is a deep threat with all the physical deep threat talent in the world, but sloppy footwork on short and intermediate routes, nothing has changed since college, he's still one a one dimensional clean deep ball threat who won't win contested balls and worse for him is he tends to be a body catcher. Fortunately for him, if he can be the vertical threat they need now and paired in the future w/a healthy Sammy, it could be exactly what the offense they have and I think want to run, could need. Why not role the dice and see if he can be what he was heading towards before his ACL injury at Tenn. They need him to stretch the field... and Sammy to get healthy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stony Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Coming from a semi-apologist, playing Sammy so quickly seemed like a desperate move from a FO/coaching staff who was starting to feel the pressure to win now. Feet are tricky injuries. They can foretell the end of a career or the crippling of one. May be too early to write off Watkins but I'm sure there's more than a little concern over at One Bills Drive. Yes they are. You see so many great basketball players have to shut it down early because of them, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 The medical and training staff should be able to heal players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 The Medical Training staff has let us down so many times IDK how they honestly still work here? I mean what do they tell Pegs with the Shaq, Sammy mess? The medical and training staff should be able to heal players. Damn strait, or at least diagnose properly. They !@#$ed up this season for Sammy, shoulda sat him all TC and the 1st 4 games, he woulda been ready to go for the heat of the season. smh at that one breh! Coming from a semi-apologist, playing Sammy so quickly seemed like a desperate move from a FO/coaching staff who was starting to feel the pressure to win now. and pop goes the weasel! Maybe "some" players are softer than players years ago?! Most are trying to play for a bigger and better contract. Why not take it easy and get through the first one?? Im starting to think it has to do with the soft ass practices they have now, they arent getting their bodies used to the punishment like the 90s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klos63 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I have been saying this for a long time now...why does this team have so much bad luck with keeping its talent healthy and on the field? I got flamed during the off season and preseason for bringing this up and one of the main arguments back against me was Sammy Watkins recovery and him liking our trainers. Yet here we are again...Sammy just like last year, came back too early and wasn't ready and now instead of being healthy his problem lingered and now is missing more time. McCoy last year too, Taylor, etc...our guys keep being put out there and cleared by our trainers before they are ready. When are they going to be held accountable for that when they really need to just sit the player to let it heal a week or two. Over and over again these mistakes happen, and our doctors and trainers also cleared Shaq and said he wouldn't need surgery and right out the gate it gets prove otherwise. How much evidence needs to continue to pile up that our GM and coaches are being handicapped by bad decisions, information or poor recovery efforts on our players by our medical staff and trainers? We are either the most unlucky team in history (which isn't off the table lol) or our medical and training staff just aren't doing a good job. People want to hold Rex and Whaley responsible for making decisions based on what the Medical staff and Trainers tell them...but when do they get to face the music? Its getting ridiculous around here, they can't keep anyone healthy...they can't get anyone healthy...they can't properly evaluate the medical risk of prospects. Im still looking around to see what exactly they have done well to have kept their jobs. 1. Players never come back healthy before expected. 2. Players rarely come back when expected and in full recovery. 3. Players frequently come back later than expected and often still not at 100%. 4. They frequently put our guys back out there before 100% and either see the injury become worse or see it linger on for long periods of time. 5. They were completely wrong in the advice they gave to Whaley about Shaq's shoulder. I mean none of the above has anything to do with coaching or our GM. It can't all be bad luck when the one constant through the years is this terrible medical staff and training staff. I don't care if the players like them, doesn't make them effective at their job. I can think of tons of terrible Head Coaches players loved, didn't make them good coaches. Its time some heads start roll in these departments IMO. this is becoming a legitimate discussion point. I've never been one to jump on board these types of broad criticisms, but their record deserves at the very least, some scrutiny. Players to seem to come back and then miss more time with the same injury. We hear of Sammy, McCoy , TT, but let's not forget Cordy Glenn missing time in the preseason with a bad ankle, then reinjures the same ankle in the first game back and now has missed the last 2. I don't blame anyone for the initial injuries, it just seems the treatment and evaluations of the healing process are questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Never ending cycle. Starts w/winning. If we were a winning franchise, you'd see them maybe comeback quicker,depending on injury. Right now we lose all the time. Culture will change when we win. Does a player want to comeback 80, 90% for a lost cause? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitro Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Indy fans have the same complaint. Injuries pile up every season. You have to look at the training staff and assess where the flaws and weaknesses are. The team needs to stay healthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobbyC81 Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I honestly would just like to know the whole story If the foot is structurally sound as they say......why is he being placed on IR? Rex said a player stepped on his foot during a walk through and that player was released. He didn't play since so it must've made it worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 This board has become completely unhinged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 This board has become completely unhinged No doubt! The training and medical staff are to blame? What the H is going on around here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BilLions Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I don't have a source but, haven't injuries been an issue for a long time now? I seem to recall the only exception was the period Marone was is charge. Not that I liked him but thought this was more than a coincidence and therefore think it has more to do with coaching than medical staff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1st Ammendment NoMas Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 since rusty jones left we have been a team of glass THIS!! Agreed, since Rusty left we have had an increase in players on IR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fadingpain Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Fans love to fire people. Don't like it? You're fired! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boater Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I don't know the details of Sammy's foot injury, or the treatments. But I do hope they considered hyperbaric treatment. https://www.google.com/search?q=hyperbaric+chamber+nfl One of the guys on my crew had a stress fracture that just would not heal. The Naval Hospital put him in the chamber for a few sessions, and bingo: cured. If any med types here have insights, please chime in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 I agree with the OP that this team used to draft players with a questionable injury history and came out with hall of Famers. Jim kelly drafted with shoulder with pins inserted in his senior year. Thurman Thomas with a reconstructed knee. Just look at the history of players acquired recently that can't stay healthy. The team's first two draft choices this year-Sammy, Clay and even Shady who played in only 12 games last year. OG Chris Williams who played in three games given a 5.5 mill guaranteed 13.5 million per contract among others Indy fans have the same complaint. Injuries pile up every season. You have to look at the training staff and assess where the flaws and weaknesses are. The team needs to stay healthy. Seems like whomever is giving the team the okay to obtain questionable players is a Patriots fan. Far, far too many players on IR every year since Jauron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 1, 2016 Share Posted October 1, 2016 Coming from a semi-apologist, playing Sammy so quickly seemed like a desperate move from a FO/coaching staff who was starting to feel the pressure to win now. I think this is probably correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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