EJ looked calm and in control..

[K-9]

dude....im not digging up your threads. We are having a conversation now. If you dont feel like restating it thats ok.

 

I feel that short of using a draft pick on another QB (and then taking the time to groom THAT QB) there was nothing even romotely close to being a definate solution at QB

 

The bills decided to biuld the team up around EJ manuel......we are stacked on OL, WR, and RB......we have depth on top of depth. And they are bringing along their 1st round QB.

 

If he falls on his face this year.....it will be time to make a change. I dont think he is going to.

 

Depends on the nature of how he falls on his face. Even incremental improvement over last year will be enough to secure a 3rd season of development, imo. He's gonna get his thousand reps.

 

This micro-analysis of his every attempt at camp needs to be ignored. Each practice rep is broken down in the film room and reviewed. It's one thing to say he sucked and quite another to say he sucked in context.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[GG]

It's now irrelevant where he was drafted. What matters now is performance. If EJ came out this year, I agree with Casserly that it's doubtful he gets drafted in the first round and is probably the #5 QB taken. But the Bills are stuck with him for this year, and that's understandable. What's not understandable is there's no plan B if he doesn't pan out because there's no 1st round pick next year. So instead of taking another developmental QB in mid rounds, who would give the team another option for 2015, we're stuck with the same guys who finished the year here.

 

This has been discussed ad nauseum, and I'm surprised you need to see it repeated. Again.

[john]

simple question was asked. why not a simple answer given? just an outsider here but you sound like a tool who can't back up his statements.

[DallasMac]

I was annoyed by giving up a first next year for the same reason. Then I looked at the qbs that will likely enter and there really aren't any that would be considered sure things. Mariota still needs to work on accuracy and the same with Hundtley and Miller. Maybe these guys take the next step this year though.

[John from Riverside]

It's now irrelevant where he was drafted. What matters now is performance. If EJ came out this year, I agree with Casserly that it's doubtful he gets drafted in the first round and is probably the #5 QB taken. But the Bills are stuck with him for this year, and that's understandable. What's not understandable is there's no plan B if he doesn't pan out because there's no 1st round pick next year. So instead of taking another developmental QB in mid rounds, who would give the team another option for 2015, we're stuck with the same guys who finished the year here.

 

This has been discussed ad nauseum, and I'm surprised you need to see it repeated. Again.

 

It has been repeated at nauseum....didnt realize this was your stance.

 

My response....

 

I really dont care what Casserly says and he quite often is not right. There has also been a lot of debate on where EJ would have gone in this draft because of the physical attributes and measurables of EJ Manuel......5th QB taken? HIGHLY debatable.

 

But let say for a minute that they DID take a mid round QB.....this sounds an aweful lot like what we did with that 3rd round guy we took a while back.....which wouldnt just be more of the same? You talk about not doing the same thing we have been doing the past 15 years but then your solution is to do the same thing we have been doing the last 15 years......

 

I dont know that EJ Manuel is the answer.......I do know that after ONE season in which he didnt even play the year we dont know.

[mannc]

I was annoyed by giving up a first next year for the same reason. Then I looked at the qbs that will likely enter and there really aren't any that would be considered sure things. Mariota still needs to work on accuracy and the same with Hundtley and Miller. Maybe these guys take the next step this year though.

Not to change the subject, but how accurate do you expect Mariota to be? 63.5% completion percentage (68% in 2012), 31 TDs and 4 interceptions isn't accurate enough? To answer John's question, many of us would have liked to see the Bills use a mid to late round pick this year on a QB to come in and back up EJ or, God forbid, compete with him.

[John from Riverside]

Not to change the subject, but how accurate do you expect Mariota to be? 63.5% completion percentage (68% in 2012), 31 TDs and 4 interceptions isn't accurate enough? To answer John's question, many of us would have liked to see the Bills use a mid to late round pick this year on a QB to come in and back up EJ or, God forbid, compete with him.

 

That is a fair enough answer.......and I actually wasnt against drafting a mid round QB......although there has been a lot of stats backing up that you dont find legit franchise QB's in the middle rounds.

 

If they are that good....they would be drafted in the 1st round because that elusive franchise QB is SO HARD to find.

 

I just think the bills had a philosophy and followed it......biuld up the team around the rook and hope the rook continues to mature and improve his game. The physical everything you look for is all there........consistancy is what is needed

[GG]

simple question was asked. why not a simple answer given? just an outsider here but you sound like a tool who can't back up his statements.

 

If you're referring to me, the same thing has been said over and over in this thread and other threads. Note that this particular topic was related to a tangent of what would happen when the new owner comes in and cleans house. There is really only one glaring hole on this roster, and it happens to be the most important one. Whaley has done a decent job with most everything. Except he's playing another high risk game with the most important position. It bit him last year, and he left no room for error this year or next.

[DallasMac]

 

Not to change the subject, but how accurate do you expect Mariota to be? 63.5% completion percentage (68% in 2012), 31 TDs and 4 interceptions isn't accurate enough? To answer John's question, many of us would have liked to see the Bills use a mid to late round pick this year on a QB to come in and back up EJ or, God forbid, compete with him.

I've read a cpl things questioning his accuracy but apparently it's more his inaccuracy in the beginning of games. Thanks for posting that though because it definitely is better than I thought it was. Still not a Mariota fan though.

[FloridaSnow]

 

 

That is a fair enough answer.......and I actually wasnt against drafting a mid round QB......although there has been a lot of stats backing up that you dont find legit franchise QB's in the middle rounds.

 

If they are that good....they would be drafted in the 1st round because that elusive franchise QB is SO HARD to find.

 

I just think the bills had a philosophy and followed it......biuld up the team around the rook and hope the rook continues to mature and improve his game. The physical everything you look for is all there........consistancy is what is needed

 

FSU alum here. What is really disconcerting about Manuel is how little the book on him has changed since he took his first snap at FSU. He has always been a guy with lots of potential who just needs to find a way to put it all together. Maybe it happens this year (and I hope so, the guy is very easy to root for), but I've grown a bit numb to this argument.

[Ramius]

Great post!

 

This is it in a nutshell.

 

We all love the Bills and want them to win. We know they need a real QB to do that. We all want to see a new Jim Kelly--a player with skill, a fighter, and a born leader.

 

When a young athlete has "it" in any sport, you know it. And it is obvious to everyone, including grandma who doesn't follow sports. EJ isn't that guy and lots of good intentions or well crafted debate in his support is not going to change that.

 

As an aside, the front office and Marrone have foolishly hitched their wagon to EJ. They have placed all their eggs in his basket, and done a poor job at planning for an EJ failure contingency at QB.

 

That, combined with new ownership probably in the form of Pegula, will seal their fate.

 

For all you Marrone haters out there (I'm not one of them) hang in there. This iteration of Bills management and coaching will be gone soon enough when the EJ Project is declared a failure.

 

Pegula has learned his lesson with the Sabres in terms of maintaining the status quo under his ownership. That didn't work. He won't make the same mistake twice. This whole crew will be gone (Brandon may remain in a pure marketing position; he's good at that) and hopefully we can then start to forget the last 15 years or so.

 

Years ago, there was a 20+ page thread on a young QB that "looked the part" and was deemed to have "it." That QB was Matt Leinart.

[John from Riverside]

If you're referring to me, the same thing has been said over and over in this thread and other threads. Note that this particular topic was related to a tangent of what would happen when the new owner comes in and cleans house. There is really only one glaring hole on this roster, and it happens to be the most important one. Whaley has done a decent job with most everything. Except he's playing another high risk game with the most important position. It bit him last year, and he left no room for error this year or next.

 

He is playing the game because it is the best option.....QBs are a lot harder to find then other positions on the team....they need to be handled differently as well.

 

He brought in a legit vet (out of what was available) in Kolb who when healthy showed he could run a team......then Kolb got hurt. I honestly dont believe EJ was the number 1 plan to start the year.....

 

Then Kolb got hurt......and Manuel starts.....

 

Now fast forward to year 2....you dont bring in a vet out of what is available and sit EJ......that train has left the station

 

Years ago, there was a 20+ page thread on a young QB that "looked the part" and was deemed to have "it." That QB was Matt Leinart.

 

Noodle arm

 

FSU alum here. What is really disconcerting about Manuel is how little the book on him has changed since he took his first snap at FSU. He has always been a guy with lots of potential who just needs to find a way to put it all together. Maybe it happens this year (and I hope so, the guy is very easy to root for), but I've grown a bit numb to this argument.

 

Tx

 

It was a risk.....the bills were taking a chance that a QB with a high ceiling could improve. If EJ Manuel didnt at least have some warts coming out of college he would have been a top 3 pick........guys with his size, athletic ability, and arm are just not available.....christ did you see the deal the Bengals QB Dalton got? Dalton doesnt have HALF of EJ's ability.....but has mastered other parts of the QB position.

[Beerball]

Folks....we gotta give EJ this season before making a evaluation

It's funny, isn't it? The entire team from the FO on down to the ball boys, with the exception of the most important player, are in a win now situation. All in...isn't that the phrase we've heard used often? New ownership on the way...gotta have a winning season.

 

Then why was the most important position on the field ignored? Why is the team, as it currently stands, ready to start the season with the same 3 QBs that they ended last (unsuccessful) season with? They upgraded (hopefully) the O-line. They upgraded WR (significantly?). They upgraded LB. They upgraded RB. Why in the name of all that is good and just are they starting this season with the same 3 QBs that ended last season?

[You herd it hear last]

It's funny, isn't it? The entire team from the FO on down to the ball boys, with the exception of the most important player, are in a win now situation. All in...isn't that the phrase we've heard used often? New ownership on the way...gotta have a winning season.

 

Then why was the most important position on the field ignored? Why is the team, as it currently stands, ready to start the season with the same 3 QBs that they ended last (unsuccessful) season with? They upgraded (hopefully) the O-line. They upgraded WR (significantly?). They upgraded LB. They upgraded RB. Why in the name of all that is good and just are they starting this season with the same 3 QBs that ended last season?

 

My guess is and will always be, they built the team up around the developing quarterbacks so that they WOULDN'T have to put the world on their shoulders to win every game. With that comes the chance (albeit not equal) that they will all totally flop or they will get what they needed in the first place. Now, anything above and beyond that, including our hopes of EJ being a superstar, is icing on the cake.

[Beerball]

 

 

What could they have done better? What QB out there would have been so much better that trigger should have been pulled?

I answered this several pages back (& I think GG did too)...Smith.

[FluffHead]

 

FSU alum here. What is really disconcerting about Manuel is how little the book on him has changed since he took his first snap at FSU. He has always been a guy with lots of potential who just needs to find a way to put it all together. Maybe it happens this year (and I hope so, the guy is very easy to root for), but I've grown a bit numb to this argument.

 

This is why I have been firmly in the anti Manuel camp. I've seen his whole career from freshman year to now and it's the same story over and over again. People who didn't watch him closely in college cite his good record and bowl game wins. Those teams won despite his slow starts and accuracy problems. Not a surprise they upgraded at Qb and won the national title the year he left.

[saundena]

 

 

This is why I have been firmly in the anti Manuel camp. I've seen his whole career from freshman year to now and it's the same story over and over again. People who didn't watch him closely in college cite his good record and bowl game wins. Those teams won despite his slow starts and accuracy problems. Not a surprise they upgraded at Qb and won the national title the year he left.

 

Damping evidence. I agree. Hopefully he can change.

[John from Riverside]

I answered this several pages back (& I think GG did too)...Smith.

 

Again a fair enough answer.....

 

The problem with this is when you whittle that answer down to 1 player...how do we know that Smith firmly didnt want to come here....how do we know he didnt want to be with the new HC in Kansas City.

 

Kevin Kolb was one of those perfect "bridge" guys because they wanted to draft a young QB.......they were better that Kolb could have least stay healthy for a while and they guessed wrong.

 

This is why I have been firmly in the anti Manuel camp. I've seen his whole career from freshman year to now and it's the same story over and over again. People who didn't watch him closely in college cite his good record and bowl game wins. Those teams won despite his slow starts and accuracy problems. Not a surprise they upgraded at Qb and won the national title the year he left.

 

And that qb that replaced him will probably be a 1st round overall pick the year he comes out.......

 

You cannot draft in a vacuum. THe fact is he was a successful QB in college with all of the physical attributes. NFL talent evaluator probably thought.....we can fix this.....

 

They are not wrong......YET

[Reed83HOF]

They did last year and he immediately got hurt twice before he could even turn on the machine.

 

[zow2]

Which group of receivers ya think Cam Newton would like to have?

 

Panthers: Jericho Cotchery, Kelvin Benjamin, Tiquan Underwood, Marvin McNutt, Jason Avant

 

Bills: Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Mike Williams, Marquise Goodwin, Chris Hogan (Easley/TJ/Elliott)

 

My point is I think the Bills have given EJ some really nice weapons to work with. Cam Newton really does not have an explosive crew over there. It will be interesting to see how their passing numbers compare.

[Hplarrm]

 

 

The reason why everyone has to keep saying that is because of poor planning when there are better QBs available.

 

For example, most recently, instead of just doing something else with our draft last season, we have to reach and force a QB out of the draft instead of taking another player and either trying to get Manuel in round 2 and allowing us to take a QB in round 1 this season.

 

Just one example. GMs get paid to have a vision and a plan for rebuilding, but ours never do.

On the contrary, even an outside observer like me can see the a plan that the Bills are trying to execute.

 

1. They can see what we can that EJ is not ready this year to carry this team to the playoffs. However, they also can see that there is no QB talent which is reasonably accessible to replace EJ who can carry this team in a Jim Kelly like way.

 

Therefor this team has tried to generate O productivity sufficient to allow this ream to compete for the playoffs by putting substantial resources into improving all other facets of the O so that they can get Ws with EJ simply having to be adequate rather than great.

 

Specifically, these acquisitions are:

 

A. The RBs (Jax and Spiller are a clearly productive strength when healthy and even pretty good when one is badly nicked. Given Jax's age and Spiller's inconsistent dynamism, the Bills braintrust have nicely augmented this talent with getting Bryce Brown who has shown indications that he can be the real deal as part of running attack if either Jax or Spiller goes down. Another nice piece of strategic implementation with the run game is that it even appears our #4 can step up to be a #3 if needed.

 

B. Both Jax and Spiller have nice chops as receivers as well, but the braintrust clearly has shown they have and have succeeded in implementing a strategy to improve the passing game. It appears clear to me why they made the gutsy step of trading significant future resources for Watkins. Watkins is pretty clearly a gamebreaker talent with good YAC ability and great hands and jumpball ability. Even better Watkins comments since draft indicates he has ability and is focusing his work on getting immediate separation from coverage. If successful at this, it should make the job asked of EJ much easier.

 

The #2 WR is Woods and he has both shown talent and also that he and EJ have developed good chemistry. Where your vision question comes in is that the braintrust did not stop at simply getting Watkins, but also plucked up two-time character issue loser but former #1 physical talent Williams as our #3WR. One clearly should not bet on Williams to be your #1, its a not unreasonable effort to lower pressure on him by simply demanding #3 performance and spot production from him. even better, William's past problems clearly show a lack of maturity and bringing him to his hometown where we hope his Mom will reign this child/man is not an impossible thought.

 

On OL there is clearly a plan to try to find 5 starting talents and 1 or 2 swing guys. I like the talent being assembled on the OL: Wood and Glenn- solid starter talent: Cujo (1st round talent injury fear dropped to 2) Williams (former 1st rd pick by Chicago who failed, but seems to have stopped falling as Ram starter who we got as FA), Henderson (1st round physical talent with 8th round brain). doubt we get 3hitsd here but at least 1 and maybe two. Add to that we are looking to upgrade current roster but those players Pears, Urbik, Hairston will be given a chance to compete and improve their play (unlikely) or learn new positions and be not unreasonable plan B swing guys (I think doable in Hairston's case.

 

Ai any rate I think they can find the needed 6 or 7 guys from this crew.

 

The D they are counting on to do well even w/o Alonso (quite possible though tough.

 

The big assumption in mind is that the braintrust has acquired better ST talent but Crossman has show no talent for ST coaching yet.

 

I feel pretty good about the O even though I am pretty sure EJ is not the player (yet?) one should expect to carry the team.

 

Will this strategy work. No guarantee yes, but I like the run they are taking at.

[reddogblitz]

 

 

Who are you calling we, Kimosabe?

 

I was thinking maybe he had a mouse in his pocket because I have no idea how this is going to turn out.

 

Someone else asked if anyone had seen anything to make them think EJ can carry us deep in the playoffs. I won't go that far, but I have seen a heckuva lot more than the Carolina drive. I was at 2 games last year that he played well in and we won. Namely, Baltimore and the Jets at the Ralph. He also played well against Atlanta and Jacksonville and Cleveland before he got injured.

 

I've seen enough to make me think he can be good.

 

Unlike many on here, I think the season doesn't necessarily hinge on EJ. I put the hinges on the defense.

Edited August 7, 2014 by reddogblitz

[YoloinOhio]

 

 

I was thinking maybe he had a mouse in his pocket because I have no idea how this is going to turn out.

 

Someone else asked if anyone had seen anything to make them think EJ can carry us deep in the playoffs. I won't go that far, but I have seen a heckuva lot more than the Carolina drive. I was at 2 games last year that he played well in and we won. Namely, Baltimore and the Jets at the Ralph. He also played well against Atlanta and Jacksonville and Cleveland before he got injured.

 

I've seen enough to make me think he can be good.

 

Unlike many on here, I think the season doesn't necessarily hinge on EJ. I put the hinges on the defense.

you can't use actual games with game plans and consequences to evaluate, reddog. You need to use practices and preseason. Didn't you get the memo...I think it is now in the TOS.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

I see E.J. playing to Snoop dogs Laid Back tune. E.J. is too LAID BACK.

[Kemp]

The fact that EJ stunk against NY along with reading every single day that he stunk in practice, has me wondering why the Bills didn't draft a qb or bring another in.

 

We still read every day that he can't go through progressions and he is inaccurate. The personnel, other than him, is playoff-caliber. If he doesn't figure it out this year, he is toast, as is Whaley and Marrone.

 

I think they are all toast.

 

And us fans are doomed to watching losses for at least this season.

[Wayne Cubed]

The fact that EJ stunk against NY along with reading every single day that he stunk in practice, has me wondering why the Bills didn't draft a qb or bring another in.

 

We still read every day that he can't go through progressions and he is inaccurate. The personnel, other than him, is playoff-caliber. If he doesn't figure it out this year, he is toast, as is Whaley and Marrone.

 

I think they are all toast.

 

And us fans are doomed to watching losses for at least this season.

 

Enjoy the season.

[Cleveland Rocks?]

I see E.J. playing to Snoop dogs Laid Back tune. E.J. is too LAID BACK.

So are Joe Flacco, Russell Wilson and Eli Manning. Everyone has a different personality.

[zow2]

The fact that EJ stunk against NY along with reading every single day that he stunk in practice, has me wondering why the Bills didn't draft a qb or bring another in.

 

We still read every day that he can't go through progressions and he is inaccurate. The personnel, other than him, is playoff-caliber. If he doesn't figure it out this year, he is toast, as is Whaley and Marrone.

 

I think they are all toast.

 

And us fans are doomed to watching losses for at least this season.

 

I'm wondering how I'd feel if we had Manziel right now- as a rookie- instead of a 2nd year EJ. Would anyone feel better about that?

[RuntheDamnBall]

I'm wondering how I'd feel if we had Manziel right now- as a rookie- instead of a 2nd year EJ. Would anyone feel better about that?

Stop staring at me, swan.

[PolishDave]

My main beef with EJ is that he started last year and is starting again this year by the looks of it.

 

I think the Bills were very smart for drafting him if they honestly thought he was the future franchise QB here (which they obviously did think and still do apparently). And I am okay with where they drafted him.

 

My beef is that they KNEW he was and is a project, yet he is starting at QB. He should be on the sideline in a backup role learning from a proven veteran and getting his mechanics straightened out.

 

Kolb was never a proven QB. The dude was possibly the worst QB out there. Anyone who followed Arizona knows this without a doubt. He sucked beyond words there. Yes that bad. You had to watch him play. (Injury prone under-performing whiner lacking leadership skills) There were better QB’s backing other teams up including some 3^rd string QB’s like the Redskins had for example.

 

I think people are smoking crack if they think there wasn’t an Alex Van Pelt available if the Bills really wanted one. And I think an Alex Van Pelt kind of QB (like Fitz was) just might have taken this team to the playoffs last year and again this year.

 

Instead I feel like “if EJ doesn’t work out this year” then the whole thing is going to get blown up again which I don’t want to see happen. I want a new starting QB, a new Offensive Coordinator and a new special teams coach pronto.

 

I want to keep EJ until the coaches truly decide if he has it or not based on his ability to outplay a proven veteran QB in practice. I just don’t want to see him starting regular season games while they do that evaluation. I think it is a waste of an otherwise damn good football team.

[Best Player Available]

My main beef with EJ is that he started last year and is starting again this year by the looks of it

My beef is that they KNEW he was and is a project,

 

I want a new starting QB, a new Offensive Coordinator and a new special teams coach pronto.

 

I want to keep EJ until the coaches truly decide if he has it or not based on his ability to outplay a proven veteran QB in practice.

In 2015 the team may get all three candidates/player you ask for. Possibly more, just no feeling of a playoff caliber QB or OC on the roster today. The special teams coach might be in the NFL if not for Marrone and the cronyism. One month to go before bullets fly. But, the other skill positions look ready to go though.

[eball]

Instead I feel like “if EJ doesn’t work out this year” then the whole thing is going to get blown up again which I don’t want to see happen. I want a new starting QB, a new Offensive Coordinator and a new special teams coach pronto.

 

Yeah...good luck with that. You'll get none of the three and like it.

[Kemp]

 

 

Enjoy the season.

 

I will, until we reach somewhere around Game 8 when every game becomes our last chance to stay alive.

[CountDorkula]

I will, until we reach somewhere around Game 8 when every game becomes our last chance to stay alive.

 

Why bother watching at all then if you know the outcome.

 

Can you alos by chance give me tomorrows mega millions numbers, and tell me which new start up company i should invest my stock into. That would be great.

[John from Riverside]

I will, until we reach somewhere around Game 8 when every game becomes our last chance to stay alive.

 

Why bother watching at all?

[Kemp]

 

 

Why bother watching at all then if you know the outcome.

 

Can you alos by chance give me tomorrows mega millions numbers, and tell me which new start up company i should invest my stock into. That would be great.

 

Pity that you can't tell the difference between evaluating football personnel and predicting lottery results.

 

Analogies is not your strength.

 

 

 

 

[You herd it hear last]

Pity that you can't tell the difference between evaluating football personnel and predicting lottery results.

 

Analogies is not your strength.

 

Grammar are not you'res neither.

[Kemp]

 

 

Why bother watching at all?

 

Because it is fun to watch until it falls apart.

 

Why do you watch at all?

 

How many times in the last 14 years did you think they would be a Super Bowl contender?

 

But you watched. Why are you wasting your time? Or did you believe Edwards, Fitz and Johnson were the answer.

 

Before each season there is some hope, but EJ has looked horrible so far. He might turn it around, but today it seems unlikely. If you feel otherwise I assume you bet over in Vegas.

 

 

 

Grammar are not you'res neither.

 

You'res don't say.

 

If any of you would like to make a wager, I would be happy to bet they won't make the playoffs.

[You herd it hear last]

 

 

If any of you would like to make a wager, I would be happy to bet they won't make the playoffs.

 

I make it a point not to bet with NYJ fans

[Heitz]

The fact that EJ stunk against NY along with reading every single day that he stunk in practice, has me wondering why the Bills didn't draft a qb or bring another in.

 

Selective reading. He hasn't "stunk everyday in practice", by all accounts he's had some ups and downs.

 

Read the Buffalo medias twitter and you'll think he only misses guys and throws pics, listen to John Murphy call practice live and it's a whole different ballgame.

 

But if you're going to give up on the season already, can you also give up on TBD?