Training Camp 7/30 9:45am

[Warcodered]

 

10 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

It's finally here!

 

 

Man Kincaid has his man beat in two different directions.

[JerseyBills]

1 hour ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

I love that they got White n Diggs battling all day apparently. Let's get 27 back to all pro form

33 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

 

It's finally here!

 

 

Damn Kincaid looking filthyyyyyy wow

Edited July 30, 2023 by JerseyBills

[The Wiz]

4 minutes ago, JerseyBills said:

I love that they got White n Diggs battling all day apparently. Let's get 27 back to all pro form

Damn Kincaid looking filthyyyyyy wow

The reports are Tre had a bad day but most DBs will against Diggs 1v1.  The fact that he was in good coverage (from reports) but Diggs just made grab after grab is good for both of them.

 

Kincaid.... yea.  He's looking like something special.

[Jerry Jabber]

50 minutes ago, Special K said:

 

I don’t know who Nathan Peterson is, but I bet that even  he would be a better option at QB than Nathan Peterman!😀

😂🤣 I corrected it, don’t know why I was thinking Peterson 😂

[eball]

1 hour ago, wppete said:

Love to hear that Cook is dominating out there. I think his rookie season was just a warm up. And love to see Poona and Settle in the middle making plays… we got some studs on that Dline.

I’ve been on the Cook bandwagon since before the end of last season when I predicted he would be the Bills’ primary back this year. I doubled down in the “players you expect to break out” thread earlier this spring. It’s going to be fun to watch. 
 

[17islongenough]

 

[PBF81]

4 hours ago, Turbo44 said:

Look at Burrows line until last year and Mahomes in his first 2-3 years, both lower end O-lines, bordering on horrible in CIN's case. Both of those teams have taking steps in the last year or two to bolster the lines as has Beane this year. For instance PFF:

2019 BUF 21st, KC 16th, CIN 30th

2020 BUF 10th, KC 11th, CIN 30th

2021  BUF 16th, KC 6th (they finally concentrated on it), CIN 30th

 

As stated, our "efforts" over his first five drafts after getting Allen include a revolving door of journeymen OL-men, a 2nd-round pick, and a late 3rd-round pick in five drafts. 

 

Cincy drafted a C in the mid-1st in '18, a Jonah Williams 11th overall in '19, and an OT in the 2nd in '21.  

 

KC, according to PFF, had the 16th final ranked OL in 2019 but had a bunch of injuries there;  the 4th final ranked OL in 2020, 5th in 2021, and 4th last season.  Here are the links.  13th in 2018 with two top Ts and a slew of injuries to the interior OL.  

 

I'm not sure how any of that compares to our starters, which have generally sucked and have never been above average if I"m not mistaken.  I didn't see us above-average there either.  Maybe I missed one, but I don't think so.  

 

Either way, that's what I just found.  

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-following-2019-regular-season

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-17

 

But the point was the effort made to even get them.  It's difficult to fault the methodology if they at least try.  We barely did that.  

 

 

[HappyDays]

 

[SCBills]

1 hour ago, eball said:

I’ve been on the Cook bandwagon since before the end of last season when I predicted he would be the Bills’ primary back this year. I doubled down in the “players you expect to break out” thread earlier this spring. It’s going to be fun to watch. 
 

If Cook can just be serviceable in pass pro, he’s going to be a problem. 
 

He already showed last year that he can run between the tackles. 
 

And we know he has the speed to get outside, while possessing wide receiver skills in the passing game. 
 

 

[Doc]

11 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

As stated, our "efforts" over his first five drafts after getting Allen include a revolving door of journeymen OL-men, a 2nd-round pick, and a late 3rd-round pick in five drafts. 

 

Cincy drafted a C in the mid-1st in '18, a Jonah Williams 11th overall in '19, and an OT in the 2nd in '21.  

 

KC, according to PFF, had the 16th final ranked OL in 2019 but had a bunch of injuries there;  the 4th final ranked OL in 2020, 5th in 2021, and 4th last season.  Here are the links.  13th in 2018 with two top Ts and a slew of injuries to the interior OL.  

 

I'm not sure how any of that compares to our starters, which have generally sucked and have never been above average if I"m not mistaken.  I didn't see us above-average there either.  Maybe I missed one, but I don't think so.  

 

Either way, that's what I just found.  

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-final-2021-offensive-line-rankings

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-offensive-line-rankings-following-2019-regular-season

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-2018-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-after-week-17

 

But the point was the effort made to even get them.  It's difficult to fault the methodology if they at least try.  We barely did that.  

 

 

 

Yeah but all those players suck.  Sure they addressed the OL but they blew the picks.

[Buffalo Boy]

3 hours ago, Special K said:

 

I don’t know who Nathan Peterson is, but I bet that even  he would be a better option at QB than Nathan Peterman!😀

“A rose by any other name still smells as sweet.”

🤔

[Buffalo Boy]

13 minutes ago, SCBills said:

If Cook can just be serviceable in pass pro, he’s going to be a problem. 
 

He already showed last year that he can run between the tackles. 
 

And we know he has the speed to get outside, while possessing wide receiver skills in the passing game. 
 

 

   Which is why it was infuriating they didn’t get him the ball more down the stretch. 
   He could have a breakout season from outta nowhere, not saying he will but he’s got Thurman hands to go along with running abilities. Been a while since we’ve had a back look this ( possibly) complete.

[PBF81]

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah but all those players suck.  Sure they addressed the OL but they blew the picks.

 

Perhaps, but I was referring to the methodology.  

 

They're no worse than the guys we never drafted.  

 

 

[The Wiz]

2 hours ago, 17islongenough said:

 

I watched that loop more times than I care to admit and it just kept getting funnier, every single time I saw it.

[chongli]

3 hours ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

Wait...was Josh really trying to tackle Poona after his pick??

 

[Doc]

22 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

Perhaps, but I was referring to the methodology.  

 

They're no worse than the guys we never drafted. 

 

Sure they are.  A wasted 1st round pick is terrible.

[The Wiz]

5 minutes ago, chongli said:

 

Wait...was Josh really trying to tackle Poona after his pick??

 

Josh chasing Poona

 

 

[PBF81]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

Sure they are.  A wasted 1st round pick is terrible.

 

I can't tell whether you're joking or not, but there's a context here related to the original post.  

 

Right now we're outside of it.  

 

I see that a lot, people commenting on the "last post," but ignoring the context that got it to that point.   I think that may be where we are on this.     

 

 

[Doc]

21 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

I can't tell whether you're joking or not, but there's a context here related to the original post.  

 

Right now we're outside of it.  

 

I see that a lot, people commenting on the "last post," but ignoring the context that got it to that point.   I think that may be where we are on this.    

 

The context addressing the OL, right?

[PBF81]

32 minutes ago, Doc said:

The context addressing the OL, right?

 

Not in and of itself, no.  

 

 

[PBF81]

41 minutes ago, Doc said:

The context addressing the OL, right?

 

It's also really not that important.  

 

 

[Beck Water]

9 hours ago, PBF81 said:

Allen was an incredibly anomalous risky pick that worked out.   I really don't think it appropriate to bring Beane up at this point in time in the season, but since you insist,

 

LOL this is rich.  You said, and I quote exactly, “Beane drafted Kincaid in a monkey-see-monkey-do attempt to replicate Kelce.   We haven't seen much originality in the team/roster-building strategies on this team.”

 

So you can slam Beane as using a “monkey see monkey do attempt to replicate Kelce” as a draft strategy (instead of, you know, having a team of scouts evaluate talent and building a draft board, then following it) and as lacking originality in team and roster building strategies.

 

But then when called on a shallow approach without substance behind it, you turn around and say “I really don’t think it appropriate to bring Beane up at this point in time in the season” - when that’s EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID, since we all know who is responsible for draft choices and for building the team.

 

SMH.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

10 hours ago, SCBills said:

Here’s my issue with this…

 

-We hear how we had to pay Oliver because we need a proven 3T in this defense.  
 

-We hear how we need pass rushers off the edge, because well - I agree - this is obvious. 
 

-We hear how important high level Safety play is for the defense. 
 

-We needed to invest in CB2 opposite Tre .. that was the prevailing worry pre-draft two years ago. 
 

-Now we hear how important MLB is to the defense…

 

Ok, we can’t have All-Pro’s at every position.   Not EVERY position is imperative to this defense.  
 

If so, why tf do we have a defensive minded HC in Sean McDermott?

 

 

You make some good points.

 

FWIW, McDermott took the team to playoffs his 1st year with Preston Brown at MLB and ….I’m trying to think who else, Ramon Humber? And Zo Alexander.

We weren’t a top-5 or top 6 defense.  Middle of the pack.  But our secondary and DL weren’t as good.

 

TBH I think one factor in Frazier “leave of absence” was that he was told we’re likely to lose Tremaine Edmunds, we can’t match what he’s gonna get, and we need to spend our high draft picks on offense.  So you’re gonna need to look at the guys already on the roster, maybe 3rd round or later rookie, and figure out how to make that work at MLB

 

Frazier concluded it wasn’t going to do his HC quest any good to drop from the #1 or #2 defense of the last two seasons back to 15 or 16, so he bowed out.

 

That’s just my thinking though, who knows?  Maybe the people who think it was a force out or a quiet firing are right and I’m wrong.

 

It’s certainly stand-and-deliver time for McDermott as a defensive HC

[Special K]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

“A rose by any other name still smells as sweet.”

🤔

 

Peterman's play smelled like something💩, but it definitely wasn't a rose!🙂

[PetermansRedemption]

Anyone know when/if inside training camp live on nfl network will be at Bills camp? Or have I already missed it?

[PBF81]

30 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

LOL this is rich.  You said, and I quote exactly, “Beane drafted Kincaid in a monkey-see-monkey-do attempt to replicate Kelce.   We haven't seen much originality in the team/roster-building strategies on this team.”

 

So you can slam Beane as using a “monkey see monkey do attempt to replicate Kelce” as a draft strategy (instead of, you know, having a team of scouts evaluate talent and building a draft board, then following it) and as lacking originality in team and roster building strategies.

 

But then when called on a shallow approach without substance behind it, you turn around and say “I really don’t think it appropriate to bring Beane up at this point in time in the season” - when that’s EXACTLY WHAT YOU DID, since we all know who is responsible for draft choices and for building the team.

 

SMH.

 

What are we, in 6th grade.  LOL  

 

Whatever.  You claimed that he's been original, when I asked you how, you threw it into my lap. 

 

It's not that important, really, it isn't.  

 

LOL  

 

 

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

What are we, in 6th grade.  LOL  

 

Whatever.  You claimed that he's been original, when I asked you how, you threw it into my lap. 

 

It's not that important, really, it isn't.  

 

LOL 

 

How do we know Dorsey isn't going to be original when we haven't seen the product on the field yet this season?

[PBF81]

14 minutes ago, Doc said:

How do we know Dorsey isn't going to be original when we haven't seen the product on the field yet this season?

 

I give up, how?  

 

The discussion wasn't about Dorsey.  

 

 

[Richard Noggin]

12 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

I don't really bet. As an academic and a poet, I don't have cash to play with. But if I did, I think I'd put some down on Spector as an interesting speculation at MLB.

 

I'm SO sorry about the bolded!

 

**I, too, used to rock the poor prof/creative practitioner combo pack. But I had to add high-end restaurant server to the mix. The serving gig got me pretty amazing access to the team for a lot of years, though. Then that whole pandemic thing happened and it all went away! Thanks for coming to my TEDtalk. 

 

Spector is an interesting speculation, indeed. Went back recently to look at his draft profile and RAS; was surprised I'd missed or forgotten what an athletic specimen he is: 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

13 hours ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

Just as long as he does not pull a muscle as did another player last year and he was not part of the play.

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

I give up, how?  

 

The discussion wasn't about Dorsey. 

 

By waiting to see it. 

 

And Beane would be listening to Dorsey to find out what he needs.  Hence the reason Dorsey needs to be the one who is original. 

[Punching Bag]

12 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I’ve been hard on Gabe after last year.  Oh my God if he can pick it up this year.

 

Each offseason Gabe works hard on some aspect of his game which he thinks is a weakness or something he can increase during offseason.

I am sure he did it this offseason but hope he choose right aspect.

[Punching Bag]

13 hours ago, FireChans said:

You are wrong. TBD is my playground.

 

You are wrong.  TBD is your sandbox where you are kicking other kids structures and leaving your dirty diapers in it.

[PBF81]

31 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

By waiting to see it. 

 

And Beane would be listening to Dorsey to find out what he needs.  Hence the reason Dorsey needs to be the one who is original. 

 

Again, to bad the discussion wasn't about Dorsey.  Why waste our time?  

 

 

[eball]

7 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

You make some good points.

 

FWIW, McDermott took the team to playoffs his 1st year with Preston Brown at MLB and ….I’m trying to think who else, Ramon Humber? And Zo Alexander.

We weren’t a top-5 or top 6 defense.  Middle of the pack.  But our secondary and DL weren’t as good.

 

TBH I think one factor in Frazier “leave of absence” was that he was told we’re likely to lose Tremaine Edmunds, we can’t match what he’s gonna get, and we need to spend our high draft picks on offense.  So you’re gonna need to look at the guys already on the roster, maybe 3rd round or later rookie, and figure out how to make that work at MLB

 

Frazier concluded it wasn’t going to do his HC quest any good to drop from the #1 or #2 defense of the last two seasons back to 15 or 16, so he bowed out.

 

That’s just my thinking though, who knows?  Maybe the people who think it was a force out or a quiet firing are right and I’m wrong.

 

It’s certainly stand-and-deliver time for McDermott as a defensive HC

If Frazier thought Edmunds was the key to having the #1 or 2 defense, it was definitely time for him to step away. 
 

This was the softest yet most obvious firing ever. 
 

[Beck Water]

14 hours ago, The Wiz said:

 

 

Who is that he's toasting in coverage?  Dean Marlowe?

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, eball said:

If Frazier thought Edmunds was the key to having the #1 or 2 defense, it was definitely time for him to step away. 
 

This was the softest yet most obvious firing ever. 
 

 

It may have been, it may not have been.  Both Beane and McDermott have said if he wanted to, he would be the DC this year.  They haven't said that about the other coordinators and position coaches who "sought opportunities elsewhere".

 

I'm certain Da Bears paid Tremaine Edmunds $50 million guaranteed on a 4 yr/$72M contract because 1) they agree with you 2) he had no other suitors.

 

Decisions, Decisions.  Who to believe, @eball and others on TBD?  Or Matt Eberflus, Ryan Poles, and others who make a living doing football stuff?  You got a super-cool avatar that I've loved for years, I'll give you that, but I'm gonna go with the football execs.

 

The post I was responding to pointed out all the talent we have on D and all the talented additions except at MLB, so I don't know about Edmunds as "THE key".  But an important part of that #1 or #2 defense, I don't think is arguable and last year was probably Edmunds best.

Edited July 31, 2023 by Beck Water

[eball]

2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It may have been, it may not have been.  Both Beane and McDermott have said if he wanted to, he would be the DC this year.  They haven't said that about the other coordinators and position coaches who "sought opportunities elsewhere".

 

I'm certain Da Bears paid Tremaine Edmunds $50 million guaranteed on a 4 yr/$72M contract because 1) they agree with you 2) he had no other suitors.

 

Decisions, Decisions.  Who to believe, @eball and others on TBD?  Or Matt Eberflus, Ryan Poles, and others who make a living doing football stuff?  You got a super-cool avatar that I've loved for years, I'll give you that, but I'm gonna go with the football execs.

 

The post I was responding to pointed out all the talent we have on D and all the talented additions except at MLB, so I don't know about Edmunds as "THE key".  But an important part of that #1 or #2 defense, I don't think is arguable and last year was probably Edmunds best.

Meh. I’ve been around the block and can differentiate between coach-speak and reality. McD and Beane would never disparage Frazier publicly. And yes, everyone is enamored with Edmunds’ abilities, but that doesn’t mean he’s “the” difference maker in today’s NFL. 

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

It may have been, it may not have been.  Both Beane and McDermott have said if he wanted to, he would be the DC this year.  They haven't said that about the other coordinators and position coaches who "sought opportunities elsewhere".

 

I'm certain Da Bears paid Tremaine Edmunds $50 million guaranteed on a 4 yr/$72M contract because 1) they agree with you 2) he had no other suitors.

 

Decisions, Decisions.  Who to believe, @eball and others on TBD?  Or Matt Eberflus, Ryan Poles, and others who make a living doing football stuff?  You got a super-cool avatar that I've loved for years, I'll give you that, but I'm gonna go with the football execs.

 

The post I was responding to pointed out all the talent we have on D and all the talented additions except at MLB, so I don't know about Edmunds as "THE key".  But an important part of that #1 or #2 defense, I don't think is arguable and last year was probably Edmunds best.

They said he would’ve been the DC-  

 

Did they say he would’ve been calling the defensive plays?  
 

In my unprofessional opinion-   he left because he was to be stripped of the play calling and that’s a demotion.  Why would anyone hire him as HC if he had the play calling stripped?  Why would he want to stay.  That’s embarrassing.  
 

I don’t think it had anything to do with 49.  

[without a drought]

Joel Wilson 6'4" 250

 

Jace Sternberger 6'4" 251

 

Dawson Knox 6'5" 254

 

Other Bills TEs, not much to see here.