birdog1960 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Is Fred a Top Ten RB? I don't believe so. how many rb's in the nfl? gm's? i'd see fred is top 30%. is whaley? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 this. there are significant implications in this move if whaley went rogue. the bills don't need a power struggle. there's plenty of smoke here. I expect there's at least a small fire. but we have posters here ever ready to quell any and all insurrections against bills management even when it's blatantly obvious they're incompetent (like the last 15 years). almost makes you wonder if some are astroturf posters as opposed to grassroots. I'd rarely considered such a thing in the past, but I'm starting to wonder. I stopped in at the official site (a real shithole, btw) and I think that one's definitely manipulated, even in the way it's moderated. It's much better here, but it wouldn't surprise me if the Bills PR department had a few plants making the rounds on private sites. It makes sense to use social media to influence opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 ya think? I don't. if I were the pegulas, I wouldn't publicly turn the organization upside down over this. they would look foolish as would the entire organization. What's more foolish, an employee of your company being insubordinate and you as the owner doing something about it? Or an employee of a company being insubordinate and you as the owner do nothing? You'd look like you don't know how to run a company if employees are allowed to do whatever the hell they want and have no consequences for it. If it got out that Whaley was truly "rogue" it would make the Pegulas look very bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 It's a fine analogy. Not all analogies are meant to mirror the entire situation, some are to shed light on one specific, often nuanced, aspect of it.No, it's sheer stupidity. No radio program director tells his disc jockeys to trash clients on air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mickey Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 He's also the guy who was instrumental in building the best defense in the NFL and bringing McCoy to Buffalo by trading damaged goods. But yeah. Infantile. He was also instrumental in drafting EJ Manuel and needlessly trading up for a WR in a year loaded with good WR's. He has been with the Bills for four years with out a single post season appearance. An unqualified success he is not. He has made good decisions and bad ones. This is a bad one, in my opinion, simply because I think Fred still has gas in the tank and is a much better RB than Brown. As for Fred's public statement that Whaley wasn't honest with him, there is no way in the world I would believe that Fred is a liar. If he says Whaley wasn't honest with him, I believe him. I worry that being branded as dishonest by a player with the reputation of Fred Jackson will not help Whaley attract future free agents. That said, Fred will sign with someone and most likely prove that he can still get the job done and we have a pretty talented backfield, if not a deep one, even without Fred. We'll all live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 What's more foolish, an employee of your company being insubordinate and you as the owner doing something about it? Or an employee of a company being insubordinate and you as the owner do nothing? You'd look like you don't know how to run a company if employees are allowed to do whatever the hell they want and have no consequences for it. If it got out that Whaley was truly "rogue" it would make the Pegulas look very bad. exactly. it is out. it would be stupid to confirm it. it would make more sense to wait til next year to make a change. here's to hoping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) exactly. it is out. it would be stupid to confirm it. it would make more sense to wait til next year to make a change. here's to hoping! Huh? Why wait? They've wronged Fred, they fired an employee without permission from the owner, surely you make that situation right by cutting ties with Whaley and rehiring Fred. Edited September 2, 2015 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdog1960 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Huh? Why wait? They've wronged Fred, surely you make that situation right by cutting ties with Whaley and rehiring Fred. what is the higher priority? fred's job or the pegula's reputation as savvy owners? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) A few thoughts on the topic: - 1st off GG is right, it is bad business angering the sponsors. I don't think that people fully grasp the math but if they spend $1.5M a year that is the equivalent of 2,307 $650 season tickets (of which the home team gets 60%). If you can imagine ownership will not be happy to see them walk especially if they replace them with someone spending half. Just an example and I don't know the numbers but that is headache that will be dealt with directly by Russ and the Pegulas. -Second, Whaley went out on a limb here if it is true that he didn't have the Pegula's blessing. He just put himself out there in a position to be the fall guy. You released a beloved franchise icon for a guy that will, in all likelihood be your 4th RB (Brown) on the last year of his deal. The only way that this can work out is if Brown's play is noticeably superior to Freddy because the ancillary benefits of having Fred outweigh that of Brown. Was it worth risking your job to keep Bryce over Freddy? This decision isn't looked upon favorably by the players or the fans. The media is all over the story and it is making life difficult for the owners (backlash). If things don't go well the fingers will point in Whaley's direction regardless of the limited contributions of Fred or Bryce. If they win it won't matter but was it worth the risk? if he feels like its the right decision, it was the decision he should make. that he made it despite knowing it would be controversial definitely underscores how he feels. to your point on the finances - have you ever, in your time working with sports teams, seen one make a roster move based on an upcoming ad campaign from a sponsor? or is that a situation where the GM would normally say "i understand this makes your job harder, but hopefully it results in wins and thats my job, and will make your job a cake walk if im right more often than not." Edited September 2, 2015 by NoSaint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 A few thoughts on the topic: - 1st off GG is right, it is bad business angering the sponsors. I don't think that people fully grasp the math but if they spend $1.5M a year that is the equivalent of 2,307 $650 season tickets (of which the home team gets 60%). If you can imagine ownership will not be happy to see them walk especially if they replace them with someone spending half. Just an example and I don't know the numbers but that is headache that will be dealt with directly by Russ and the Pegulas. -Second, Whaley went out on a limb here if it is true that he didn't have the Pegula's blessing. He just put himself out there in a position to be the fall guy. You released a beloved franchise icon for a guy that will, in all likelihood be your 4th RB (Brown) on the last year of his deal. The only way that this can work out is if Brown's play is noticeably superior to Freddy because the ancillary benefits of having Fred outweigh that of Brown. Was it worth risking your job to keep Bryce over Freddy? This decision isn't looked upon favorably by the players or the fans. The media is all over the story and it is making life difficult for the owners (backlash). If things don't go well the fingers will point in Whaley's direction regardless of the limited contributions of Fred or Bryce. If they win it won't matter but was it worth the risk? Clients may be pissed but you aren't advocating that player decisions be controlled by advertising clients? Like I said earlier you roll the dice when you use players as spokespeople. Especially one that is approaching the end of his career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Also, after having 2 nights to sleep on it I like it even less. Doug Whaley can kiss my ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 what is the higher priority? fred's job or the pegula's reputation as savvy owners? How the heck do they look like savvy owners when they let an employee fire another employee without their permission? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 it's playoffs or bust for whaley. the writing is on the wall for him after the failed attempt by the pegula's to bring on polian, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 How the heck do they look like savvy owners when they let an employee fire another employee without their permission? You really think business owners sign off on every individual hire and fire in a billion dollar business? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob's House Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 No, it's sheer stupidity. No radio program director tells his disc jockeys to trash clients on air. I'll let him speak for himself, but I think the point flew over your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 Maybe I missed this somewhere is this discussion but if Whaley went "rogue" and just made this decision without informing the Pegulas, his boss's, wouldn't he be fired and Fred offered his job back? whaley publically stated the Pegulas were consulted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CodeMonkey Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 What did he want to hear, exactly? Fred seems like a smart guy. I'm sure he can figure this out without Whaley telling him there's no room for an 34-year-old RB/locker room cheerleader when other, more important, players need to be extended. Common man. Too bad It`s over deal with it. Just like any other player. He made a boat load of money. Sour grapes. EVERYBODY gets old. You guys wash Whaleys balls even better that the MNF crew wash Brady's when he is playing. Well done! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan1959 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 whaley publically stated the Pegulas were consulted. Also, Whaley and Ryan met with Fred together...pretty rogue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Cubed Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) You really think business owners sign off on every individual hire and fire in a billion dollar business? Consulted, with a fan favorite like Fred, yes. Kept in the loop about how the roster is shaping up, yes. Edited September 2, 2015 by Wayne Cubed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted September 2, 2015 Share Posted September 2, 2015 good guess. it's a situation like this that led to ryan's and the jets demise in new York. Slight difference in that John Idzik--a financial guy--was making personnel decisions after being given final say over the 53-man roster AFTER Rex was already in the job for 3 years. Here, Rex took the job knowing that Whaley--a personnel guy--was going to have final say over the 53-man roster. I would say that the two situations are very, very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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