Last Guy on the Bench Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 No.... he isn't. He is Managing Partner and President. Football Operations are these folks: David Wheat Chief Administrative Officer Scott Berchtold Sr. VP of Communications Marc Honan Sr. VP of Media & Content Jim Overdorf Sr. VP of Football Administration Gregg Brandon General Counsel Dan Evans VP of Information Technology Gretchen Geitter VP of Community Relations Andy Major VP Operations and Guest Experience Erica Muhleman VP Corporate Partnerships Bill Munson VP of Government Relations and External Affairs Tying it all together, M&T called and b*tched at one of them for not giving them a heads up and the Ops dept feel Whaley made them look bad. Now that actually makes sense, Yolo. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) I would hope not since the entire notion of 'Whaley going rogue' is laughably idiotic. He's the GENERAL MANAGER! His job is to CUT PLAYERS. As far as anyone here knows, he doesn't need to ask permission or seek counsel or inform the owner about what players get signed or cut. As someone pointed out above, we should be very happy we don't have a Dan Snyder like owner sticking his nose into football decisions. The Pegulas know how to operate large businesses from the top -- that is their skill set. They likely don't know **** about evaluating football talent and that's why like any good business owner, they empower their management team to make such decisions on their own. Leaving the semantics of the rogue issue aside (which is a minor point anyway), the issue seems to me to be that he didn't consilt the coaches. If a "football czar" with maximumum juice (like Donohoe) did it, it wouldn't be as big of an issue. But in this regime, Whaley doesn't appear to have that juice, judging from his near-death experience at the end of 2014 and the fact that the coach makes FAR more than him and is much more famous. That's at the root of this, I suspect. The fact that some in the organization on the other side of Whaley are going to the News to tell reporters about this is ... interesting. Remember that he did NOT get along with Marrone (who I still think was a decent coach who made a really bad decision on December 31), which also has me wondering. Everyone here hates Marrone, so that gets brushed off, but there's probably something there. The fact that Bucky Gleason (yes, I know ....) wrote two days ago that Whaley was lobbying for EJ also had me wondering. Edited September 2, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I think a larger part of the story is being missed here. Fred actually says that Whaley was dishonest the entire time he knew him and that he believes it was Whaley's decision. I am kind of wondering why Tim is not exploring that instead of the specific player move. Probably in that Whaley has always told him he wants him there. My boss tells me that all the time too but if I was informed otherwise one day I wouldn't blame my boss, I would blame myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HereComesTheReignAgain Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 For those of you that keep calling Brown a "fumble machine", guess who was tied for most fumbles by a RB in 2014... http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/most-fumbles-and-fumbles-lost/2014/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Now that actually makes sense, Yolo. Thanks. It is just a theory but that's what I think happened after reading all of TG's tweets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Leaving the semantics of the rogue issue aside (which is a minor point anyway), the issue seems to me to be that he didn't consilt the coaches. If a "football czar" with maximumum juice (like Donohoe) did it, it wouldn't be as big of an issue. But in this regime, Whaley doesn't appear to have that juice, judging from his near-death experience at the end of 2014 and the fact that the coach makes FAR more than him and is much more famous. That's at the root of this, I suspect. The fact that some in the organization on the other side of Whaley are going to the News to tell reporters about this is ... interesting. Remember that he did NOT get along with Marrone (who I still think was a decent coach who made a really bad decision on December 31), which also has me wondering. Everyone here hates Marrone, so that gets brushed off, but there's probably something there. The fact that Bucky Gleason (yes, I know ....) wrote two days ago that Whaley was lobbying for EJ also had me wondering. "Some coaches" were not in favor of the move was the term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Last Guy on the Bench Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Leaving the semantics of the rogue issue aside (which is a minor point anyway), the issue seems to me to be that he didn't consilt the coaches. If a "football czar" with maximumum juice (like Donohoe) did it, it wouldn't be as big of an issue. But in this regime, Whaley doesn't appear to have that juice, judging from his near-death experience at the end of 2014 and the fact that the coach makes FAR more than him and is much more famous. That's at the root of this, I suspect. The fact that some in the organization on the other side of Whaley are going to the News to tell reporters about this is ... interesting. Remember that he did NOT get along with Marrone (who I still think was a decent coach who made a really bad decision on December 31), which also has me wondering. Everyone here hates Marrone, so that gets brushed off, but there's probably something there. The fact that Bucky Gleason (yes, I know ....) wrote two days ago that Whaley was lobbying for EJ also had me wondering. I can't see any way Whaley is making any cuts (let alone Fred) without consulting the coaches. That would be career suicide, even for a Tsar, which he is not, as you point out. I think the theory about the other departments like marketing makes a lot more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) For those of you that keep calling Brown a "fumble machine", guess who was tied for most fumbles by a RB in 2014... http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats/most-fumbles-and-fumbles-lost/2014/ I do think that there are fumbles and "fumbles." Fumbling out of bounds or as you hit the ground and bobble it a bit before recovering are different from Brown, who going back to his Eagles days suffered from the glaring open field strip. Jackson lost none of his fumbles last year, and he's never been a guy who has a rep for the running strip fumble. Edited September 2, 2015 by dave mcbride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Dog Named Kelso Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Probably in that Whaley has always told him he wants him there. My boss tells me that all the time too but if I was informed otherwise one day I wouldn't blame my boss, I would blame myself. I guess if I was a reporter I would probably be questioning other former Bills to see if they had the same perception of Whaley not focused on a player move, while unpopular, is not going to be reversed. I think that would be a bigger story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I do think that there are fumbles and "fumbles." Fumbling out of bounds or as you the ground and bobble it a bit before recovering are different from Brown, who going back to his Eagles days suffered from the glaring open field strip. Jackson lost none of his fumbles last year, and he's never been a guy who has a rep for the running strip fumble. Brown has fumbled once in the last two years and there is no way he should have lost it. Scott Chandler had it in both of his hands, a simple recovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Apparently Mr. Graham has gone a step further, it wasn't even the coaches who disagreed: Tim Graham @ByTimGraham He deviated from the wishes of football ops and made the decision without any heads up. #GoingRogue Eventually Tim will reveal it was the mail room guy who was left out and he's pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Probably in that Whaley has always told him he wants him there. My boss tells me that all the time too but if I was informed otherwise one day I wouldn't blame my boss, I would blame myself. Exactly. I said the same earlier in the thread. Your boss always wants you around, until he doesn't. And when he doesn't some people take that as he"lied". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Eventually Tim will reveal it was the mail room guy who was left out and he's pissed. Wrong, it was the guy at the Bills Pro Shop who spent his lunch hour pressing extra number 22 jerseys only to find out Fred was released. Haven't read all 32 pages, but it's hilarious the lengths some posters go to so they can keep up the narrative that the Bills are a dysfunctional franchise... We have a great owner who doesn't meddle with roster decisions, a GM willing to make unpopular moves to try and get this team into the playoffs, and a coach who is willing to cast aside salaries and play the best man (starting Tyrod). But yah, let's keep pretending this is the Wilson-Levy-Jauron era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The logical guess is that football ops is Russ Brandon.Oh the irony,considering your recent Russ Brandon/football decisions tirade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Apparently Mr. Graham has gone a step further, it wasn't even the coaches who disagreed: Tim Graham @ByTimGraham He deviated from the wishes of football ops and made the decision without any heads up. #GoingRogue Tim sure can backpedal after he completely makes up a story, can't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 It really does all come down to the marketing folks being upset they can no longer use their poster boy, doesn't it? #roguemyass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34-78-83 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 "@ByTimGraham: He deviated from the wishes of football ops and made the decision without any heads up. https://t.co/QJSbbUMTev" Confirmation (as if it were still needed) that Whaley's unilateral decision to cut Fred was not a football decision, but a personal crusade. Very cowardly for a GM to cut players, especially such a prominent one, secretly against the wishes of the coach. Sleazy overstepping like this makes one wonder if Marrone's decision to walk wasn't as unwarrented as it seemed. You are truly a treat negativo! What a great schtik for this site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 No.... he isn't. He is Managing Partner and President. Football Operations are these folks: David Wheat Chief Administrative Officer Scott Berchtold Sr. VP of Communications Marc Honan Sr. VP of Media & Content Jim Overdorf Sr. VP of Football Administration Gregg Brandon General Counsel Dan Evans VP of Information Technology Gretchen Geitter VP of Community Relations Andy Major VP Operations and Guest Experience Erica Muhleman VP Corporate Partnerships Bill Munson VP of Government Relations and External Affairs Tying it all together, M&T called and b*tched at one of them for not giving them a heads up and the Ops dept feel Whaley made them look bad. These people complaining wouldn't merit a Graham tweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Tim sure can backpedal after he completely makes up a story, can't he? Yup. He pissed someone off in the marketing department who went right to Tim Graham. These people complaining wouldn't merit a Graham tweet. And yet he tweeted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry Jabber Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Don't get me wrong, I love Freddie just like the next Bills fan, but he's been declining and hasn't been able to stay healthy. With Freddie bonding with the community the way he did and always being a selfless player prolonged his career here in Buffalo. Otherwise, Freddie would have been out of here a few years ago. I hate to say it, but that's the harsh reality of professional sports, it's what have you done for me lately. Just look at Lee Evans, fans were pissed when the Bills traded him, but what happened, he played for the Ravens for one year, then was out of the league the next year. No player wants someone to tell them "your time is done," they would rather walk away on their own terms, but that can't always happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 "Some coaches" were not in favor of the move was the term. Do you think Graham would name Ryan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 These people complaining wouldn't merit a Graham tweet. Far less has merited tweets from Timmah. I believe he has a source close to Brandon, who probably told him the marketing folks were pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobobonators Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Do you think Graham would name Ryan? I wish Graham would name someone already and stop being so vague about everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 "Some coaches" were not in favor of the move was the term. No. Read through his twitter feed (which I just did). Coaches, people in football ops, etc. means more than "some coaches." To be honest, I'm going to move on because I realize I'm arguing with people that think Whaley is a good gm. I think he's run of the mill -- good on defensive talent; lousy on the qb -- and also a bureaucratic infighter. He might be better at the player side of things than his predecessors, but that's not saying much. But if the team gets to 8-8 (the Bills real record last year if that Pats game had mattered at all), all of the sudden he's a great roster builder. I need to see a lot more than that before arriving at this conclusion. But this board features a lot of people who are inherently pro-management, so the conversation has predictably drifted to the point where it is now ("hard-headed" pro-Whaley folks snarking at the Jackson loyalists while also resorting to the cheapest trick in the book, blaming the media). Anyway, I thought it was a dumb decision to cut Jackson for more than one reason. I'll leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Do you think Graham would name Ryan? Oh my god, he would be the first to tweet it. That would be Christmas for Timmah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Yup. He pissed someone off in the marketing department who went right to Tim Graham. And yet he tweeted it. The term "football ops" would never be the marketing department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Brown has fumbled once in the last two years and there is no way he should have lost it. Scott Chandler had it in both of his hands, a simple recovery. He should have had it, but there was luck involved. The key point is that it was open field strip. That is EXACTLY what happened when he played for the Eagles. That's why he was considered such a fumbler there. Hell, don't rely on me -- just ask Rex Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Far less has merited tweets from Timmah. I believe he has a source close to Brandon, who probably told him the marketing folks were pissed. especially when he followed it right up with the tweet about M&T's campaign being embarrassing because they didn't have a heads up. Edited September 2, 2015 by YoloinOhio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I love that the net of this thread is that Tim Graham is an idiot who sucks at his job. What a jerk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
negativo Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 No. Read through his twitter feed (which I just did). Coaches, people in football ops, etc. means more than "some coaches." To be honest, I'm going to move on because I realize I'm arguing with people that think Whaley is a good gm. I think he's run of the mill -- good on defensive talent; lousy on the qb -- and also a bureaucratic infighter. He might be better at the player side of things than his predecessors, but that's not saying much. But if the team gets to 8-8 (the Bills real record last year if that Pats game had mattered at all), all of the sudden he's a great roster builder. I need to see a lot more than that before arriving at this conclusion. But this board features a lot of people who are inherently pro-management, so the conversation has predictably drifted to the point where it is now ("hard-headed" pro-Whaley folks snarking at the Jackson loyalists while also resorting to the cheapest trick in the book, blaming the media). Anyway, I thought it was a dumb decision to cut Jackson for more than one reason. I'll leave it at that. "Pro-management", "pro-Whaley" posters are doing the job they were hired to do. Social media damage control is all business, and after a classless move like unceremoniously dumping the face of the franchise against the coaches wishes you can bet they are in all-hands-on-deck mode.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KGun12TD Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 What did he want to hear, exactly? Fred seems like a smart guy. I'm sure he can figure this out without Whaley telling him there's no room for an 34-year-old RB/locker room cheerleader when other, more important, players need to be extended. Common man. THIS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Do you think Graham would name Ryan? GG, given Brandon's connection to Marrone, I wouldn't be surprised if he and Whaley aren't the greatest of friends. They can work together, of course, so who really knows. But I doubt they hang out with each other ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 The term "football ops" would never be the marketing department. VP of Communications and VP of Corporate Relations are part of the Footbal Ops department, according to the Bills website. That's basically the PR department. Pretty close and they would have dealt with a complaint from M&T about Fred being cut after they had made an ad already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 "Pro-management", "pro-Whaley" posters are doing the job they were hired to do. Social media damage control is all business, and after a classless move like unceremoniously dumping the face of the franchise against the coaches wishes you can bet they are in all-hands-on-deck mode.. Wait, wait...seriously? You're going on record here as saying that you believe that folks that think Whaley is a good GM are plants hired by the team to say this stuff on a message board? Thanks for that...I now know that I should never again take anything you post here seriously. VP of Communications and VP of Corporate Relations are part of the Footbal Ops department, according to the Bills website. That's basically the PR department. Pretty close and they would have dealt with a complaint from M&T about Fred being cut after they had made an ad already. I really do think you're onto something here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 No. Read through his twitter feed (which I just did). Coaches, people in football ops, etc. means more than "some coaches." To be honest, I'm going to move on because I realize I'm arguing with people that think Whaley is a good gm. I think he's run of the mill -- good on defensive talent; lousy on the qb -- and also a bureaucratic infighter. He might be better at the player side of things than his predecessors, but that's not saying much. But if the team gets to 8-8 (the Bills real record last year if that Pats game had mattered at all), all of the sudden he's a great roster builder. I need to see a lot more than that before arriving at this conclusion. But this board features a lot of people who are inherently pro-management, so the conversation has predictably drifted to the point where it is now ("hard-headed" pro-Whaley folks snarking at the Jackson loyalists while also resorting to the cheapest trick in the book, blaming the media). Anyway, I thought it was a dumb decision to cut Jackson for more than one reason. I'll leave it at that. I read through his Twitter feed and have been. He's been backtracking. And his word choice is very telling. He's not talking about anyone that needed to know. Key people in administration and football ops (very likely Russ Brandon) do not need to be told of cuts. That is not their job. I would have kept Fred Jackson, too. For what it's worth. There is not a chance in hell that Rex was not on board with this. He's the only coach that matters. I'm absolutely positive that Roman was consulted. He may not have been on board, who knows, but a GM has to make tough decisions. And again, I would have kept Fred. But I understand why it was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 I really do think you're onto something here. It makes sense in my head, especially with how Graham followed up the tweet of "going rogue" with the one about launching an ad and it being embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 NFL GM's seem in general to be phony pieces of ****. I was listening to a podcast (The Church of What's Happening Now with Joey Diaz) with Kyle Turley and he was talking about his departure from the Saints and how the general manager would go into the locker room and be all buddy buddy with the players after wins. But then that same GM would bash those players in negotiations to not only their own agent (Which is just business kind of fair) but to other players agents and pretty much anyone in the organization. After listening to that and knowing there really isn't any loyalty in the NFL, I am not surprised to see Whaley be that kind of guy. But as long as Whaley is making the right calls and doing his job well, as a fan you have to like him on some level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 VP of Communications and VP of Corporate Relations are part of the Footbal Ops department, according to the Bills website. That's basically the PR department. Pretty close and they would have dealt with a complaint from M&T about Fred being cut after they had made an ad already. Good point. As i say above, i thiink there's more to the marrone story than we know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Oh my god, he would be the first to tweet it. That would be Christmas for Timmah. Not if the source is close to Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 He should have had it, but there was luck involved. The key point is that it was open field strip. That is EXACTLY what happened when he played for the Eagles. That's why he was considered such a fumbler there. Hell, don't rely on me -- just ask Rex Ryan. It was an open field strip but it wasn't like he was being careless with the ball. He can't cough the ball up, that is for sure. But Fred fumbled 5 times last year in about 200 touches. Brown has fumbled once in the last two with about 140 touches or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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