Yantha Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) Just posting some facts here in hopes of generating some DL offseason discussion. Lots of players UFA, and I think that Von Miller is done as well, being on the wrong side of 30, personal issues, injuries etc. Not the same player. UDFA DT, ED, Edge: Rank the below players as PAYDAY players, WALK players (let 'em move on), Take it or Leave it offers (minimums), and RETAIN if possible players (competitive offer but may lose 'em) DT Daquon Jones DE Leonard Floyd DT Jordan Philips DT Tim Settle DE AJ Epenesa DE Shaq Lawson DT Poona Ford DT Linval Joseph OLD (and other issues) EDGE Von Miller That's a LOT of contracts to consider this offseason. What stands out the most for me is whether we PAYDAY Daquon Jones, and DE AJ Epenesa? I think that we WALK Leonard Floyd or give him a Take it or Leave it offer. Edited February 2 by Yantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 There isn't a single "must keep" on that list for me. I'd be interested in Jones at the right price, Shaq is an easy re-sign to vet minimum, and if AJE fails to get what he wants in free agency and comes back to me I'd be interested in doing a deal. The rest can go. 5 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantha Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 I get that but you have to be careful what you wish for. Cobbling together a whole brand new unit might be amazing, or it could be a disaster. There's something to be said for continuity. What's the answer? I'm not sure.... I think it's a really tough call. I like Jones as my #1 target on that list. I'd be hesitant of Epenesa $$$, but hopefully he comes back without a stinker contract for the club. My "Walk" players are Leonard Floyd, Jordan Phillips, Shaq Lawson, Linval Joseph, and Von Miller (find him a new home). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toledo Bill Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Bill, I am surprised you would not list Jones as a “must keep” unless it is due to age. I feel that he can be dominate, consistently ties up double teams and helps the whole defense be much better. He is the major factor in stopping our run defense from getting shredded as in the past. I will be extremely disappointed if we don’t resign him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 5 minutes ago, Yantha said: I get that but you have to be careful what you wish for. Cobbling together a whole brand new unit might be amazing, or it could be a disaster. There's something to be said for continuity. What's the answer? I'm not sure.... I think it's a really tough call. I like Jones as my #1 target on that list. I'd be hesitant of Epenesa $$$, but hopefully he comes back without a stinker contract for the club. My "Walk" players are Leonard Floyd, Jordan Phillips, Shaq Lawson, Linval Joseph, and Von Miller (find him a new home). Surely you'd let "Never Settle" and "PooPoo Ford" walk too? They are hopeless. Just now, Toledo Bill said: Bill, I am surprised you would not list Jones as a “must keep” unless it is due to age. I feel that he can be dominate, consistently ties up double teams and helps the whole defense be much better. He is the major factor in stopping our run defense from getting shredded as in the past. I will be extremely disappointed if we don’t resign him. He is 32 the wall could come literally any moment. I'd like to keep him and I would do a 1 year deal but if he wants a longer commitment then I wouldn't be willing to go there. So by that metric not a must keep. 2 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ga boy Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 9 minutes ago, Yantha said: I get that but you have to be careful what you wish for. Cobbling together a whole brand new unit might be amazing, or it could be a disaster. There's something to be said for continuity. What's the answer? I'm not sure.... I think it's a really tough call. I like Jones as my #1 target on that list. I'd be hesitant of Epenesa $$$, but hopefully he comes back without a stinker contract for the club. My "Walk" players are Leonard Floyd, Jordan Phillips, Shaq Lawson, Linval Joseph, and Von Miller (find him a new home). Good points. Hope we keep Jones. Continuity is more important for OL. Do we want continuity with this DL group? We can’t do much worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 18 minutes ago, Yantha said: Just posting some facts here in hopes of generating some DL offseason discussion. Lots of players UFA, and I think that Von Miller is done as well, being on the wrong side of 30, personal issues, injuries etc. Not the same player. UDFA DT, ED, Edge: Rank the below players as PAYDAY players, WALK players (let 'em move on), Take it or Leave it offers (minimums), and RETAIN if possible players (competitive offer but may lose 'em) DT Daquon Jones DE Leonard Floyd DT Jordan Philips DT Tim Settle DE AJ Epenesa DE Shaq Lawson DT Poona Ford DT Linval Joseph OLD (and other issues) EDGE Von Miller That's a LOT of contracts to consider this offseason. What stands out the most for me is whether we PAYDAY Daquon Jones, and DE AJ Epenesa? I think that we WALK Leonard Floyd or give him a Take it or Leave it offer. Keeping in mind it takes 2 sides to make a deal I'll rule out the following from returning: - Poona Ford - Sounded really unhappy to be here due to his usage. I don't think he's open to return. - Linval Joseph - Doesn't seem wanting to sign early and go through camp or early season games. A mercenary for hire at this stage. - Jordan Phillips - Openly considering retirement. - Leonard Floyd - Open to come back but following money. That's not something we have in abundance. Likey back- - Von Miller - Contract is almost immovable at this point. Just gotta hope the flashes we saw VERY late in the playoffs carry over. Of course a suspension that removes a chunk of his contract changes everything. - DaQuan Jones - I think his injury saves the Bills some money here. I don't think he sees what he may have otherwise on the open market and returns - Tim Settle - I think they like him and he knows the system. Shouldn't command much. Leaves AJE and Lawson. Lawson should be inexpensive and could be back. AJE could see a nice payday elsewhere. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 DL needs an overhaul. The only one I’d want back is Jones. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantha Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 (edited) With Settle and Ford, I have them as offering the vet minimum as just in case 3rd stringers.... But in actuality, I'm hoping we sign Jones, and also target a quality DT in the draft, so Settle/Ford (or both) wouldn't make the 53 man roster. FA Targets? Maybe Christian Wilkins (Miami)? We'd have a HUGE amount of $$ tied up at the DT position if we sign Jones and Wilkins, but DL is an area of "need" for investment. Hard call. Edited February 2 by Yantha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFan Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 I doubt at this point any of these guys will return. Floyd and Jones will be too expensive to keep. The rest are replaceable. I expect at least 1 DL and 1 Edge in the draft and then a couple of cheap DL players in FA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel2014 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 27 minutes ago, Yantha said: Just posting some facts here in hopes of generating some DL offseason discussion. Lots of players UFA, and I think that Von Miller is done as well, being on the wrong side of 30, personal issues, injuries etc. Not the same player. UDFA DT, ED, Edge: Rank the below players as PAYDAY players, WALK players (let 'em move on), Take it or Leave it offers (minimums), and RETAIN if possible players (competitive offer but may lose 'em) DT Daquon Jones DE Leonard Floyd DT Jordan Philips DT Tim Settle DE AJ Epenesa DE Shaq Lawson DT Poona Ford DT Linval Joseph OLD (and other issues) EDGE Von Miller That's a LOT of contracts to consider this offseason. What stands out the most for me is whether we PAYDAY Daquon Jones, and DE AJ Epenesa? I think that we WALK Leonard Floyd or give him a Take it or Leave it offer. I believe I'd re-sign Shaq Lawson, Jordan Phillips and Poona Ford on the cheap. I'd also try and get Leonard Floyd back on a 1 year deal. I'd let all the rest walk, AJ Epenesa had 6.5 sacks and I really like Daquan Jones but at his age and the price tag that he's about to get just wont be worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 How can we keep having to reload the DL every year? Are the one year contracts that beane loves so much hurting us? It seem every year we have to keep retooling the DL because every year we lose so many lineman? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yantha Posted February 2 Author Share Posted February 2 I'll call it right now. On draft day we will be rooting for WR round 1 and we'll pass on "our guy" for the BPA DT... lol 1 minute ago, Westside said: How can we keep having to reload the DL every year? Are the one year contracts that beane loves so much hurting us? It seem every year we have to keep retooling the DL because every year we lose so many lineman? Agreed. It's a LOOOOONG list! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Just now, Yantha said: I'll call it right now. On draft day we will be rooting for WR round 1 and we'll pass on "our guy" for the BPA DT... lol Unfortunately I can see that happening due to all the one year contracts beane signs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel2014 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Just now, Westside said: How can we keep having to reload the DL every year? Are the one year contracts that beane loves so much hurting us? It seem every year we have to keep retooling the DL because every year we lose so many lineman? When you start paying your talent and have a franchise QB, this is what you have to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 2 minutes ago, Westside said: How can we keep having to reload the DL every year? Are the one year contracts that beane loves so much hurting us? It seem every year we have to keep retooling the DL because every year we lose so many lineman? Answer: poor drafting 2 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 minute ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said: When you start paying your talent and have a franchise QB, this is what you have to do. But I don’t see the chiefs tearing down there DL every year due to these one year contracts they love so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 7 minutes ago, Yantha said: With Settle and Ford, I have them as offering the vet minimum as just in case 3rd stringers.... But in actuality, I'm hoping we sign Jones, and also target a quality DT in the draft, so Settle/Ford (or both) wouldn't make the 53 man roster. FA Targets? Maybe Christian Wilkins (Miami)? We'd have a HUGE amount of $$ tied up at the DT position if we sign Jones and Wilkins, but DL is an area of "need" for investment. Hard call. Going strictly off Spotrac's projection Wilkins is projected at a 4 year $80M contract. Now they aren't gospel, of course but they get near the ballpark quite a bit. So, no Wilkins is not a likely option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Just now, Westside said: But I don’t see the chiefs tearing down there DL every year due to these one year contracts they love so much. The illness isn’t the one year contracts; that’s the symptom. The root cause is swinging and missing at Epenesa and Rousseau. If those two guys were performing at anywhere their top draft potential we’d have a solid three stalwarts when coupled with Oliver, not the rotational grab bag we see now. 3 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jokeman Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: There isn't a single "must keep" on that list for me. I'd be interested in Jones at the right price, Shaq is an easy re-sign to vet minimum, and if AJE fails to get what he wants in free agency and comes back to me I'd be interested in doing a deal. The rest can go. To me AJE is the most important guy on the list. Is he the best? No but he is the one with the most upside. Now I wouldn't give him top 10 money but to me he's a fringe starting caliber DE so definitely give him a top 64 money, I'd liken him to a Brandon Graham, who is making $5 million a season which seems high but is actually the 32nd highest salary amongst DEs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westside Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said: The illness isn’t the one year contracts; that’s the symptom. The root cause is swinging and missing at Epenesa and Rousseau. If those two guys were performing at anywhere their top draft potential we’d have a solid three stalwarts when coupled with Oliver, not the rotational grab bag we see now. It is very troubling to me. Rousseau, Elam, AJE, have definitely not panned out as of yet. Rousseau shows flashes but disappears way too often for someone of his caliber. Same with AJE, flashes but that’s it. Our drafting has to seriously improve or we will continue to be paper tigers when it comes to the playoffs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundo91 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 The DL is a black mark on Beane's drafting grade. Aj and Groot are decent but ultimately should be considered fails considering where they were picked. Floyd was a nice surprise this year but isn't a difference maker. Jones was solid, but is older. We are stuck with Von. Our line is weak and needs major attention. Realistically, I'd like to retool it all and bring Jones and Floyd back as veteran leaders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillsGospel2014 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 23 minutes ago, Westside said: But I don’t see the chiefs tearing down there DL every year due to these one year contracts they love so much. No they just had I think 12 rookies either this year or last starting for them when Mahomes contract hit. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 46 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: Answer: poor drafting 40 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said: The illness isn’t the one year contracts; that’s the symptom. The root cause is swinging and missing at Epenesa and Rousseau. If those two guys were performing at anywhere their top draft potential we’d have a solid three stalwarts when coupled with Oliver, not the rotational grab bag we see now. For me, I was pretty happy to lose Eric Washington to Chicago. A DL coach who has had THIS much draft capital thrown his way and to not teach and develop it worth a damn until Ed Oliver had a fire lit under his butt this season (which I put more on a self-starting thing) is downright criminal. They had to bring in Von because nobody was improving. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeding Bills Blue Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 6 hours ago, BuffaloBillsGospel2014 said: No they just had I think 12 rookies either this year or last starting for them when Mahomes contract hit. Since 2020 they have drafted - Gay, Sneed, Danna, Bolton, Mcduffie, Karlaftis, Chenal, and Anudike-uzomah. So 2 first round pass rushers in the last 2 years, 3 LBs, 2 corners. Their defense is nasty and unfortunately, quite young in a lot of places. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionC3 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 7 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: Answer: poor drafting This is the year that missing on the Basham pick really, really hurts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) 7 hours ago, Westside said: It is very troubling to me. Rousseau, Elam, AJE, have definitely not panned out as of yet. Rousseau shows flashes but disappears way too often for someone of his caliber. Same with AJE, flashes but that’s it. Our drafting has to seriously improve or we will continue to be paper tigers when it comes to the playoffs. AJE’s time here had been mismanaged … They stuffed him around early getting him to drop weight which didn’t suit him … He was improved in 2022 and had his best time here the first half of 2023 … he then picked up that rib injury and disappeared… I would like to keep him … however having said that …if he is looking for more than $5m a year then I’m going to struggle to give him that… Rousseau had a disappointing year … I heard he played with a foot injury though… they need to make a decision on his 5th year option this off-season … Edited February 2 by Aussie Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) Bases on DQ's interactions on "X" I'd say he's more than open to coming back. Hopefully he's re-signed Oliver DQ _______ Draft Pick _______ UFA / Settle Ankou I'm not a big fan of Settle, but I guess keep him if cheap Edited February 2 by Warriorspikes51 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillMafia716ix Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Think it’s one of there biggest needs outside of WR. Oliver is solid. But outside of him it’s a lot of question marks. -Von Miller is older. -Greg Rousseau is not that pass rusher they expected him to be. Good in run defense -AJ Epenesa has been up and down and his production tailed off towards the end of the season and he’s a free agent and is expecting a new contract. - Daquon Jones has been solid but has injury history and wants to a new deal - Leonard Floyd is older and wants a new deal. IMO they need to get younger and they need come out this draft with at least 2-3 D lineman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aussie Joe Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) 7 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said: IMO they need to get younger and they need come out this draft with at least 2-3 D lineman. I agree with you … but Beane is really going to have to earn his pay this draft … we are up to 2 WR, DE, DT and S all being year 1 draft contributors … plus some want Beane to make a move up in the first as well… Might actually make some sense to trade down … Edited February 2 by Aussie Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 8 hours ago, Yantha said: I get that but you have to be careful what you wish for. Cobbling together a whole brand new unit might be amazing, or it could be a disaster. There's something to be said for continuity. What's the answer? I'm not sure.... I think it's a really tough call. I like Jones as my #1 target on that list. I'd be hesitant of Epenesa $$$, but hopefully he comes back without a stinker contract for the club. My "Walk" players are Leonard Floyd, Jordan Phillips, Shaq Lawson, Linval Joseph, and Von Miller (find him a new home). Maybe if we traded Miller and our #1 pick for a 6th or 7th rounder we could get someone to take him. So he's done as you said, which not arguing for or against, but then why would anyone else take him? Can't afford to cut either Diggs and Miller and nobody is trading for those contracts unless we really sweetened it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ControllerOfPlanetX Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 They will let them all walk and replace them with guys who are just as average or less….but when they sign them, we will be all excited. (see Tim Settle). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blank Stare Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 I would prioritize Jones and one of Floyd or Epenesa. Shaq on a minimum deal. Everyone else can kick rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 15 hours ago, GunnerBill said: There isn't a single "must keep" on that list for me. I'd be interested in Jones at the right price, Shaq is an easy re-sign to vet minimum, and if AJE fails to get what he wants in free agency and comes back to me I'd be interested in doing a deal. The rest can go. I wouldn't even waste a vet minimum roster spot on Shaq anymore. Watching him play in the playoffs was a joke. He's done. Let injury prone Phillips walk along with AJE and Ford. I could live with Settle one more year on a minimum. Signing Jones should be top priority. Draft some new guys. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 15 hours ago, SoCal Deek said: The illness isn’t the one year contracts; that’s the symptom. The root cause is swinging and missing at Epenesa and Rousseau. If those two guys were performing at anywhere their top draft potential we’d have a solid three stalwarts when coupled with Oliver, not the rotational grab bag we see now. AJ averages 3.5 sacks/ yr Greg averages 5.5 We're not keeping either of these busts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChronicAndKnuckles Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 Leonard Floyd or Daquan needs to be resigned. Preferably Floyd who doesn’t seem to have slowed down despite his age, although he kind of disappeared in the post-season. I’ll be happy to retain either one. 15 hours ago, Sundo91 said: The DL is a black mark on Beane's drafting grade. Aj and Groot are decent but ultimately should be considered fails considering where they were picked. Floyd was a nice surprise this year but isn't a difference maker. Jones was solid, but is older. We are stuck with Von. Our line is weak and needs major attention. Realistically, I'd like to retool it all and bring Jones and Floyd back as veteran leaders. I feel like people are giving up too fast on Rousseau like they did Ed Oliver. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, LABILLBACKER said: I wouldn't even waste a vet minimum roster spot on Shaq anymore. Watching him play in the playoffs was a joke. He's done. Let injury prone Phillips walk along with AJE and Ford. I could live with Settle one more year on a minimum. Signing Jones should be top priority. Draft some new guys. Settle is trash. I wouldn't necessarily guarantee Shaq a spot. But Id bring him back on vet minimum and let him compete in camp. Sure Jones is the priority but he is not a must keep and there should be a price at which they say no and walk away. 17 minutes ago, ChronicAndKnuckles said: Leonard Floyd or Daquan needs to be resigned. Preferably Floyd who doesn’t seem to have slowed down despite his age, although he kind of disappeared in the post-season. I’ll be happy to retain either one. Floyd disappeared after about week 10. He was our best pass rusher early season. But his effectiveness fell of a cliff down the stretch. Edited February 3 by GunnerBill 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 16 hours ago, Sundo91 said: The DL is a black mark on Beane's drafting grade. Aj and Groot are decent but ultimately should be considered fails considering where they were picked. Floyd was a nice surprise this year but isn't a difference maker. Jones was solid, but is older. We are stuck with Von. Our line is weak and needs major attention. Realistically, I'd like to retool it all and bring Jones and Floyd back as veteran leaders. I can't buy Greg as a fail for where he was picked. He has only missed 4 starts in 3 years and has been a good starting defensive end. Exceptional against the run good at batting balls vs the pass. Sure he is only a moderate pass rusher but he was not drafted in the top 10. He was drafted #30 overall. If at the end of round 1 you get an above average starter who has started almost every game through three years that isnt a fail. If the point is he isn't an elite difference maker, sure, he isn't. And overall it is agreed Beane hasn't found enough of those. But Rousseau isn't a failed pick. He is a really good football player. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warriorspikes51 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 (edited) 1 hour ago, GunnerBill said: Settle is trash. I wouldn't necessarily guarantee Shaq a spot. But Id bring him back on vet minimum and let him compete in camp. Sure Jones is the priority but he is not a must keep and there should be a price at which they say no and walk away. Floyd disappeared after about week 10. He was our best pass rusher early season. But his effectiveness fell of a cliff down the stretch. foot and rib injuries played a part in that I wish we could find a way to acquire an extra 2nd round pick and come out of that round with DT Sweat Edited February 3 by Warriorspikes51 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFanForever19 Posted February 3 Share Posted February 3 1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said: foot and rib injuries played a part in that I wish we could find a way to acquire an extra 2nd round pick and come out of that round with DT Sweat Why do we need an extra 2nd to do that? If we have a hole at DT and he's there, just Draft him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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