dave mcbride Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) I disagree completely. I think 95% of the people on this website are simply objective football fans who form honest opinions about what they see on the football field and hold no biases whatsoever. I didn't think EJ Manuel looked a starting NFL QB to me and was labeled a "hater" for it. I am encouraged by what I see from Taylor and have been called a "fanboi" for it. Guess what? I was right in both instances. If people were discouraged by what they saw in JP Losman after 2007, were they called "haters" around here? Honest question. How come no one ever calls out Seantrel Henderson "haters" after he has a poor performance? Am I just a Ronald Darby "fanboi?" Also something occurred to me yesterday- they showed Manuel on the sidelines and he was genuinely cheering on Taylor and I thought to myself, man I like this guy's attitude. I got so caught up in arguing with the nuts on this website that I maybe started to associate my frustration with them with EJ Manuel himself. I like Manuel a lot, he really seems like a good guy. Agreed. Edited December 7, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 The few brave souls who are still critical of Taylor are almost the exact same lot as the people who were still defending EJ til the bitter end. Many of them (with the exception of TYTT) have disappeared from this website since the game yesterday. Anyway, I want everyone to ask themselves a very simple question: do you really think that if EJ Manuel was 6-4 with 17 TD's and 4 INT's, 4th in the NFL in passer rating and 5th in the NFL in Y/A, that these guys would be nitpicking little things in EJ's game to be critical of? Yes, without hesitation. There were people calling for his benching after one game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Yes, without hesitation. There were people calling for his benching after one game. Which game? After his first game in 2013, everyone was impressed. After his first game in 2014, he was a decent game manager and they won a road game they were supposed to lose. After his first game this year, he was already firmly entrenched as the backup QB and there was no option behind him. So which game were people calling for EJ's benching after? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I think 95% of the people on this website are simply objective football fans who form honest opinions about what they see on the football field and hold no biases whatsoever. For me, simply, when a play needs to be made I have confidence that TT will get it done. Did not at all have that with EJ, and all the others going back 10 years or whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I disagree completely. I think 95% of the people on this website are simply objective football fans who form honest opinions about what they see on the football field and hold no biases whatsoever. I didn't think EJ Manuel looked a starting NFL QB to me and was labeled a "hater" for it. I am encouraged by what I see from Taylor and have been called a "fanboi" for it. Guess what? I was right in both instances. If people were discouraged by what they saw in JP Losman after 2007, were they called "haters" around here? Honest question. How come no one ever calls out Seantrel Henderson "haters" after he has a poor performance? Am I just a Ronald Darby "fanboi?" Also something occurred to me yesterday- they showed Manuel on the sidelines and he was genuinely cheering on Taylor and I thought to myself, man I like this guy's attitude. I got so caught up in arguing with the nuts on this website that I maybe started to associate my frustration with them with EJ Manuel himself. I like Manuel a lot, he really seems like a good guy. Then you were mislabeled a hater if that is true. And I agree about the 95% for the most part. But that leaves a substantial number of haters that would still be bitching about EJ after he had the Tyrod game. There are really only a handful of TT "haters." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Taylor played just about a perfect game this week, and fans really shouldn't ask for more from a guy who has only started only 10 games so far. His line gave him a lot of time on certain plays, and mostly JJ Watt was a non factor in rushing the passer. That could be because the Texans were more concerned about stopping McCoy who rushed 21 times for 112 yards. Now think about how Taylor would look like on last years team with Hackett calling 40+ pass plays a game behind one of the worst lines in the league, and with mostly no rushing game. My point being is it looks like Greg Roman is doing an outstanding job in developing this young QB so far, and this is the type of run first offense with McCoy at RB that is perfect to develop him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChan Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I grew to dislike EJ's chances when he never ever had a "great" game. He had games where he played well, but none where he was "on fire." TT has already done that. You need to be able to get hot or be a HoFer to be a Superbowl winning QB, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Anyway, I want everyone to ask themselves a very simple question: do you really think that if EJ Manuel was 6-4 with 17 TD's and 4 INT's, 4th in the NFL in passer rating and 5th in the NFL in Y/A, that these guys would be nitpicking little things in EJ's game to be critical of? The answer is absolutely yes. Part of that delusion is the need to be right. I'd love to get paid a buck every time a fan, Bills or otherwise, bumped a thread or comment just to show everyone "I told you so." No one likes to be wrong, and when you're wrong in front of a lot of people, it's easier to keep arguing that you're technically, if not purely, right about something, until you get to the point where the only thing left is to turn crybaby and tell someone to "go hump your fist" (like Tim Graham did yesterday on Twitter). The other part, at least where a quarterback is concerned, is that admitting you're wrong means it's time to start over. I was that way with J.P. Losman. I refused to admit he was done because it meant blowing everything up again. Jay Rosen probably doesn't remember, but it took him to set me straight while we were in Arizona where Trent got laid out on the third play. Walking to the stadium, he essentially told me (in a nicer way), "JP's done. Give it up." It sucked, but I finally gave up the fight to be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metzelaars_lives Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Then you were mislabeled a hater if that is true. And I agree about the 95% for the most part. But that leaves a substantial number of haters that would still be bitching about EJ after he had the Tyrod game. There are really only a handful of TT "haters." But how can you label someone a "hater" when they were criticizing someone who, by and large, played poorly? We've never seen EJ Manuel win more games than he's lost and have the 4th best passer rating in the league so I think it's unfair to assume that anyone would nitpick his game if he was playing at that level. Again, are the people concerned with Carpenter right now "hating?" I honestly believe that no one on here had it out for EJ. Why would they? He was a first round pick, had the so-called tools and seemed like a great guy. Conversely, I think there are a handful of people who have it out for Taylor because they are still emotionally distraught from all the s**t they took from defending EJ til the bitter end and are desperate to say, "see? He's not perfect either." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Im not a "I told you so" kinda guy......I think that is bad for discussion and frankly I am wrong from time to time myself I am just glad for the bills that they might have a QB It has been a long wait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Flutie Band Posted December 7, 2015 Author Share Posted December 7, 2015 I find Taylor to be less sucky now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I find Taylor to be less sucky now. LOL nice rebound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I find Taylor to be less sucky now. Progress! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I find Taylor to be less sucky now. It's a start. Although I think you should have added, "...and I find myself to be a lot more sucky now." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler#81 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 "Crowned or Dumpster" could be a fantastic weekly segment on the board. Agreed! Make it happen, E. Weekly post. Which players goes where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Why is EJ anything to do with this thread? I don't get it. Can we stop talking about EJ, mentioning EJ or comparing TT to EJ until such a time (if indeed it comes and I hope it doesn't) where he has to suit up again. I repeat what I have said before on Tyrod - he is playing better than anyone could have hoped for and is entrenched as our starter for 2016. He hasn't yet convinced me he is the long term future of the franchise but I am encouraged by his performances and his progress. The big thing I have been asking for was more use of the middle of the field and the last two weeks I have seen encouraging signs in that regard. I'd still like to see some more consistency in finding those intermediate 10-20 yard throws, especially on 3rd and medium type downs but I think you can see aspects of his game developing. That is a good sign. Edited December 7, 2015 by GunnerBill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 did someone mention EJ.....he sucks.......(laffin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I'll agree with all that. He's made accurate throws into a handful of buckets, both short and deep down the sidelines. As he grows hopefully he gets more comfortable in the intermediate, the middle of the field, and his timing both in the pocket and delivering the ball. All places that he could grow (or falter). To be a long term success he will need to hone those areas of opportunity into consistent successes. Will he end up more Russell Wilson or more kaepernick/rg3 with his curve? Don't know yet, especially with limited looks a lot of weeks between injury and the ground game- but it should be a fun one to watch if you like keeping an eye on development and not just arguing whether he deserves to be crowned or in a dumpster You are astute and perspicacious! It my view he certainly is more of a Russell Wilson type than a Kaep or RGIII based on the attribute that he keeps his eyes looking down the field, even when he is moving away from the pressure. His first instinct is not to take off but it is to buy time and get the ball out to the receivers. Kaepernick is a physical specimen. The problem is that he reflexively reacts to pressure by taking off instead of going through a few progressions. The same flaw applies to RGIII who simply can't read defenses so his first instinct is to take off. As I and others have stated what we're looking for is progress in his game. Yesterday, he did a lot of work out of the pocket that resulted in big plays. Both Clay and Watkins were beneficiaries of him quickly scanning the whole field and throwing the ball deep. He trusted his eyes and he trusted his receivers. I'm not going to generalize that too many people are unfairly/harshly evaluating him. Because that is not the case. But if we put things in perspective if before the season started we were asked if we would settle for a qb who was accurate, had a good arm, good touch when required, splendid ball placement, was mobile, smart, hard working and good character, and had a good feel for the game would any of us reject the prospect as a starting qb? I can assure you not I! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchmurraydowntown Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Best QB we have had since Kelly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABillsFan Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 That was a third down play, so yeah the drive stalled. But that was the right read by him and can't fault him for the WR falling down. I wasn't arguing otherwise. I was hoping that he'd run for it instead. 20-20 hindsight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I think it was BADOL who said imagine this team with Matt Cassell as its starter with the way our defense has regressed....We would be lucky to have 4 wins up to this point. I presume it was said only after he first reminded us how much he knows about football and how often he has been right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABillsFan Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Why is EJ anything to do with this thread? I don't get it. Can we stop talking about EJ, mentioning EJ or comparing TT to EJ until such a time (if indeed it comes and I hope it doesn't) where he has to suit up again. I repeat what I have said before on Tyrod - he is playing better than anyone could have hoped for and is entrenched as our starter for 2016. He hasn't yet convinced me he is the long term future of the franchise but I am encouraged by his performances and his progress. The big thing I have been asking for was more use of the middle of the field and the last two weeks I have seen encouraging signs in that regard. I'd still like to see some more consistency in finding those intermediate 10-20 yard throws, especially on 3rd and medium type downs but I think you can see aspects of his game developing. That is a good sign. +1 Tyrod is the starter period. That should be the end of the discussion. There should be no mention of any backup sitting on the bench the entire game. Edited December 7, 2015 by NOVABillsFan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I think it was BADOL who said imagine this team with Matt Cassell as its starter with the way our defense has regressed....We would be lucky to have 4 wins up to this point. If we had a HC who had a philosophy of showcasing the talent instead of showcasing his scheme this team would be locked in a playoff position. This franchise has had a lot of bad luck, most of it due to its own ineptitude. We got lucky with the acquisition of a career backup who played beyond anyone's expectation. The big surprise isn't so much that he beat out the other qbs but it is how well he is playing. I blame the obtuse HC. Based on the damage he did with the Jets there was no bases to hire him. As far as I am concerned we are getting the low grade product that he was sent packing out of New York. With an average HC there would have been two games that could have been moved to the win column. RR was given a five year contract. WTF! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 If we had a HC who had a philosophy of showcasing the talent instead of showcasing his scheme this team would be locked in a playoff position. This franchise has had a lot of bad luck, most of it due to its own ineptitude. We got lucky with the acquisition of a career backup who played beyond anyone's expectation. The big surprise isn't so much that he beat out the other qbs but it is how well he is playing. I blame the obtuse HC. Based on the damage he did with the Jets there was no bases to hire him. As far as I am concerned we are getting the low grade product that he was sent packing out of New York. With an average HC there would have been two games that could have been moved to the win column. RR was given a five year contract. WTF! Except without Rex we probably don't sign Taylor. And while there is PLENTY I blame Rex Ryan for this year, his problem, as he said, was more about sticking to what the Bills did rather than instituting his own scheme. We have seen his scheme in two at most games. And the one game we saw it they were great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I presume it was said only after he first reminded us how much he knows about football and how often he has been right. He often reminds me how stupid I am. There really is no need to remind me on how stupid I am. Forrest Gump, my remedial arithmetic instructor, tells me all the time that I am stupid. When I asked him why he bothers working with me on my numbers he said he does it because compared to me he feels smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloHokie13 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 He often reminds me how stupid I am. There really is no need to remind me on how stupid I am. Forrest Gump, my remedial arithmetic instructor, tells me all the time that I am stupid. When I asked him why he bothers working with me on my numbers he said he does it because compared to me he feels smart. My mama always said 'Stupid is as stupid does.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Except without Rex we probably don't sign Taylor. And while there is PLENTY I blame Rex Ryan for this year, his problem, as he said, was more about sticking to what the Bills did rather than instituting his own scheme. We have seen his scheme in two at most games. And the one game we saw it they were great. Um, except, they didn't stick to "what the Bills did" on D. What (besides Rex saying so) would lead you to think they did? The sight of Kyle Williams or Mario Williams dropping back into coverage maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I disagree completely. I think 95% of the people on this website are simply objective football fans who form honest opinions about what they see on the football field and hold no biases whatsoever. I didn't think EJ Manuel looked a starting NFL QB to me and was labeled a "hater" for it. I am encouraged by what I see from Taylor and have been called a "fanboi" for it. Guess what? I was right in both instances. If people were discouraged by what they saw in JP Losman after 2007, were they called "haters" around here? Honest question. How come no one ever calls out Seantrel Henderson "haters" after he has a poor performance? Am I just a Ronald Darby "fanboi?" Also something occurred to me yesterday- they showed Manuel on the sidelines and he was genuinely cheering on Taylor and I thought to myself, man I like this guy's attitude. I got so caught up in arguing with the nuts on this website that I maybe started to associate my frustration with them with EJ Manuel himself. I like Manuel a lot, he really seems like a good guy. JHFC, why do you have to jump into every thread and bash EJ? Can't you help yourself? Stop it. I beg you. Stop it. It's an older crusade than Joan of Arc's. Jesus. Give it up man. It's tiring, old, stale. We get it. We got it about 2,000 of your posts ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Maybe Badol needs to always remind people how stupid they are because they are so stupid they need constant reminders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Maybe Badol needs to always remind people how stupid they are because they are so stupid they need constant reminders. The truly stupid never heed the reminders, so why waste the effort... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOVABillsFan Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Maybe Badol needs to always remind people how stupid they are because they are so stupid they need constant reminders. Isn't that DC Tom's job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Maybe Badol needs to always remind people how stupid they are because they are so stupid they need constant reminders. Um, except, they didn't stick to "what the Bills did" on D. What (besides Rex saying so) would lead you to think they did? The sight of Kyle Williams or Mario Williams dropping back into coverage maybe? That dropping back thing is so stupid. To complain about. They do it a few plays each a game. The thing they stuck to is rushing four guys and playing off the man in coverage. The only game the whole season we saw the Rex Ryan defense the whole game was the second game against the Pats, and it worked. Why the hell he didn't do that the whole game yesterday and especially against the Chiefs was mind boggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Still better than EJ, still the best QB on the roster, but he surely isn't the long term answer at QB. I really wanted to believe, but he is another checkdown or scramble guy that can't consistently read the defense and throw down the field. It's frustrating. Still think this way? Next time wait for a larger sample size it would serve you well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPicc2114 Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Tyrod is 4th in QBR (the stat that no one thinks means anything) Behind Carson Palmer, Big Ben, Andy Dalton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnC Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Except without Rex we probably don't sign Taylor. And while there is PLENTY I blame Rex Ryan for this year, his problem, as he said, was more about sticking to what the Bills did rather than instituting his own scheme. We have seen his scheme in two at most games. And the one game we saw it they were great. Was Rex the reason why TT signed with us? I don't buy it. Taylor wanted to be a starter in this league. He surveyed his options and the best situation for him to compete for a starting job was with the Bills. Did it make it more enticing to go to a team in which he knew the HC? Probably so. But the main criteria for him to sign with a team was which team gave him a legitimate chance to compete for a starting job. It was with Buffalo. The free agent player acted in his own best interest. If you watched the same games as I do you will have to acknowledge that this defense has regressed. Hughes, Dareus and Mario were three anchor players for us. They certainly are not playing as well this year compared to last year and before. Under Rex this team is one of the most penalized teams in the league. Under Rex this team has not played with the same level of discipline and intelligence as it has before his arrival. Coaching matters. The Jets are a demonstrably better team without RR. The Bills are less than what they could have been with the current boisterous HC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Was Rex the reason why TT signed with us? I don't buy it. Taylor wanted to be a starter in this league. He surveyed his options and the best situation for him to compete for a starting job was with the Bills. Did it make it more enticing to go to a team in which he knew the HC? Probably so. But the main criteria for him to sign with a team was which team gave him a legitimate chance to compete for a starting job. It was with Buffalo. The free agent player acted in his own best interest. If you watched the same games as I do you will have to acknowledge that this defense has regressed. Hughes, Dareus and Mario were three anchor players for us. They certainly are not playing as well this year compared to last year and before. Under Rex this team is one of the most penalized teams in the league. Under Rex this team has not played with the same level of discipline and intelligence as it has before his arrival. Coaching matters. The Jets are a demonstrably better team without RR. The Bills are less than what they could have been with the current boisterous HC. I clearly recall hearing Rex insisted Whaley sign Taylor. Supposedly Whaley said he had the same idea, but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Was Rex the reason why TT signed with us? I don't buy it. Taylor wanted to be a starter in this league. He surveyed his options and the best situation for him to compete for a starting job was with the Bills. Did it make it more enticing to go to a team in which he knew the HC? Probably so. But the main criteria for him to sign with a team was which team gave him a legitimate chance to compete for a starting job. It was with Buffalo. The free agent player acted in his own best interest. If you watched the same games as I do you will have to acknowledge that this defense has regressed. Hughes, Dareus and Mario were three anchor players for us. They certainly are not playing as well this year compared to last year and before. Under Rex this team is one of the most penalized teams in the league. Under Rex this team has not played with the same level of discipline and intelligence as it has before his arrival. Coaching matters. The Jets are a demonstrably better team without RR. The Bills are less than what they could have been with the current boisterous HC. First, the defense definitely regressed and I think Ryan has had a terrible season coaching it. But the problem has been, IMO, that he hasn't played Rex Ryan defense. He got away from it. The only game we saw it for the whole game was the Pats game. Even the games we played well, like the Colts and Fins, etc, it wasn't the Rex Ryan scheme we have seen for six years out of him. It's his fault but it wasn't his scheme that let us down, it was him trying to let our guys play differently. Rex tried to trade for him while on the Jets. That's now a known fact. The reason he did was because Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, and a couple other players on the Ravens that Rex loves and keeps in contact with told him over and over how good Taylor was. That's why Rex thought he was good, it wasn't from watching film, and that is why he wanted him. Taylor had to know that, and was told that when he was negotiating with the Bills. The Bills had already traded for a veteran and had a #1 pick still here. He came in large part because he knew the coach loved him (as well as a few other reasons). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenhigh Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) Isn't that DC Tom's job? I find that I enjoy Tom's insults much more than Baldol's. They are somehow less insulting. Edited December 7, 2015 by Tenhigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 Interesting. Two TDs to the middle as well as three INTs. Maybe that's why Roman doesn't prefer to attack that area. Then again, the idea for the defense is to contest the middle the most. I'd like to see this graph for other QBs in the league as well. GO BILLS!!! I wonder if this is why clay was so open in the middle. They just gave it to him excepting him to go wide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted December 7, 2015 Share Posted December 7, 2015 I wonder if this is why clay was so open in the middle. They just gave it to him excepting him to go wide. Clay was so open because the safety followed Mulligan (Mulligan!) to the outside. It was a great play design and Mulligan sold it beautifully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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