The Bills biggest problem on offense remains unchanged

[Simon]

It continues to be the same problem that has been plaguing them for three years, and that problem is Spencer Brown.

I give them credit for the solid job they have done hiding him so far, but the fact that they continue to have to go out of their way to protect him every week is absolutely handicapping what should be a much more efficient offense. When you have to commit skill players to blocking roles that often, it's like they're playing 10 on 11 out there.

If you wonder why Kincaid and Knox aren't having big impacts check and see how long it takes them to actually get into their routes when they have to spend extra time protecting Spencer Brown before they can leave the LOS.

If you wonder where Damien Harris and Latavius Murray are, look how often they are being asked to cover Spencer Brown. Hell, the Bills are actually using Murray on the LOS just to engage DE's while Brown is still getting set up in pass pro.

 

I really like Spencer Brown and am glad he is on the roster. You tell him to bury the guy in front of him on a 34 dive, and that's what he'll usually do. But he simply does not have the feet to be a complete OT in the modern NFL and is never going to. The necessity for the Bills to take skill players and put them on their heels to protect Brown instead of using them to attack defenses is making it impossible for them to maximize their offensive talent. And as long as they insist on putting a Tackle out there who can't play Tackle in this league, it's going to continue to be a problem all year.

I'm not a GM and have no idea what the in-season solution could be, or if there is even one available. The time to address the issue was the offseason and they didn't do enough solve the problem. I'm not saying it is going to sink their season down the road, but it is certainly going to make things much harder then they needed to be on offense for the rest of this year.

[John from Riverside]

There is no in season solution. If something happens to brown, it’ll be a ifede

 

I think Browns playing OK yes he’s getting help

[TheyCallMeAndy]

0 sacks.

 

He’s had help, but he’s been ok. The fact he’s shown improvement thus far says let’s see how much improvement he continues to make over the season. 

[SoCal Deek]

Isn’t this why the team has a highly paid coaching staff? They better get to work and scheme up an offense that accounts for Brown’s shortcomings. And remember….No team has 22 Pro Bowlers on their starting roster. 

[Solomon Grundy]

I'd still like to see them acquire a "real" deep threat with reliable hands. 

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

The fact he’s shown improvement thus far says let’s see how much improvement he continues to make over the season.

 

The suggestion that he's shown improvement is not in any way a "fact".

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Gabe Davis.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Just don't agree with the OP. Brown has been good enough against good competition.  He's been better than Dawkins. 

The problems on offense is the inability to execute a screen play, the inability to get more downfield throws to Knox and Kincaid, and the failure of the two new WRs to make any impact. 

Why this team can't execute a screen is beyond me. 

Not getting Kincaid and Knox deep down the seams is on Dorsey.

The true slot WR spot should go to Shakir. No he isn't a gadget guy but he is a solid WR that finds ways to get open. He is a slightly less quick Beasley 2.0.

[Simon]

1 minute ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

He's been better than Dawkins. 

 

  

[LABILLBACKER]

All last season he was our worst  OLineman after Saffold. Now for 3 straight weeks he's still our lowest rated lineman.  I guess the only advantage is if your going to get flushed out of the pocket,  it's better for a right handed qb to roll away from pressure right.  Can't see Spencer starting next season. We'll be drafting a RT early.

[Scott7975]

25 minutes ago, Simon said:

It continues to be the same problem that has been plaguing them for three years, and that problem is Spencer Brown.

I give them credit for the solid job they have done hiding him so far, but the fact that they continue to have to go out of their way to protect him every week is absolutely handicapping what should be a much more efficient offense. When you have to commit skill players to blocking roles that often, it's like they're playing 10 on 11 out there.

If you wonder why Kincaid and Knox aren't having big impacts check and see how long it takes them to actually get into their routes when they have to spend extra time protecting Spencer Brown before they can leave the LOS.

If you wonder where Damien Harris and Latavius Murray are, look how often they are being asked to cover Spencer Brown. Hell, the Bills are actually using Murray on the LOS just to engage DE's while Brown is still getting set up in pass pro.

 

I really like Spencer Brown and am glad he is on the roster. You tell him to bury the guy in front of him on a 34 dive, and that's what he'll usually do. But he simply does not have the feet to be a complete OT in the modern NFL and is never going to. The necessity for the Bills to take skill players and put them on their heels to protect Brown instead of using them to attack defenses is making it impossible for them to maximize their offensive talent. And as long as they insist on putting a Tackle out there who can't play Tackle in this league, it's going to continue to be a problem all year.

I'm not a GM and have no idea what the in-season solution could be, or if there is even one available. The time to address the issue was the offseason and they didn't do enough solve the problem. I'm not saying it is going to sink their season down the road, but it is certainly going to make things much harder then they needed to be on offense for the rest of this year.

 

I'm glad someone else gets this.  Our passing game is affected by this.  Mostly the TE's.  By the time they get in their route, Josh has already moved on the read.  The routes just take too long when we got two extra people trying to help Brown out.  Brown is doing ok with the help.  Once he is in position, he usually holds the block pretty well.  He is just too slow to get in position.

 

Our passing game would be so much better if he didn't need the help all the time.  Dorsey could also get some better route designs though.  Some of them take way too long.  Others, I am not sure if its him or receivers running bad routes but I see plays almost every game where at least two receivers are in the same area. This stems back to last year too.

[SoCal Deek]

The Bills just destroyed the Commanders in a game in which we had something like NINE sacks while our starting RB nearly broke 100 yards and we choose now to complain about the offensive line? Okie Dokie? 

[Simon]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

The Bills just destroyed the Commanders in a game in which we had something like NINE sacks while our starting RB nearly broke 100 yards and we choose now to complain about the offensive line? Okie Dokie? 

 

I'm not talking about the offensive line.

I'm talking about Spencer Brown.

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Simon said:

 

I'm not talking about the offensive line.

I'm talking about Spencer Brown.

I’m fully aware. Just seems to me the complaining should reserved for Washington fans….at least this week anyway. 

[Chaos]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

I'm not talking about the offensive line.

I'm talking about Spencer Brown.

I agree Spencer Brown is a problem.  But I think the biggest problem on offense remains red zone play calling. 

[oldmanfan]

Why do so many fans feel the need to assign a player as the designated punching bag?  This year it’s Brown.  Last few year Edmunds with a sprinkling of Oliver and Saffold.  Brown has done OK so far.

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m fully aware. Just seems to me the complaining should reserved for Washington fans….at least this week anyway. 

 

I just watched the Bills 3 RBs and 2 TEs combine for a grand total of about 30yrds receiving (or about 6 yrds per player) because they're busy spending half the game playing RT. It's a problem just about every week, regardless of whether they win.

[Scott7975]

1 minute ago, oldmanfan said:

Why do so many fans feel the need to assign a player as the designated punching bag?  This year it’s Brown.  Last few year Edmunds with a sprinkling of Oliver and Saffold.  Brown has done OK so far.

 

It's just discussing a weakness on the team.  

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

 

It's just discussing a weakness on the team.  

Nope.  It’s picking out a punching bag.  Happens every year.  

[newcam2012]

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I'm not talking about the offensive line.

I'm talking about Spencer Brown.

Also, I think most are concerned long term or for the season with regards to Brown. Not just one game the Bills winnin Wash. 

 

Weaknesses have a way of being exposed. It's pretty clear Brown isn't a strength of the Oline. Almost seems like it's a matter of time before he severely hampers the Bills chances to win. 

 

I going to perhaps throw out a different way to look at the situation. The Bills coaches know Brown is subpar. They came up with various schemes to help him out. Thus far, it's been really effective. I think you have to give the Bills coaches credit here. Sure it creates some issues in the pass game as noted. However, Allen has had some decent time to throw the ball. That's paramount and priority number one. 

 

Going into the season with Brown as your starting tackle is a whole nother animal to discuss. 

 

[Scott7975]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

Nope.  It’s picking out a punching bag.  Happens every year.  

 

Well if the "punching bag" is a weakness of a team then people are going to talk about it.  Why is it a problem to talk about a weak player?

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I just watched the Bills 3 RBs and 2 TEs combine for a grand total of about 30yrds receiving (or about 6 yrds per player) because they're busy spending half the game playing RT. It's a problem just about every week, regardless of whether they win.

It’s definitely a weak spot Simon. Nobody is arguing that. Not even me. The point is that THIS is the team for the remainder of 2023. If you can ‘watch’ that weakness from your television I’m going to assume the highly paid coaching staff can as well. Now…let’s see if they make adjustments for it. As I’m sure you’re aware, there isn’t a starting RT waiting to swoop in from the union Hall. 

Edited September 27, 2023 by SoCal Deek

[mannc]

1 minute ago, SoCal Deek said:

It’s definitely a sea spot Simon. Nobody is arguing that. Not even me. The point is that this is the team for the remainder of 2023. If can ‘watch’ that weakness from your television I’m going to assume the highly paid coaching staff can as well. Now…let’s see if they make adjustments for it. As I’m sure you’re aware, there isn’t a starting RT waiting to swoop in from the union Hall. 

As I understand the OP's point, the coaching staff has made adjustments for Brown, and it's those adjustments that are crippling us... 

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, mannc said:

As I understand the OP's point, the coaching staff has made adjustments for Brown, and it's those adjustments that are crippling us... 

Again….no argument on the adjustments but ‘crippling’ us? Seems a tad harsh. Every team has a weak spot. Some have many. I don’t see this as being a huge issue, yet. It’s a long season and as Gene Hackman said in Hoosiers: “THIS is your team.”

[Simon]

8 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Nope.  It’s picking out a punching bag.  Happens every year.  

 

Can you tell me who I've picked out as a punching bag every other year?

No? Then maybe you should stop making up stuff about me and stick to the subject of the thread instead of dragging my discussion off topic.

[mannc]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Again….no argument on the adjustments but ‘crippling’ us? Seems a tad harsh. Every team has a weak spot. Some have many. I don’t see this as being a huge issue, yet. It’s a long season and as Gene Hackman said in Hoosiers: “THIS is your team.”

You said "let's wait for the adjustments" and my point was that the adjustments have already been made and the adjustments themselves are a problem.  I guess we could argue about how big of a problem they are but that wasn't my real point...

[Rigotz]

What's the deal with this topic title?

 

"The Bills biggest problem on offense remains unchanged"

 

Last year, was it not Saffold? Rookie playcaller in Dorsey? Lack of a good slot option?

 

Or ... if we're talking about this year ... what were you expecting after 3 games that is now so unchanged? Spencer Brown was going to take the Week 3 Leap?

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, mannc said:

You said "let's wait for the adjustments" and my point was that the adjustments have already been made and the adjustments themselves are a problem.  I guess we could argue about how big of a problem they are but that wasn't my real point...

While adjustments have been made they’re never done until the coaches see if they’re working. The roster is set. The adjusting goes on all throughout the year and into the playoffs…God willing. 

[ChronicAndKnuckles]

27 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Why do so many fans feel the need to assign a player as the designated punching bag?  This year it’s Brown.  Last few year Edmunds with a sprinkling of Oliver and Saffold.  Brown has done OK so far.

Saffold deserved every punch thrown in his direction. That guy was just straight up awful. 

[Einstein's Dog]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

You said "let's wait for the adjustments" and my point was that the adjustments have already been made and the adjustments themselves are a problem.  I guess we could argue about how big of a problem they are but that wasn't my real point...

Actually, I don't think the adjustments have been a problem.  We have faced two of the best defensive lines in the league and their damage has been limited.  Against lesser competition the plan could differ significantly.

 

9 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Because you're not dragging my discussion off into B word fest #3,679 about Offensive Coordinators

 

And my opinion of a different biggest problem on offense was deemed off-topic?

[BuffAlone]

1 hour ago, Simon said:

 

The suggestion that he's shown improvement is not in any way a "fact".

If not statistically a "fact", what do you call it??

[oldmanfan]

25 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Well if the "punching bag" is a weakness of a team then people are going to talk about it.  Why is it a problem to talk about a weak player?

I have been watching Brown every game thus far.  He has played OK.  Too many fans have confirmation bias and/or think you should have All Pro caliber guys at every position.

[Simon]

1 minute ago, BuffAlone said:

If not statistically a "fact", what do you call it??

Opinion?

Hope?

Groupthink?

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

0 sacks.

 

He’s had help, but he’s been ok. The fact he’s shown improvement thus far says let’s see how much improvement he continues to make over the season. 

 

Thats...contradictory, isn't it?

 

27 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Nope.  It’s picking out a punching bag.  Happens every year.  

 

I'll put it out there...I'm pretty sure @Simon has forgotten more ball than I know, and it's not his habit to participate in the annual whipping boy contest.

 

If he sees Spencer Brown as still a problem and still receiving help in pass pro to the extent that it limits our offense, that's probably what's going down.

[Beck Water]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

I have been watching Brown every game thus far.  He has played OK.  Too many fans have confirmation bias and/or think you should have All Pro caliber guys at every position.

 

I don't think we should have All-pro caliber guys at every position. 

 

But needing to have a TE chip or assign an RB to help almost every pass play, does limit our offense. #facts

[oldmanfan]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

I don't think we should have All-pro caliber guys at every position. 

 

But needing to have a TE chip or assign an RB to help almost every pass play, does limit our offense. #facts

And it is not almost every play.  Watch the games.

[Einstein's Dog]

6 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

While adjustments have been made they’re never done until the coaches see if they’re working. The roster is set. The adjusting goes on all throughout the year and into the playoffs…God willing. 

Just because they gave the offensive line help against one of the best defensive lines in football does not mean they will do that every game.

 

Secondly the roster could have adjustments.  There could be an in-season trade for a WR2 for example.

[Beck Water]

Just now, oldmanfan said:

And it is not almost every play.  Watch the games.

 

Oh, true,  There are the pass plays which get blown up, or where Josh evades, or where he gets hit.

 

I didn't say almost every play - I said almost every pass play.  I give Spencer Brown his propers - he's a mauler in run blocking.

[oldmanfan]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Oh, true,  There are the pass plays which get blown up, or where Josh evades, or where he gets hit.

 

I didn't say almost every play - I said almost every pass play.  I give Spencer Brown his propers - he's a mauler in run blocking.

Yes.  It’s not almost every pass play either.  Some yes.  You’d be nuts to just let Crosby go wild for example.  But he did just fine Sunday.

 

What are realistic expectations?  Should a RT allow no pressures in a game?  If that is what people expect there are very few players who pass that test.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

I’ll give you that it’s definitely a hinderence. It isn’t my most concerning thought about the offense.

 

Despite their recent perceived success, I don’t thjnj they have the horses at WR2/3 and TE to win 1v1 consistently in a way that would benefit Allen, taking pressure of his plate by structuring more quick game. 
 

As discussed in numerous other threads, this is not a Dorsey nor Allen strength. I don’t think ot necessarily want it to be. I do however wish they had the option if they needed to.