If the Bills Don’t Make it to the AFCCG, Should McDermott Be Fired?

[Chaos]

10 minutes ago, Success said:

Some fans don't understand how good McD is.

 

I don't think he's great.  But I'd also put about 2 coaches in the league in the "great" category right now.  If anyone watches other games on Sundays, it's pretty bleak out there. There is a LOT of bad coaching in the league..

 

And just to echo sentiments already expressed - who do you replace him with?  If it's someone unproven - and the vast majority of candidates will fit that description - you could really take a left turn, and then you would really be wasting years while we have Allen.

Zac Taylor and Nick Sirianas are probably not the two coaches you think of as great, yet both got their teams to the Super Bowl, by their third season. 

There may simply be some advantage to fresh eyes on the situation.  
 

[starrymessenger]

McD is a defensive HC and specialist. I really don't think he has much to contribute to the other side of the ball. That's not really a negative criticism. Its an achievement to be one of the best defensive minds in the game. Its really hard to do and that's a major advantage for the Bills. Given a choice I'd rather not lose that.  What the Bills and McD need to do is find and fully empower a qualified offensive coordinator and give the offence as much importance as the D in drafting and recruiting players. Maybe Dorsey is that guy, maybe not, but whether he can develop or not hiring an inexperienced guy from within at this time in particular was bound to set the team back. Its just pure speculation on my part but I have to wonder whether relying on a limited coaching talent pool is driven by McD's lack of confidence and desire for control. Hope not because if that's the case then I say he's got to go. Not that I think Terry would go there.

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Zac Taylor and Nick Sirianas are probably not the two coaches you think of as great, yet both got their teams to the Super Bowl, by their third season. 

There may simply be some advantage to fresh eyes on the situation.  
 

 

Lions OC Ben Johnson would be an interesting choice.

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, Gregg said:

 

I wouldn't want Bill the GM. Let Beane run the draft. Give me the coach who went to 9 Super Bowls with a 6-3 record in those games. Bill with this team and QB would get us past the Chiefs, Bengals. You can't argue with the results he has gotten when he had a great QB and a solid team.

And a good OC. That's the rub.

[Low Positive]

3 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Lions OC Ben Johnson would be an interesting choice.

People like to talk about coaching trees. What would be funny about that is that Ben Johnson is firmly out of the Adam Gase coaching tree. 

[Buffalo03]

1 hour ago, thenorthremembers said:

Bill Belichick has 1 playoff win in 10 years without Brady.  He was on his way to being fired in New England before Bledsoe went down and Brady took over.

 

He's 85-90 without Brady.  His winning percentage is .485 without Brady.   Thats worse than Jack Del Rio, Wayne Fontes, Mike Tice, and Dave Wannstedt.    He's made the playoffs 2 of 10 years without Brady.

 

If you really want to give up a 49 year old head coach for a guy who will be 72 next year, and hasnt shown he is half the coach McDermott is without Tom Brady, I'd say you were the type to make irrational decisions based on emotions alone.

 

Tom Coughlin won 2 Superbowls.  He's only 77 maybe we can bring him back?     Joe Gibbs has 3 Superbowls, only 82, lets see what he is up to.   If all else fails, we could just Weekend at Bernie's Bill Walsh.  I suspect just his presence can will the Bills to the Superbowl.

Joe Gibbs and Any Reid can be considered better coaches than Belichick if you ask me. Gibbs won 3 Super Bowls with 3 Mediocre QBs. Andy Reid has a 92-49-1 record with Donavan McNabb and 5 Championship games and a Super Bowl appearance with him. He also has a 50-26 record with Alex Smith...Alex freaking Smith. We already know what he has done with Mahomes but he had far more success with mediocre QBs than Belichick ever had. People who think Belichick is a great coach are brainwashed. And by the way, he's 80-93 without Brady. 11 fully coached seasons, 2 playoff appearances and only one career playoff win without him. I love the "he's a genius", "he's the best ever", "he can do no wrong", "he knows the game better than anyone". He does not know how to build a team and coach a team without Brady. Before Brady started in NE, he had one career win better than Rich Kotite. I can't stand Belichick d*ck riders

Edited October 18, 2023 by Buffalo03

[Southern Bills Fan]

It would be really difficult to fire a coach who has been so successful. But it's also unusual for a team to be so successful for such a long period without even coming close to a Super Bowl. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Zac Taylor and Nick Sirianas are probably not the two coaches you think of as great, yet both got their teams to the Super Bowl, by their third season. 

There may simply be some advantage to fresh eyes on the situation.  
 

 

Siriani chimped his way into the super bowl, was the beneficiary of San Francisco not having a QB.

 

literally.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

25 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Why?

 

Because I think the fact that Terry constantly marries up their contracts tells you that he sees them as joined at the hip. And my contact in the organisation says they are totally a pair and it is inconceivable to imagine one without the other.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

It would be really difficult to fire a coach who has been so successful. But it's also unusual for a team to be so successful for such a long period without even coming close to a Super Bowl. 

 

Evidently, you've forgotten about Marino's dolphins. Made it only once in his LONG career

 

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, ddaryl said:

He is doing a a great job with the defense. I think McDermott might have to make the decision to find an OC who can design an offense more suited for Josh. Dorseys X's and O's aren't really working for Josh

He should be doing good with the D. The majority of early picks and a lot of money in FA goes towards that D, and has been for numerous years

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

It would be really difficult to fire a coach who has been so successful. But it's also unusual for a team to be so successful for such a long period without even coming close to a Super Bowl. 

 

Eagles moved on from Andy Reid and he had a good run there despite not winning a Super Bowl.

[Southern Bills Fan]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Evidently, you've forgotten about Marino's dolphins. Made it only once in his LONG career

 

Evidently you didn't read my post. Marino made a Super Bowl, we haven't come close.

[entropyrules]

10 hours ago, Bills!Win! said:

He’s the new Marvin Lewis. Status Quo

and the beloved Marty Schottenheimer

8 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

People like to talk about coaching trees. What would be funny about that is that Ben Johnson is firmly out of the Adam Gase coaching tree. 

is there a chance that a mutation developed and maybe Johnson is an evolutionary freak on the tree?

[Chaos]

3 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Evidently, you've forgotten about Marino's dolphins. Made it only once in his LONG career

 

His Coach Don Shula did coach the only undefeated season in NFL history.  Personally I don’t McDermott has earned a similar level of goodwill to Shula.  maybe that is just me. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Chaos said:

His Coach Don Shula did coach the only undefeated season in NFL history.  Personally I don’t McDermott has earned a similar level of goodwill to Shula.  maybe that is just me. 

 

OK, so here's the challenge. Name me a coach you can GUARANTEE will get the Bills to a super bowl.

 

One.

 

 

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

8 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

It would be really difficult to fire a coach who has been so successful. But it's also unusual for a team to be so successful for such a long period without even coming close to a Super Bowl. 

Bills vs. Chiefs Game Center | 2021 AFC Championship Game

 

one game away, isn't close?

[Southern Bills Fan]

Just now, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

Bills vs. Chiefs Game Center | 2021 AFC Championship Game

 

one game away, isn't close?

Not when you get blown out.

[Starr Almighty]

I like Coach McDermott but... I would be lying if I told you I haven't dreamed of having a young up and coming Offensive mind get the HC job (Ben Johnson)

[Chaos]

5 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

Eagles moved on from Andy Reid and he had a good run there despite not winning a Super Bowl.

Tom Landry was canned. Chuck Noll was forced to retire. Super Bowl winners Doug pederson and Mike McCarthy were fired. Drought derangement syndrome may be one cause of people over eating McDermotts success level. Another possibility is that some people think the performance expectations for coaches in the NFL wre too high.  
 

I think our closest comp is Dan reeves and John Elway. Reeves for nine seasons.  Shanahan tool ever and got the Broncos to the superbowl his second season     I think McDermott will be given the whole nine seasons 

5 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

OK, so here's the challenge. Name me a coach you can GUARANTEE will get the Bills to a super bowl.

 

One.

 

 

Absurd question. Name me coaches that you guarantee can’t get to the playoffs with Josh Allen and the rest of this roster 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, Chaos said:

Absurd question. Name me coaches that you guarantee can’t get to the playoffs with Josh Allen and the rest of this roster 

 

Absurd question, yet people are ASSUMING that some other coach will produce similar results.

 

But I'll play along with you:

 

Staley heads the list

Bowles

Rivera

Smith

 

 

[Chaos]

 The question in the original post does not specify the 2023 season.  Should we interpret this to mean the 2023 season or does it mean “ever”?

10 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

Absurd question, yet people are ASSUMING that some other coach will produce similar results.

 

But I'll play along with you:

 

Staley heads the list

Bowles

Rivera

Smith

 

 

How do guarantee it. Rivera won a Super Bowl with less talent. 

[HOUSE]

Lol, there are to many situations that would weigh in here before I could possibly vote

What if Josh Allen was injured?

How is the team playing down the stretch?

Has McD lost the locker room?

Etc....

 

[SWATeam]

8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

 Rivera won a Super Bowl with less talent. 

When was that?

[boyst]

Losers are happy just getting asked to the dance. They're happy they had Ron Rivera and Cam Newton.

 

Winners ***** the prom queen. They wont settle with Marino and Shula. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 minutes ago, Chaos said:

 The question in the original post does not specify the 2023 season.  Should we interpret this to mean the 2023 season or does it mean “ever”?

How do guarantee it. Rivera won a Super Bowl with less talent. 

 

I'd take it to be acceptable meaning in either time frame, now or ever

 

There are no guarantees, yes?

 

So, there is at least an equal measure of possibility that a new coach comes in, ESPECIALLY and unproven coordinator and actually makes things WORSE.

For what? To slake the bloodthirst of a gaggle of low-comprehension fans?

 

Change for change's sake isn't always a good thing.

 

Just now, boyst said:

Losers are happy just getting asked to the dance. They're happy they had Ron Rivera and Cam Newton.

 

Winners ***** the prom queen. They wont settle with Marino and Shula. 

 

OK, genius, name me a coach you can guarantee wins the bIlls a SB

 

 

[stuvian]

As tired as I am of the "fire everybody" threads, this is a performance business. Unless our entire core goes down with injury, there's no reason we should not contend for a Superbowl. 

I still hold Clappy in high esteem as being in the upper echelon of coaches. Most notably in the win over Miami where he showed us he can make the adjustments at halftime that separate the Belichicks from the Schottenheimers.

Failure to reach the conference title game is grounds for firing but I have confidence Clappy can pull it off.

[boyst]

4 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

I'd take it to be acceptable meaning in either time frame, now or ever

 

There are no guarantees, yes?

 

So, there is at least an equal measure of possibility that a new coach comes in, ESPECIALLY and unproven coordinator and actually makes things WORSE.

For what? To slake the bloodthirst of a gaggle of low-comprehension fans?

 

Change for change's sake isn't always a good thing.

 

 

OK, genius, name me a coach you can guarantee wins the bIlls a SB

 

 

Herman Boone

Red Beaulieu

Sam Winters

Bud Kilmer

Vince Penn

...just a few names out there

Edited October 18, 2023 by boyst

[Process]

You have a top 2 QB in the league, not even making the AFCCG three years in a row should be inexcusable. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, boyst said:

Herman Boone

Red Beaulieu

Sam Winters

...just a few names out there

***** comedian here, everyone

 

[ddaryl]

37 minutes ago, BananaB said:

He should be doing good with the D. The majority of early picks and a lot of money in FA goes towards that D, and has been for numerous years

Comparing him to Frazier he is an improvement. Cosidering the injuries we've had he still has the D playing at a solid level

[boyst]

Just now, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

***** comedian here, everyone

 

Gary Gaines

Tony D'amato

BA Strothers

Wally Rig

Jimmy McGinty

Everyone here is so worried about who we get as a replacement, afraid of moving on when something isn't working.

 

that's cowardice.

 

if McDermott isn't working you don't keep him just because you don't know if you have a good option to replace him.  that's ridiculous.

 

grow some balls and move on. you don't stay in an unhealthy relationship because you don't know what is behind the next door. you don't eat what is served to you if it tastes like ***** because you are afraid the next course could be worse.

 

we have a finite window with Josh Allen. doing something is better than nothing if you feel like McDermott ain't him. and honestly, i see a lot of people leaning toward he ain't him but saying well, he will do. it's gross

11 minutes ago, SWATeam said:

When was that?

Madden '18. Newton recovered a fumble!

[boyst]

38 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

OK, so here's the challenge. Name me a coach you can GUARANTEE will get the Bills to a super bowl.

 

One.

 

 

Ted Lasso

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

6 minutes ago, boyst said:

doing something is better than nothing if you feel like McDermott ain't him. and honestly, i see a lot of people leaning toward he ain't him but saying well, he will do. it's gross

 

 

not everyone shares your assessment. ever consider that?

 

some people, typically those who are less emotional, can see the benefit of keeping the man around.

 

[mrags]

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Everyone here knows its incredibly hard to win a Super Bowl right?  11 Coaches have won a Super Bowl in the last 20 years in the NFL.  So you guys want to fire the best coach in Bills history if the team doesnt get to the AFC Championship Game?

 

Should the Ravens fire John Harbaugh?  Sure he won a Superbowl, but that was 2012.   He's missed the playoffs 6 of 10 years since, and hasnt made it past the divisional round in 10 years.     Is anyone going to argue John Harbaugh is a bad football coach?

 

Bottom line is you have to be in the playoffs to win championships and our current head coach has missed the playoffs 1 time in 6 years.   If McDermott were to be fired he'd have another head coaching job this offseason.

 

For the people calling Mcdemott Marvin Lewis, stop, you're making yourself look like a fool.   Lewis has a .511 career winning percentage, and never won a playoff game.     That dude got 16 years, and you guys are trying to fire McDermott, a guy with the best winning percentage in Bills history, and 4 playoff wins in 6 years, because you dont like that he claps a lot or because Daboll is more fun. 

 

Top ten defense in 4 of 7 years.   Top ten offense in 4 of 7 years.   Brought your team a franchise QB.  Wins constantly.      Stop with the fire McDermott nonsense.    You dont fire a proven winner for an up and coming coordinator. 

 

I suspect you guys all want someone more like Kyle Shanahan?   The guy who has lost more games than McDermott?  The offensive genius who has made it one round further than McDermott and still lost?  The guy who who has missed the playoffs 3 of 6 years?   Guess what, Kyle Shanhan was never coming to Buffalo.  Do you know why?  Because before Mcdermott and Beane the Bills were a trash franchise who had to hire guys like Dick Jauron and Chan Gailey because real coaches didnt want to come here.  

 

Please for the love of God, put a little respect on McDermott's name instead of constantly complaining.   He brought this franchise back to legitimacy.  The people complaining about McDermott are the type of guys who marry a supermodel and then complain about her one leg being longer than the other.  Please stop.

Here’s the problems with your arguments 

 

-best coach in team history means nothing. If it did, Bilecheck wouldn’t be on the hot seat. 
 

-Harbaugh has proven he can win big games. Has won a superBowl. Something McD literally hasn’t ever done. 
 

-who cares if or where he coaches if, huge if, he gets fired. Not our problem. 
 

-one could argue he’s actually worse than Lewis. Lewis never had the talent or the QB that McD has. 
 

-you said it yourself with the Lewis point. Even with a top 10 offense and top 10 defense in 4 out of 7 years. With all the money and resources spent on this defense, and a defensive minded guru still can’t do it well enough to win the big game. In fact he’s shown the opposite in times like 13 seconds and his lack of life in the Bengals divisional game. Not to mention losing to the Jags in his first playoff appearance against the Jags in 2017. And looking absolutely terrible in the AFCCG against the chiefs. 
 

-Kyle Shanahan has made the NFC championship game 3 times in the same time frame that McDermott has only made it to 1. He’s been to the SuperBowl once. Oh, and he’s done it all with QBs like Garopollo, last guy in the draft Brock Purdy, Nick Mullins, and CJ Beathard. While McDermott has one of the best 3 QBs in the game. Imo it’s not even arguable the success that Shanahan has had over McDermott. 

7 minutes ago, boyst said:

Ted Lasso

Don’t forget Tony D’amato 

[boyst]

10 minutes ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:

 

not everyone shares your assessment. ever consider that?

 

some people, typically those who are less emotional, can see the benefit of keeping the man around.

 

the inverse if true of you. especially demanding that we provide a name of a certified, bona fide, qualified, exemplified super bowl winning coach.

8 minutes ago, mrags said:

Here’s the problems with your arguments 

 

-best coach in team history means nothing. If it did, Bilecheck wouldn’t be on the hot seat. 
 

-Harbaugh has proven he can win big games. Has won a superBowl. Something McD literally hasn’t ever done. 
 

-who cares if or where he coaches if, huge if, he gets fired. Not our problem. 
 

-one could argue he’s actually worse than Lewis. Lewis never had the talent or the QB that McD has. 
 

-you said it yourself with the Lewis point. Even with a top 10 offense and top 10 defense in 4 out of 7 years. With all the money and resources spent on this defense, and a defensive minded guru still can’t do it well enough to win the big game. In fact he’s shown the opposite in times like 13 seconds and his lack of life in the Bengals divisional game. Not to mention losing to the Jags in his first playoff appearance against the Jags in 2017. And looking absolutely terrible in the AFCCG against the chiefs. 
 

-Kyle Shanahan has made the NFC championship game 3 times in the same time frame that McDermott has only made it to 1. He’s been to the SuperBowl once. Oh, and he’s done it all with QBs like Garopollo, last guy in the draft Brock Purdy, Nick Mullins, and CJ Beathard. While McDermott has one of the best 3 QBs in the game. Imo it’s not even arguable the success that Shanahan has had over McDermott. 

Don’t forget Tony D’amato 

already listed him

[mrags]

1 minute ago, boyst said:

the inverse if true of you. especially demanding that we provide a name of a certified, bona fide, qualified, exemplified super bowl winning coach.

already listed him

Must have missed it. Sorry 

[Gunsgoodtime]

I voted yes, not because of not making to the AFCCG, I just believe McDermott is not a good enough coach to win the SB.  He gets outcoached every year in the playoffs.  He did a great job turning the team around, but I feel we hit the ceiling a couple years ago.  I don't want to see Josh Allens career being wasted by a defensive minded head coach who refuses to upgrade the WR room to give Josh what he needs.  I don't feel like we could be much worse with this roster, Josh Allen and a new offensive minded head coach

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, mrags said:

 

-Kyle Shanahan has made the NFC championship game 3 times in the same time frame that McDermott has only made it to 1. He’s been to the SuperBowl once. Oh, and he’s done it all with QBs like Garopollo, last guy in the draft Brock Purdy, Nick Mullins, and CJ Beathard. While McDermott has one of the best 3 QBs in the game. Imo it’s not even arguable the success that Shanahan has had over McDermott. 

 

 

If the Bills were in the NFC McDermott would have made a Superbowl. I have zero doubt. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If the Bills were in the NFC McDermott would have made a Superbowl. I have zero doubt. 

Especially facing off against a 49ers team with literally no qbs