Why I think Marrone should be fired...

[jester43]

I'm probably too optimist about this team.

lol...yeah probably. cbiscuit, refresh my memory...aren't you one of the guys who's always piling on the media around here for being too mean?

 

first you don't have to "call for" marrone to go if they don't make the playoffs...he will of course be gone if they don't, no matter who the qb is.

 

(unless terry "what-has-he-done-wrong" pegula is even more batshcidt crazy than i think he is, which is possible.)

 

but if you are looking for heads to roll, it should be for not having a better option at back-up ready when the season started. they sign orton after the pre-season's over and now they're starting him? did they not see EJ at all last year? how in the world did they not see until now that they needed another good QB? it is mind boggling.

 

the only real question is WHO is responsible for this fiasco...it's not totally clear, whether it was Whaley who insisted EJ not be provided any competition or Marrone. Or maybe they both wanted it that way, in which case they should both go. I am not convinced Russ Brandon wasn't involved, as I think he is still way more involved in personnel than people think. And really, what Whaley supposed to do about that? Tell his boss to buzz off?

 

Thank god Marrone had the balls to recognize the obvious: They reached badly for this guy and he's getting them beat. The bills would be 4-0 right now with any one of at least 20 other QBs on the roster (there are at least 2 dozen guys I'd rather have) and if you don't want to lose the locker room you can't ignore that.

 

you watch these guys play their asses off and go win in detroit now.

Edited September 30, 2014 by jester43

[John Cocktosten]

[dave mcbride]

 

 

I just see this as Kelly Holcomb all over again. And I think EJ has more potential than JP. Mularkey got fired and then the Bills actually got a decent season out of JP.

 

EJ certainly has a lot of blame to shoulder. But a lot of this offense has regressed since Gailey left. The oline. Stevie Johnson looks like the guy he was under Gailey and not what he was last year in SF. Spiller was one of he best weapons in the NFL under Chan.

 

Why is it not crazy to think that maybe coaching is holding this team back?

Why does he have more potential than Losman? Losman had a better arm and threw a far nicer deep ball. Plus he was reasonably mobile. Manuel certainly has a good arm too, but it's not Losman's. They both completely suck for other reasons, of course.

[GunnerBill]

I think Hackett is as big a problem as EJ I really do. I think we can be competitive in this weak division this year.... I don't think it is beyond the realms of possibility we win the division with a level of QB play we got from EJ in weeks 1 and 2. We wouldn't win a game with the elvel we got in weeks 3 and 4, but if Orton can give us week 1 and 2 like production that might be good enough. But I'd be surprised if this team can go any better than that with Hackett as offensive co-ordinator. Marrone I have no real problem with - I think he is single minded and determined and has a plan... but his loyalty to Hackett may be his undoing.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Your love for EJ is unbelievable. Fire an HC for benching him after a horrific game? Good god Biscuit, get it together.

 

CJ stinks. SJ13 had 3 good years with Fitz because he was the only NFL WR on the team those years.

 

You may have more respect going 4-12 with EJ, but I have more respect for Marrone being a man, saying EJ isn't playing well enough, and having the stones to make a change, when he knows it's going to be a media firestorm.

 

ALSO

 

Norv Turner stinks. Like really bad. Ruined a Chargers team that had the most talent on both sides of the ball for 3 years. Shanny has sucked ever since he had a QB not named Elway. Morhinweg actively lost the Jets a game by calling a stupid timeout that he actually couldn't even do.

 

Hackett's greatest fault is what? Getting open receivers that the QB can't hit?

Come on. You need to get a grip.

Bailing at 2-2 and tied for first seems way too early for me. What if Orton plays like Orton? When do you go back to EJ?

Lets wait until we are completely out of it to make the move. What a joke.

This is my nomination for the worst thread of 2014. I've had previous nominations, but I'm changing my answer.

Seconded.

They were in first with EJ.

 

Did you see the list of proven NFL OCs other Young Qbs had? We gave EJ Hackett Jr.

They were in first with Orton too....and the midget trainer too

[billsfan1959]

I am not in the camp that has asserted from the beginning that EJ will never be an NFL QB and is now officially a bust. I am also not in the camp that has blinders on when it comes to deficiencies in his game. IMO, he has all of the physical tools necessary to be a good NFL QB and I believe there have been a number of factors that have limited his development. While I personally think that his failure to progress this season is not entirely his fault, the fact remains that he has not - in fact, it is obvious that he has regressed over the last two weeks. I think Marrone made the right move for this team at this moment.

 

I do not agree with the OP; however I understand his sentiment. I certainly am not going to ridicule his opinion. I feel bad for EJ because I do think there have been extenuating circumstances regarding his development - and, personally, I find a real lack of decency in those few posters who seem to take real joy in his failure because of their overwhelming need to show everyone else how smart they are.

 

I have no idea how Orton will do. I think there are real concerns about this offense outside of the QB position. Perhaps his skill set will be better suited to overcome them. As I did with EJ, I wish him the best.

[peterpan]

I want him fired for bailing on the guy he selected after less than 16 starts.

 

Why should we ever trust him to draft and develop a qb again?

 

I dont think 'he' selected him however, the fact that Marrone can admit when a QB stinks, and move one, is SOOOOO REFRESHING. I'm sick and tired of watching Losman Trent Holcomb etc get 2-3 times as many starts as they deserved.

 

The ONLY thing EJ has done to deserve a starting spot is get drafted in the 1st round - and even then I think the Bills are the only team in the NFL stupid enough to take him that early. There is absolutely NO reason to leave EJ in there. None.

[maddenboy]

I want him fired for bailing on the guy he selected after less than 16 starts.

 

 

Where is it written that a QB, or any player, gets X amount of time to develop?

 

(I have said in other posts on this topic that) This is NOT year 2 of a 3 year plan. This is year 1 of a 1 year plan.

 

Marrone has a responsibility to all 53 guys. To Win Now. Period. If a guy is holding that plan back, then that guy needs to be put aside for the next man up.

[peterpan]

he [EJ] has all of the physical tools necessary to be a good NFL QB and I believe there have been a number of factors that have limited his development.

 

Why do people always say this? EJ has terrible footwork, a timid and jerky throwing motion, and horrific accuracy. Are those not 'physical tools'???

 

Or do you just mean he is big and tall? Well there are lots of big and tall people that are not NFL Quarterbacks.

Edited September 30, 2014 by peterpan

[Homey D. Clown]

Your love for EJ is unbelievable. Fire an HC for benching him after a horrific game? Good god Biscuit, get it together.

 

CJ stinks. SJ13 had 3 good years with Fitz because he was the only NFL WR on the team those years.

 

You may have more respect going 4-12 with EJ, but I have more respect for Marrone being a man, saying EJ isn't playing well enough, and having the stones to make a change, when he knows it's going to be a media firestorm.

 

ALSO

 

Norv Turner stinks. Like really bad. Ruined a Chargers team that had the most talent on both sides of the ball for 3 years. Shanny has sucked ever since he had a QB not named Elway. Morhinweg actively lost the Jets a game by calling a stupid timeout that he actually couldn't even do.

 

Hackett's greatest fault is what? Getting open receivers that the QB can't hit?

 

 

I couldn't have said it better... it seems all of the EJ apologists want to blame hackett, the game plan, and every other facet of the game, when, in fact, it was EJ himself who couldn't hit the ground if he was dropped out of a plane. At one point it was so bad, he nearly got Woods killed again for the 2nd week in a row. Please with some logic how an offensive play that was called results in a poorly thrown checkdown?

[C.Biscuit97]

I dont think 'he' selected him however, the fact that Marrone can admit when a QB stinks, and move one, is SOOOOO REFRESHING. I'm sick and tired of watching Losman Trent Holcomb etc get 2-3 times as many starts as they deserved.

 

The ONLY thing EJ has done to deserve a starting spot is get drafted in the 1st round - and even then I think the Bills are the only team in the NFL stupid enough to take him that early. There is absolutely NO reason to leave EJ in there. None.

 

How is it refreshing? It's the same move the Bills have done over and over again with young QBs. They pulled Losman his 2nd year and 4th year. They pulled Trent in his 3rd year. They pull RJ early.

 

This is the definition of a Bills move. A different move would have been to stay with the QB you deemed good enough to draft in the 1st round 2 years ago. SOS.

[bananathumb]

If you were Pegula, would you keep the Syracuse boys around?

 

Soon Pegula will be feeling the pressure to upgrade this disaster of a franchise.

[berndogg]

I think Marrone should be fired because he's a professional football coach and doesn't realize that it's within the rules to run a play on fourth down. I'm pretty sure he thinks "forced to punt" is a literal term. Benching EJ, however, was definitely the right move. Can't justify keeping someone in at any age at any position when they're giving you the worst produciton in the entire league. What's gonna happen one year to the next is so hard to predict for so many reasons, you have to go with the team that gives you the best chance to win on a week to week basis. EJ has proven definitively that he does not.

[tennesseeboy]

Marrone will sinknorvswim on his win loss record. If we don't make the playoffs I can see majorvchanges so far the present group looks bad. Bad drafting, bad trading, bad negotiating bad on the field and off. I personallymthink the bills have what it takes if they getvtheircact together soon. If not i do not see the new owners letting this bunch continue.

[GG]

How is it refreshing? It's the same move the Bills have done over and over again with young QBs. They pulled Losman his 2nd year and 4th year. They pulled Trent in his 3rd year. They pull RJ early.

 

Are you arguing those weren't the right moves?

 

I think the beef should be with Bills front office & scouts being g-d awful in evaluating QB talent.

[Hazed and Amuzed]

Starting Orton is a can't lose scenario for Marrone. If Orton kills it he looks like a genius, if Orton gets killed he blames Whaley for not giving him the tools he needs to win. So he's either a Hero in Buffalo or he points fingers in his next job interview.

[BuffaloRebound]

Props to Marrone for pulling the plug on Manuel now, but if it was my job on the line, I would've been going ape-$#!% for another QB the second Kolb got hurt. If you knew that you might pull the plug this early, I don't understand why we weren't more aggressive going after QB's in the off-season, whether it be the draft or free agency. Probably could've got Bridgewater or Carr for the Kuandjio pick + the Bryce Brown pick.

[C.Biscuit97]

Why does he have more potential than Losman? Losman had a better arm and threw a far nicer deep ball. Plus he was reasonably mobile. Manuel certainly has a good arm too, but it's not Losman's. They both completely suck for other reasons, of course.

 

Through 14 games of real game action for both players:

 

Manuel - 256 for 437 (58.6%), 2,810 yards (6.4 ypa) , 16 tds, 12 ints, 3 rushing tds, 7 fumbles, 3 Game winnng drives, 6-8 record as a starter. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/ManuEJ00.htm

 

Losman - 198 for 366 (54.1%), 2,254 yards (6.2 ypa), 12 tds, 12 ints, 1 rushing td, 0 GWDs, 9 fumbles, 3-10 W-L record. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/L/LosmJ.00/gamelog//

 

Losman also was older (he was 23 and didn't play as a rookie). He was far, far worse than EJ was. But the Bills stuck with him in his 3rd season and got better as the season progressed. I think EJ was off to a better start than Losman. That's why I wanted them to ride this out a little longer.

 

Kyle Orton completeld 51% of his passes and threw 9 tds and 13 ints through his 15 games. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/O/OrtoKy00.htm

 

Starting Orton is a can't lose scenario for Marrone. If Orton kills it he looks like a genius, if Orton gets killed he blames Whaley for not giving him the tools he needs to win. So he's either a Hero in Buffalo or he points fingers in his next job interview.

 

Obviously, I disagree. IF this blows up, I don't think he will ever get another head coaching job in the NFL. He pulled the plug on a 1st round QB he selected after 14 games. For a very average, more importantly, older option.

 

Are you arguing those weren't the right moves?

 

I think the beef should be with Bills front office & scouts being g-d awful in evaluating QB talent.

 

What I am arguing is why should we keep a coach who couldn't develop a QB he drafted and benched him after just 14 games. There's no way Whaley just drafted Manuel without Marrone being fully on board.

 

I couldn't have said it better... it seems all of the EJ apologists want to blame hackett, the game plan, and every other facet of the game, when, in fact, it was EJ himself who couldn't hit the ground if he was dropped out of a plane. At one point it was so bad, he nearly got Woods killed again for the 2nd week in a row. Please with some logic how an offensive play that was called results in a poorly thrown checkdown?

 

You're right. How could we ever question Nate Hackett? He was amazing in the Big East.

 

I'm sure Manuel won't have benefitted from learning under Chip Kelly, Andy Reid, Norv Turner.

[dave mcbride]

How is it refreshing? It's the same move the Bills have done over and over again with young QBs. They pulled Losman his 2nd year and 4th year. They pulled Trent in his 3rd year. They pull RJ early.

 

This is the definition of a Bills move. A different move would have been to stay with the QB you deemed good enough to draft in the 1st round 2 years ago. SOS.

Pulling RJ was absolutely the right move. Pulling Losman wasn't the wrong move either; it's just that his backup wasn't nearly as good as Flutie. Fitz proved to be better than Trent too.

 

Through 14 games of real game action for both players:

 

Manuel - 256 for 437 (58.6%), 2,810 yards (6.4 ypa) , 16 tds, 12 ints, 3 rushing tds, 7 fumbles, 3 Game winnng drives, 6-8 record as a starter. http://www.pro-footb.../M/ManuEJ00.htm

 

Losman - 198 for 366 (54.1%), 2,254 yards (6.2 ypa), 12 tds, 12 ints, 1 rushing td, 0 GWDs, 9 fumbles, 3-10 W-L record. http://www.pro-footb...mJ.00/gamelog//

 

Losman also was older (he was 23 and didn't play as a rookie). He was far, far worse than EJ was. But the Bills stuck with him in his 3rd season and got better as the season progressed. I think EJ was off to a better start than Losman. That's why I wanted them to ride this out a little longer.

 

Kyle Orton completeld 51% of his passes and threw 9 tds and 13 ints through his 15 games. http://www.pro-footb.../O/OrtoKy00.htm

 

I'm not a fan of the QB record stat at all. It is a team game. The QB is not a starting pitcher on a baseball team, for chrissake. (And I've noted how selective you are in the presentation of this stat; the Bears went 10-5 with Orton as a starter in his rookie season.) Manuel plays on a team with a far better defense than the one Losman played on (the Bills D went into the tank after 04). The talent level on this squad's offense is signficantly better than the 2005 Bills too. Regardless, they both suck, although the script on Manuel isn't written yet and he may turn the corner (I certainly hope he does). Losman never did. Losman certainly had the physical tool set that Manuel does, by the way. He had a spectacular arm. That's what I was referring to. Also, I don't know as if I've ever seen a highly touted young QB who is more inaccurate on medium-deep throws than Manuel. I'm sure there are some out there, but I didn't see them.

 

Lastly: http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr.

Edited September 30, 2014 by dave mcbride

[C.Biscuit97]

Pulling RJ was absolutely the right move. Pulling Losman wasn't the wrong move either; it's just that his backup wasn't nearly as good as Flutie. Fitz proved to be better than Trent too.

 

 

I'm not a fan of the QB record stat at all. It is a team game. The QB is not a starting pitcher on a baseball team, for chrissake. (And I've noted how selective you are in the presentation of this stat; the Bears went 10-5 with Orton as a starter in his rookie season.) Manuel plays on a team with a far better defense than the one Losman played on (the Bills D went into the tank after 04). The talent level on this squad's offense is signficantly better than the 2005 Bills too. Regardless, they both suck, although the script on Manuel isn't written yet and he may turn the corner (I certainly hope he does). Losman never did. Losman certainly had the physical tool set that Manuel does, by the way. He had a spectacular arm. That's what I was referring to. Also, I don't know as if I've ever seen a highly touted young QB who is more inaccurate on medium-deep throws than Manuel. I'm sure there are some out there, but I didn't see them.

 

I agree about W-L record for QB. But don't forget that EJ lost 2 games where he left the field with the lead (NE & ATL) and got credited for a loss in the Cleveland game where he was leading us to take the lead.

 

And my whole point is switching QBs is such a Bills type move, which haven't worked for 14 years. For once, I'd like to see the opposite. Again, I hope Orton proves me wrong. But I've seen this story too many times. And to give EJ a college OC (and it wasn't Chip Kelly or Kevin Sumlin either) was putting him behind the 8 ball to begin with.

[dave mcbride]

I agree about W-L record for QB. But don't forget that EJ lost 2 games where he left the field with the lead (NE & ATL) and got credited for a loss in the Cleveland game where he was leading us to take the lead.

 

And my whole point is switching QBs is such a Bills type move, which haven't worked for 14 years. For once, I'd like to see the opposite. Again, I hope Orton proves me wrong. But I've seen this story too many times. And to give EJ a college OC (and it wasn't Chip Kelly or Kevin Sumlin either) was putting him behind the 8 ball to begin with.

 

The thing is, the QB switches have always worked! The better player got onto the field. The fact that the replacement wasn't the answer is beside the point; they gave the team a better chance to win. None of the guys who were replaced did anything after leaving the Bills. Indeed, they were even worse.

 

As for the QB W-L stat, I honestly don't put any stock in it. I mean, I barely put any stock in won-loss records for starting pitchers.

 

Finally, we'll have to agree to disagree about Hackett. I think he's OK.

Edited September 30, 2014 by dave mcbride

[JPS]

If the Left Tackle got beat for 5 sacks, you'd want him replaced. If you CB gave up 3 TDs, same.

 

That's how bad EJ was the last 2 weeks. How is it any different? Everyone should suffer until we find out if this guy HAS a light that MAY go on? EJ was not alone in failing the last 2 weeks, but he was the leader and had ultimate control of the outcome.

 

Next.

[Kemp]

The OC cannot make a QB throw an accurate pass.

 

Almost everyone finally gets that EJ isn't cutting it. Almost everyone.

[Captain Hindsight]

Marrone is treading some dangerous waters if you ask me. This has Mularkey and Holcomb written all over it. To give up on a high investment this early rarely works out for the club/coach/player. This is a desperate move by a desperate coach and if it doesn't work, heads will roll.

[John from Riverside]

I think its gonna be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

EJ Manuel is Marrone's draft picked QB.....but he also owes it to the rest of the team to put a winning team on the field. Lets not forget there is a change in ownership issue here and that we just gave up quite a bit for Sammy Watkins (to Mike Pettine no less)

 

I think this stems much furhter then just this past game. You can even take this further back to when Thad Lewis was QBing this team after EJ Manuel got hurt.....is it me or did Thad seem to have much more latitude in this "conservative" offense then EJ Manuel did.....like one of them had training wheels and the other one had the keys to the car?

 

Now....for some inexplicable reason Thad's play fell off and he was released.....but I still think this logic is sound.

 

- You cannot keep running a base offense when the other team is just daring you to pass.....leaving targets wide open and making sue our running game does not get on track

- You cannot have a mutiny from the receivers when they are being underutilized, having their "catch radius" tested time and time again, etc etc. It looked to me like frustration was about to bubble over here.

- This team this year was not biult around "lets bring along our young qb" the minute you traded away that pick for Sammy Watkins and combined it with change in ownership....it was about "we seriously have not made the playoffs in 14 years" "we dont want to be attached to that when the Pegula's take over"

 

If anything Marrone might have SAVED his job by not being so stubborn that he went down with his struggling young QB.

 

By the way I am in no way giving up on EJ Manuel....something is not clicking with him.......I still have hope that light will turn on.

[papazoid]

the only thing that prevents Doug & Doug from getting fired at seasons end is making the playoffs.

 

it's painfully obvious they will not make the playoffs with EJ.

 

there are plenty of other reasons the Doug's get fired besides mishandling the QB position:

 

#1- QB situation - stayed ALL-IN with EJ, Thad & Tuel. brought in Orton so late missed all of camp and preseason.

 

#2- Traded away next years #1 draft pick. mortgaged the future.

 

#3- Traded away Stevie Johnson yet carry $10 million in salary cap DEAD MONEY.

 

#4- replaced the 70th ranked LG with the 65th ranked LG.

 

#5- stood pat at TE by resigning a mediocre receiving TE Chandler who can't block.

 

#6- got totally played by Jairus Byrd's agent. lost your ALL-Pro player for nothing in return.

 

#7- questionable 2nd round 2014 pick.

 

#8- Coaching - team undisciplined as evidenced by penalties.

 

#9- Coaching - clock and timeout mismanagement.

 

#10- Coaching - OL can't pick up stunts.

 

absent the playoffs, the two dougs are GONE after the season. Russ survives for one more year then Kim takes over.

[Mr. WEO]

Through 14 games of real game action for both players:

 

Manuel - 256 for 437 (58.6%), 2,810 yards (6.4 ypa) , 16 tds, 12 ints, 3 rushing tds, 7 fumbles, 3 Game winnng drives, 6-8 record as a starter. http://www.pro-footb.../M/ManuEJ00.htm

 

Losman - 198 for 366 (54.1%), 2,254 yards (6.2 ypa), 12 tds, 12 ints, 1 rushing td, 0 GWDs, 9 fumbles, 3-10 W-L record. http://www.pro-footb...mJ.00/gamelog//

 

Losman also was older (he was 23 and didn't play as a rookie). He was far, far worse than EJ was. But the Bills stuck with him in his 3rd season and got better as the season progressed. I think EJ was off to a better start than Losman. That's why I wanted them to ride this out a little longer.

 

Kyle Orton completeld 51% of his passes and threw 9 tds and 13 ints through his 15 games. http://www.pro-footb.../O/OrtoKy00.htm

 

 

 

Obviously, I disagree. IF this blows up, I don't think he will ever get another head coaching job in the NFL. He pulled the plug on a 1st round QB he selected after 14 games. For a very average, more importantly, older option.

 

 

 

What I am arguing is why should we keep a coach who couldn't develop a QB he drafted and benched him after just 14 games. There's no way Whaley just drafted Manuel without Marrone being fully on board.

 

 

 

You're right. How could we ever question Nate Hackett? He was amazing in the Big East.

 

I'm sure Manuel won't have benefitted from learning under Chip Kelly, Andy Reid, Norv Turner.

 

SO the Bills "mangled" the handling of Losman (who was "far,far worse" than EJ, per you), yet they also "stuck with him".

 

Then of course, they got rid of him when the second HC realized what the guy before him already concluded...JP sucked.

 

RJ was terrible and clueless--worse than JP, but they still kept putting him in there anyway. Only his uncommon frailty kept him out of the starting job, despite his awfulness.

 

Look, as others have pointed out, what this all proves is that the Bills don't "give up" on their young QBs too soon---they simply realize (a bit late,actually) that they are very poor judges of young QB talent. ANd that has extended over at least 3 FO administrations.

 

You're upset and losing your mind. Maybe this will be better for EJ in the long run. Why can't you just entertain that thought for a bit?

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Whoa, are we both watching the same team?

 

While I agree with the OP about firing this staff of clowns. I think it goes much further then just benching the 2nd year QB who hasn't even played a full 16 games yet.

 

How about the fact that the HC is a supposed O line guru that has no clue as to what a talented OG looks like. Last season Colin Brown got the start at LG, and was cut after 6 games. This year its Chris Williams and his bad back, and Pears moves from RT to RG, and both OG positions have been a comedy of errors.

 

The QB situation last year as the team kept 3 rookies on the roster, and no seasoned vet. No QB coach, and no senior NFL assistant to help out the first year OC. Now that OC is in his second year, and he is sucking worse then EJ. He should have kept the simplified offensive game plan and kept running the ball. Only now without better play at the OG position he can't do that this year.

 

This coaching staff is a joke, and WR Mike Williams stated that the teams WR's prepared all week to see "off" & zone coverage and Houston's secondary was previously letting receivers catch balls underneath, and then try and strip the ball to get a turnover. The Bills didn't change up the offense until late in the second half when the Bills OC finally realized they were in "press man" coverage. Williams words, we got the calls for off coverage and zone, and when they are playing man it tends not to work. Unreal! Seriously, the Bills coaches didn't even make that adjustment at half time?

 

http://www.buffalobi...bb-c911b4607d09

 

 

I can't wait until October when Pegs takes over, and looks at the mess he paid 1.4 Billion dollars for.Things will change. The Bills need a viable NFL experienced offensive coordinator, and one who actually knows how to build a winning offense.

 

They tried and the Vet got hurt. The only other option would have been to keep Leinart but lets be honest, he was hardly a "seasoned" vet. Who would you have brought in?

[peterpan]

How is it refreshing? It's the same move the Bills have done over and over again with young QBs. They pulled Losman his 2nd year and 4th year. They pulled Trent in his 3rd year. They pull RJ early.

 

This is the definition of a Bills move. A different move would have been to stay with the QB you deemed good enough to draft in the 1st round 2 years ago. SOS.

 

No, the difference is that EJ is most likely done with the Bills, and the NFL, for good.

 

Its refreshing knowing (or maybe I am hoping?) that I wont have to sit through 28 more game of EJ manual football over the rest of this season and next.

 

Its refreshing to have a coach with the Balls to pull a terrible QB when they see it, and not sink the entire team because you are stubborn.

 

Saying they should stick with a terrible QB because they used to think he was good is foolish. He stinks. What you gave up for him is already gone - we cant go back and un-draft him, so just deal with your current predicament and bench him.

 

They did and that is very refreshing.

[C.Biscuit97]

If the Left Tackle got beat for 5 sacks, you'd want him replaced. If you CB gave up 3 TDs, same.

 

That's how bad EJ was the last 2 weeks. How is it any different? Everyone should suffer until we find out if this guy HAS a light that MAY go on? EJ was not alone in failing the last 2 weeks, but he was the leader and had ultimate control of the outcome.

 

Next.

 

Not if they are first round picks. Eric Fisher hasn't been great for the Chiefs but they are going to let him play through it. A first round pick should be given a longer leash than a less drafted guy or journeyman veteran.

 

The thing is, the QB switches have always worked! The better player got onto the field. The fact that the replacement wasn't the answer is beside the point; they gave the team a better chance to win. None of the guys who were replaced did anything after leaving the Bills. Indeed, they were even worse.

 

As for the QB W-L stat, I honestly don't put any stock in it. I mean, I barely put any stock in won-loss records for starting pitchers.

 

Finally, we'll have to agree to disagree about Hackett. I think he's OK.

 

Personally, I've always hated daddy boy's coaches. They are given opportunities that a lot of better coaches are not. Lane Kiffin got head coach jobs proving nothing. Same with Kyle Shanahan. What has Hackett proven?

 

If Norv Turner was EJ's OC and he decided EJ was done, I'd accept it more. But I'm sorry. I don't believe in Hackett's resume to say he isn't part of the problem.

 

Marrone is treading some dangerous waters if you ask me. This has Mularkey and Holcomb written all over it. To give up on a high investment this early rarely works out for the club/coach/player. This is a desperate move by a desperate coach and if it doesn't work, heads will roll.

 

Well stated.

[dave mcbride]

Not if they are first round picks. Eric Fisher hasn't been great for the Chiefs but they are going to let him play through it. A first round pick should be given a longer leash than a less drafted guy or journeyman veteran.

 

 

 

Personally, I've always hated daddy boy's coaches. They are given opportunities that a lot of better coaches are not. Lane Kiffin got head coach jobs proving nothing. Same with Kyle Shanahan. What has Hackett proven?

 

If Norv Turner was EJ's OC and he decided EJ was done, I'd accept it more. But I'm sorry. I don't believe in Hackett's resume to say he isn't part of the problem.

 

 

 

Well stated.

My god man. He's terrible right now and hurting the team. I honestly think he has the yips. Again: http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr .

Edited September 30, 2014 by dave mcbride

[A Dog Named Kelso]

I agree about W-L record for QB. But don't forget that EJ lost 2 games where he left the field with the lead (NE & ATL) and got credited for a loss in the Cleveland game where he was leading us to take the lead.

 

And my whole point is switching QBs is such a Bills type move, which haven't worked for 14 years. For once, I'd like to see the opposite. Again, I hope Orton proves me wrong. But I've seen this story too many times. And to give EJ a college OC (and it wasn't Chip Kelly or Kevin Sumlin either) was putting him behind the 8 ball to begin with.

 

No, as has been pointed out switching QBs too late is a Bills move. This move shows they will not sacrifice the team if a player in not ready just because he is a first round pick. You should be applauding that.

[Canadian Bills Fan]

Anyone think this decision might have come from higher up than Marrone?

 

CBF

[dave mcbride]

Personally, I've always hated daddy boy's coaches. They are given opportunities that a lot of better coaches are not. Lane Kiffin got head coach jobs proving nothing. Same with Kyle Shanahan. What has Hackett proven?

 

 

That means that you're prejudging (i.e., prejudiced, literally). Some coaches' sons are fine. Belichik is the son of a coach. So are the Harbaughs. Every individual is different. Let's see how the offense does now with a professional-level (albeit still-just-average) QB.

[BillsVet]

Well, if anyone needs more proof that this was absolutely the right move, all you have to do is go to the top of this thread. It's now official.

 

If you take the games EJ's finished for Buffalo, then Marrone's career record as a HC is 6-8, which is the same as Belichick's first 14 games in 1991 with Cleveland. Ergo, Marrone and Belichick are the same.

 

And people want to fire Marrone? Makes no sense. No sense at all. Doug Marrone's done more in his life than most people who post on TBD, so anyone who criticizes him is clearly not bright.

[hondo in seattle]

I want him fired for bailing on the guy he selected after less than 16 starts.

 

Why should we ever trust him to draft and develop a qb again?

 

How close are you to EJ? Personally, I'm not convinced that this isn't the best thing for Manuel. Besides throwing poorly in Houston, EJ looked downright hangdog and it appears some of the players were losing faith in him.

 

I like EJ but have to concede that Orton probably gives us the better chance of winning right now. But I also wonder if EJ might also benefit.

[Section242]

EJ was awful the last two weeks. The point of switching QB's is that if they don't win he's fired anyways.

 

As for the idea of Kevin Sumlin, all in.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

betting the op is correct. No playoffs and Marrone can justifyibly be fired, so could anyone in the front office. The way the qb situation has been handled by the whole organization is pretty bad in retrospect:

 

1. Cut all the QBs on the roster

2. Draft a qb in the first round, he is hand picked based on a Whaley/nix/Marrone road show and then pick up a udFA as well as add an injury prone kolb

3. Revolving door through 2013 preseason with Thad, young, Leinart (they do this with Palmer the next season too)

4. No adjustment after kolb predictably went down to get the vet

5. Start ej as rookie after declaring him as a "project" after the draft

6. Put Teul in Cleveland game and he looked horrendously unprepared and lost

7. Brought in Thad and very shortly afterwards started him

8. Still no vet through 2014 offseason

9. New qb coach in offseason proving even more eyes on ej

10. Ej declared unquestioned starter

11. Draft a wr with the 2014 and 2015 first round pick and no qbs

12. Dixson is the only new qb brought in and barely gets a preseason snap then cut

13. Both backups cut including one that actually won a couple games after preseason

14. Orton brought in for large sum as back up after preseason is over

15. Ej is benched after going 2-2

16. Start Otron who will likely replace ej as the worst performing qb in the league, because that is who he always has been.

 

That is not a good story no matter who is telling it.

 

Hackett is culpable for not figuring out how to make use of all these track star superstar athletes no matter what the situation. If Christian ponder can do something with Harvin, or Patterson, jeeeze gotta be able to get something to sammy outside of a slant. I also firmly believe there is more than an accuracy issue at work. I believe the timing and choreography of the offense is not made for a young team. The o line still can't pick up stunts. This was last years problem v Tampa. It's not new!!!

 

As far as Manuel, I hoped his strong arm and athleticism would lead somewhere. I don't get why his first and second games as a pro seemed more fluid than his last two. Some Throws in particular v the pats stand out as super accurate. I mean his benching ultimately is his fault, but I blame coaches that the guy looks worse now than when he first started. If the plan was supposed to be to get a vet to keep the seat warm while grooming all the shortcoming out of him, they should have maintained that plan when Kolb went out.

 

Now the franchise needs to reboot again. Whether EJM ever had a chance of getting good to great for buf it can't be anymore right?

 

Has any qb been benched and come back to be great on the same team?

 

Frankly I don't see this staff ever successfully "grooming" a qb so they will need to draft a manning/luck type to actually get the franchise guy teams need in today's game either with a high pick or dumb luck.

 

Lastly.... If Orton sucks, which is more likely than not.... Now what do they do? They can't bring EJM back his confidence is surely shot. Bring back Thad?

 

[Buftex]

I want him fired for bailing on the guy he selected after less than 16 starts.

 

Why should we ever trust him to draft and develop a qb again?

 

Benching does not necessarily equal "bailing".

 

C Biscuit97, I am have behind EJ all the way, but I still think this is actually a very wise move on Marrones' part. I know it has been referred to elsewhere, but the "body language" of the the skill players on that offense last Sunday was screaming frustration, with the QB. Sure, it is Marrone's job to develop the QB (or to make sure it is being done), but he also has responsibility to the other guys on that roster, and not to be too corny, but to Bills fans, to not write off a season, 4 games in, because one guy is seemingly holding them back.

 

I also don't buy into the whole narritive, as the national media seems to be writing it, that the Bills are necessarily "writing off" EJ Manuel. They have a tough match-up next week against the Lions, and EJ did nothing the last two weeks to suggest that he would be able to play well, with the kind of pass rush that the Lions bring. Who knows if Orton will fare much better? But they have to try something...

[hondo in seattle]

Is anyone else old enough to remember when Tom Landry used to alternate between Craig Morton and Roger Staubach? Landry went to the Super Bowl with both those QBs. There's no coaching rule that says you have to stay with the same QB forever. Yep, fans and players both like continuity under center. But it's not the right answer for every circumstance.

 

I won't say Marrone is a great coach - that remains to be seen. But this is the right move at the right time. EJ seems to be regressing while Orton has been progressing with his understanding of the offense.