Poll: Top reason for the Offense's underperformance

[Fan in Chicago]

There are lot of reasons being thrown out for the Bills not performing up to expectations. I wanted to isolate the Offense and get the community's feeling on the top reason. The question is simple - what is the top reason for the Offense's underperformance? Don't weigh in with "its a combination of reasons". I am just looking for your opinion on the top reason. 

 

My opinion - it's Dorsey and his schemes. 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Fan in Chicago

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

I think it's a blend of McDermott and Dorsey.

 

Anyone saying Allen just needs to back off because no QB is perfect and Allen is grading out as the #1 QB in the NFL analytically and is #1 in QBR as well.

[LabattBlue]

Not sure what the main problem is, but I heard a great point on WGR this morning. How can you add Kincaid & O’Torrence who both would be perceived as solid replacements, yet the offense is worse than last year. 
 

Something is not right with Josh. What that is…who knows. 

[Nihilarian]

While I kind of agree that Dorsey does suck at times. It's mostly because he isn't innovative enough to get the Buffalo run game going with Cook or whoever the RB is...

 

Buffalo needs Josh Allen under center and that run game working no matter how many the opponent stacks in a box. Key word, innovative! 

[entropyrules]

in an effort to continue a theme and  taunt PatsfanNH.......SPELLING

[Success]

Coaching, imo.

 

We should be better than last year w/ some of the upgrades.  We looked like our old selves against Miami - I thought that was the start of something, but it looks flukey now.  

 

The playcalling is generally lacking.  It was actually thrilling to see the one trick play yesterday, even though it didn't work.  I feel like our scheme is predictable and easy to gameplan against.  It's almost vanilla/preseason at times.

 

[wppete]

Dorsey and McDermott are to blame. We need a change. 

[EasternOHBillsFan]

Dorsey sucks... and if McD won't replace Dorsey, Dorsey and McD have got to go.

[Bray Wyatt]

My issue with Dorsey, We do not seem to try and scheme any one open, it is just line up and beat the man in front of you.  No shock that we are inconsistent with that method as no one wins their battles all the time.

[HOUSE]

Got to have a balanced attack 

No running game 

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

I’m going with inconsistent weapons and inconsistent usage of weapons.

 

I think the Bills offense is getting closer believe it or not. It’s going to be Diggs and Kincaid leading the way. 

[babulator]

Dorsey's offense seems like it was made for the early 2000's.

[DrDawkinstein]

I chose the obvious "Dorsey sucks" but McDermott owns a good portion of the blame too. If for nothing else, not being a complete HC.

[Irv]

Any credible discussion about the Bills offensive woes starts with Reid Ferguson.  

[Heavy Kevi]

Dorsey Sucks, 

 

With McDermott giving him too much free reign getting honorable (?) mention

[UKBillFan]

McDermott is tempering the offense to try and protect the defense IMO.

 

I'm baffled as to why the first drive was executed so well yesterday and then the approach was abandoned until the third quarter.

[BillsPride12]

You are missing an All of the Above option.  This Offense is completely broken.  When things are this off, I guarantee you it's not just one thing but a combination of all of these issues we have been talking about.  

[Alphadawg7]

36 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

Not sure what the main problem is, but I heard a great point on WGR this morning. How can you add Kincaid & O’Torrence who both would be perceived as solid replacements, yet the offense is worse than last year. 
 

Something is not right with Josh. What that is…who knows. 

 

I know...its Dorsey.  

 

No two drives look the same.  Beane wasn't kidding when he said this team is still looking for it's identity, and he was directly talking to the offense.  Defense has it, that unit was first in every major defensive category until injuries happened and despite those injuries the defense is holding itself together enough for us to win games.  

 

But the offense, it has no significant injuries and one drive looks like an explosive smooth machine and the next it doesn't even look like the same team.  Dorsey has been an issue since he became OC and Allen, Diggs, etc are talented enough to still produce despite the poor coaching of Dorsey.  But Dorsey now is a dead anchor on this offense and its killing this team.  

[dpberr]

Just now, Alphadawg7 said:

No two drives look the same

Amen.  That's coaching right there.

[QCity]

Dorsey has designed an offense that runs through Josh's legs, not his arm. When Josh doesn't run the car can't get out of 1st gear.

[LABILLBACKER]

46 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

I think it's a blend of McDermott and Dorsey.

 

Anyone saying Allen just needs to back off because no QB is perfect and Allen is grading out as the #1 QB in the NFL analytically and is #1 in QBR as well.

This is hardly just a Dorsey problem.  It's both guys and as coaches they're equally culpable. Sean has had 6 years to improve the OL/ WR2 issue that still haunts this team. 

[Donuts and Doritos]

It's more than 1 thing. Dorsey isn't great play calling/adjusting & is too friendly w/ Allen to reign him in. Allen is a gunslinger Not a system guy, so you can't reign him into a system, which makes the offense more backyard than planned. & We don't have a #2 WR who consistently shows up.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, QCity said:

Dorsey has designed an offense that runs through Josh's legs, not his arm. When Josh doesn't run the car can't get out of 1st gear.

Josh ran last night.

 

Dorsey hasn’t built anything. He inherited an offense that was Diggs and Beasley. The problem is there was no Beasley.

 

They have had a hard time finding someone else to feature in the offense. We’re starting to see Kincaid take the role.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[BADOLBILZ]

17 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m going with inconsistent weapons and inconsistent usage of weapons.

 

I think the Bills offense is getting closer believe it or not. It’s going to be Diggs and Kincaid leading the way. 

 

 

It won't be with Kincaid averaging RB-like yards per reception.    

 

The Bills 2020 offense fell off for two reasons..........John Brown went from a 1B type WR to washed up overnight due to injury/age(and Sanders didn't provide the same dynamic element).........and because Beasley's yards per catch fell below 10.

 

Kincaid is averaging 8 yards per catch.   That's awful.   Fortunately he catches almost everything (except when over-hyped Josh hit him with that laser on his first target last night).

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[Coach Tuesday]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It won't be with Kincaid averaging RB-like yards per reception.    

 

The Bills 2020 offense fell off for two reasons..........John Brown went from a 1B type WR to washed up overnight due to injury/age(and Sanders didn't provide the same dynamic element).........and because Beasley's yards per catch fell below 10.

 

Kincaid is averaging 8 yards per catch.   That's awful.   Fortunately he catches almost everything (except when over-hyped Josh hit him with that laser on his first target last night).

 

 

 

He also has got it in his head that he needs to make the line to gain after weeks of getting stopped short and so he started diving for the extra yard last night, as soon as he did it the first time I thought "Oh no, he's going to fumble or get hurt" and then sure enough the second time he did it the ball came out.

 

But at least he's trying.

[somnus00]

15 minutes ago, Irv said:

Any credible discussion about the Bills offensive woes starts with Reid Ferguson.  

Finally. Someone had to say it.

[Vertig0]

Going with "Dorsey Sucks".

 

I've given him the benefit of the doubt for most of the year, as the players also need to execute his gameplan, but last night was the final dagger for me.

 

I don't know where I read it, somewhere on these forums, but someone referred to offensive play calling as an "art" - building plays, developing a rhythm and using certain plays to work into others (maybe Dan Orlovsky on WGR last week>).  It seems to me that Dorsey doesn't have this natural ability.  Rather, he relies on analytics and math to determine what he calls in a given instance.  While this certainly isn't a bad thing, a good OC can't totally rely on the numbers - there needs to be a natural flow that is based on the game itself and what is occurring.  Shotgun draw at the goal line is a perfect example.  I understand that analytics displays that a shotgun formation will spread out the defense, and that a hand off up the middle may result in a higher yield of scores than under center (I've read the articles), but it hasn't worked well all season, and the league is hearing pushback about the Tush Push for a reason - because it works all the time.  

 

Another example, if you see that your QB is struggling to take the easy stuff on third down (i.e. JA is taking the deeper shots on 3rd and mid/short, not taking the underneath), then stop calling the plays that even give him those options.  Run plays that don't extend too far down field, and force him to try and make the easy completions - or even run for the first down.  Daboll liked to give Josh plays that would calm him down, get him in a rhythm and get him seeing the field.  I don't see that with Dorsey at all.  It's always purely "the analytics tell me to run this play because it has the greatest likelihood of success" and then it's blindly run with no further thought.  Just my two cents.  Maybe I'm wrong.

 

TLDR: Dorsey Sucks. 

 

  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

People are overthinking things. The biggest reason they kept Dorsey was to keep things similar to what Daboll was doing. There are some differences trying to keep Allen from taking hits and trying to find a Beasley replacement. But it’s very much the same offense.

 

It’s just not as smooth because we don’t have Beasley winning over the middle and moving the chains. We also don’t have Allen winning with his legs and moving the chains.

 

I truly believe as the Allen to Kincaid connection grows we’ll see a smoother more consistent offense.

[bmur66]

Lack of leadership, good game planning, execution and 79 sucks. How many times was 79 beat on the first step? It was horrible right up until I fell asleep at half time.

[Fan in Chicago]

27 minutes ago, BillsPride12 said:

You are missing an All of the Above option.  This Offense is completely broken.  When things are this off, I guarantee you it's not just one thing but a combination of all of these issues we have been talking about.  

Sure. Nothing in life is caused by one reason alone. But this poll is about your opinion of the top reason 

[BillMafia716ix]

We have zero balance on offense. Once we got down in the game, Dorsey panicked like he always does and completely abandoned the run game. When we blew out Miami. We ran it and threw it. We haven’t done it since. We still want to play a finesse style of football even though they preach they want balance. 
 

Still many times when it’s 3rd and short they will throw it instead of using our power back to keep the chains moving. Dorsey is an idiot and needs to be gone asap!!

[Fan in Chicago]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It won't be with Kincaid averaging RB-like yards per reception.    

 

 

 

Kincaid is averaging 8 yards per catch.   That's awful.   Fortunately he catches almost everything (except when over-hyped Josh hit him with that laser on his first target last night).

 

 

I don't know if that's on Kincaid or Dorsey. I would like to think that being a rookie, he needs coaching on running NFL routes and in this scheme. If his depth of target is low, I have to first look at Dorsey. 

 

Anyways, I can't see who voted for which option. what's your top reason? 

[starrymessenger]

Why choose only one when they are all spot on?

[PBF81]

My answer to this poll is that Dorsey's never been qualified to step into a role as a novice and completely inexperienced OC.  That's McD's decision, therefore he bears blame as well.  Why anyone would think that someone of Dorsey's blank slate background with little to even remotely suggest or project future success as such would be a good hire to hand the keys to a Ferrari to is highly questionable.  

 

At the end of the day, McD is the head coach of this team, and his statements in pressers about not knowing what's going on or how to correct it, ... LOL, ... whatever.  But that is clearly indicative that he's in over his head.  It's also quite a bit unbelieveable that he doesn't have a hand in the offense to at least some extent, the extent to which can be argued.  

 

But if not, how about a coach that knows offense and is on top of his own pick for OC!!  

 

That sounds like a more rational approach.  

 

McD's gotten way more leniency than most other coaches would have gotten for no other reason than the pre-Allen circumstances of this team.  Not sure how it's going to shake out, but the narrative supporting McD is crumbling in major ways now and is now also in the mainstream.  Pegula's got a problem on his hands as selling PSLs and tix costing twice what they now cost, on top of PSLs, is going to become more difficult if this team cannot become a perennially good offensive team given Allen's presence. 

 

One more season of this nonsense and good luck to that effort.  A non-insignificant number of STHs here have even expressed that they're not renewing, and that is with the understanding that we would win the division every year while Allen's here.  

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by PBF81

[BillMafia716ix]

13 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

People are overthinking things. The biggest reason they kept Dorsey was to keep things similar to what Daboll was doing. There are some differences trying to keep Allen from taking hits and trying to find a Beasley replacement. But it’s very much the same offense.

 

It’s just not as smooth because we don’t have Beasley winning over the middle and moving the chains. We also don’t have Allen winning with his legs and moving the chains.

 

I truly believe as the Allen to Kincaid connection grows we’ll see a smoother more consistent offense.

Dorsey is definitely running a dummy down version of Daboll offense because Daboll offense didn’t have much balance either. No threat of run a game is killing this offense. Like it has for YEARS. Imagine Josh playing with a guy like Derrick Henry or another elite back. A guy other than Diggs that defense has to account for. Josh working off play action would be deadly!!  It’s such an easy fix and I don’t know how this coaching staff can’t see it. It’s frustrating 

[Royale with Cheese]

46 minutes ago, UKBillFan said:

McDermott is tempering the offense to try and protect the defense IMO.

 

I'm baffled as to why the first drive was executed so well yesterday and then the approach was abandoned until the third quarter.

Its because those are the scripted plays.

[Rc2catch]

I still stick with Dorsey. 
Mcdermott has been saying complimentary football for weeks and to me all I see is “the defense is in shambles, run the ball, control some clock and help me keep these guys off the field” 

They ran 5 times in the first half I think it was. 
I disliked dabolls gameday playcalling, especially the refusal to run the ball, I dislike Dorsey’s even more. I have no clue what offense I will see week to week. One week they’re power running and looking unstoppable at it, one week josh is in hurry up and looking like an MVP.. Then just a whole lotta mixed RPO and miscommunicated plays. 
I like Mcdermott and I’m not big on firing people but it’s definitely feeling like he’s running out of time really fast. 
I wouldn’t even be upset if he just said F it I’ll call the offense and defense this week. 

[BananaB]

Hard to pinpoint one. It’s definitely not Allen and Diggs though. 

[nedboy7]

McD isnt leaving this year.  It is Dorsey and that is the first thing that need to change.  They dumpster diving for OL and WR arent working either.  D is so banged up there is no way to really assess that side of the ball. 

[Bill from NYC]

There should be a voting choice for simply McDermott imo.