Wink Martindale leaving G-Men

[Mister Defense]

10 hours ago, arcadia bob said:

Would be a very good choice for our DC. Maybe looking for a HC job but i would spend the dime on the call ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As much as McDermot would probably like to just be a head coach again, his success this year will almost assuredly mean he will be the defensive coordinator again next year. One of the most disciplined, hard working, best schemed, consistent units in the NFL, if not the best.

[JGMcD2]

40 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

How much bad blood was caused over the pass catching back... forget his name? Brandon Beane was definitely pissed and talked about it having "damaged some long term relationships with people in Washington."

JD McKissic 

Edited January 9 by JGMcD2

[T master]

10 hours ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

The problem I see with hiring Martindale as been stated his scheme is much different so likely assistants and even some players also wouldn't fit with the new scheme either so many of them would be gone too. So basically starting over on the defensive side from a coaching and maybe even a player standpoint.

 

The other issue with doing something like this is it's kind of a slap in the face to the existing staff.  Coaches typically either expect to be fired if the HC gets fired or promoted to fill openings on the staff.  You have coaches like Babish and Washington who'd be logical promotions to DC, but instead passing them over to bring someone in from the outside.  Those guys would likely also leave.  It's different if the team is struggling and the defense or offensive scheme isn't working and you want big changes, but don't think that's needed here.

 

Bringing in Rivera probably wouldn't be an issue with scheme, but would still be an issue with promoting from within.

 

Hiring Martingale would be the exact same as when the Bills brought in Rex . The year before they had the top 3 D in the league had more sacks than most of the other teams they bring in Rex & in all of his brilliance pushes Schwartz out & changes that D from a 4/3 to a 3/4 with all the wrong personal .

 

Brilliant Rex don't know why you can't get another coaching job . 

 

If the Bills do hire another D coordinator it will be some one in line with what McD see's in this D that might have some tweaks to it but the over all D will stay the same . Rex should have never been allowed to blow up that D just look at what Schwartz has brought to the Browns ...

[Big Turk]

11 hours ago, arcadia bob said:

Would be a very good choice for our DC. Maybe looking for a HC job but i would spend the dime on the call ....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

He is a polar opposite in terms of personnel and style to McD. I don't see how he is a good choice at all. This makes sense only if you don't take into account things that actually matter.

[SoonerBillsFan]

11 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

He's a big blitz guy and loves to play man.

 

That would be a huge change in our defensive philosophy if we hired him, I can't see it happening personally 

That's all I need to know. Get er' done Terry / Brandon.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

How much bad blood was caused over the pass catching back... forget his name? Brandon Beane was definitely pissed and talked about it having "damaged some long term relationships with people in Washington."

 

And even distinct from that, Sean McDermott isn't giving up play calling. If the Bills have a DC next year it will be an internal promotion and a non-playcalling role.

 

That's more on the player/agent/GM than Rivera.  And probably water under the bridge since McKissic turned out to be a bum.

[SoonerBillsFan]

11 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Hugely different defensive coach with respect to scheme and tactics. Polar opposite of McD in almost every way.

Good.

11 hours ago, KDIGGZ said:

Huh? Did you just see McD's defense hold the #1 offense in the NFL to 40 yards in the 2nd half last night? Why would we change our entire defense?

How many times just this year has it failed on final drives of the half / in OT?  How many times in McDermott's career?  13 *******seconds ring a bell?

Edited January 9 by SoonerBillsFan

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

That's more on the player/agent/GM than Rivera.  And probably water under the bridge since McKissic turned out to be a bum.

 

Hmm. Maybe. But only Ron and Marty Hurney were folks Beane had prior relationships with particularly. I thought it was a veiled dig a them. 

[Man with No Name]

I'm sure mcdermott absolutely loves calling the plays. i don't know how many head coaches call defense, but it seems at least a third call offensive plays, so I don't have an issue with it. Hopefully he is getting all the help he feels he needs, in whichever areas it's needed. If he already has a guy or two around who  understand how he thinks and what he's looking for, maybe they are good and don't need any of these guys. 

Edited January 9 by Man with No Name

[RyanC883]

no thanks for him or Ron.  Promote Babich. 

[Doc]

32 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Hmm. Maybe. But only Ron and Marty Hurney were folks Beane had prior relationships with particularly. I thought it was a veiled dig a them. 

 

Hurt feelings can be overcome.  See Lawson and Fournette.

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Doc said:

It will be Riverboat Ron as DC next year.  Book it!

 

As for Daboll, maybe we're seeing who was the real culprit between he and McD?

 

 

lol, come on...

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

lol, come on...

 

Why?

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Why?

 

why would you hire a guy who has been middling around the league for 19 years as a coach? Might as well bring Leslie Frazier.

 

There are guys who the game has passed by and then there is Riverboat Ron. 

[Gregg]

Frazier to the Giants?

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/brian-daboll-counterpart-the-top-choice-to-replace-giants-dc-wink-martindale/ar-AA1mF5bv?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=HCTS&cvid=fff268ab0a014f018a9a309d3bf42b2b&ei=9

[Doc]

58 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

why would you hire a guy who has been middling around the league for 19 years as a coach? Might as well bring Leslie Frazier.

 

There are guys who the game has passed by and then there is Riverboat Ron. 

 

Because some guys are just better coordinators than HCs.  And Frazier's done in Buffalo.

 

To me it's either him or promote from within.  But as I said, if he wanted to promote from within, he would have done it before the season instead of taking on the added role of DC.

[Mr. WEO]

24 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Because some guys are just better coordinators than HCs.  And Frazier's done in Buffalo.

 

To me it's either him or promote from within.  But as I said, if he wanted to promote from within, he would have done it before the season instead of taking on the added role of DC.

 

he was last a DC 14 years ago.  

[Cubanmist 1]

Wouldn’t be surprised if Leslie Frazier became a Defensive Coordinator for Giants.

[Mr. WEO]

25 minutes ago, Cubanmist 1 said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if Leslie Frazier became a Defensive Coordinator for Giants.

 

that would be a Giants move...

[TBBills Fan]

14 hours ago, Doc said:

It will be Riverboat Ron as DC next year.  Book it!

 

As for Daboll, maybe we're seeing who was the real culprit between he and McD?

Depending on how the playoffs go I think McDermott either keeps the title or bumps someone in house 

[Don Otreply]

13 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Ravens went from a bottom ranked defense, to #3, to #1 when they moved on from Wink.

 

Giants 17 last season 26 this season

 

What exactly in your view makes Wink a good choice for this team?

 

 

In my opinion, that would be a mistake if McDermott adds Rivera.  It’s always awkward to bring your former boss in as a 

frankly I wouldn’t be particularly impressed with a Rivera hire…, it’s not like he has been successful for quite a while now, 

[dave mcbride]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Will be interesting to see if Wink goes the Vic Fangio route and takes on an advisory role with a playoff team like Vic did with the Eagles in the lead-up to the SB last year.

I'm far more interested in the toxic dynamic between him and Daboll. By firing all of his people, he forced him to resign, which means he can't go to the Eagles if the Giants want to stop it. Daboll is an interesting person, but I think he has some real anger management issues and his relationships with McDermott and Martindale - his two most recent defensive coaching partners - appear to be in tatters. Check it out:

 

https://theathletic.com/5189282/2024/01/09/new-york-giants-brian-daboll-wink-martindale-resign/

 

Daboll shifted the onus to Martindale by declaring during his season-ending news conference Monday morning that it was his “expectation” the coordinator would be back. Daboll made that comment despite revealing moments later that he had yet to have a conversation with Martindale about his future. That didn’t matter because Daboll had already tried to ensure that a split would be on Martindale. Daboll even referenced Martindale’s previous comments about how much he loved working for the Giants.

“I know Wink talks about this as a destination place and things like that,” Daboll said.

The firings of the Wilkins brothers were reported by The Athletic five hours after Daboll’s comments. An hour later, news of Martindale’s resignation broke. The timeline of how everything unfolded internally is unclear, but firing the Wilkins brothers was clear a sign Martindale’s days in East Rutherford were numbered.

 

The brothers began their coaching careers at the lowest levels in Baltimore and rose through the ranks under Martindale’s tutelage. Drew Wilkins became Martindale’s right-hand man, as the duo worked closely to design the defense’s exotic blitz packages.

With Martindale and his protégés gone, the pressure on Daboll intensifies. The honeymoon already was over, but now he needs to find an upgrade on one of the most respected defensive coordinators in the league.

It would be one thing if Martindale was fired for poor performance. But this relationship dissolved over a personality conflict. If Daboll could have made things work with Martindale, he wouldn’t have a major hole to fill on his coaching staff.

 

A messy divorce?

 

Don’t expect this to be an amicable split between Martindale and the Giants. He’s still under contract for 2024, so despite reports about the demand for his services, he’s not free to pursue any job he wants.

If Martindale gets head-coaching interest, which seems unlikely, he can pursue those opportunities. But it’s hard to imagine the Giants will let him walk to any defensive coordinator job of his choosing.

The last thing the Giants want is for Martindale to head to Philadelphia, whose defense has disintegrated down the stretch. That’s why a firing was unlikely, since that would have paved the way down I-95 for Martindale.

The resignation is a much better outcome for the Giants, since they maintain control over Martindale’s next stop. Depending on how bitter the breakup is, it seems like the sides should be able to reach a mutual parting if Martindale gets a coordinator offer from a team that meets the Giants’ approval.

[SectionC3]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Because some guys are just better coordinators than HCs.  And Frazier's done in Buffalo.

 

To me it's either him or promote from within.  But as I said, if he wanted to promote from within, he would have done it before the season instead of taking on the added role of DC.

I generally agree with this.  The only thing I’d qualify the “promote from within” point with is the idea that perhaps there’s a position coach who had a phenomenal year and convinced McD that he’s ready for a promotion.  I’m not there, and I have no inside info, but maybe Bobby Babich fits the profile.  Terrell Bernard was light years better than I ever could have imagined.  

[Doc]

Just now, SectionC3 said:

I generally agree with this.  The only thing I’d qualify the “promote from within” point with is the idea that perhaps there’s a position coach who had a phenomenal year and convinced McD that he’s ready for a promotion.  I’m not there, and I have no inside info, but maybe Bobby Babich fits the profile.  Terrell Bernard was light years better than I ever could have imagined.  

 

Yeah the only hesitation I'd have with hiring Rivera is if it might cost them BB.    And not just Bernard, but Dodson and Spector looked good.  Williams should come on next year.

[Flipnmi]

15 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Ravens went from a bottom ranked defense, to #3, to #1 when they moved on from Wink.

 

Giants 17 last season 26 this season

 

What exactly in your view makes Wink a good choice for this team?

 

 

In my opinion, that would be a mistake if McDermott adds Rivera.  It’s always awkward to bring your former boss in as a subordinate.

From my personal experience, this is not univerally true. It is very dependent on the personalities of the people involved and the level of mutual respect they have for each other. I've been on both sides of this equation and always it worked fine. In those cases we were both colleagues and friends, so there was clear motivation to make it work. I would expect the same to be true with McDerrmott and Riveria.  That said, I'm not sure Rivera adds that much to the staff, but I know I don't want any part of Wink.

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, Flipnmi said:

From my personal experience, this is not univerally true. It is very dependent on the personalities of the people involved and the level of mutual respect they have for each other. I've been on both sides of this equation and always it worked fine. In those cases we were both colleagues and friends, so there was clear motivation to make it work. I would expect the same to be true with McDerrmott and Riveria.  That said, I'm not sure Rivera adds that much to the staff, but I know I don't want any part of Wink.

 

I'm with you on that "Wink" thing.  I can see he's led some good defenses at times, but they're fundamentally built different than what our defense is, and I'm 100% not down with a rebuilding job.

Edited January 9 by Beck Water

[Sierra Foothills]

9 hours ago, Mister Defense said:

As much as McDermot would probably like to just be a head coach again, his success this year will almost assuredly mean he will be the defensive coordinator again next year. One of the most disciplined, hard working, best schemed, consistent units in the NFL, if not the best.

 

8 hours ago, Man with No Name said:

I'm sure mcdermott absolutely loves calling the plays. i don't know how many head coaches call defense, but it seems at least a third call offensive plays, so I don't have an issue with it. Hopefully he is getting all the help he feels he needs, in whichever areas it's needed. If he already has a guy or two around who  understand how he thinks and what he's looking for, maybe they are good and don't need any of these guys. 

 

It was commented by a few (not you guys) that McDermott would be better handing over the reins and concentrating on Head Coach duties like game management. Actually McDermott's game management is no worse than it's ever been and his defense has been better. The better argument is that he continues to call plays like so many other head coaches do.

 

4 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

I generally agree with this.  The only thing I’d qualify the “promote from within” point with is the idea that perhaps there’s a position coach who had a phenomenal year and convinced McD that he’s ready for a promotion.  I’m not there, and I have no inside info, but maybe Bobby Babich fits the profile.  Terrell Bernard was light years better than I ever could have imagined.  

 

4 hours ago, Doc said:

Yeah the only hesitation I'd have with hiring Rivera is if it might cost them BB.    And not just Bernard, but Dodson and Spector looked good.  Williams should come on next year.

 

I'm not clear on why Bobby Babich should be getting more love here than Eric Washington. For one thing Washington is already Assistant Head Coach and for another, his work with Ed Oliver, Greg Rousseau, and AJ Epenesa has been just as impressive as any Bills assistant's work with any position group.

 

[Gambit]

 

 

[SectionC3]

3 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

 

It was commented by a few (not you guys) that McDermott would be better handing over the reins and concentrating on Head Coach duties like game management. Actually McDermott's game management is no worse than it's ever been and his defense has been better. The better argument is that he continues to call plays like so many other head coaches do.

 

 

 

I'm not clear on why Bobby Babich should be getting more love here than Eric Washington. For one thing Washington is already Assistant Head Coach and for another, his work with Ed Oliver, Greg Rousseau, and AJ Epenesa has been just as impressive as any Bills assistant's work with any position group.

 

Didn’t Babich have the safeties and do a nice job there?  Good work at two levels.  Not to take away from Washington, but that’s a nice job in two groups of my memory is sound. 

[MikePJ76]

Sounds like wink is a serious pain in the butt.  Sure seems like he has behaved here completely unprofessionally 

[416BillsFan]

9 hours ago, Cubanmist 1 said:

Wouldn’t be surprised if Leslie Frazier became a Defensive Coordinator for Giants.

That would make sense and Daboll doesn't seem to jive with tightly wound DCs. Maybe Jerod Mayo would be interested if he doesn't get the HC job in NE?

[78thealltimegreat]

The exit interview between Wink and Brian sounded like a some fireworks where launched 

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

The exit interview between Wink and Brian sounded like a some fireworks where launched 

 

A la Nick Nicolau and Tom Bresnahan?

 

[dave mcbride]

13 hours ago, Gambit said:

 

 

More: https://nypost.com/2024/01/09/sports/wink-martindale-cursed-out-giants-brian-daboll-after-firings/

[SectionC3]

15 hours ago, MikePJ76 said:

Sounds like wink is a serious pain in the butt.  Sure seems like he has behaved here completely unprofessionally 

Daboll’s pretty smart and messed with him by firing his guys.  They’re trying to get wink to quit or to fire him for cause. 

[MikePJ76]

4 minutes ago, SectionC3 said:

Daboll’s pretty smart and messed with him by firing his guys.  They’re trying to get wink to quit or to fire him for cause. 

could be but it sounds like those guys were giving info to the media and creating problems.  Sounds like they deserved it and wink is looking for a way to get fired so he can go wherever he wants.

[SectionC3]

10 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

could be but it sounds like those guys were giving info to the media and creating problems.  Sounds like they deserved it and wink is looking for a way to get fired so he can go wherever he wants.

I think we’re saying the same thing.  Daboll didn’t like these guys, and doesn’t like Wink, and doesn’t want to give Wink his way with respect to getting away from the Giants.  So rather than fire Wink and have him run Phlily’s defense next year, he’s trying to bait Wink into quitting.  

[TheFunPolice]

If a coach on your staff wants out I get the team stance of "we don't want to have to pay him" but just do the right thing and cut the guy loose. Do you really want a coordinator on your staff who doesn't want to be there? 

 

Maybe they reach a deal: Wink walks and he's free but the Giants don't owe him a penny more. That makes the most sense for all. 

[The Jokeman]

On 1/9/2024 at 1:00 PM, Don Otreply said:

frankly I wouldn’t be particularly impressed with a Rivera hire…, it’s not like he has been successful for quite a while now, 

Rivera is a smart hire yet McDermott might sour some of his current assistant coaches if he went that route and tbh don't think that the best thing to do as am sure might have reservations based on last years guys moving on (see Chad Hall). 

[78thealltimegreat]

14 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

A la Nick Nicolau and Tom Bresnahan?

 

Well he did say go the F to Florida with the rest of the elderly