Sign Tyrod Now! (Or Not?)

[MarlinTheMagician]

Personally, I really would like to see the Bills get Tyrod done now. Will give them clarity on their cap situation, and will avoid a potential distraction. I also think we are weighing risks here - forcing him to prove it reduces risk of a bad signing. If he does however I suspect the price goes up a great deal. Given that I have a lot of faith in Tyrod, I personally think the smart move is to get it done now. Be interested in what the board thinks.

 

I also fear Tyrod gets hurt and EJ comes in and plays well enough to create a controversy. That would be very bad, from my perspective, because I think Tyrod is the much better long-term choice. I know this is a deep minority view. I thought EJ showed promise until hurt in Cleveland - he played with confidence and brought them back to win a couple of times. After that, he seemed to lose his swagger, started aiming the ball and refused to throw receivers open. Then last year, his determination to "let it go" seemed an over-compensation resulting in lots of bad plays. Unlike almost everyone else I think he has the talent to be pretty good if he gets his head right, just not nearly as good as Tyrod. So with this roster I could see him coming in for a hurt Tyrod and winning a bunch of games. If we make the playoffs under him, I fear are QB situation becomes a mess. I believe I am the only one that thinks this is plausible - anyone else have a scrap of confidence left in EJ? My expectation is no.

 

But I want Tyrod, and I would like to see him signed before the season. Be interested in people's thoughts on both signing Tyrod and whether EJ has any hope to salvage his career. If he lasts that long, I could see him becoming an adequate starter in about year 6 or 7 of his career - but it won't be in Buffalo.

 

Go Bills.

[Mr. WEO]

Holy cow...

[PromoTheRobot]

Waiting will only cost you more. If you think you are getting another Fitz or Trent with TT maybe your evaluation skills are lacking.

[FireChan]

Waiting will only cost you more. If you think you are getting another Fitz or Trent with TT maybe your evaluation skills are lacking.

But didn't you think all 3 would be great?

 

The only controversy EJ is bringing is his attempt to open a Popeye's in Buffalo.

[3rdand12]

He is already signed.

[GunnerBill]

I am still of the view that unless we can find a bridge contract I'd rather wait. I'd plan on trying to get Gilmore done giving myself the freedom to use the tag on Tyrod next season in the worst case scenario.

 

We are going to be paying Tyrod $20m a year unless he proves next year that he is definitely NOT the long term answer.

[MarlinTheMagician]

Well, I think they should sign him now. And I hope EJ makes it late in his career someplace else and is not opening a Popeye's. Given his work ethic and tools, it would not shock me - but I also think it is more likely that he doesn't. Sign Tyrod, agree it will cost you more later - wait if you think you have a Trent or Losman or Fitz. Not what I think in this case.

[Protocal69]

Personally, I really would like to see the Bills get Tyrod done now. Will give them clarity on their cap situation, and will avoid a potential distraction. I also think we are weighing risks here - forcing him to prove it reduces risk of a bad signing. If he does however I suspect the price goes up a great deal. Given that I have a lot of faith in Tyrod, I personally think the smart move is to get it done now. Be interested in what the board thinks.

 

I also fear Tyrod gets hurt and EJ comes in and plays well enough to create a controversy. That would be very bad, from my perspective, because I think Tyrod is the much better long-term choice. I know this is a deep minority view. I thought EJ showed promise until hurt in Cleveland - he played with confidence and brought them back to win a couple of times. After that, he seemed to lose his swagger, started aiming the ball and refused to throw receivers open. Then last year, his determination to "let it go" seemed an over-compensation resulting in lots of bad plays. Unlike almost everyone else I think he has the talent to be pretty good if he gets his head right, just not nearly as good as Tyrod. So with this roster I could see him coming in for a hurt Tyrod and winning a bunch of games. If we make the playoffs under him, I fear are QB situation becomes a mess. I believe I am the only one that thinks this is plausible - anyone else have a scrap of confidence left in EJ? My expectation is no.

 

But I want Tyrod, and I would like to see him signed before the season. Be interested in people's thoughts on both signing Tyrod and whether EJ has any hope to salvage his career. If he lasts that long, I could see him becoming an adequate starter in about year 6 or 7 of his career - but it won't be in Buffalo.

 

Go Bills.

 

 

If I could give you post of the year regarding E.J I would because in my eyes this is exactly what happened with him. I truly feel sorry for him. Like Jay-Z said " Once you are tag lame in the game then its follow the leader"

 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Protocal69

[BaaadThingsMan]

Why is it that every contract has to better the last? Why couldn't all contracts be separate, paid to level and length of production? Even if TT comes out and tears ass all year I see no reason to go over $13-$17 mil a year. The thing is, he won't sign for that and some team will eventually have to go over $20 mil to get it done with the Franchise tag likely be at or near $20 mil.

[White Linen]

Why is it that every contract has to better the last? Why couldn't all contracts be separate, paid to level and length of production? Even if TT comes out and tears ass all year I see no reason to go over $13-$17 mil a year. The thing is, he won't sign for that and some team will eventually have to go over $20 mil to get it done with the Franchise tag likely be at or near $20 mil.

 

The market

[PromoTheRobot]

Why is it that every contract has to better the last? Why couldn't all contracts be separate, paid to level and length of production? Even if TT comes out and tears ass all year I see no reason to go over $13-$17 mil a year. The thing is, he won't sign for that and some team will eventually have to go over $20 mil to get it done with the Franchise tag likely be at or near $20 mil.

Not sure what you mean by tears ass? You mean tears it up or kicks ass? If you mean he plays very well he's not taking less than $22MM/year. You can't even sign a bad QB for $13-17 mil.

[Thurman#1]

Sure, I'd be willing to sign him.

 

But not for the $21 - $22 million it would probably cost right now to get Tyrod's signature on the line.

 

I don't really agree with the "it'll only cost more later" crowd. IMHO it's more like we don't really know yet if Tyrod's worth what he thinks he is, which is what he (reasonably) wants. The guy's betting on himself, and good on him for it, but I think people here are imagining we could get him for less than $20 mill right now, and it just simply doesn't seem he'd sign for that. If he improves a lot, we'll learn that he's actually worth what he's probably willing to sign for. I could imagine his demands going up a bit, but most likely they're already high enough that they couldn't reasonably go up all that much.

 

He's unlikely to end up getting more than Luck, Rodgers and those folks, unless the year he has next year is truly elite. Which is very unlikely to happen in his second year as a starter.

Edited July 17, 2016 by Thurman#1

[8-8 Forever?]

not sure on this one... my sense is to wait... hell, Russell Wilson was a proven commodity and Seattle waited ... the $$ will be the $$ whether they sign him now or a year from now... might as well wait until a year from now when they can assess the impact on the rest of the roster... I don't believe they have the cap space for both he and Gilmore

[Dr. Fong]

Is it possible that maybe he doesn't want to sign a contract now? I don't know why people have this discussion every time there is a free agent to sign. I can't imagine why Taylor would sign a contract right now without at least dangling the possibility of his hitting the free market in front of the Bills. Taylor and his agent are in the driver's seat on this one.

[Dragonborn10]

Sign Gilmore. Tag TT. That is the play. Even if you have to overpay a bit to get the Gilmore deal done.

[BarleyNY]

This topic has been beaten to death prior to this thread, but I'll recap my position:

- EJ is a dead man walking in B-lo. There's really no plausible scenario where he's here next season. The sooner both parties move on, the better for both.

- CBs like Gilmore are necessary to run Rex's defense, which puts a lot of pressure on the position. I see a deal getting done prior to the season.

- Taylor hasn't yet earned the deal he would accept and the Bills aren't in a position where they are forced to make a move with him. His contract (and where he plays in 2017) will be determined by his play this season. Taylor really has no choice but to bet on himself. He can't hold out because so much is riding on his play and he needs all of the preparation possible. The Bills are wary of giving Taylor a big deal now as the risks far outweigh the rewards. The franchise tag is available next offseason if needed.

[PromoTheRobot]

It's been proven over and over that players love the franchise tag and always abide by the teams decision.

[BarleyNY]

It's been proven over and over that players love the franchise tag and always abide by the teams decision.

I see you're still worried about the team hurting Taylor's feelings. Do we really need to go down this path again?

[Doc]

Not.

[Maury Ballstein]

Waiting will only cost you more. If you think you are getting another Fitz or Trent with TT maybe your evaluation skills are lacking.

But didn't you think all 3 would be great?

.

Promo the Fitzlover. TT is different I tell you. He's quietly spectacular!!

[Beerball]

Is it possible that maybe he doesn't want to sign a contract now? I don't know why people have this discussion every time there is a free agent to sign. I can't imagine why Taylor would sign a contract right now without at least dangling the possibility of his hitting the free market in front of the Bills. Taylor and his agent are in the driver's seat on this one.

It's possible, but off season articles would indicate otherwise. Common sense would as well. What person would rather have a cheap deal for the short term and prefer that to a lucrative deal for the (relatively) long term?

[machine gun kelly]

This topic has been beaten to death prior to this thread, but I'll recap my position:

- EJ is a dead man walking in B-lo. There's really no plausible scenario where he's here next season. The sooner both parties move on, the better for both.

- CBs like Gilmore are necessary to run Rex's defense, which puts a lot of pressure on the position. I see a deal getting done prior to the season.

- Taylor hasn't yet earned the deal he would accept and the Bills aren't in a position where they are forced to make a move with him. His contract (and where he plays in 2017) will be determined by his play this season. Taylor really has no choice but to bet on himself. He can't hold out because so much is riding on his play and he needs all of the preparation possible. The Bills are wary of giving Taylor a big deal now as the risks far outweigh the rewards. The franchise tag is available next offseason if needed.

Great minds think alike and yes on all counts. There is nothing wrong with making sure we get a true franchise QB. If so, we'll pay $18-20 mil. With a hefty guarantee. He'll never make the case for Aaron Rodgers, Luck $. He'll be looking at Osweiler, Bradford, and Cousins when he gets signed nex year. We'll have the money, feel the security we have our guy with 30 games as an evaluation, and we still have Cardale to develop for a couple of years. We can only hope by the end of his rookie contract, he'll develop into a starting QB.

[Punching Bag]

It's been proven over and over that players love the franchise tag and always abide by the teams decision.

 

No they do not love it but their union negotiated it and if players do not like it replace union!

[BuffaloBaumer]

Per the same Bills scout that mentioned Reggie Bush, it sounds as though Bills are definitely waiting until the end of the season....

[Doc]

Per the same Bills scout that mentioned Reggie Bush, it sounds as though Bills are definitely waiting until the end of the season....

 

Good on waiting, bad on looking at RB. I have no idea why they'd do that when they have 4 RB's and 2 of them will miss just 6 games combined. How would you justify keeping 5 RB's? Even 4 is a stretch.

[MarlinTheMagician]

Some thoughts on the above:

 

1. Thank for the kind comment about my EJ post. No one is suggesting he has any future here, he doesn't. But I sure would like to see the kid have a decent career someplace else down the road. I think he caught a bad hand here. He was supposed to sit behind Kolb and learn for a year or two. Then the rubber mat attacked poor Kevin and EJ - who they knew was a developmental QB - was jammed in to be the starter. Then he got hurt, lost confidence, had the roof cave-in in Jacksonville and so now he is a joke. I don't think he is a joke. And I think there will be a market for him as a back-up when he leaves B-Lo this year.

 

2. Some above speculate it will cost the same now as later to sign Tyrod. To me, this defies logic and common sense. If he has a very good year, the price goes up. And if he has a very bad year it goes down. I expect the former more than the latter, especially in view of the weapons around him and the investment in the line (though I fear right tackle). I think this is the handicapping the front office must be doing, no?

 

3. Given my view that it is far more likely that TT progresses rather than regresses, I would get it done now, take our lumps on the cost and risk, and rest comfortable knowing what I bought. To me, the ONLY risk with Tyrod is if he proves incapable of avoiding injury. The other criticisms I can't imagine him not overcoming - not throwing over the middle enough or "escaping the pocket from the rear." If he plays a couple years, i can't imagine him not throwing over the middle adequately. Last year he was managed by coaches and likely did not want to blow his chance by throwing a bunch of INTs and getting pulled (as EJ in Jacksonville did). I have no doubt he can throw over the middle with a little more seasoning.

 

Go Bills, Go Tyrod. By the way, bring in Fred as a quality control coach or something. He can smack guys like Karlos upside the head.

 

[3rdand12]

Per the same Bills scout that mentioned Reggie Bush, it sounds as though Bills are definitely waiting until the end of the season....

It seems the wise thing to do.

Some thoughts on the above:

 

1. Thank for the kind comment about my EJ post. No one is suggesting he has any future here, he doesn't. But I sure would like to see the kid have a decent career someplace else down the road. I think he caught a bad hand here. He was supposed to sit behind Kolb and learn for a year or two. Then the rubber mat attacked poor Kevin and EJ - who they knew was a developmental QB - was jammed in to be the starter. Then he got hurt, lost confidence, had the roof cave-in in Jacksonville and so now he is a joke. I don't think he is a joke. And I think there will be a market for him as a back-up when he leaves B-Lo this year.

 

2. Some above speculate it will cost the same now as later to sign Tyrod. To me, this defies logic and common sense. If he has a very good year, the price goes up. And if he has a very bad year it goes down. I expect the former more than the latter, especially in view of the weapons around him and the investment in the line (though I fear right tackle). I think this is the handicapping the front office must be doing, no?

 

3. Given my view that it is far more likely that TT progresses rather than regresses, I would get it done now, take our lumps on the cost and risk, and rest comfortable knowing what I bought. To me, the ONLY risk with Tyrod is if he proves incapable of avoiding injury. The other criticisms I can't imagine him not overcoming - not throwing over the middle enough or "escaping the pocket from the rear." If he plays a couple years, i can't imagine him not throwing over the middle adequately. Last year he was managed by coaches and likely did not want to blow his chance by throwing a bunch of INTs and getting pulled (as EJ in Jacksonville did). I have no doubt he can throw over the middle with a little more seasoning.

 

Go Bills, Go Tyrod. By the way, bring in Fred as a quality control coach or something. He can smack guys like Karlos upside the head.

 

I like this post.

And my favorite bit is the very last sentence ~

[BarleyNY]

Some thoughts on the above:

 

1. Thank for the kind comment about my EJ post. No one is suggesting he has any future here, he doesn't. But I sure would like to see the kid have a decent career someplace else down the road. I think he caught a bad hand here. He was supposed to sit behind Kolb and learn for a year or two. Then the rubber mat attacked poor Kevin and EJ - who they knew was a developmental QB - was jammed in to be the starter. Then he got hurt, lost confidence, had the roof cave-in in Jacksonville and so now he is a joke. I don't think he is a joke. And I think there will be a market for him as a back-up when he leaves B-Lo this year.

 

2. Some above speculate it will cost the same now as later to sign Tyrod. To me, this defies logic and common sense. If he has a very good year, the price goes up. And if he has a very bad year it goes down. I expect the former more than the latter, especially in view of the weapons around him and the investment in the line (though I fear right tackle). I think this is the handicapping the front office must be doing, no?

 

3. Given my view that it is far more likely that TT progresses rather than regresses, I would get it done now, take our lumps on the cost and risk, and rest comfortable knowing what I bought. To me, the ONLY risk with Tyrod is if he proves incapable of avoiding injury. The other criticisms I can't imagine him not overcoming - not throwing over the middle enough or "escaping the pocket from the rear." If he plays a couple years, i can't imagine him not throwing over the middle adequately. Last year he was managed by coaches and likely did not want to blow his chance by throwing a bunch of INTs and getting pulled (as EJ in Jacksonville did). I have no doubt he can throw over the middle with a little more seasoning.

 

Go Bills, Go Tyrod. By the way, bring in Fred as a quality control coach or something. He can smack guys like Karlos upside the head.

 

1. I agree. EJ did get dealt a bad hand here. At this point there's not much to be done about it except part ways as soon as reasonably feasible and wish each other well.

2. I don't think anyone is saying he'll cost the same after this season as he does now. It's just that the added risk of signing him now wouldn't be offset by the savings. With the contracts going to players with limited starts - like Osweiler - Tyrod would be expecting a big deal. It's better to be sure of what we have and give him a bigger deal if he proves himself. Or, if he doesn't, move on.

3. I see the biggest risk with Taylor having to do with shouldering more of the offensive load. If he passes more, then he'll see defenses focus more on stopping the pass. Health is also a concern - even from the standpoint of judging him fairly. Also I would have liked to have seen the Bills focused more on improving the offense this past offseason. Judging Taylor fairly means putting him into position to succeed and I don't think they've done enough to help him there. It's an easy answer if he's a lot better or worse than 2015, but what if he's about the same? That's a tough call and it's what I see as the most likely scenario.

[Mike in Horseheads]

I personally wouldn't give Gilmore 18m that he will want and No i wouldn't sign TT now. IF he makes it through the year not broken into pieces ( I have doubts on durability) and they can't come to agreement franchise tag him and too bad if he's pissed off. Of course thats why I'm not a GM of a football team but a CFO of a NFP, I'm cheap!

[Rockinon]

Next up is Gilmore. Taylor will happen soon enough.

[Virgil]

Right now, the floor for TT is 18 mil. If Osweiler got 17, TT is getting a min of 18. Outside of Luck, the next top 5 make about 22 mil a year.

 

With that, there is absolutely no reason to jump the gun on TT if the variable is only 4 mil a year. If he does great, we paid an extra 2-4 mil a year to be sure of our investment. Well worth it.

 

If he tanks and we signed him, it's Fitz all over again.

 

I like TT. I want him to do win the job and be the man for years to come. But we are in a great situation with him right now.

 

My biggest fear, he only plays in 75% of the games, plays great in half of those and average in the remainder and we are forced to guess next season yet again.

[billykaykay]

Why is it that every contract has to better the last? Why couldn't all contracts be separate, paid to level and length of production? Even if TT comes out and tears ass all year I see no reason to go over $13-$17 mil a year. The thing is, he won't sign for that and some team will eventually have to go over $20 mil to get it done with the Franchise tag likely be at or near $20 mil.

Houston has set the bottom with the $18M for Osweiler. He hasn't done anything that TT hasn't done. $13-$17M is history. If the Bills like TT, sign him. You gotta trust your eyes & your coaches in judging talent. I like TT a lot - reminds me of Russell Wilson but with accuracy. I am not sure if the Bills brass feels the same way. We shall see.

[mead107]

Wait

[simpleman]

Can't agree that TT has proven enough to not put him in the Fitz, Trent category yet, this is his prove it year. We have 2 years with the tag to decide if TT actually is worth it. Don't need to gamble. And by 2018 we might even have drafted a true franchise QB, never know.

[Mr. WEO]

 

Good on waiting, bad on looking at RB. I have no idea why they'd do that when they have 4 RB's and 2 of them will miss just 6 games combined. How would you justify keeping 5 RB's? Even 4 is a stretch.

 

 

"there's this thing called "depth""

[Doc]

"there's this thing called "depth""

 

They already have it. Shady. Gillislee. Jonathan Williams. James Wilder. Boom Herron. Karlos Williams for 12 games. No need to add a guy on the wrong side of 30 who hasn't been productive the past 2 seasons and who is coming off ACL surgery.

[BUNCH OF MULARKEY]

Is it possible that maybe he doesn't want to sign a contract now? I don't know why people have this discussion every time there is a free agent to sign. I can't imagine why Taylor would sign a contract right now without at least dangling the possibility of his hitting the free market in front of the Bills. Taylor and his agent are in the driver's seat on this one.

Anythings possible but it's really a gamble for him. If he gets hurt he's gonna lose a ton of money.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

Promo the Fitzlover. TT is different I tell you. He's quietly spectacular!!

Me? Didn't Gugny want to trade for Fitz to upgrade at QB?

 

You guys get off on failure. I prefer to be optimistic. And if that irks you all so much the better.

Edited July 18, 2016 by PromoTheRobot

[FireChan]

Me? Didn't Gugny want to trade for Fitz to upgrade at QB?

 

You guys get off on failure. I prefer to be optimistic. And if that irks you all so much the better.

That's the point.

[billsfan714]

Wait.