Why I think Marrone should be fired...

[extrahammer]

I'm just gonna sit back and wait for the "Bench Orton" posts in favor of whatever 3rd string QB we can scrounge up.

[C.Biscuit97]

Marrone still has a shot at sainthood.. nothin like a sacrifice to start the story

 

Haha. This is the first Bills related thing in 2 days that made me smile.

 

I'm just gonna sit back and wait for the "Bench Orton" posts in favor of whatever 3rd string QB we can scrounge up.

 

Maybe Tebow can take his job again!

[A Dog Named Kelso]

I just see this as Kelly Holcomb all over again. And I think EJ has more potential than JP. Mularkey got fired and then the Bills actually got a decent season out of JP.

 

EJ certainly has a lot of blame to shoulder. But a lot of this offense has regressed since Gailey left. The oline. Stevie Johnson looks like the guy he was under Gailey and not what he was last year in SF. Spiller was one of he best weapons in the NFL under Chan.

 

Why is it not crazy to think that maybe coaching is holding this team back?

No he didn't

[jr1]

It's going to be great when Fred Jackson's the starting QB

[extrahammer]

No he didn't

 

"Offer your resignation or we'll fire you." Happens everyday.

[GG]

 

 

"Offer your resignation or we'll fire you." Happens everyday.

 

No, Mularkey walked out on his own.

[C.Biscuit97]

 

No he didn't

 

They want him to fire a coach and he didn't so he quit. We went from 9-7 to 6-10 and he mangled the qb situation. He should have been fired.

[Stenbar]

I want him fired for bailing on the guy he selected after less than 16 starts.

 

Why should we ever trust him to draft and develop a qb again?

Its his job to put wins on the board not develop players....JC when are we gonna be happy as fans!!! EJ has shown some good things but for the whole package he has failed....The coach wants to win he is going down for better or worse throwing punches....Good for him.....

[Webster Guy]

The good news about all of this is that we'll actually know at some point this season whether or not the decision to change qb's is a good move or not. So many things discussed here are tough or impossible to quantify, but this one we'll see who is right and who isn't.

 

The upside for the Orton decision is if he plays well then our team gets better. That's the ONLY goal, to get better as a team and win enough games to get in the playoffs.

 

If Orton doesn't play better than EJ, then it will give Manuel confidence that he was on the right track and not a bust, and it will also help us to evaluate what else we have wrong on the offense. Maybe Hackett IS a good OC but his qb isn't talented enough to make it in the NFL (I have my doubts there, but hey this is what a qb change uncovers).

 

I see this as a win win scenario. Orton has been streaky throughout his career but he's played some awesome football at times, so hopefully he shakes off the rust and grooves that offense for us.

[C.Biscuit97]

The good news about all of this is that we'll actually know at some point this season whether or not the decision to change qb's is a good move or not. So many things discussed here are tough or impossible to quantify, but this one we'll see who is right and who isn't.

 

The upside for the Orton decision is if he plays well then our team gets better. That's the ONLY goal, to get better as a team and win enough games to get in the playoffs.

 

If Orton doesn't play better than EJ, then it will give Manuel confidence that he was on the right track and not a bust, and it will also help us to evaluate what else we have wrong on the offense. Maybe Hackett IS a good OC but his qb isn't talented enough to make it in the NFL (I have my doubts there, but hey this is what a qb change uncovers).

 

I see this as a win win scenario. Orton has been streaky throughout his career but he's played some awesome football at times, so hopefully he shakes off the rust and grooves that offense for us.

 

Overall, I like this post. My fear is that Orton isn't good enough and we wasted a year learning about EJ.

 

Again, if that happens, Marrone should be fired.

[beerme1]

 

 

You'd be surprised how many "EJ" starts Orton has had in his career.

 

And it's not really just about Orton or EJ. It's the same stupid mindset this franchise has had. You believe in a guy enough to draft him then you bench him for a journeyman. When has it worked for us?

 

I would love for Orton to prove me wrong. I would love the Bills to go on a tear. But it's going to be the same old crap. Fire the coaches and have to start over with a new qb.

 

Not this time. I believe that there is enough talent on this team to justify this move. Further, Orton should prove to be more than a capable qb that allows the other talent to win games for us. EJ is losing games for us and not allowing the talent to carry the day.

Our next 300 yard passer will be Orton. And for giggles and all of this to be true, we have to beat the Lions and I will predict the D or talent other than the qb will be the reason we win. Capable qb that allows others to do their jobs. I endorse this move and I support EJ. I don't know what he learns being the back up, but we cant afford more of his game right now. Getting guys hurt with his throw, killing us with int's etc.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Barring the playoffs of course.

 

.....

 

I'd have a lot more respect for him if he went down with the EJ ship. But instead, he is taking the "safe" route with a known mediocre at best qb.

 

I'm a Bills fan first and foremost. I'm probably too optimist about this team. It means a lot to me and I let it clog my judgement at times. But I hate this move. Anything less than the playoffs, the Bills should bail on Marrone like he bailed on EJ.

 

 

So, if Marrone went 4-12 but stuck with EJ you would retain him, but if he goes 10-6 but misses the playoff because he made the switch to Orton you would fire him?

 

Also, where should Marrone's loyalty be to the other 52 players on the team should they all suffer another losing season for EJ's development?

 

I thought the point was for the team to win.

Edited September 30, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[C.Biscuit97]

 

 

Not this time. I believe that there is enough talent on this team to justify this move. Further, Orton should prove to be more than a capable qb that allows the other talent to win games for us. EJ is losing games for us and not allowing the talent to carry the day.

Our next 300 yard passer will be Orton. And for giggles and all of this to be true, we have to beat the Lions and I will predict the D or talent other than the qb will be the reason we win. Capable qb that allows others to do their jobs. I endorse this move and I support EJ. I don't know what he learns being the back up, but we cant afford more of his game right now. Getting guys hurt with his throw, killing us with int's etc.

 

I loved for this to be true. I do disagree about EJ killing us with InTs. I think part of his problem is he tries to hard to not throw ints.

 

 

So, if Marrone went 4-12 but stuck with EJ you would retain him, but if he goes 10-6 but misses the playoff because he made the switch to Orton you would fire him?

 

Also, where should Marrone's loyalty be to the other 52 players on the team should they all suffer another losing season for EJ's development?

 

I thought the point was for the team to win.

 

Those are extremes. If the Bills are 2-4 and EJ is still struggling, I get the switch more. And most likely he stays if miss the playoffs at 9-7.

 

But how could you trust a guy to pick a qb if he whiffed that bad with his first choice? I think coaching staffs should be tied to the qb they draft, especially that high.

[mead107]

 

 

I just see this as Kelly Holcomb all over again. And I think EJ has more potential than JP. Mularkey got fired and then the Bills actually got a decent season out of JP.

 

EJ certainly has a lot of blame to shoulder. But a lot of this offense has regressed since Gailey left. The oline. Stevie Johnson looks like the guy he was under Gailey and not what he was last year in SF. Spiller was one of he best weapons in the NFL under Chan.

 

Why is it not crazy to think that maybe coaching is holding this team back?

did I miss a season ??? JP took us to the playoffs? Where is he now?

 

Face it, coach made right decision

[ndirish1978]

Doooomed!

[A Dog Named Kelso]

I loved for this to be true. I do disagree about EJ killing us with InTs. I think part of his problem is he tries to hard to not throw ints.

 

 

 

Those are extremes. If the Bills are 2-4 and EJ is still struggling, I get the switch more. And most likely he stays if miss the playoffs at 9-7.

 

But how could you trust a guy to pick a qb if he whiffed that bad with his first choice? I think coaching staffs should be tied to the qb they draft, especially that high.

We are not talking about most likely's these were your requirement of what you would do. So, would you fire him if he got the team to 10-6 but missed the playoff after this switch?

 

And even though they won the first two games EJs game was not what I would call great outings. It has been 4 weeks of at best OK to horrible qb play.

Edited September 30, 2014 by A Dog Named Kelso

[Stenbar]

Overall, I like this post. My fear is that Orton isn't good enough and we wasted a year learning about EJ.

 

Again, if that happens, Marrone should be fired.

So EJ played a partial rookie season and 4 games into his second and he gets pulled cuz he was terrible and Marrone should be fired....Why?????

\

[Rob's House]

Overall, I like this post. My fear is that Orton isn't good enough and we wasted a year learning about EJ.

 

Again, if that happens, Marrone should be fired.

 

That's the fear of not switching to Orton. We already wasted last year learning about EJ. A rookie QB is going to usually get a year to grow provided he doesn't **** the bed. I understand he missed a few games, but he started 10 games. If you start more than half your team's games in a season you're no longer a rookie and you're expected to make a second year leap. EJ didn't. His first couple of games were just good enough to earn him some more time, but by this week it was clear that he hadn't earned the extra time. By year two you have to show something or you get the hook. He's actually had a whole lot more opportunity than most QBs get. Maybe if he works hard and studies he'll get another chance. But you don't throw away another season, especially a promising one, just to make sure you didn't waste a first round pick on a guy who looks like a bust.

[Spiderweb]

Manuel needs to step back and recoup. He has been horrible. He has missed receivers badly that were wide open, not to mention throws at the WR's knees, behind the WR's, or so far over the WR's head that the WR's had no chance. Goodwin darned near got killed because of Manuel. Yet as bad as this is, what the neck was Hackett and Marone thinking? If Marone had any balls at all, he would have left Hackett in Houston. Hackett has to be the worst OC in the NFL today.

[A Dog Named Kelso]

Manuel needs to step back and recoup. He has been horrible. He has missed receivers badly that were wide open, not to mention throws at the WR's knees, behind the WR's, or so far over the WR's head that the WR's had no chance. Goodwin darned near got killed because of Manuel. Yet as bad as this is, what the neck was Hackett and Marone thinking? If Marone had any balls at all, he would have left Hackett in Houston. Hackett has to be the worst OC in the NFL today.

This move allows everyone to see if the problem was truly EJ or others. If they continue to perform badly you can start looking at other area. However, if they offense really takes off there will be a lot EJ needs to process.

[Dragonborn10]

So if Orton does better with the same OC, then who will you blame EJ's failure on?

And if Orton is worse?

[mdk]

Coaches don't make draft picks. I'm sure he was in favor of EJ but he didn't make the choice. And there were not any better choices. I still would take EJ over Geno and Mike Glennon.

 

Okay, coaches don't make draft picks... let's agree Bills have had a consistently tragic front office. EJ over Geno and Mike Glennon? Maybe. However only EJ was a 1st round reach. With Marketing guru Russ Brandon 'leading the charge', Bills too often go for dramatic picks (against the better judgement of smart football men). Need a "big WR"? Force pick James Hardy. Need a franchise QB? 'Shock the world' and pick EJ (a projected 3rd rounder in the 1st round). Assume EJ (an unproven QB) is 'the man' to get him the ball, move up to get gifted WR Sammy Watkins in exchange for next year's #1 (i.e the future). I, for one, think RB should be fired (or kept FAR away from football operations). Brandon's the only common denominator in the past 14 year playoff-less years.

[FireChan]

And if Orton is worse?

 

Not to start the Orton excuse train, but Orton won't be playing the same teams EJ has. Especially not the inept Texans. Orton could very well look shaky. However, if Orton has a 250 1 TD 1 Pick or 2 TD 2 Pick day against the Lions and more importantly, gets our WR's finally involved, we can safely assume Hackett is not the issue. The waters do get muddy as we face a team who shut down Cam Newton.

 

Personally, I don't believe Orton could look worse than EJ did on Sunday. His performance was one of the worst I've ever seen. And I think Marrone agrees, which is why he pulled the plug.

Edited September 30, 2014 by FireChan

[EJManuel]

You should be fired.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Your love for EJ is unbelievable. Fire an HC for benching him after a horrific game? Good god Biscuit, get it together.

 

CJ stinks. SJ13 had 3 good years with Fitz because he was the only NFL WR on the team those years.

 

You may have more respect going 4-12 with EJ, but I have more respect for Marrone being a man, saying EJ isn't playing well enough, and having the stones to make a change, when he knows it's going to be a media firestorm.

 

ALSO

 

Norv Turner stinks. Like really bad. Ruined a Chargers team that had the most talent on both sides of the ball for 3 years. Shanny has sucked ever since he had a QB not named Elway. Morhinweg actively lost the Jets a game by calling a stupid timeout that he actually couldn't even do.

 

Hackett's greatest fault is what? Getting open receivers that the QB can't hit?

 

:worthy:

 

No more of a joke that you trying to argue every mundane point with people because you're bored.

 

 

 

And you're my nomination for worst poster of the year. Congrats!

 

 

 

You're a rookie qb. Who would you rather learn under - Nate Hackett or Norv Turner? Really close huh?

 

Hackett didn't ruin EJ, EJ never was that good to begin with.

[FireChan]

 

 

:worthy:

 

 

 

Hackett didn't ruin EJ, EJ never was that good to begin with.

 

Also funny with the Shanahan point. Does Biscuit know that Shanny singlehandedly crippled RG3 and ruined any chance of him having a career, all in his rookie year? Yeah, get me that guy!

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Marrone still has a shot at sainthood.. nothin like a sacrifice to start the story

 

 

Also funny with the Shanahan point. Does Biscuit know that Shanny singlehandedly crippled RG3 and ruined any chance of him having a career, all in his rookie year? Yeah, get me that guy!

 

To entertain Biscuit, is there any one you would want?

[FireChan]

 

 

 

 

 

To entertain Biscuit, is there any one you would want?

 

Arians, because the guy can coach. Not that it'd be hard to coach a rookie like Luck, but Arians took that Indy team over when Pagano was sick. Then Arians went to Arizona and revived their franchise.

 

Really, that's pretty much it though.

[Deranged Rhino]

Not to start the Orton excuse train, but Orton won't be playing the same teams EJ has. Especially not the inept Texans. Orton could very well look shaky. However, if Orton has a 250 1 TD 1 Pick or 2 TD 2 Pick day against the Lions and more importantly, gets our WR's finally involved, we can safely assume Hackett is not the issue. The waters do get muddy as we face a team who shut down Cam Newton.

 

Personally, I don't believe Orton could look worse than EJ did on Sunday. His performance was one of the worst I've ever seen. And I think Marrone agrees, which is why he pulled the plug.

 

A Cam Newton who was less than 100% and, outside of the rook, without any receivers of note. I agree with your post, I just think Detroit's D is more vulnerable than that game makes it seem. Their front is nasty, and will make Pears their date for the afternoon, but the Bills can have more talent on the outside than Detroit has capable defensive backs.

 

But you're right. Orton could look shaky because Detroit is better than Texas's defense -- especially against the run.

[FireChan]

 

 

A Cam Newton who was less than 100% and, outside of the rook, without any receivers of note. I agree with your post, I just think Detroit's D is more vulnerable than that game makes it seem. Their front is nasty, and will make Pears their date for the afternoon, but the Bills can have more talent on the outside than Detroit has capable defensive backs.

 

But you're right. Orton could look shaky because Detroit is better than Texas's defense -- especially against the run.

 

Yes, you're right, that Carolina offense isn't a juggernaut. The Steelers blew out the Panthers, and they just got thrown down by Glennon. The NFL is crazy. This game is impossible to pick.

Edited September 30, 2014 by FireChan

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Arians, because the guy can coach. Not that it'd be hard to coach a rookie like Luck, but Arians took that Indy team over when Pagano was sick. Then Arians went to Arizona and revived their franchise.

 

Really, that's pretty much it though.

 

Loved Arians and is doing great things. He also worked with Payton and Roethlisberger, who I still think misses him.

 

But we aren't getting him so I'd be all for bringing Harbaugh if SF lets him go, also like SF coordinators or an innovative person similar to Chip Kelly.

[BuffaninATL]

I want him fired for bailing on the guy he selected after less than 16 starts.

 

Why should we ever trust him to draft and develop a qb again?

 

why the metric of 16 games ? is that a magic # ? .... look at Bridgewater Sunday, it's not magic. Either you have it or you don't. Would you be OK with watching more games like Sunday's, an eminently winning game that we should have won going away with AVERAGE QB play ?

[BuffaninATL]

Not this time. I believe that there is enough talent on this team to justify this move. Further, Orton should prove to be more than a capable qb that allows the other talent to win games for us. EJ is losing games for us and not allowing the talent to carry the day.

Our next 300 yard passer will be Orton. And for giggles and all of this to be true, we have to beat the Lions and I will predict the D or talent other than the qb will be the reason we win. Capable qb that allows others to do their jobs. I endorse this move and I support EJ. I don't know what he learns being the back up, but we cant afford more of his game right now. Getting guys hurt with his throw, killing us with int's etc.

 

Exactly.....and give Marrone credit for recognizing that he has talent (young & veteran) who don't deserve to have their efforts squandered due to one player's inadequacies. He would have lost the room had he continued to let the ship sink with EJ.

[papazoid]

Marrone's future will be decided after the season.....by the new GM.

[Chandler#81]

 

 

There certainly was more to his benching: A player revotl! Most obvious the receivers were blatantly (unprofessionally) showing their frustration with his erratic passes. Everyone in the organization is well aware that Orton is a pedestrian qb, a backup at best. And everyone knows that at this point he gives the team a better chance to win than the confused young qb he is replacing.

 

Evidently, not everybody..

[Wayne Cubed]

Biscuit, I think you are letting your emotions get the better of you here. I will admit I was a bit shocked because I thought he would give EJ another week, but the AFC East is ripe for the taking.

 

Think of it this way, if Marrone stays with EJ and he continues to play poorly, which I'm not saying would definitely happen, Marrone would most likely lose his job anyways. And the next HC certainly isn't going to go with EJ, who isn't his guy. By putting Orton in and hopefully righting the ship he is actually giving EJ more time to develop, if thats possible. EJ was always going to be a project and if he can stay positive, maybe this could be the best thing for him.

 

I'm a fan of the Bills first, not the players. I like EJ and was always hoping he could turn it around or improve or would be the "the guy". And I was always in the he needs time to show what he can do and give him time camp. The problem is this team is absolutely loaded with talent. The defense is playing pretty much lights out. Like I said earlier, the AFC East is there for the taking. The Bills just need competent QB play and the first 2 weeks EJ gave them that but then he he regressed against San Diego. I didn't think he could play any worse than he did in that game, but then he did just that, played even worse against Houston.

 

Think of it this way, if Sammy Watkins dropped 8 passes against San Diego, then went out and dropped 16 against Houston, you don't think Marrone should maybe question whether Sammy is ready?

[Big Gun]

Marrone is not getting fired. He has turned this roster into a competitive respectable team regardless of how EJ has played. That in itself is a major accomplishment compared to years past. Marrone has righted the ship and it is setting sail for the top of the heap, so yeah let's fire the best coach the Bills have had in 15 years, makes sense to me. He is also calls it like it is and doesn't seem to play favorites, the best players play period, I can 100% respect that.

[8-8 Forever?]

There's no way he wasn't 100% on board with EJ. And if he wasn't, he should have pushed more for other qb options.

He was. they wanted Orton a year ago after Kolb went down. Orton got out of Dallas but Bills had to wait til August to avoid giving him starter money.. you guys always forget the business end of this stuff. They got the guy they wanted at a price they were willing to pay. Now they get to execute the QB approach they wanted to do last year. Let EJ sit behind a Vet for a year or two, work on his mechanics and learn the speed of the game. I bet they intended to do this all along. If they had gotten Orton in June, he'd have started the season. So they had to go with EJ for 4 games while Orton caught up. EJ went 2-2 so all good. Now Plan A goes into effect, a month later than they wanted. I like Waley/Marrone, they are more than will ing to shake things up. Too bad they all get fired at year end when Pegs cleans house.

 

Yes, you're right, that Carolina offense isn't a juggernaut. The Steelers blew out the Panthers, and they just got thrown down by Glennon. The NFL is crazy. This game is impossible to pick.

its all about turnovers and short fields on offense. get those, you win, don't get those and the other guy does you lose. from scrimmage, the teams in the NFL are pretty much equal, other than the few with HOF QBs or all world defenses. so its all about turnovers and injuries. turnovers lose games, injuries (if serious and numerous) lose seasons. picking games is a worthless exercise because you cannot forecast turnovers.

 

Marrone's future will be decided after the season.....by the new GM.

Correct. all of this discussion is nonsense, because barring a 10+ win season (not going to happen), Pegs cleans house and we start all over again. Great , huh. Another 3 years of suckiness while yet another coaching staff puts their stuff in.

[thewildrabbit]

Marrone is not getting fired. He has turned this roster into a competitive respectable team regardless of how EJ has played. That in itself is a major accomplishment compared to years past. Marrone has righted the ship and it is setting sail for the top of the heap, so yeah let's fire the best coach the Bills have had in 15 years, makes sense to me. He is also calls it like it is and doesn't seem to play favorites, the best players play period, I can 100% respect that.

Whoa, are we both watching the same team?

 

While I agree with the OP about firing this staff of clowns. I think it goes much further then just benching the 2nd year QB who hasn't even played a full 16 games yet.

 

How about the fact that the HC is a supposed O line guru that has no clue as to what a talented OG looks like. Last season Colin Brown got the start at LG, and was cut after 6 games. This year its Chris Williams and his bad back, and Pears moves from RT to RG, and both OG positions have been a comedy of errors.

 

The QB situation last year as the team kept 3 rookies on the roster, and no seasoned vet. No QB coach, and no senior NFL assistant to help out the first year OC. Now that OC is in his second year, and he is sucking worse then EJ. He should have kept the simplified offensive game plan and kept running the ball. Only now without better play at the OG position he can't do that this year.

 

This coaching staff is a joke, and WR Mike Williams stated that the teams WR's prepared all week to see "off" & zone coverage and Houston's secondary was previously letting receivers catch balls underneath, and then try and strip the ball to get a turnover. The Bills didn't change up the offense until late in the second half when the Bills OC finally realized they were in "press man" coverage. Williams words, we got the calls for off coverage and zone, and when they are playing man it tends not to work. Unreal! Seriously, the Bills coaches didn't even make that adjustment at half time?

 

http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Mike_Williams_We_Adjusted_a_Little_Too_Late/2229d307-9410-4b01-bdbb-c911b4607d09

 

 

I can't wait until October when Pegs takes over, and looks at the mess he paid 1.4 Billion dollars for.Things will change. The Bills need a viable NFL experienced offensive coordinator, and one who actually knows how to build a winning offense.

[Mr. WEO]

They want him to fire a coach and he didn't so he quit. We went from 9-7 to 6-10 and he mangled the qb situation. He should have been fired.

 

He was fired, no, wait, he quit. And they went 5-11 after 9-7. He hardly "mangled" the QB situation. He did play JP for half the season or so. JP absolutely sucked. He proved to be a hopeless 1st round reach. Mularkey realized this early on, as did many of us here.