Sign Tyrod Now! (Or Not?)

[Buffalo Barbarian]

But didn't you think all 3 would be great?

 

The only controversy EJ is bringing is his attempt to open a Popeye's in Buffalo.

 

I've always wanted to try Popeye's, go ej !

[Maury Ballstein]

I've always wanted to try Popeye's, go ej !

Ej's spicy chicken strip combo ?

 

I'm in.

[Bill from NYC]

Right now, the floor for TT is 18 mil. If Osweiler got 17, TT is getting a min of 18. Outside of Luck, the next top 5 make about 22 mil a year.

 

With that, there is absolutely no reason to jump the gun on TT if the variable is only 4 mil a year. If he does great, we paid an extra 2-4 mil a year to be sure of our investment. Well worth it.

 

If he tanks and we signed him, it's Fitz all over again.

 

I like TT. I want him to do win the job and be the man for years to come. But we are in a great situation with him right now.

 

My biggest fear, he only plays in 75% of the games, plays great in half of those and average in the remainder and we are forced to guess next season yet again.

At this point, TT is about the only thing that can save the Bills. I hope they redo his contract today.

 

Between injuries and suspensions, the roster keeps on getting thinner, and this is before any contact. Not good. The GM is way over his head and we have one of the worst coaches in the league, if not THE very worst. The last time I felt this down on the team entering a season was the year AVP was the starter for a while.

 

I know almost all of you cannot see it, but I sincerely believe that Rex will not last the season.

 

We shall see.

[GunnerBill]

At this point, TT is about the only thing that can save the Bills. I hope they redo his contract today.

 

Between injuries and suspensions, the roster keeps on getting thinner, and this is before any contact. Not good. The GM is way over his head and we have one of the worst coaches in the league, if not THE very worst. The last time I felt this down on the team entering a season was the year AVP was the starter for a while.

 

I know almost all of you cannot see it, but I sincerely believe that Rex will not last the season.

 

We shall see.

 

I agree on Rex, I disagree on Whaley and I wouldn't extend TT yet.... I just see no benefit in it at this stage given the options that the Bills have available to them beyond this season.

[BarleyNY]

Good on waiting, bad on looking at RB. I have no idea why they'd do that when they have 4 RB's and 2 of them will miss just 6 games combined. How would you justify keeping 5 RB's? Even 4 is a stretch.

At least one RB (Karlos Williams) is going to be suspended for 4 games to start the season. He won't count for a roster spot until he comes back, though. But he was being counted on to be the #2. Jonathan Williams is a potential suspension due to the DUI arrest, though that is by no means certain. A good team plans for it, though. Those are 2 of the top 3 backs on the roster. Even assuming Gillislee is carried as a 4th back (3rd while Karlos is suspended), the RB corps could be hurting to start the season even if everything else goes well.

 

But what if it doesn't? What if Karlos misses 4 games and still comes back out of shape? What if Shady's hamstring is still bothering him? What if any one of the top 4 RBs gets injured in training camp or preseason? I don't blame Whaley one bit for looking at RBs. No need to pull the trigger just yet, but why not see who's available and be ready to move if needed? They'd just better not be all he's looking for.

[26CornerBlitz]

@SalSports

I wrote about Tyrod's contract situation, compared/contrasted it to Kirk Cousins' and said what Bills should do: http://www.wgr550.com/Like-Redskins-with-Cousins-Bills-can-wait-on-Tyrod/22814693

[Luxy312]

There is no reason to redo his contract today, unless the front office were convinced that he's a franchise guy AND they could get him at a discount. Looking at the top paid guys, there are some big numbers out there. Brees counts $30.0m against the cap this year. $20.0m of that is cash this year. Eli Manning $24.2m. Rivers, $21.0m. Newton $19.5m. Middle of the road Jay Cutler is getting $17.0. The pros of doing a deal now is that you don't have to guarantee the $30.0-$40.0 million that he'll get if he performs at a high level. The biggest con here is that you're basically still guaranteeing a bunch of money that you don't have to, for a guy that was somewhat inconsistent last year when games were really on the line. What does that do other than potentially handcuff the team next year or beyond with dead money if he doesn't perform or shows the same level of inconsistency? They're not paying him tag money this year, so there's really no reason to gamble. If he performs like Russell Wilson this year, then we pay him like Russell Wilson next year. Easiest decision this team would ever have to make.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Cardale could be the source of a QB controversy some day, but EJs chance to do that in this franchise has passed.

 

TT can be kept. It's just not clear yet how expense that may be.

 

If Tyrod plays well, shows improvement, builds on last season, he becomes the top priority over every other signal player under contract or not. If TT overcomes his few development gaps and I'm Doug, I'm finding his money, with cuts, restructures, trades to offload the cap, anything

[Luxy312]

Cardale could be the source of a QB controversy some day, but EJs chance to do that in this franchise has passed.

 

TT can be kept. It's just not clear yet how expense that may be.

 

If Tyrod plays well, shows improvement, builds on last season, he becomes the top priority over every other signal player under contract or not. If TT overcomes his few development gaps and I'm Doug, I'm finding his money, with cuts, restructures, trades to offload the cap, anything

 

They're not going to have to do a ton to find his money. With reclamation of dead money and contracts expiring, they're going to go into the offseason right now some $32.5m under the projected cap. They have to sign Gilmore no doubt and next year will be the last year of the Watkins deal, but I would presume that they will be less in salary cap hell next year than they were this.

[Doc]

At least one RB (Karlos Williams) is going to be suspended for 4 games to start the season. He won't count for a roster spot until he comes back, though. But he was being counted on to be the #2. Jonathan Williams is a potential suspension due to the DUI arrest, though that is by no means certain. A good team plans for it, though. Those are 2 of the top 3 backs on the roster. Even assuming Gillislee is carried as a 4th back (3rd while Karlos is suspended), the RB corps could be hurting to start the season even if everything else goes well.

 

But what if it doesn't? What if Karlos misses 4 games and still comes back out of shape? What if Shady's hamstring is still bothering him? What if any one of the top 4 RBs gets injured in training camp or preseason? I don't blame Whaley one bit for looking at RBs. No need to pull the trigger just yet, but why not see who's available and be ready to move if needed? They'd just better not be all he's looking for.

 

If they're looking to sign Reggie Bush after the season starts and pay him on a per-game basis, I'd have no problem with it. Paying him for the whole season and dropping him after KW comes back? No way.

[Blokestradamus]

I'm on the side of waiting until there's a bigger sample size to assess but I'm warming to Tyrod more as time goes by. I think it's more the fact that he's better than certain other QB's that have got paid recently (I have a salary cap thing out for BillsMafia tomorrow hopefully where I'll outline one of those a little more).

 

I have no doubts about paying him if he continues to progress. Even if his ceiling isn't a great deal higher than what 2015 showed, not having him might be more costly than what might be seen as an overpayment.

 

I also think there's plenty of ways to pay both Tyrod and Gilmore. Might not be a lot for new goodies in FA because of that but securing cornerstones for the future is the right path.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Blokestradamus

[Gugny]

Personally, I really would like to see the Bills get Tyrod done now. Will give them clarity on their cap situation, and will avoid a potential distraction. I also think we are weighing risks here - forcing him to prove it reduces risk of a bad signing. If he does however I suspect the price goes up a great deal. Given that I have a lot of faith in Tyrod, I personally think the smart move is to get it done now. Be interested in what the board thinks.

 

I also fear Tyrod gets hurt and EJ comes in and plays well enough to create a controversy. That would be very bad, from my perspective, because I think Tyrod is the much better long-term choice. I know this is a deep minority view. I thought EJ showed promise until hurt in Cleveland - he played with confidence and brought them back to win a couple of times. After that, he seemed to lose his swagger, started aiming the ball and refused to throw receivers open. Then last year, his determination to "let it go" seemed an over-compensation resulting in lots of bad plays. Unlike almost everyone else I think he has the talent to be pretty good if he gets his head right, just not nearly as good as Tyrod. So with this roster I could see him coming in for a hurt Tyrod and winning a bunch of games. If we make the playoffs under him, I fear are QB situation becomes a mess. I believe I am the only one that thinks this is plausible - anyone else have a scrap of confidence left in EJ? My expectation is no.

 

But I want Tyrod, and I would like to see him signed before the season. Be interested in people's thoughts on both signing Tyrod and whether EJ has any hope to salvage his career. If he lasts that long, I could see him becoming an adequate starter in about year 6 or 7 of his career - but it won't be in Buffalo.

 

Go Bills.

 

No, thank you.

[H2o]

Personally, I really would like to see the Bills get Tyrod done now. Will give them clarity on their cap situation, and will avoid a potential distraction. I also think we are weighing risks here - forcing him to prove it reduces risk of a bad signing. If he does however I suspect the price goes up a great deal. Given that I have a lot of faith in Tyrod, I personally think the smart move is to get it done now. Be interested in what the board thinks.

 

I also fear Tyrod gets hurt and EJ comes in and plays well enough to create a controversy. That would be very bad, from my perspective, because I think Tyrod is the much better long-term choice. I know this is a deep minority view. I thought EJ showed promise until hurt in Cleveland - he played with confidence and brought them back to win a couple of times. After that, he seemed to lose his swagger, started aiming the ball and refused to throw receivers open. Then last year, his determination to "let it go" seemed an over-compensation resulting in lots of bad plays. Unlike almost everyone else I think he has the talent to be pretty good if he gets his head right, just not nearly as good as Tyrod. So with this roster I could see him coming in for a hurt Tyrod and winning a bunch of games. If we make the playoffs under him, I fear are QB situation becomes a mess. I believe I am the only one that thinks this is plausible - anyone else have a scrap of confidence left in EJ? My expectation is no.

 

But I want Tyrod, and I would like to see him signed before the season. Be interested in people's thoughts on both signing Tyrod and whether EJ has any hope to salvage his career. If he lasts that long, I could see him becoming an adequate starter in about year 6 or 7 of his career - but it won't be in Buffalo.

 

Go Bills.

1. We don't have the $ to do a QB deal right now AND still try to re-sign Gilmore. I think Gilmore is at the top of their "to do" list as far as in-house contracts go.

 

2. You will NEVER, EVER have to worry about EJ playing well enough to create ANY kind of controversy in Buffalo. He's here because there is no savings in cutting him.

 

3. We have the Franchise Tag we can use on TT if we have to next offseason. That will pay him $20,000,000. If you think he would pitch a fit about that you have the wrong guy. I imagine it would play out for us just like it has for Washington and Kirk Cousins this year.

 

Bottom line, they are waiting to see if Tyrod takes a step in the right direction. If he plateaued last year and there is no progression then he is not worth the $20,000,000+ he is seeking. It's not a bad strategy.He is under contract and we do have options beyond this season with him. If he does show growth as a QB you can bet your arse they do what it takes to get him signed long term.

[Marty McFly]

At this point, TT is about the only thing that can save the Bills. I hope they redo his contract today.

 

Between injuries and suspensions, the roster keeps on getting thinner, and this is before any contact. Not good. The GM is way over his head and we have one of the worst coaches in the league, if not THE very worst. The last time I felt this down on the team entering a season was the year AVP was the starter for a while.

 

I know almost all of you cannot see it, but I sincerely believe that Rex will not last the season.

 

We shall see.

 

At this point, TT is about the only thing that can save the Bills. I hope they redo his contract today.

 

Between injuries and suspensions, the roster keeps on getting thinner, and this is before any contact. Not good. The GM is way over his head and we have one of the worst coaches in the league, if not THE very worst. The last time I felt this down on the team entering a season was the year AVP was the starter for a while.

 

I know almost all of you cannot see it, but I sincerely believe that Rex will not last the season.

 

We shall see.

holy ****. Bill just pulled the Alex Van Pelt card!! LOL. They wont sign Tyrod until mid season the earliest. With the defense in shambles until Rex proves otherwise, I agree this season is gonna rely on the offensive output. If they can stay healthy and either Salas, Dez, or Listenbee have a break out year or at least play to the level of Hogan or better, our OFF can do some real damage.

1. We don't have the $ to do a QB deal right now AND still try to re-sign Gilmore. I think Gilmore is at the top of their "to do" list as far as in-house contracts go.

 

2. You will NEVER, EVER have to worry about EJ playing well enough to create ANY kind of controversy in Buffalo. He's here because there is no savings in cutting him.

 

3. We have the Franchise Tag we can use on TT if we have to next offseason. That will pay him $20,000,000. If you think he would pitch a fit about that you have the wrong guy. I imagine it would play out for us just like it has for Washington and Kirk Cousins this year.

 

Bottom line, they are waiting to see if Tyrod takes a step in the right direction. If he plateaued last year and there is no progression then he is not worth the $20,000,000+ he is seeking. It's not a bad strategy.He is under contract and we do have options beyond this season with him. If he does show growth as a QB you can bet your arse they do what it takes to get him signed long term.

Agree with Gilmore being the #1 priority. They can always tag Taylor if they cant reach a deal (I think they will keep TT, Pegs got a lot of $$$)

[Thurman#1]

People in this thread keep talking about how much the Bills should give him.

 

Contracts require two parties to agree.

 

And I haven't seen a single person in this thread recommend the Bills give enough money that Tyrod would probably consider it.

 

Tyrod's ambition is to be one of the best QBs in league history. He thinks he can do that. He's not going to accept these $18 mill contracts people on here want the Bills to give him.

 

There doesn't seem to be any area whatsoever that the two sides can come together at. This offseason. That's why nothing has happened and we'll have to see whether his performance this year moves the Bills up or Tyrod down or both, and whether they can find an area of agreement down the road.

[Doc]

People in this thread keep talking about how much the Bills should give him.

 

Contracts require two parties to agree.

 

And I haven't seen a single person in this thread recommend the Bills give enough money that Tyrod would probably consider it.

 

Tyrod's ambition is to be one of the best QBs in league history. He thinks he can do that. He's not going to accept these $18 mill contracts people on here want the Bills to give him.

 

There doesn't seem to be any area whatsoever that the two sides can come together at. This offseason. That's why nothing has happened and we'll have to see whether his performance this year moves the Bills up or Tyrod down or both, and whether they can find an area of agreement down the road.

 

Oh, he'd probably accept an $18M contract right now. The Bills won't give him a new deal until he proves himself this season. If it costs $2-3M more per season, so be it. Better than giving him $50M guaranteed and finding out he's just an average QB.

[ALF]

Russell Wilson played 3 great seasons before getting the big contract.

 

Kaepernick , Foles , Osweiler, the jury is still out . 1 good season does not always mean a franchise QB

 

I would play it safe with Taylor and see him another season. The number of times he runs will end in injury sooner or later.

 

If Taylor plays well the Bills will be glad to pay him the big money.

 

If Gilmore has a very good and injury free season , somehow someway pay them both after this season

Edited July 20, 2016 by ALF

[PromoTheRobot]

Russell Wilson played 3 great seasons before getting the big contract.

 

Kaepernick , Foles , Osweiler, the jury is still out . 1 good season does not always mean a franchise QB

 

I would play it safe with Taylor and see him another season. The number of times he runs will end in injury sooner or later.

 

If Taylor plays well the Bills will be glad to pay him the big money.

I think people's expectations of Taylor are unrealistic. Being good isn't good enough. He has to be amazing or else he's nothing.

[BarleyNY]

If they're looking to sign Reggie Bush after the season starts and pay him on a per-game basis, I'd have no problem with it. Paying him for the whole season and dropping him after KW comes back? No way.

 

That's what I think the Bills are laying groundwork for now. Getting feelers out, seeing where players at positions of need stand physically and seek contractually. Then they're ready to move quickly if needed. The RB corps would need to take a definite downturn for me to want the Bills to sign Bush early enough to guarantee him his salary for the season, but I also don't know where Shady's hamstring stands. If he was expected to miss games at the beginning of the season I'd move now to sign Bush or another back. With Karlos set to miss the first 4 games, no way would I want to go into the season with what we have left. Heck, there's even a chance that Jonathan Williams gets suspended for his DUI. Anyone feel comfortable playing Baltimore with Gillislee and Boom Herron? I sure as **** don't.

 

I think people's expectations of Taylor are unrealistic. Being good isn't good enough. He has to be amazing or else he's nothing.

Who said that?

[PromoTheRobot]

That's what I think the Bills are laying groundwork for now. Getting feelers out, seeing where players at positions of need stand physically and seek contractually. Then they're ready to move quickly if needed. The RB corps would need to take a definite downturn for me to want the Bills to sign Bush early enough to guarantee him his salary for the season, but I also don't know where Shady's hamstring stands. If he was expected to miss games at the beginning of the season I'd move now to sign Bush or another back. With Karlos set to miss the first 4 games, no way would I want to go into the season with what we have left. Heck, there's even a chance that Jonathan Williams gets suspended for his DUI. Anyone feel comfortable playing Baltimore with Gillislee and Boom Herron? I sure as **** don't.

 

 

Who said that?

Pretty much every doubter who feels what he did in 2015 sucked. If that sucked I can't imagine what good is.

[BarleyNY]

Pretty much every doubter who feels what he did in 2015 sucked. If that sucked I can't imagine what good is.

Weak sauce, man. Not one respectable poster here has said that. He had a good 14 game season in which he performed very well in a limited role. He wants paid large at a time when unproven QBs are getting almost as much as proven ones. He's being asked to prove his worth and seems willing to bet on himself. We'd all love to see him get a huge deal, but want him to earn it this season. It's what Flacco previously did and it's what Cousins is doing this season. Why is it such an issue for you?

[ddaryl]

Waiting will only cost you more. If you think you are getting another Fitz or Trent with TT maybe your evaluation skills are lacking.

lets get one thing straight. You do not have NFL talent evaluation skills, especially long term viability of a QB. You are merely a fan and nothing more

[Maury Ballstein]

I think people's expectations of Taylor are unrealistic. Being good isn't good enough. He has to be amazing or else he's nothing.

Good. Just not good enough to beat Alex Smith, Sam Bradford, Kirk Cousins when it mattered.

 

Pooping his pants when the defense was kicking Brady's behind in 2nd Pats game warrants no cash.

 

Take it easy Drew Rosenhaus. If he plays better he will get his money.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Ryan L Billz

[PromoTheRobot]

Thanks for proving my point, haters. First year starter goes 8-6. That's usually a cause for optimism, not a reason to cut a player.

Edited July 20, 2016 by PromoTheRobot

[FireChan]

Promo is reading a different TBD than me. "Cut a player?" This is insane. Is there a parallel universe I'm missing? Is Beerball the gate keeper?

[Luxy312]

I'm not sure where the options were limited to either signing him to a huge contract or cutting him. I don't think anyone has said that Taylor didn't have a good year last year. Most would simply recognize that he was at times, inconsistent. There is nothing to be saved by giving him a new deal now. The deal he signed last year was loaded with incentives that gave him a chance to be a starter, and voided the last year if that became true. Well that's true as we sit here today and I would bet money that his agent isn't going to tell him to take a discount for signing a deal early, when he expects to be "the guy" going forward.

In terms of the whole "being good versus great" thing, I don't think there's an argument to be made that Taylor has to be great. Joe Flacco hasn't been a top ten QB in any of the years he's played and that team regularly goes to the playoffs. He even has a ring. Cousins was good last year, but not great, and he's playing for his contract as well. Osweiler won a jackpot with his limited starts for Denver, but he's the exception rather than the rule. Players, of course, contribute to the win/loss record of their teams, but games are won and lost by teams. Would we say Phillip Rivers is horrible because his Chargers went 4-12 last year? Of course not. So Taylor going 8-6 is somewhat irrelevant.

If we see any growth from Taylor over last year, he'll earn his contract or get tagged next year. Until then, it's premature.

[Maury Ballstein]

Thanks for proving my point, haters. First year starter goes 8-6. That's usually a cause for optimism, not a reason to cut a player.

Thank god he got to play your other "amazing" qb Fitz 2x that helped him get over .500.

 

Spectacular stuff.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Ryan L Billz

[Blokestradamus]

Thanks for proving my point, haters. First year starter goes 8-6. That's usually a cause for optimism, not a reason to cut a player.

 

I'm not sure you got the memo. QBWinz is a myth.

[PromoTheRobot]

 

I'm not sure you got the memo. QBWinz is a myth.

Take that up with Ryan L Billz. And while you're at it, explain to him QB's play against defenses, not other QB's.

[MarlinTheMagician]

Sign him now. If the Bills lose him, I will never forgive them! Disagree that Gilmore is "so" critical. He has had trouble staying on the field, and while he has been extremely good at times other times not so much. Would love to see them sign Gilmore, but for me Tyrod is a greater priority.

[Maury Ballstein]

Take that up with Ryan L Billz. And while you're at it, explain to him QB's play against defenses, not other QB's.

excuses are fun. thank god we beat Kellen Moore.

[Doc]

Sign him now. If the Bills lose him, I will never forgive them! Disagree that Gilmore is "so" critical. He has had trouble staying on the field, and while he has been extremely good at times other times not so much. Would love to see them sign Gilmore, but for me Tyrod is a greater priority.

The tag ensures they won't lose him.

[John from Riverside]

Good. Just not good enough to beat Alex Smith, Sam Bradford, Kirk Cousins when it mattered.

 

Pooping his pants when the defense was kicking Brady's behind in 2nd Pats game warrants no cash.

 

Take it easy Drew Rosenhaus. If he plays better he will get his money.

Ryan this may have already been addressed by why are you blaming Tyrod that we lost to teams with Alex Smith, Sam Bradford, and Kirk Cousins on them?

 

QBs dont actually go against each other.

[BarleyNY]

Promo is reading a different TBD than me. "Cut a player?" This is insane. Is there a parallel universe I'm missing? Is Beerball the gate keeper?

He is vigilant in battling his imaginary foes as they commit terrible, imaginary acts. You've got to give him that.

[The Jokeman]

Not, as how many times have we seen QBs show good things one year and not so good in their second (see Doug Flutie, JP Losman, Drew Bledsoe, Ryan Fitzpatrick) am sure the list is even longer but I say Tyrod has to prove last year wasn't a fluke. Yet this far I'd say he is reminiscent of David Garrard's 2007 season and/or a poor man's Steve McNair. Yet the only difference is Tyrod isn't as bulky as those guys and might be more susceptible to injury. I roll the dice and see if he produces again and if he does then give him the money he wants. If not draft a QB in the early rounds next year to compete with Cardale to be our next young QB to try and develop.

[FireChan]

He is vigilant in battling his imaginary foes as they commit terrible, imaginary acts. You've got to give him that.

[Maury Ballstein]

He is vigilant in battling his imaginary foes as they commit terrible, imaginary acts. You've got to give him that.

I wonder if he's still hoping Tyrod holds out because he warned us FIRST !

[H2o]

I think quietly we are all rooting for Tyrod and hoping he is the guy. We all hope that last year wasn't a fluke because we have endured multiple years of futility at the QB position. I think the last thing any of us really wants is to still be looking for that QB by year's end. Hope Tyrod comes to work and handles business on the field so QB will not be a position we are fretting about come next offseason. Show growth in year 2, sign a new deal with the Bills, and let's get this team on the right track for many years to come.

[Beerball]

At this point, TT is about the only thing that can save the Bills. I hope they redo his contract today.

 

Between injuries and suspensions, the roster keeps on getting thinner, and this is before any contact. Not good. The GM is way over his head and we have one of the worst coaches in the league, if not THE very worst. The last time I felt this down on the team entering a season was the year AVP was the starter for a while.

 

I know almost all of you cannot see it, but I sincerely believe that Rex will not last the season.

 

We shall see.

If Rex won't last the season won't the entire mess be made worse by re-signing Taylor? (If Rex doesn't last the season it must be a disaster. If the season is a disaster with a just re-signed QB can you imagine the uproar?)

That's what I think the Bills are laying groundwork for now. Getting feelers out, seeing where players at positions of need stand physically and seek contractually. Then they're ready to move quickly if needed. The RB corps would need to take a definite downturn for me to want the Bills to sign Bush early enough to guarantee him his salary for the season, but I also don't know where Shady's hamstring stands. If he was expected to miss games at the beginning of the season I'd move now to sign Bush or another back. With Karlos set to miss the first 4 games, no way would I want to go into the season with what we have left. Heck, there's even a chance that Jonathan Williams gets suspended for his DUI. Anyone feel comfortable playing Baltimore with Gillislee and Boom Herron? I sure as **** don't.

 

Who said that?

I thought Shady was an ankle?

[Malazan]

I'd rather overpay after a 2nd good year than overpay him for one. I like him. I think he can play well. I just prefer the Flacco model. Give me something, first.

 

You're not paying a clear "starting" QB less than 20 million in this league anyway.