Chicken Boo Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Word is, one of the suspects may be a minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 4 hours ago, boyst said: They had machine guns when it was passed. They also had large calibre weapons. They were also visionaries to expect that there would be advancements in firearms. The average revolutionary saw 2 major wars and a lot of advancement in warcraft. They also were visionaries that understood that as things changed the constitution would need to change, so they made it possible to make amendments to it. The originalist interpretation point of view is logically contradictory and is only leverage when convenient and you're literally proving it here. The activist judiciary turned out to be the very people warning against the "crazy activist judiciary" all these years...star wars prequel level stuff there is what that is 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 3 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: And this applies to this topic, how exactly? Many on the right just say it’s a mental health issue. If that’s the case then bring up and pass legislation to improve mental health. I’ve seen nothing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 2 hours ago, julian said: Yeah 100% correct, I think Chicago is really the only city that’s had any substantial reporting on the epidemic of shootings and hand gun violence in the black communities. It still doesn’t get the nations attention like these mass shootings because the national MSM has decided mass shootings will help with the anti-gun narrative they’re clearly pushing because they don’t believe people value young black men shooting each other like they value the innocent white bystanders being gunned down. its pretty obvious, they don’t even try to hide their agenda. Sure, but getting bogged down in stats misses the point, the media and politicians don’t give a damn because almost all those shootings are perpetrated with handguns by young black men against young black men. Here's the thing, I'm able to find some middle ground there and I think we can have a genuine good faith debate, because I do think there is some truth in the media not reporting on this, just like the media doesn't report on missing women of color a whole bunch, but if it's a pretty blonde white girl it's national news. Them having a pro gun ban agenda, I don't know...I mean I think if they had any agenda at all, and if I was going to think they were legit psychopaths, I'd say they make way more money with there being mass shootings...if the media actually had an agenda to get rid of guns, I'd argue they would do a much much much better job of actually getting rid of guns...they made people believe that diamonds are actually valuable and that you need to spend a crap ton of money to buy them as an engagement ring, which was a crazy marketing and media agenda. Problem is, I've had these types of conversations with people before (I was living in Ft Lauderdale when the Parkland shooting happened and thought things were really going to change after that one, and then they started getting called crisis actors...in the media and by politicians, so truly I think it might be worth re-evaluating where the agenda potentially might be, because I don't think you're trying to come at this from a bad faith argument) Anyway, I truly I understand it's a highly nuanced issue and am truly open to listening and getting past the talking points that would set each other off onto conditioned tracks of conversation that are built on purpose to prevent us from being able to collaborate and compromise and actually change stuff (I dunno, feel like I learned that from George Carlin), and really listen to what you are trying to say, and not how you're saying it. Here's the problem though, because this happens basically every time I try this...someone claims there are all these systemic issues leading to gun violence, but then when I mention yes, there are systemic issues like redlining and a bunch of things impacting, yes disproportionately people of color, but also people of all low socioeconomic levels, the invariable response back is that's made up, it's not true, I am not open to entertaining that line of thought for a moment, it's in the past and people need to work harder, basically...boot straps and all. There is also a huge increase in hopelessness and lack of connection, which sadly is being exacerbated by income inequality and it continues to get worse and instead of coming together to figure out a solution, there has been a consistent agenda to take any possible solution, break it in half and put those solutions on two sides of a fence and prevent people from being able to talk to one another and realize the only solution is to work together. I do think there is an agenda that led to that, I do think it's a media agenda, I could listen to it being a both sides thing and in many many ways it is in terms of not reporting on actual stuff and instead just focusing on if it bleeds it leads... but I also am looking around and suddenly out of nowhere people are terrified and angry at Taylor Swift, and they were suddenly out of nowhere terrified and angry at something else and next month it will be something else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 9 hours ago, Gugny said: Nearly all of the mass shootings in this country have been by US citizens with legally-obtained firearms. link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zow2 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 8 hours ago, julian said: Yeah 100% correct, I think Chicago is really the only city that’s had any substantial reporting on the epidemic of shootings and hand gun violence in the black communities. It still doesn’t get the nations attention like these mass shootings because the national MSM has decided mass shootings will help with the anti-gun narrative they’re clearly pushing because they don’t believe people value young black men shooting each other like they value the innocent white bystanders being gunned down. its pretty obvious, they don’t even try to hide their agenda. Sure, but getting bogged down in stats misses the point, the media and politicians don’t give a damn because almost all those shootings are perpetrated with handguns by young black men against young black men. Gun violence is more of an inner city violence thing. Yes, there are shootings everywhere but I live near DC and the gun usage and deaths in certain areas is off the chain...and it spills over. They track down some of these violent lunatics who do crimes in the suburbs and many come up from DC to rob, car jack and kill. I blame the people doing these acts and the glorified culture of violence more than the actual guns. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 6 hours ago, HardyBoy said: They also were visionaries that understood that as things changed the constitution would need to change, so they made it possible to make amendments to it. The originalist interpretation point of view is logically contradictory and is only leverage when convenient and you're literally proving it here. The activist judiciary turned out to be the very people warning against the "crazy activist judiciary" all these years...star wars prequel level stuff there is what that is i'm sorry i can't even begin to fathom someone using Star Wars as an argument in their statements. The Constitution could be amended but our representation is too busy trying to divide us than work together to find solutions. Our leadership is too busy ruling by executive fiat vs taking the reigns to direct our country. Our only salvation is the judicial system which keeps things working slowly because they understand that solutions of sweeping change are best made with deliberate, sane, and processed thought instead of grandiose pen and paper memos, social media photo ops, and soapbox sermons. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 9 minutes ago, boyst said: link? https://www.statista.com/statistics/476461/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-legality-of-shooters-weapons/ “100 of the mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and December 2023 involved weapons which were obtained legally; a clear majority. Only 16 incidents involved guns that were obtained illegally.” Edited February 15 by Gugny 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 14 minutes ago, Gugny said: https://www.statista.com/statistics/476461/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-legality-of-shooters-weapons/ “100 of the mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and December 2023 involved weapons which were obtained legally; a clear majority. Only 16 incidents involved guns that were obtained illegally.” i'll dive into this. i know the whole thing about more gun deaths than car wrecks is not accurate but often pushed misleadingly. remove suicides by gun which are over 50% of gun deaths and the numbers change drastically. the mass shootings information may have some flaws. the fbi database is pretty skewed, as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 10 minutes ago, boyst said: i'll dive into this. i know the whole thing about more gun deaths than car wrecks is not accurate but often pushed misleadingly. remove suicides by gun which are over 50% of gun deaths and the numbers change drastically. the mass shootings information may have some flaws. the fbi database is pretty skewed, as well. Glad to know you’re on the case! Keep us posted 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 You guys!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 10 minutes ago, SWATeam said: Glad to know you’re on the case! Keep us posted We are blessed to have not only many Bills fans here, but political experts too 😎 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 45 minutes ago, boyst said: i'm sorry i can't even begin to fathom someone using Star Wars as an argument in their statements. The Constitution could be amended but our representation is too busy trying to divide us than work together to find solutions. Our leadership is too busy ruling by executive fiat vs taking the reigns to direct our country. Our only salvation is the judicial system which keeps things working slowly because they understand that solutions of sweeping change are best made with deliberate, sane, and processed thought instead of grandiose pen and paper memos, social media photo ops, and soapbox sermons. You completely missed my point. The current judiciary is an activist judiciary... they ignore precident, maybe you just don't notice because they're either doing what you like, or much more likely the, let me see if I can use these the right way, the right wing media cabal isn't shouting "activist justices, activist justices" so they're not activating their subjects with the queen of hearts (yes that is an original Manchurian Candidate reference). It's funny you say that the representatives are trying to divide us, but as soon as anyone mentioned anything that triggered you a tiny little bit, you melted and started dividing this thread and not allowing a natural discussion to flow...that wasn't a representative in power in far off Washington, that was you. And people use stories all the time to make points, the star wars prequels, as much as they got lambasted for it at the time, are an amazing insight into how a fascist government can come into power through legal means, it's extremely relevant and also extremely nuanced because the jedi order are not necessarily all good by any means either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 6 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Many on the right just say it’s a mental health issue. If that’s the case then bring up and pass legislation to improve mental health. I’ve seen nothing. An excellent point ….and if you read through my posts in this thread you’ll find I’ve advocated for one thing, and one thing only: That everyone needs to simmer down, show some respect for those who were hurt or killed, and to wait to learn more about what actually happened before rushing in to solve a virtual cornucopia of society’s problems. Instead, I’ve read that this sad incident should be the launching point to fix student debt, the nuclear family, assault weapons, the second amendment in general, and yes mental health. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PayDaBill$ Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) Only conjecture but i wouldn’t be surprised at all if this isn’t tied to street gangs. KC is no Disney Land. Edited February 15 by PayDaBill$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lost Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 6 hours ago, oldmanfan said: Many on the right just say it’s a mental health issue. If that’s the case then bring up and pass legislation to improve mental health. I’ve seen nothing. I'm in favor of reopening mental institutions in the US. Lot of people with mental health issues these days it seems. I'd rather see some of them get some help and treatment somewhere before they go off the deep end and commit acts of violence and spend life in prison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 41 minutes ago, HardyBoy said: You completely missed my point. The current judiciary is an activist judiciary... they ignore precident, maybe you just don't notice because they're either doing what you like, or much more likely the, let me see if I can use these the right way, the right wing media cabal isn't shouting "activist justices, activist justices" so they're not activating their subjects with the queen of hearts (yes that is an original Manchurian Candidate reference). It's funny you say that the representatives are trying to divide us, but as soon as anyone mentioned anything that triggered you a tiny little bit, you melted and started dividing this thread and not allowing a natural discussion to flow...that wasn't a representative in power in far off Washington, that was you. And people use stories all the time to make points, the star wars prequels, as much as they got lambasted for it at the time, are an amazing insight into how a fascist government can come into power through legal means, it's extremely relevant and also extremely nuanced because the jedi order are not necessarily all good by any means either. there is no use replying to this post. we disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) Literally can't feel safe anywhere. Someone needs to fix this. Mental health, guns regs, whatever it is. Edited February 15 by May Day 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PayDaBill$ Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 1 hour ago, Gugny said: https://www.statista.com/statistics/476461/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-legality-of-shooters-weapons/ “100 of the mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and December 2023 involved weapons which were obtained legally; a clear majority. Only 16 incidents involved guns that were obtained illegally.” All depends on what’s behind that data. Somehow I think all the firearm gang violence and “street” crime & criminal acts are left out under the “mass” shooting designation. If so you’d have to think just Chicago alone would skew those numbers in the opposite direction. Edited February 15 by PayDaBill$ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 16 hours ago, Bills!Win! said: They’re all there to celebrate the same thing. How can gun violence be involved? I just don’t get it 16 hours ago, boyst said: there are reports of another suspect trying to force their way into the nearby IRS building. FBI SWAT and Homeland are rushing to that area. As for why this or understanding it - mental illness is not easily understood. It's called gangs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 47 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said: We are blessed to have not only many Bills fans here, but political experts too 😎 there is no political opinions that were there. it was a response based upon statistics. facts are not opinions. a majority of gun deaths are suicides. Less than 2% are accidental. Somewhere around 40% are homicides. Of those I would have to check again but a small number are considered mass casualty events (4+ deaths) on the standard metric. Stanford had lowered that to 3+, IIRC. Further, of the roughly 40% of homicides, at least half are obtained illegally. The ATF put out a very flawed and critiqued report when they offered the most recent data which put in untraceable firearms in the same category as stolen guns and "other deadly weapons of destruction." Further, less than 15% of the shooters in homicides showed no propensity towards violence or a criminal background. Bringing it back up to simply gun crimes/violence; roughly 3/4 of those committing those infractions already possess arrest/criminal records. Regardless, these are important factors. They're not political statements. Recidivism, treatment of crime and mental illness, as well as an examination of the causation of crime/violence are pertinent to the discussion. 4 minutes ago, PayDaBill$ said: All depends on what’s behind that data. Somehow I think all the firearm gang violence and “street” crime & criminal acts are left out under the “mass” shooting designation. If so you’d have to think just Chicago alone would skew those numbers in the opposite direction. There are some alarming numbers of gun violence % if you remove the 6 biggest cities in the country, those cities all posses some of the strictest gun laws in the country mind you. people flock to believe anything that confirms their bias. someone mentioned it upthread i believe. you're more likely to be bit by a person in central park than by a shark in the ocean. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flipnmi Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 9 hours ago, muppy said: greetings. I personally think that the motive may come out. But I am less interested in that as I am the overview of who the shooters were, ages, etc. Even then the parents of these individuals might, I say MIGHT be fine upstanding people. Or NOT. The Parkland school shooters Mother was recently convicted for her sons being enabled to take a gun and shoot to kill 4 kids. The dad goes on trial next. Noone arrested yet. Clearly developing story . It was the mother of the Oxford Mi HS shooter that was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, not Parkland. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: An excellent point ….and if you read through my posts in this thread you’ll find I’ve advocated for one thing, and one thing only: That everyone needs to simmer down, show some respect for those who were hurt or killed, and to wait to learn more about what actually happened before rushing in to solve a virtual cornucopia of society’s problems. Instead, I’ve read that this sad incident should be the launching point to fix student debt, the nuclear family, assault weapons, the second amendment in general, and yes mental health. In isolation, of course we should let some time go by and mourn the people impacted. Problem is, this isn't an isolated thing...the way the news cycle works is this is going to be thoughts and prayers, anything else isn't respectful..then spend two days arguing it's too soon and a political ploy by the radical left to take away guns (all like literal nra/gun lobby talking points it has been proven and factually reported) and just the same play book over and over. The gun lobby is incredibly powerful, have driven an intentional media and marketing campaign to any reasonable gun legislation, which the vast majority of Americans agree with some level of oversight and regulation. I guess I'm also kind of confused, because we have other amendments that are being legislated and the judiciary sets precedent on all the time that changed and defines the constitution, like Miranda Warnings and such, but you only hear widespread outrage over the 2nd ammendment, when it literally says the words well regulated in the text of it. That's not a political statement either, that's a why is it that people get so worked up about perceived infringement of the 2nd ammendment that it's a literal non-starter, when people aren't trying to talk about infringement, but genuine good faith regulation, but then when you look at something like due process or the government having access to ring camera footage or other types of huge data privacy oversteps by the government, you really don't hear anything. Like the social conditioning aspect of this is insanely interesting to me. I think the secret is to really stop focusing on how people are saying it, and to focus on what they are actually saying...like yeah, that maybe sounded a bit insensitive, but this is a super nuanced topic and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that that was a super nuanced answer, so what exactly do you mean and what exactly are you trying to say, instead of shutting down and just allowing oneself to react in the way we've been conditioned by our respective algorithms. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muppy Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 4 minutes ago, Flipnmi said: It was the mother of the Oxford Mi HS shooter that was found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, not Parkland. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, teef said: You guys!!!!!!! What are your thoughts on me, last week, eating McDonald's breakfast 5 days in a row because they had Sausage McMuffins, 2 for $4.39? I couldn't do day 6 because that's just too much McDonald's. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsatlastin2018 Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Because of the pro gun 2nd Amendment decisions made over the past decades,it no longer matters whether the shooter’s gun is legal or illegal. With an estimated 400 million in circulation, every half sane individual with any agenda about anything/person/institution/cause knows where to get one or three. From his family, from his neighbours, from his friends, from his associates. The resulting massacres are a never ending horror show in America- unstoppable. A law or laws federally, state wide or municipally are de facto useless. You would need to wind the clock back a half century and make the vast majority of guns unobtainable for the vast majority of people- not called law enforcement, farmers, hunters, gun clubs, etc. That choice is gone forever in America. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 5 minutes ago, HardyBoy said: In isolation, of course we should let some time go by and mourn the people impacted. Problem is, this isn't an isolated thing...the way the news cycle works is this is going to be thoughts and prayers, anything else isn't respectful..then spend two days arguing it's too soon and a political ploy by the radical left to take away guns (all like literal nra/gun lobby talking points it has been proven and factually reported) and just the same play book over and over. The gun lobby is incredibly powerful, have driven an intentional media and marketing campaign to any reasonable gun legislation, which the vast majority of Americans agree with some level of oversight and regulation. I guess I'm also kind of confused, because we have other amendments that are being legislated and the judiciary sets precedent on all the time that changed and defines the constitution, like Miranda Warnings and such, but you only hear widespread outrage over the 2nd ammendment, when it literally says the words well regulated in the text of it. That's not a political statement either, that's a why is it that people get so worked up about perceived infringement of the 2nd ammendment that it's a literal non-starter, when people aren't trying to talk about infringement, but genuine good faith regulation, but then when you look at something like due process or the government having access to ring camera footage or other types of huge data privacy oversteps by the government, you really don't hear anything. Like the social conditioning aspect of this is insanely interesting to me. I think the secret is to really stop focusing on how people are saying it, and to focus on what they are actually saying...like yeah, that maybe sounded a bit insensitive, but this is a super nuanced topic and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that that was a super nuanced answer, so what exactly do you mean and what exactly are you trying to say, instead of shutting down and just allowing oneself to react in the way we've been conditioned by our respective algorithms. That’s a lot of words to say you want the government to impose significant limitations on gun ownership. You’ll notice I’ve not said that I’m either for or against it. I’m just personally exhausted from the social media driven ‘jump to conclusions’ crowd. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 16 minutes ago, boyst said: there is no political opinions that were there. it was a response based upon statistics. facts are not opinions. a majority of gun deaths are suicides. Less than 2% are accidental. Somewhere around 40% are homicides. Of those I would have to check again but a small number are considered mass casualty events (4+ deaths) on the standard metric. Stanford had lowered that to 3+, IIRC. Further, of the roughly 40% of homicides, at least half are obtained illegally. The ATF put out a very flawed and critiqued report when they offered the most recent data which put in untraceable firearms in the same category as stolen guns and "other deadly weapons of destruction." Further, less than 15% of the shooters in homicides showed no propensity towards violence or a criminal background. Bringing it back up to simply gun crimes/violence; roughly 3/4 of those committing those infractions already possess arrest/criminal records. Regardless, these are important factors. They're not political statements. Recidivism, treatment of crime and mental illness, as well as an examination of the causation of crime/violence are pertinent to the discussion. There are some alarming numbers of gun violence % if you remove the 6 biggest cities in the country, those cities all posses some of the strictest gun laws in the country mind you. people flock to believe anything that confirms their bias. someone mentioned it upthread i believe. you're more likely to be bit by a person in central park than by a shark in the ocean. Do you have a point with all the data and stats you’re throwing out there??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boyst Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 6 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said: Do you have a point with all the data and stats you’re throwing out there??? A. it's not a black/white issue. There are multiple levels to the onions 2) Gun violence is a specific problem in some communities not a national problem iii. Any statistic is only 97.36% accurate on topical face. Also, final post here. 12+ hours after the issue. The perps haven't been named, the national story will be dropped in a few days, this will be forgotten quickly because of the narrative being false. Edited February 15 by boyst 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Fan Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 10 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: I find it interesting that you consider people not being able to pay off a loan they freely took out for a higher education to be an example of life being hard. Really? That’s your example? I think this really depends on a person's age. I was in high school in the 1990s and 2000s and the idea we must go to college was really pushed hard I thought on our generation. Like you won't be successful in life without it. And yeah at 17 I wasn't exactly the best long term planner. So in that sense I have sympathy for kids that racked up the debt. But I hear what you're saying. It seems less and less boys these days go to college for this and other reasons imo. Understanding debt accumulation is one of them. Edited February 15 by Another Fan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 (edited) 2 hours ago, Gugny said: https://www.statista.com/statistics/476461/mass-shootings-in-the-us-by-legality-of-shooters-weapons/ “100 of the mass shootings in the United States between 1982 and December 2023 involved weapons which were obtained legally; a clear majority. Only 16 incidents involved guns that were obtained illegally.” They don't disclose what they consider "obtained legally" to mean. They also parrot the popular misconception that it's easy to obtain guns through the mythical "gun show loophole". Private sales can happen depending on the state, but people aren't selling their private collection pieces to gang bangers from the big cities. I've seen "obtained legally" counted as meaning ORIGINALLY obtained legally, as in purchased new from a dealer and not smuggled into the country directly to the black market. This means guns that were stolen from a legal owner, then get used by whatever gang member does a shooting gets counted as a "legally obtained" gun. They also count when someone passes a background check they shouldn't have, because screwy policing led to stuff not getting properly logged into their permanent records. Edited February 15 by 1ManRaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bermuda Triangle Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 13 minutes ago, boyst said: A. it's not a black/white issue. There are multiple levels to the onions 2) Gun violence is a specific problem in some communities not a national problem iii. Any statistic is only 97.36% accurate on topical face. Also, final post here. 12+ hours after the issue. The perps haven't been named, the national story will be dropped in a few days, this will be forgotten quickly because of the narrative being false. the "national story will be dropped in a few days, this will be forgotten quickly" because we'll have another mass shooting in the next few days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 If somebody changes someone else’s mind in this discussion, it just may be the first time in history on this topic. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 7 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said: They don't disclose what they consider "obtained legally" to mean. They also parrot the popular misconception that it's easy to obtain guns through the mythical "gun show loophole". Private sales can happen depending on the state, but people aren't selling their private collection pieces to gang bangers from the big cities. I've seen "obtained legally" counted as meaning ORIGINALLY obtained legally, as in purchased new from a dealer and not smuggled into the country directly to the black market. This means guns that were stolen from a legal owner, then get used by whatever gang member does a shooting gets counted as a "legally obtained" gun. They also count when someone passes a background check they shouldn't have, because screwy policing led to stuff not getting properly logged into their permanent records. With any due respect … this is all crap. I'm not into wordsmithing or Whataboutism. Keep telling yourself that guns aren’t the problem. And keep twisting statistics to back it up. I’m not interested in participating in either. 1 2 1 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnyguy Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 8 minutes ago, Gugny said: With any due respect … this is all crap. I'm not into wordsmithing or Whataboutism. Keep telling yourself that guns aren’t the problem. And keep twisting statistics to back it up. I’m not interested in participating in either. Well, bye. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Returntoglory Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 Here's a photo of one of the "alleged" shooters. Funny how most of the media won't post this photo. 🤔 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 10 minutes ago, Returntoglory said: Here's a photo of one of the "alleged" shooters. Funny how most of the media won't post this photo. 🤔 Umm, I hate to ask, but just what does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 1 hour ago, Billsatlastin2018 said: Because of the pro gun 2nd Amendment decisions made over the past decades,it no longer matters whether the shooter’s gun is legal or illegal. With an estimated 400 million in circulation, every half sane individual with any agenda about anything/person/institution/cause knows where to get one or three. From his family, from his neighbours, from his friends, from his associates. The resulting massacres are a never ending horror show in America- unstoppable. A law or laws federally, state wide or municipally are de facto useless. You would need to wind the clock back a half century and make the vast majority of guns unobtainable for the vast majority of people- not called law enforcement, farmers, hunters, gun clubs, etc. That choice is gone forever in America. This pretty much is spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strive_for_five_guy Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 46 minutes ago, boyst said: A. it's not a black/white issue. There are multiple levels to the onions 2) Gun violence is a specific problem in some communities not a national problem iii. Any statistic is only 97.36% accurate on topical face. Also, final post here. 12+ hours after the issue. The perps haven't been named, the national story will be dropped in a few days, this will be forgotten quickly because of the narrative being false. Appreciate your political perspective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted February 15 Share Posted February 15 30 minutes ago, Augie said: If somebody changes someone else’s mind in this discussion, it just may be the first time in history on this topic. Is this kind of like I used to hate mushrooms but now I love them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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