83 yard run. Sean McDermott made an interesting comment.

[dorquemada]

5 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

meh,  was a blitz,  and they got caught.  happens all the time.   thats the chance you take with sending extra guys,  thats the difference in Frasier and McD.    Frasier was more careful.   both styles of D have their positives and negatives.   everybody wanted more pressure,  well,  sometimes long plays happen from it.

 

was thinking the same thing, and I was one of the guys whining the loudest about Frasier last year, that his D would have held them there to a first down or two then a punt

[Beck Water]

41 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I saw it and am aware of what happened. 

I also know that if he called a timeout every time something like that happened, he'd be out of them in about a quarter.

 

This.

 

When McDermott chose a 2nd year player who scarcely saw the field last year to play MLB, he had to know there would be mistakes.

 

In fact he flat out said so.

 

Here's the thing though: at the time that run broke, the score was 3-0. 

After that run broke, the score was 3-3. 

Next series after that run broke, the score was 10-3.  At the half, the score was 13-3.

 

That one long run was neither the difference, nor the problem with the game.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, bigduke6 said:

meh,  was a blitz,  and they got caught.  happens all the time.   thats the chance you take with sending extra guys,  thats the difference in Frasier and McD.    Frasier was more careful.   both styles of D have their positives and negatives.   everybody wanted more pressure,  well,  sometimes long plays happen from it.

No it doesn’t. They were in the wrong alignment. 
 

Yes teams get caught on a blitz and give up big plays, but this was a different situation where they lined up wrong. The blitz made it worse.

[Not at the table Karlos]

59 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

You want him to call a defensive timeout every time he sees something he doesn't like?

If it prevents an 80 yard run, yes. 

 

42 minutes ago, Logic said:

This. 

These are the growing pains of a second year middle linebacker making his first NFL start after missing all of preseason.

This may seem like pouring salt into already gaping wounds, but...I have a feeling that if Aaron Rodgers had been healthy all game, the Bills defense might have had a loooong night.

I had complete opposite feeling. Rodgers was getting harassed every play and isn't as mobile as Wilson. I feel we win easily if Rodgers played the whole game. 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Do yourself a favor and watch Bernard on that play. 

[jkeerie]

The coaches see a lot more post game when they review the film.  

[MafiaSouth]

It wasn't the alignment as much as it was the idiotic blitz called and the failure to (1). blitz the correct gap (2). maintain that gap and don't run past the event and (3). make the tackle...All three were unforced errors...

Edited September 12, 2023 by MafiaSouth

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Just had to get this off my chest because I’m just now listening to some postgame comments.

 

McDermott said they were misaligned on the big 83 yard run.

 

McDermott is never shy about using timeouts, we all know this. It’s kind of a running joke around here. But when he sees his defense outmatched due to alignment he doesn’t call timeout?

 

This is the type of coaching that loses games. 😡

short of the players still being in the huddle, I’m not sure I’m calling a timeout against a goal line formation inside their own 5. 
 

losing that play for nationally shouldn’t be 80 yards ever. It was the missed gaps, and poor play after the snap at fault.

[Saint Doug]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I was wondering this myself. I didn't think it was possible for a 300+ pound DT to be invisible, but Ford managed it (if he played that is)

That’s how McD prefers his DTs. Invisible. 

[TD716]

2 hours ago, appoo said:

He was looking for a defensive score

Did McDermott think jets were going to let Wilson drop into the end zone and pass, I don’t think so. 

[zow2]

2 hours ago, Chaos said:

Why don’t we break 83 yard runs against other teams?  Do they get out of alignment too?

 

Don’t worry.  Cook will break through an arm tackle this weekend to take one to the house 83 yards 😜

[DaggersEOD]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

We pretty much got to him on every play he was in, right?

 

2 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

Four plays; each time.

IMO we were geared up and aligned for a game where Rodgers was slinging it all game. It was all about QB pressure/hits and it seemingly worked too well. 
 

We never expected him to be out at all, let alone so soon. If he was in, there was no way they were going to rely on the run. He was the star, they were going to lean on him come heck or high water. 
 

As soon as he was out, the Jets “put on a tourniquet” went back to their fundamentals, which are strong, and obviously found some success. 
 

I also think we’re built to have a lead, but that implies passing/abandoning the run. This odd circumstances made that impossible for the jests, and I believe we were caught flat footed. 
 

Like we focused on the passing calls/alignments and didn’t review the running reads as much for the new guy. 
 

I think we will only get better. 

[cgg716]

He can call it the alignment if he wants, it's the scheme, undersized but quick for pass coverage purposes, too undersized to stop the run. Been exactly the same thing since year 1, an undisciplined bunch, running a scheme that the league adjusted to 20+ years ago. The constant failure of a defensive coach to adjust and change is an even bigger red flag than everything happening on offense 

[BIGFOOTspaceman]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

Of course they do occasionally; if you're runplay is called to the specific gap that is poorly covered and oth your LB and S misplay it also, then we could end up wiht an 83 yrd run.

😂

 

Im dying at the thought that the Bills could pull off an 83 yard run in this regime…mis-alignment or not.  

[GunnerBill]

If he had calles timeout every time they were misaligned in the first half last night he'd have needed about a dozen. They were better 2nd half and getting things lined up is an area where I think Bernard needed those reps he missed pre-season. I am willing to give him some time on that.

[Beck Water]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

If he had calles timeout every time they were misaligned in the first half last night he'd have needed about a dozen. They were better 2nd half and getting things lined up is an area where I think Bernard needed those reps he missed pre-season. I am willing to give him some time on that.

 

 

Agree.

 

And one of two things will happen.  Either Bernard will get it together, and quickly - or Bernard will be benched for Kirksey.  Having decided (apparently) that Dodson was not going to handle the pressure of being QB of the Defense with poise, the Bills pivoted to develop a Plan C.

[appoo]

59 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

That’s how McD prefers his DTs. Invisible. 

When you play Gap Control, you often get lost to live viewers because all you're going is taking up space. The reality is a good gap control DT moves 1 blocker, and impacts a 2nd blocker, while only moving half a yard left or right to take control of a gap. 

 

This isn't to say that Poona had a good or bad game, but if you want to grade, you're really going to have to review the tape. That's not something that will pop during live action. 

11 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

Agree.

 

And one of two things will happen.  Either Bernard will get it together, and quickly - or Bernard will be benched for Kirksey.  Having decided (apparently) that Dodson was not going to handle the pressure of being QB of the Defense with poise, the Bills pivoted to develop a Plan C.

So Bernard played a crap ton of both man and zone coverage, something probably even Edmunds couldn't do. Asking Kirksey to play any kind of coverage is gonna get you in a world of trouble. He's an emergency use backer when we want 3 backers out there. 

 

My guess is that Terrell will grade out well in coverage

Edited September 12, 2023 by appoo

[bobobonators]

3 hours ago, TD716 said:

He blitzed the whole second level of the defense on that play. I agree we should be more aggressive compared to the last few years but there is no way Zach Wilson is driving 95 yards for a score

on a positive, I felt the defense was pretty good yesterday. Even against Rodgers for 4 plays lol. 
 

The TD by Wilson was a complete circus catch. 

[appoo]

7 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

on a positive, I felt the defense was pretty good yesterday. Even against Rodgers for 4 plays lol. 
 

The TD by Wilson was a complete circus catch. 

All 3 Rodgers' drop backs he was running for his life. Maybe not an Achilles, but he wasn't going to finish that game, and honestly playing an ultra conservative game plan with Wilson probably played out better than Rodgers dropping back and passing without max protect. Now would the Jets have gone to that conservative game plan with Rodgers in the game? I wouldn't trust Hackett any further than I could pick him up and throw him

1 hour ago, TD716 said:

Did McDermott think jets were going to let Wilson drop into the end zone and pass, I don’t think so. 

If they were, it would have been first down

Edited September 12, 2023 by appoo

[The Frankish Reich]

3 hours ago, TD716 said:

He blitzed the whole second level of the defense on that play. I agree we should be more aggressive compared to the last few years but there is no way Zach Wilson is driving 95 yards for a score

That was symptomatic of the entire night. As soon as Rodgers went down, the game plan - offense and defense - needed to take that into account. There was no reason to believe that the Jets would hit even 20 points with Wilson at QB, and of course they only made it to 16 in regulation, with an assist from Josh Allen

[peterpan]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Just had to get this off my chest because I’m just now listening to some postgame comments.

 

McDermott said they were misaligned on the big 83 yard run.

 

McDermott is never shy about using timeouts, we all know this. It’s kind of a running joke around here. But when he sees his defense outmatched due to alignment he doesn’t call timeout?

 

This is the type of coaching that loses games. 😡

I don’t mean to brag but!!  
 

 

[kjack151]

Did you all realize that since McD has taken over we've had a running back break a long run every year? Dalvin Cook last year, Damian Harris (NE now with Bills), Derrick Henry, Miles Sanders, can't think of the running back from Washington that did it...I don't see this happening with any other team so consistently.  Just an observation.  

[Simon]

1 minute ago, kjack151 said:

I don't see this happening with any other team so consistently.

 

I would guess that it's because you don't watch any other team so consistently?

I'd guess that just about every defense gives up one really long run every year.

[henry jones]

The real question is… How do they not realize there are 8 big bodies on offense and we have 4 on defense?  I mean, they’re on the 2 with Zach friggen Wilson at QB.  They’re not going up top.  Cant believe how many times they go small on defense in obvious running situations.  100% piss poor coaching

6 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I would guess that it's because you don't watch any other team so consistently?

I'd guess that just about every defense gives up one really long run every year.

This happens routinely every game… to us

Edited September 13, 2023 by henry jones

[HumbleAndHungry]

I think we should swap McDermott for Daboll.  I'd even throw Gabe Davis in the deal to sweeten the pot 

[gjv]

Are we talking about the Halls run of 83 yards that would have gained only 2 yards if Tre White didn't whiff on the tackle?

[Simon]

11 minutes ago, gjv said:

Are we talking about the Halls run of 83 yards that would have gained only 2 yards if Tre White didn't whiff on the tackle?

 

If you take the time to read the thread instead of making smarmy comments, you might learn more about it.

[34-78-83]

6 hours ago, Simon said:

 

My guess is that this one falls on Bernard, who possibly didn't recognize the overload and didn't get them to slide up front.

And who also buried himself inside where Rousseau was being buried by a double and left Tre White isolated outside with contain responsibility.

pretty darn close... it's revealed in Erik Turner's film review of Bernard. Bernard needed to have the whole 2nd level group (LB's plus Trey White) shift one gap over to their left to properly align to the 3TE formation used by the Jets off-balance right.

[HoofHearted]

5 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

The LBs were misaligned. They should all have shifted over to the right. 

Doesn't look like the LBs at all. Looks like we rolled coverage the wrong way. The DL stunts and Backer fits are all working in tandem. Micah is rolling down into a covered gap. He's the outlier.

6 hours ago, TD716 said:

He blitzed the whole second level of the defense on that play. I agree we should be more aggressive compared to the last few years but there is no way Zach Wilson is driving 95 yards for a score

Wasn't a blitz at all. Just dudes being dudes and reading keys and filling gaps fast.

[34-78-83]

3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Doesn't look like the LBs at all. Looks like we rolled coverage the wrong way. The DL stunts and Backer fits are all working in tandem. Micah is rolling down into a covered gap. He's the outlier.

see what you think of Erik's take on it starting at 5:22

 

[Simon]

3 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Doesn't look like the LBs at all. Looks like we rolled coverage the wrong way. The DL stunts and Backer fits are all working in tandem. Micah is rolling down into a covered gap. He's the outlier.

 

You guys might be watching different plays.

They didn't get caught in any stunts up front and Hyde is 10yrds off the ball

[TwistofFate]

23 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Doesn't look like the LBs at all. Looks like we rolled coverage the wrong way. The DL stunts and Backer fits are all working in tandem. Micah is rolling down into a covered gap. He's the outlier.

Wasn't a blitz at all. Just dudes being dudes and reading keys and filling gaps fast.

I posted the film break down in this thread.  Cover 1 showed exactly how they were misaligned.  It was the linebackers. 

[HoofHearted]

29 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

see what you think of Erik's take on it starting at 5:22

 

Yeah, I watched that after the user posted it. Erik says it's just his opinion and what he's saying is logical from the standpoint of just trying to put bodies in gaps, but when you look at the defense wholistically it doesn't really make a ton of sense. We're showing a true 4-3 over front pre-snap to their 13 personnel set. Rapp and Epenesa are clearly working an exchange to the field (Epenesa pinching to B gap while Rapp works C). Everyone else is playing their gap integrity vs the Duo Run Concept they get. Backers see it quick and react quick - really good reads by both of them. We're disguising our Hole coverage as Quarters pre-snap (which is why I don't think a timeout was called - we wouldn't know until the safeties start rolling the wrong way that we're not gapped out and by that point it's too late). Micah is rolling into the box but to a covered gap. Structurally we wouldn't ever put our Mike outside the box and keep our Will inside the box, plus we would never ask a Safety to be an A gap fitter, so the backer shift doesn't make sense.

9 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

I posted the film break down in this thread.  Cover 1 showed exactly how they were misaligned.  It was the linebackers. 

No, Cover 1 gave their opinion.

Edited September 13, 2023 by HoofHearted

[Bubba Gump]

Jordan Poyer mentioned the alignment problem before we heard from McD. Wonder if there is some miscommunication happening. I really think Sean is taking on more than he can handle by taking over the defense. He also had a strange comment when he said "T-Bass made a great kick". I never knew doinking one off the upright was considered a great kick. And 9/10 kicks that hit an upright usually bounce out. That was pure luck. But I will say that kick was booted. From 50 yards out, it hit the flag at the top of the upright. It woulda been good from 65+ if straight. 

[34-78-83]

15 minutes ago, HoofHearted said:

Yeah, I watched that after the user posted it. Erik says it's just his opinion and what he's saying is logical from the standpoint of just trying to put bodies in gaps, but when you look at the defense wholistically it doesn't really make a ton of sense. We're showing a true 4-3 over front pre-snap to their 13 personnel set. Rapp and Epenesa are clearly working an exchange to the field (Epenesa pinching to B gap while Rapp works C). Everyone else is playing their gap integrity vs the Duo Run Concept they get. Backers see it quick and react quick - really good reads by both of them. We're disguising our Hole coverage as Quarters pre-snap (which is why I don't think a timeout was called - we wouldn't know until the safeties start rolling the wrong way that we're not gapped out and by that point it's too late). Micah is rolling into the box but to a covered gap. Structurally we wouldn't ever put our Mike outside the box and keep our Will inside the box, plus we would never ask a Safety to be an A gap fitter, so the backer shift doesn't make sense.

No, Cover 1 gave their opinion.

Ok, it sounds like the all-22 full view perspective offers that more readily than what his zoom-in shows. And your 4-3 Over familiarity is appreciated. I still would like to think a full group-shift left call (just the distance it takes to get Bernard directly behind Groot, and Milano centered to the O-line) would have benefited angles and leverage like Erik was seemingly alluding to, but idk for sure.

[HoofHearted]

Just now, 34-78-83 said:

Ok, it sounds like the all-22 full view perspective offers that more readily than what his zoom-in shows. And your 4-3 Over familiarity is appreciated. I still would like to think a full group-shift left call (just the distance it takes to get Bernard directly behind Groot, and Milano centered to the O-line) would have benefited angles and leverage like Erik was seemingly alluding to, but idk for sure.

Sure but then that makes Micah your field side A gap run fitter which isn’t something they would do.

[MarkKelso'sHelmet]

35 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

Jordan Poyer mentioned the alignment problem before we heard from McD. Wonder if there is some miscommunication happening. I really think Sean is taking on more than he can handle by taking over the defense. He also had a strange comment when he said "T-Bass made a great kick". I never knew doinking one off the upright was considered a great kick. And 9/10 kicks that hit an upright usually bounce out. That was pure luck. But I will say that kick was booted. From 50 yards out, it hit the flag at the top of the upright. It woulda been good from 65+ if straight. 

 If it the football goes through the uprights it's a great kick. If it misses, it's a terrible kick. It's pretty black and white. 

 

Aside from that, McDermott should be on the hot seat. If you're not getting better, you're getting worse. What's his plan for team to get better?

[kjack151]

2 hours ago, Simon said:

 

I would guess that it's because you don't watch any other team so consistently?

I'd guess that just about every defense gives up one really long run every year.

I’m suggesting that there is a flaw in the scheme or personnel that allows this to happen every year.  I have seen Bills teams in the past where this does not happen.   I’m also willing to bet that this does not happen to every team, though I have no proof. 

[Bubba Gump]

2 minutes ago, MarkKelso'sHelmet said:

 If it the football goes through the uprights it's a great kick. If it misses, it's a terrible kick. It's pretty black and white. 

 

Aside from that, McDermott should be on the hot seat. If you're not getting better, you're getting worse. What's his plan for team to get better?

 

McDermott should've been on the hot seat after 13 seconds. His ass should be on fire right now. And him letting Allen basically choose his own OC is a problem. Did the Bills even interview anyone else for the OC job? I can't remember. 

[John from Riverside]

Guaranteed if McDermott was using his timeouts every time he didn’t see some thing he liked people would be losing their ***** here that he was wasting time outs