papazoid Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Everyone is getting too fancy. If I am the Bills I walk in to the room and do this "Here is the deal. We are tagging you this year and next year. We expect you to be here for OTA's but know you will not be here until July. That's fine with us. Buy us a Big Mac and milkshake and we will call it even. If you piss on our leg we will fine you for even batting an eyelash. If you want out of here you find someone to take you and give us a first or a 21 yr old Peyton Manning. There are no deals and we feel it is worth tagging you two more seasons. By the way. Here is a deal for what is fair 6 years, $56mm with $18mm garuanteed the first two years alone. If you like it, drop it off signed with my secretary. If not, see you in July. Good day" i'm with ya, except tagging him next year is not happening. next years tag value will be the average of the top 5 highest paid QB's which will be in the $17-$20 mil range by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 (edited) That's fine in theory, but there are a few caveats to this approach: 1) Tagging Byrd this year works; tagging him next year means committing to a 44% raise, which would be a salary of $12.1M for one-year, guaranteed in full. 2) Unless Byrd signs the deal, he cannot be fined. Only players under contract can be fined. If he decides to sit out and not sign the tender until after week 10, there isn't a single thing the team can do about it other than rescind the tag and make him an UFA 3) He won't report in July...August at the earliest. At least it gives them a year for a plan to fill that hole. Maybe even the 1st round pick next year is used for a safety. It also gives them the possibility of trade offer from another team that will get them a pick or swap of picks for this coming draft. There is absolutely no reason that I see not to tag Byrd. If they don't do it, then this team is officially a clown organization. Edited March 3, 2014 by 1billsfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Everyone is getting too fancy. If I am the Bills I walk in to the room and do this "Here is the deal. We are tagging you this year and next year. We expect you to be here for OTA's but know you will not be here until July. That's fine with us. Buy us a Big Mac and milkshake and we will call it even. If you piss on our leg we will fine you for even batting an eyelash. If you want out of here you find someone to take you and give us a first or a 21 yr old Peyton Manning. There are no deals and we feel it is worth tagging you two more seasons. By the way. Here is a deal for what is fair 6 years, $56mm with $18mm garuanteed the first two years alone. If you like it, drop it off signed with my secretary. If not, see you in July. Good day" And then...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snamsnoops Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Byrd is a really good FS. I would be pissed to see him walk, he has game changing ability. We drafted him. Then i remember this teams hasnt sniffed post season in well over a decade. Why would they pay a FS 10M a season!!!!!! Nope, I understand it is a passing league and the S position will require more $$ in the future, but to pay a FS 10m, who at this point is probably a little disgruntle over being tagged last year and possible being tagged again. I was all for theme signing or tagging him... Today i am thinking it isnt worth it. Get a decent comp pic next year! wooooooooooo hooooooooooooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 At least it gives them a year for a plan to fill that hole. Maybe even the 1st round pick next year is used for a safety. It also gives them the possibility of trade offer from another team that will get them a pick or swap of picks for this coming draft. There is absolutely no reason that I see not to tag Byrd. If they don't do it, then this team is officially a clown organization. there is a big reason......what if Byrd plays his 100% healthy games....only this time he misses 8-10 games, shows up sometime before week 10 and then goes out again late season. then you've paid $8.4 mil for half a season or less. plus the distraction of everyone talking about the bills and byrd in a negative way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyagi-Do Karate Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Everyone is getting too fancy. If I am the Bills I walk in to the room and do this "Here is the deal. We are tagging you this year and next year. We expect you to be here for OTA's but know you will not be here until July. That's fine with us. Buy us a Big Mac and milkshake and we will call it even. If you piss on our leg we will fine you for even batting an eyelash. If you want out of here you find someone to take you and give us a first or a 21 yr old Peyton Manning. There are no deals and we feel it is worth tagging you two more seasons. By the way. Here is a deal for what is fair 6 years, $56mm with $18mm garuanteed the first two years alone. If you like it, drop it off signed with my secretary. If not, see you in July. Good day" I agree with the concept, but the wording might need to be tweaked. I would just tell him he is tagged. If he would like to continue to negotiate, we are open to it. If he would like to explore a potential trade or would like us to do so for him, we are open to it. If he does what he did last year, that's his right. We will just proceed as we are authorized to do under the CBA. No hard feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 What seems to missing from this discussion is the larger context of the league. I may be wrong, but I'm presuming Byrd has indicated that he'll sit out 10 if he's tagged. I wouldn't blame him either given the context. What I'm referring to is the league's cap situation. It went up a lot - to $133-134 million, and teams have to spend up to 89 percent of the cap. There are a lot of teams which are quite far under this amount, and some of those teams see themselves as "almost there" in terms of competitiveness. They have to spend their money somehow, and it's always better to spend it on elite players who are difference makers. In virtually every account I've read, Byrd is regarded as a top-3 FA prospect. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets $12 million per year from some team, with a hefty amount of it guaranteed ($25-30 million). What the Bills offer with the franchise tag is a mere $8.4 million -- a LOT less. Plus he knows that the Bills can't franchise him next year because they'd have to pay him QB franchise money. So, the plan would be to sit out 10 games, show up for the rest, and then get out of town. He'll get paid next year too. The fact that he sat out for the Bills will not be held against him despite what people here might hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 BS.... They wouldn't even be negotiating if that were true. What makes sense to me is the Bryd camp believes they can get more with 32 bidders than with 1. Maybe Byrd would want to stay if the Bills absolutely blew him away with an offer...Maybe... But if Byrd was asked to give a list of the top 10 teams he would like to play for I doubt very much the Bills would be on that list...And I'm not blaming him for that either...It's understandable... Byrd and his Agent are negotiating because it can do nothing but help frame his market value...It's all good information for them, it does not hurt them, and maybe the Bills give him an offer he can't refuse... I'm not sure it's a matter of whether or not Byrd wants to be in Buffalo anyway...Maybe it's better to say that he would rather play elsewhere if all thing were equal... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 How is it that Byrd missing 6 games with plantar faciitis doesn't hurt him on the open market? Because everybody and their grandmother knows that was a fake injury. It can not be proven by any objective test like a X-ray or MRI or whatever. He had all summer to get it cured but somehow that wasn't enough time. If we tag him, then it will flare up again for 8 games. Franchise salaries are not docked for missing games. What probably has already happened is Parker has threatened another unproveable medical holdout. All it takes is a raised eyebrow by him and the Bills know the fix is on. The Bills can not accuse him of lying/cheating/faking or they have a big lawsuit on the hands that they know they can not win. Life stinks doesn't it. (((insert best dead lawyer joke here: XXXXXX) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Because everybody and their grandmother knows that was a fake injury. It can not be proven by any objective test like a X-ray or MRI or whatever. He had all summer to get it cured but somehow that wasn't enough time. If we tag him, then it will flare up again for 8 games. Franchise salaries are not docked for missing games. What probably has already happened is Parker has threatened another unproveable medical holdout. All it takes is a raised eyebrow by him and the Bills know the fix is on. The Bills can not accuse him of lying/cheating/faking or they have a big lawsuit on the hands that they know they can not win. Life stinks doesn't it. (((insert best dead lawyer joke here: XXXXXX) It's not a holdout if he hasn't signed the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turftoe Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 It would be stupid to just let Byrd walk. It's time to Tag and Trade. Tell his agent to find a trading partner. There will be teams interested in trading once he gets the tag. No team is going to show interest at this point since they are waiting to see if they can get him without compensation. I would ask for a late first or an early second. There are plenty of teams with a need for safety that would be willing to deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Okay folks here is the reality. #1 Byrd is threatening to only play part of next year if the Bills franchise him. He got away with it last year and can do it again. The Bills can not accuse him of that without getting their backside sued for lowering Byrd's earnings potential.......#2 Byrd thinks he is worth $10M a year plus, and he might find a fool to give him that money. He will get more money if the new team does not have to compensate the Bills for a trade, and (with #1) can make that the situation...............These things are true, unchangeable and just get used to them....................... #3 The Bills must have shopped Byrd last year and every moment since as a backup plan. Even if they didn't, there are 31 other teams who are competitive and have been making what they feel are fair offers. (they want to win just as much as anybody). They did not get any offers that got them much better than the compensation for losing a free agent. They are not getting any better offers now, and frankly every team can see how this is going to play out. .............#4 Byrd is not worth more the $6-7M a year, in my opinion and I hope he is greatly disappointed. I think anybody who is a Byrd fan and refuses to see how Byrd is scheissing on Buffalo is a fool and idiot. ...................#5 It is not a great loss. I would rather play an average FS (not a special position in our defense) $5M and use that extra $5M that might have gone to Byrd, add it to another $5M and get the best free agent veteran right offensive tackle. THEN not draft a ROT in the first round and get a stud WR instead. Which way do you think the Bills would look better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I'm probably in the vast minority but imo letting Levitre walk was a far worse move than losing Byrd. We actually kept Byrd for a season. We let go of Levitre, and brought in a rookie qb who seems to need all the help he can get, and I'm being kind. Despite what you and I think about EJ, I am sure we both agree that he should have had a good supporting cast around him. Levitre was an important cog of the OL and should have been kept or a good replacement obtained. Also, it was highly premature to have let David Nelson go as he had very good hands and was a great outlet/short reception option. Another point is that, I don't know why keeping Byrd and Levitre are mutually exclusive. There is enough money to have kept both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plenzmd1 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 It would be stupid to just let Byrd walk. It's time to Tag and Trade. Tell his agent to find a trading partner. There will be teams interested in trading once he gets the tag. No team is going to show interest at this point since they are waiting to see if they can get him without compensation. I would ask for a late first or an early second. There are plenty of teams with a need for safety that would be willing to deal. that is never, ever happening.You are forgetting they still have to pay him, plus give up a first...never in a million years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 It's not a holdout if he hasn't signed the deal. That eyebrow has already been raised. Maybe last year, maybe early this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 At least it gives them a year for a plan to fill that hole. Maybe even the 1st round pick next year is used for a safety. It also gives them the possibility of trade offer from another team that will get them a pick or swap of picks for this coming draft. There is absolutely no reason that I see not to tag Byrd. If they don't do it, then this team is officially a clown organization. I fully agree that they should tag Byrd. The only reason I can think of is that they are close enough to the situation to know that they'd have a malcontent on their hands, and don't want to deal with it. Personally, I'd tag him anyway...then again, I'm not the person that has to deal with any locker room ramifications resulting from taking the hard line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 The best trade offer the wole of last year was a 4th. The Bills are calculating that the risk nobody trades for him and then he sits out as many games as possible with an "injury" whilst we pay him $8.4million is not worth to potential extra 4th round pick. If there was even a chance that there was a team out there willing to talk 2nd rounder the Bills would be tagging him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 What seems to missing from this discussion is the larger context of the league. I may be wrong, but I'm presuming Byrd has indicated that he'll sit out 10 if he's tagged. I wouldn't blame him either given the context. What I'm referring to is the league's cap situation. It went up a lot - to $133-134 million, and teams have to spend up to 89 percent of the cap. There are a lot of teams which are quite far under this amount, and some of those teams see themselves as "almost there" in terms of competitiveness. They have to spend their money somehow, and it's always better to spend it on elite players who are difference makers. In virtually every account I've read, Byrd is regarded as a top-3 FA prospect. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets $12 million per year from some team, with a hefty amount of it guaranteed ($25-30 million). What the Bills offer with the franchise tag is a mere $8.4 million -- a LOT less. Plus he knows that the Bills can't franchise him next year because they'd have to pay him QB franchise money. So, the plan would be to sit out 10 games, show up for the rest, and then get out of town. He'll get paid next year too. The fact that he sat out for the Bills will not be held against him despite what people here might hope. yes it would because he won't be ready to play, his teammates (while normally want a player to get what he can) would think he screwed them, the team will likely play the last few games out of the playoffs and he won't look nearly like a 12 million a year player. I think it could hurt him substantially. I think he threatens to sit out but doesnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maryland-bills-fan Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Despite what you and I think about EJ, I am sure we both agree that he should have had a good supporting cast around him. Levitre was an important cog of the OL and should have been kept or a good replacement obtained. Also, it was highly premature to have let David Nelson go as he had very good hands and was a great outlet/short reception option. Another point is that, I don't know why keeping Byrd and Levitre are mutually exclusive. There is enough money to have kept both. I do not agree with our having to pay excessive amounts for "Tiny Tim" Levitre. He was a finess, good-feet pass blocker and by 20 pounds the lightest guy on the o-line. He could not get push on the big nose tackles in our division and does not fit the power running game that Marrone is putting in place here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 The point it started out looking like a great option for the teams then it wasn't when the players reacted like they were being sent to a Turkish prison.... therefore going down and a bad look these days unless it is simply to buy more time to get a deal done where both sides WANT to get a deal done. His flip phone would fit in quite well in Cleveland... Hey, as a Turkish person I find that offensive, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan in Chicago Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I do not agree with our having to pay excessive amounts for "Tiny Tim" Levitre. He was a finess, good-feet pass blocker and by 20 pounds the lightest guy on the o-line. He could not get push on the big nose tackles in our division and does not fit the power running game that Marrone is putting in place here. We can differ on our opinion regarding Levitre, but note that I also wrote "or a good replacement obtained" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 i will say, hitting unrestricted free agency is something im curious to see after this all --- itll be interesting to see what he gets vs what we have speculated he might. 12m would surprise me, but with the big cap jump and spending floors, we might see some surprising numbers on guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 And then...? combo #4 no tomatoes. Baja blast. No ice. Two loaded potato grillers, one chalupa, and one chicken quesidialia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 All he needs is one team to pay him more than Buffalo offered to validate his position...and I am sure he will get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 I believe he will sign for less money than anticipated here. He just wants out of Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leh-nerd skin-erd Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 What seems to missing from this discussion is the larger context of the league. I may be wrong, but I'm presuming Byrd has indicated that he'll sit out 10 if he's tagged. I wouldn't blame him either given the context. What I'm referring to is the league's cap situation. It went up a lot - to $133-134 million, and teams have to spend up to 89 percent of the cap. There are a lot of teams which are quite far under this amount, and some of those teams see themselves as "almost there" in terms of competitiveness. They have to spend their money somehow, and it's always better to spend it on elite players who are difference makers. In virtually every account I've read, Byrd is regarded as a top-3 FA prospect. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets $12 million per year from some team, with a hefty amount of it guaranteed ($25-30 million). What the Bills offer with the franchise tag is a mere $8.4 million -- a LOT less. Plus he knows that the Bills can't franchise him next year because they'd have to pay him QB franchise money. So, the plan would be to sit out 10 games, show up for the rest, and then get out of town. He'll get paid next year too. The fact that he sat out for the Bills will not be held against him despite what people here might hope. which means that they should let him walk, no? i don't think you pay a guy $2m more than you think he's worth because you have cap space. i don't even think you tag a guy for $8.4 when you figure he's going to potentially sit 8, 9, or 10 games. i think the bills organization is rightly criticized for years on inpetitude, and perhaps byrd's thought is 'screw 'em, thime to go'. if so, you get what you get. on the other hand, it's become failry clear to me that it's not as simple as "pay him" or "tag and trade'. if it was that simple, it would be done, one way or the other. my read---they understand intelectually that it makes sense for a player to have a long term deal v. a franchise tag, but from where the rubber hits the road---they guy was late to the practice field, missed a large part of the season and it still cost millions. perhaps they feel he was dogging it, and while understandable last year...why bash your head against the wall all over again? Why go down that road when you can see itn playing out that way again? as for byrd--the compassionate human being inside of me understands what he's thinking, and it's far from personal. the football fan side of me thinks if he goes after they offered him a substantial deal that seems to make sense--he's a mercenary and it's a waste of time to think any more about it other than to wish him bad football mojo wherever he goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealityCheck Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 combo #4 no tomatoes. Baja blast. No ice. Two loaded potato grillers, one chalupa, and one chicken quesidialia ...and then........? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 yes it would because he won't be ready to play, his teammates (while normally want a player to get what he can) would think he screwed them, the team will likely play the last few games out of the playoffs and he won't look nearly like a 12 million a year player. I think it could hurt him substantially. I think he threatens to sit out but doesnt. His teammates will not think he screwed them. They understand it's a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 His teammates will not think he screwed them. They understand it's a business. Up to a point, and as you know I stated they normally do support players getting as much as they can. It's impossible for either of us to know, but to me, him sitting out for ten games is a pisspot move. He would make more money if he plays. They understand the business, sure, but this wouldn't be about getting more money for himself, which they all want to see. This is about deliberately hurting the team and walking away. Me thinks he gets more money if he plays, and if they tag him, i think he plays. Maybe miss a game or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 ...and then........? ooh ooh. Tough one. I'd like to buy a vowel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 It would be stupid to just let Byrd walk. It's time to Tag and Trade. Tell his agent to find a trading partner. There will be teams interested in trading once he gets the tag. No team is going to show interest at this point since they are waiting to see if they can get him without compensation. I would ask for a late first or an early second. There are plenty of teams with a need for safety that would be willing to deal. His agent spent all last offseason trying to find a trading partner. The only offer was a 4th from Minnesota. I don't think the market for Byrd is as vast as everyone thinks it is. But all it takes is one team and I have a hunch Parker knows who that team is. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dean Cain Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 His agent spent all last offseason trying to find a trading partner. The only offer was a 4th from Minnesota. I don't think the market for Byrd is as vast as everyone thinks it is. But all it takes is one team and I have a hunch Parker knows who that team is. GO BILLS!!! I strongly believe that the Eagles will go hard for Byrd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 parker is schooling russ again. Yes, by refusing to agree to any offer the Bills make. What is the lesson here? Don't negotiate with a dick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
section122 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 there is a big reason......what if Byrd plays his 100% healthy games....only this time he misses 8-10 games, shows up sometime before week 10 and then goes out again late season. then you've paid $8.4 mil for half a season or less. plus the distraction of everyone talking about the bills and byrd in a negative way. I really can't see him sitting out and blaming health as the reason. This would be huge detriment to him going into next years free agency. Back to back years with injuries does not get someone a huge multi-year deal. If he does plain sit out then the contract will be pro rated for the games he signs for. The reason he got the full deal last year is he signed it before the 1st game so as not to lose any money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobinaz Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Ed Werder (maybe not so credible) is reporting that it's not true that Byrd turned downt the $30million offer from Bills. Maybe fodder coming from Parker camp to make Bills look bad. Too much speculation going on here. Does anyone know the real poop out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heitz Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Here's the tweet: Ed Werder @Edwerderespn I'm told that it is not true that Bills safety Jairus Byrd turned down $30 million guaranteed to remain in Buffalo. They're talking about this now on Sirius, but no new insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 His teammates will not think he screwed them. They understand it's a business. Remember that the majority of players on the Bills are making peanuts compared to a 9-10 million dollar a year contract. Now, if it comes out that Byrd was offered a 9-10 million dollar a year contract by the Bills making him the highest payed safety in the league and Byrd pulls a half season long disappearing act...I'm thinking that he's definitely going to get some blowback from his teammates. He certainly isn't going to be getting any sympathy from them. Having said that, if the Bills turn the corner in a serious way this year there's the chance Byrd's chilliness starts to melt and he really wants to stay after all. That can happen as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinInThe781 Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Here's the tweet: Ed Werder @Edwerderespn I'm told that it is not true that Bills safety Jairus Byrd turned down $30 million guaranteed to remain in Buffalo. They're talking about this now on Sirius, but no new insight. JW's response to Ed is worth including too - John Wawrow @john_wawrow 11m @Edwerderespn uhh, who reported $30 million guaranteed, or the fact Byrd turned it down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Ed Werder (maybe not so credible) is reporting that it's not true that Byrd turned downt the $30million offer from Bills. Maybe fodder coming from Parker camp to make Bills look bad. Too much speculation going on here. Does anyone know the real poop out there? People need to read closely and think for ten seconds. The report yesterday was that the Bills offered $30m over three years. That was not the total length of the contract, and it was not guaranteed 30m, it was just 30m over the first three years. Werder just said that what Byrd turned down was not $30m guaranteed. That's consistent with yesterday's report, it simply clarifies it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted March 3, 2014 Share Posted March 3, 2014 Tag deadline is 4pm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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