Is Gabe Davis a trade candidate?

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Half of the players you listed are not outside WRs or even WRs at all. You don't even understand what Davis' role on the team is. Correct he is not Hill or Gronk or Kelce or Kittle. He is an outside WR. He is not the second option and he never will be. This offense you want him to be your 4th option after Diggs, slot, and Knox.  Davis is your chunk yardage guy not your high volume reception guy.  

 

"(Davis) is not the second option and he never will be"??

 

That's one of the most ignorant takes I've seen in a long time.

 

Davis was the second option in the Bills passing game just this last season........and it wasn't even a close contest.

 

Davis had almost 50% more targets(93) than the next two pass catchers(Knox and McKenzie with 65 each).

 

Also wrt to the "WR" designation........you'd have a point if TE's were graded on a curve as passing game targets........but they aren't.    "Passing game weapons"(PGW) isn't yet a distinction like some others.   That's like insisting Von Miller wasn't a DE prior to the term "edge" being used to lump in all DE/OLB whose primary role is to rush the passer.   It's semantics.   Travis Kelce is absolutely a WR1 level weapon.   He was 3rd in the league in receptions and 8th in receiving yards last season.   He puts up big numbers every year and is a top priority for defense's to stop.  

 

[Buffalo Junction]

26 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You might think that.    But your opinion is not supported in recent history.   

 

Chiefs (Juju...25th in NFL in receiving yards and very high catch rate....and Kelce)  vs Eagles (AJ Brown and Devonta Smith)

Rams (Kupp and Beckham) vs Bengals (Chase and Higgins)

Bucs (Evans and Godwin)  vs Chiefs (Hill and Kelce)

Chiefs(Hill and Kelce)  vs Niners (Kittle and Samuel)

Patriots (Edelman and Gronk) vs (Woods and Cooks)

Eagles (exception) vs Patriots (Gronk and Cooks)

 

Basically you gotta' go back 6 seasons to find one team that was the exception to having two WR1 talents and still reaching the Super Bowl.   It's become a necessity.   So the plan for the Bills has to be to develop that other guy(Kincaid hopefully) or be that increasingly rare exception.

 

Because there isn't a world where Gabe Davis is a comp to any of those players listed.    Only an illogical homer would imply that he is.   And to your alternative scenario.......some of those teams ALSO had an abundance of other good receivers as well......like the 2018 Patriots who first option kinda' studs but had 5 players over 700 yards receiving.

 

We’re not seeing eye to eye… I wasn’t including TEs in the “two WR 1” category, nor do I view some of those players (JuJu for example) as WR 1s. Adding a top TE into the equation as the #1 pass catching option along with a WR1 is a viable alternative to having two WR1’s which I listed as an example because of Gronk, Kelsey, Kittle, etc. It’s more about having 3+ players that can exploit defenses and game plans or 2 guys who can dominate along with a good rushing attack. We saw what happened to this offense without that third player (prime Beasley), so fingers crossed on Kincaid. 
 

I also don’t believe Davis is a comp to anyone on there. He’s much more like MVS on that Chiefs team, or to stick with another former packer; Lazard…. Firmly entrenched as a secondary option due to limitations. As a result, Diggs & Davis won’t be enough unless a third receiving option steps up big time or the running attack improves dramatically and becomes dominant. 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Junction said:

We’re not seeing eye to eye… I wasn’t including TEs in the “two WR 1” category, nor do I view some of those players (JuJu for example) as WR 1s. Adding a top TE into the equation as the #1 pass catching option along with a WR1 is a viable alternative to having two WR1’s which I listed as an example because of Gronk, Kelsey, Kittle, etc. It’s more about having 3+ players that can exploit defenses and game plans or 2 guys who can dominate along with a good rushing attack. We saw what happened to this offense without that third player (prime Beasley), so fingers crossed on Kincaid. 
 

I also don’t believe Davis is a comp to anyone on there. He’s much more like MVS on that Chiefs team, or to stick with another former packer; Lazard…. Firmly entrenched as a secondary option due to limitations. As a result, Diggs & Davis won’t be enough unless a third receiving option steps up big time or the running attack improves dramatically and becomes dominant. 

 

 

Doesn't matter if it's a great TE or slot receiver or a great X or Y receiver.  They can all be a WR1(until a better designation is created).   The point stands......it's been quite a while since anyone has even reached a SB without having 2 WR1 level receiving threats.

 

And you can choose not believe that Juju is a WR1 option but his bulk and catch% numbers say he was firmly within the top 32 receiving threats in the NFL last year.  Maybe even top 75% of first receiving options, statistically.   Now did the Chiefs get lucky that he stayed so healthy?   Sure.  But we aren't talking about a creation of Patrick Mahomes,  he was a 25 year old guy who has had a 110 catch 1400 yard season in his history.  

[Dopey]

3 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You said he's put up 50 catches, 900 yards, and 8 touchdowns.  He's never done that in his career.

I did not say that. Buffalo_Stampede wrote  “Davis is a WR2. He blocks and puts up 50-60catches 900 yards and 8 TDs. That’s a WR2.”

GoBills808B for wrote that Gabe has literally never done ANY of these things. To which I called BS. (Gabe blocks). 
Back to that reading comprehension thing you tried to be a smart butt about. Guess you weren’t drunk the first time you replied to me. You just have that reading comprehension issue you tried to pin on me. The word dyslexia comes to mind. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, Aussie Joe said:

I just want him to catch the freaking ball when it comes his way…

Could have put my foot through the TV last seconds of that Jets loss

 

Get no argument from me on that one. And it makes no sense because he has made some really difficult catches in his first three years.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

"(Davis) is not the second option and he never will be"??

 

That's one of the most ignorant takes I've seen in a long time.

 

Davis was the second option in the Bills passing game just this last season........and it wasn't even a close contest.

 

Davis had almost 50% more targets(93) than the next two pass catchers(Knox and McKenzie with 65 each).

 

Also wrt to the "WR" designation........you'd have a point if TE's were graded on a curve as passing game targets........but they aren't.    "Passing game weapons"(PGW) isn't yet a distinction like some others.   That's like insisting Von Miller wasn't a DE prior to the term "edge" being used to lump in all DE/OLB whose primary role is to rush the passer.   It's semantics.   Travis Kelce is absolutely a WR1 level weapon.   He was 3rd in the league in receptions and 8th in receiving yards last season.   He puts up big numbers every year and is a top priority for defense's to stop.  

 

He wasn't #2 when Beasley was playing slot. 

He got more chances last year becuase the slot WR situation was a disaster 

In this offense the slot WR should be getting more targets. And as you see on other teams, the TE has to be a bigger part of this offense. 

This year Davis targets will go down but his YPC and TDs will be the same. 

 

 

[DCofNC]

10 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I don't entirely agree that Davis isn't "a number 2 WR at all".  I think Davis isn't a number 2 only when compared with the #2 on teams that have 2 #1 WR - Bengals, Eagles, Miami. 

 

But with the bolded part, I agree completely.

Ok, we can agree on this, he’s not the #2 you want.  I think he’s a pretty good #3, but a below average #2.  He has flashes / spurts of great play, which make his numbers look like a #2 at the end of the year.  End of the day, the position needs to be upgraded.

[Dan in Owego]

You know i have been trying to find a comp for Gabe, i think Chris Burkett, am i far off?

[NoSaint]

21 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

I don't think we trade him, but recent events make me wonder. By all reports sounds like Sherfield and Harty are flashing in camp. With Kincaid and Knox we're going to run more 12 personnel than at any point during the Allen era, making WRs more expendable.

 

And then we sign a recent 2nd round WR in Andy Isabella. I realize he's been a bust thus far, but why would Beane bother bringing him in if he thought our WR corps was set?

 

And that's where the guesswork comes into play...

 

I'm sure most view it as Shakir insurance based on his reportedly poor start to camp. I think that'd be financially kinda silly considering Shakir showed some potential in actual NFL games and he's one of only 2 or 3 (if Shorter makes the team) WRs still under contract after 2023.

 

Gabe Davis will get a contract next season likely (as of this moment at least) in the $10-$15 million range, and I think that's actually below (maybe well below) what he'll actually get. We all know Buffalo’s CAP situation and what we're already gonna be paying Diggs since there's no out on his contract for 3 or 4 years. 

 

$40+ million (conservatively) a year to 2 WRs?

 

And then there's this from the first few TC practices from Joe B's day 3 report at The Athletic:

 

Davis targeted minimally the last two practices

Following the Bills’ second day of practice, starting receiver Gabe Davis was quite candid about some of his physical and mental struggles during the 2022 season, stemming from an early-year high ankle sprain that wound up defining his output. He didn’t take the leap many were hoping for, but he remains very well thought of throughout the building. There’s no doubt Davis looks a lot smoother and more explosive on his routes than from when he was injured, but it hasn’t translated to much production through the early portion of camp. Of those 37 Allen pass attempts over the last two practices, Davis was only targeted in team drills twice. Both targets occurred on Friday, and to Davis’ credit, he brought in both for a shorter reception. Over the same span, Diggs (10), Trent Sherfield (6), Knox (5) and Kincaid (3) were all targeted more often by Allen. It could just be the start of camp and a feeling out process with Allen and Davis, or perhaps it’s a continuation of the lower target share Davis accrued during 2022. Either way, all eyes will be on the now-healthy Davis in a contract year.

 

I know this... we already have a lot of draft capital next year and Beane loves trading up. What do you think Gabe fetches? A 3rd? A 4th? I think we could at least get a 4th for him, which is where he was drafted. 

 

Then Big Baller Beane uses all those draft picks to get our next #1 in waiting in next year's draft...

 

Marvin Harrison Jr. anyone????

hate this take for a variety of reasons. 
 

terrible return on the asset in your suggestion

 

the fact that you think harty flashing in non contact is meaningful

 

just bad all around

 

 

[NoSaint]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

He wasn't #2 when Beasley was playing slot. 

He got more chances last year becuase the slot WR situation was a disaster 

In this offense the slot WR should be getting more targets. And as you see on other teams, the TE has to be a bigger part of this offense. 

This year Davis targets will go down but his YPC and TDs will be the same. 

 

 

honestly with a healthy Davis and healthy Josh I would find it hard to believe his targets drop in a substantial way this year

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Epically bad thread. Congrats 

throwing in the Isabella signing makes him look particularly oblivious to reality

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

He wasn't #2 when Beasley was playing slot. 

He got more chances last year becuase the slot WR situation was a disaster 

In this offense the slot WR should be getting more targets. And as you see on other teams, the TE has to be a bigger part of this offense. 

This year Davis targets will go down but his YPC and TDs will be the same. 

 

 

 

Well you were clearly dead wrong(and a d!ck about it) that Davis was never the Bills second option.  

 

So own it.

 

I guess you missed 2022.........which started with Gabriel Davis having a huge playoff game and the Bills organization deciding that he was then ready to become their WR2 without splitting snaps with an Emmanuel Sanders or John Brown like in 2020-2021.    I mean, you can't be clueless enough to think that they expected Lil' Dummy McKenzie or $2M flyer signing Jamison Crowder to be their second option, right?    

 

They also had a plan to run a lot more 12 personnel coming into camp in 2022........which face planted even harder than the Dummy/Crowder combo when OJ Howard proved to be washed.   They thought they were going to get 100-130 targets out of Gabe and weren't going to need a high volume slot receiver.  

 

And sure the slot receiver had been their second most targeted position in 2021 but it wasn't by a huge 40%-50% disparity like from Davis to Knox/McKenzie in 2022.    Davis and Emmanuel Sanders mostly split 133 targets in 2021(with some of those targets being Sanders in the slot).   Beasley as the primary slot totaled 112 targets.   

[Doc Brown]

3 hours ago, Dopey said:

I did not say that. Buffalo_Stampede wrote  “Davis is a WR2. He blocks and puts up 50-60catches 900 yards and 8 TDs. That’s a WR2.”

GoBills808B for wrote that Gabe has literally never done ANY of these things. To which I called BS. (Gabe blocks). 
Back to that reading comprehension thing you tried to be a smart butt about. Guess you weren’t drunk the first time you replied to me. You just have that reading comprehension issue you tried to pin on me. The word dyslexia comes to mind. 

My mistake.  One of the four things you claimed was correct.  He is capable of blocking.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, NoSaint said:

hate this take for a variety of reasons. 
 

terrible return on the asset in your suggestion

 

the fact that you think harty flashing in non contact is meaningful

 

just bad all around

 

 

 

Harty wasn't a flier for Beane. He's guaranteed,making this team as a contributing WR and we didn't give him a $10m contract to be a returner.

[transplantbillsfan]

10 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea. This is a dumb ass take. Really bad.

 

6 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Epically bad thread. Congrats 

 

You seem like a sad, angry person.

 

Maybe you're resentful of something in your life, but to make these 2 completely empty, meaningless posts on the same page of the same thread within just a few hours of each other really isn't a good look.

 

 

 

 

 

Now... it's Saturday night. If you're drunk, it's understandable 

[Chandler#81]

The Bills are looked at cynically as a team with weak WRs sans Diggs. If EVER there’s a time for Gabe to step up and take the damn bull by the horns, it’s NOW!

[Buffalo_Stampede]

18 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah the problem with @Buffalo_Stampede quote is that Gabe Davis is clearly not the "perfect" WR2.   He's certainly not the ideal and at this point everyone should know that.  I can only assume he was just careless with his words because he takes offense to the deserved criticism.

 

There is nothing "perfect" about being second in the league in total drops and 185th in catch % when you are getting close to 100 targets.   Too much inefficiency.   That inconsistency from Davis.........combined with that of lesser ball droppers like McKenzie/Shakir/Knox playing one slot ahead of where they should in the pecking order........helped allow teams to roll extra attention to Diggs in the second half of last season,  which made the offense look chaotic at times.   Far from ideal.

 

The Bills haven't really had a top 10 WR2 since early in the 2020 season before John Brown got hurt.   The Bills passing game looked considerably different then.   Far too much off-script offense in the mix now.  Even just the threat of a screen to the otherwise-bomb-threat Smoke(which produced a handful of huge, game changing plays) had an impact that the offense has lacked ever since.   An ideal WR2 is either great at one thing or able to beat you in numerous ways and be both high production and efficient.  Like a WR1.   This is the way the league is now and there has been an influx of WR talent in the last 5 years like we've never seen before so it's not far fetched to have 2 WR1's.   

 

 

 

For me the perfect compliment to a WR1 is someone that stretches the field and scores TDs. WR2’s tend to have flaws. When I say WR2 I’m speaking more about outside WR. Technically a WR2 can be a TE or slot WR also if we’re talking target shares. So sometimes I get those mixed up. We’re not use to saying X Y Z F and so on.

 

Maybe we’re in an era where teams have multiple WR1’s. Multiple $20 million dollar receivers. I think it’s possible. Especially since the league is phasing out high paid RBs.

Kincaid could be 2nd in targets when he hits his prime. Wouldn’t he be considered WR2 in that case? Or are we strictly talking X and Z WR’s? Diggs can play every WR position. I want a WR opposite him being a field stretcher. Gabe Davis can do that. So that’s why I call him the perfect WR opposite Diggs. I don’t know if he’ll always be 2nd on the team in targets. He could easily be 3rd as early as this season depending on Kincaid.

 

 

 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Harty wasn't a flier for Beane. He's guaranteed,making this team as a contributing WR and we didn't give him a $10m contract to be a returner.

I didn’t begin to imply he’s a flyer but at $5m per year he’s not paid as a WR2 either. He’s a relatively cheap and explosive question mark that could make some impact plays. He’s not a WR2.
 

you’re digging the hole deeper with comments like this

Edited July 30, 2023 by NoSaint

[hondo in seattle]

As others have pointed out, some of the very best offenses have two elite receiving threats.  Back in the Bills Super Bowl era, we did as well.  Not now.  

 

Today, we have a solid group of wideouts but only one is a star.  Dorsey has enough horsepower to make this go but, ideally, there'd be a 1B in the mix and there isn't.  Unless Gabe's ankle was truly a significant problem last year and he reaches new heights this season.  And since that's our only affordable hope for a 1B, that's what we gotta run with this year.  My fingers are crossed.  

 

But I'm going to commit heresy here:  Maybe Von Miller was a mistake.  I love the man, but we dropped a lot of loose change for an aging DE.  You have to consider the opportunity cost.  Maybe if we hadn't signed Von, we'd have been able to sign a 1B WR and build up our offensive line.  

[eball]

Nice article on Gabe in the Buff News this morning.  Guys like @ScottLaw will scoff but there are reasons why Davis was not stellar last year, and I think anyone who sleeps on him this year is in for a surprise.

 

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 

For me the perfect compliment to a WR1 is someone that stretches the field and scores TDs. WR2’s tend to have flaws. When I say WR2 I’m speaking more about outside WR. Technically a WR2 can be a TE or slot WR also if we’re talking target shares. So sometimes I get those mixed up. We’re not use to saying X Y Z F and so on.

 

Maybe we’re in an era where teams have multiple WR1’s. Multiple $20 million dollar receivers. I think it’s possible. Especially since the league is phasing out high paid RBs.

Kincaid could be 2nd in targets when he hits his prime. Wouldn’t he be considered WR2 in that case? Or are we strictly talking X and Z WR’s? Diggs can play every WR position. I want a WR opposite him being a field stretcher. Gabe Davis can do that. So that’s why I call him the perfect WR opposite Diggs. I don’t know if he’ll always be 2nd on the team in targets. He could easily be 3rd as early as this season depending on Kincaid.

 

 

 

he’s caught deep balls but is he a field stretcher? He’s not a particularly fast guy. 

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

he’s caught deep balls but is he a field stretcher? He’s not a particularly fast guy. 

I think Gabe more qualifies as a deep threat. It’s honestly the only thing he is really good at compared to his contemporaries. Field stretcher makes me think of guys like Goodwin/Hill, one play TD’s. 

 

The biggest problem with Gabe is that his route tree in year 3 is not too different from his route tree in year 1. And for a guy with his size, he isn’t nearly able to use it as much as you would like.

 

but that’s why he was a fourth round pick. He’s outplayed his draft slot, but I think the folks waiting for his elite breakthrough are gonna be disappointed. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

9 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

he’s caught deep balls but is he a field stretcher? He’s not a particularly fast guy. 

He has an ability to get behind the defense. 
 

I don’t think he scares teams but he definitely is productive in that role. Now the question is if we had someone like DeSean Jackson in their prime what his numbers look like with Josh Allen? Maybe Gabe’s numbers are what they are because of Josh Allen. But he does produce down field.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[eball]

2 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He’s been the same guy for three years… my guess is we get the same guy in year 4…. expecting anything different doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. 

 

Yes, you are infamous for your “no player has the ability to develop or grow” takes — which are almost always proven wrong.

 

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

He’s been the same guy for three years… my guess is we get the same guy in year 4…. expecting anything different doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. 

the hope has to be health

 

he moved like a cruise ship last year. Hopefully he gets a little more nimble.

4 minutes ago, eball said:

 

Yes, you are infamous for your “no player has the ability to develop or grow” takes — which are almost always proven wrong.

 

to be fair, there’s a hell of a lot more guys that don’t dramatically improve after 3 seasons 

 

usually you are in the ballpark of who they are, unless they simply were stuck behind someone for reps 

[eball]

6 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

the hope has to be health

 

he moved like a cruise ship last year. Hopefully he gets a little more nimble.

to be fair, there’s a hell of a lot more guys that don’t dramatically improve after 3 seasons 

 

usually you are in the ballpark of who they are, unless they simply were stuck behind someone for reps 

 

If he shows the improvement this year that we expected last year, he’ll be as good a #2 WR as there is.

 

[NoSaint]

Just now, eball said:

 

If he shows the improvement this year that we expected last year, he’ll be as good a #2 WR as there is.

 

Sure, but expected is a loaded word. We can hope for anything, and our expectations don’t have to be based on any foundation 

 

Im hoping he’s healthy and steps up but until he shows the big jump we are just hoping. 

[eball]

Just now, NoSaint said:

Sure, but expected is a loaded word. We can hope for anything, and our expectations don’t have to be based on any foundation 

 

Im hoping he’s healthy and steps up but until he shows the big jump we are just hoping. 

 

Yes, we are hoping — with at least some logical basis behind that hope.  I haven’t forgotten Gabe’s playoffs in 2021.

 

[FireChans]

3 minutes ago, eball said:

 

If he shows the improvement this year that we expected last year, he’ll be as good a #2 WR as there is.

 

Hey man I’m hoping for it too, but this is a very funny post. 
 

“if he just does the thing he was supposed to do last year and failed at, we’ll be good.”

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

he’s caught deep balls but is he a field stretcher? He’s not a particularly fast guy. 

 

I think he plays faster than you would think based on his 40 time but he isn't a speedster. He also runs the post, and the go route really well so in that sense yes he is a field stretcher. 

[SCBills]

19 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

the hope has to be health

 

he moved like a cruise ship last year. Hopefully he gets a little more nimble.

to be fair, there’s a hell of a lot more guys that don’t dramatically improve after 3 seasons 

 

usually you are in the ballpark of who they are, unless they simply were stuck behind someone for reps 

I think the hope with a Gabe Davis Year 4 jump is due to the flashes he’s shown, mixed in with the fact he’s dealt with injuries quite a bit.  
 

The downside.. those injuries aren’t exactly one-offs.. he’s dealt with them since college. 
 

Reports from camp are he looks quicker and faster.. I will say that a healthy quicker faster Gabe Davis, with a legit option in the middle of the field in Knox/Kincaid, is likely in for a big season.   Just depends if he can stay healthy. 
 

 

Edited July 30, 2023 by SCBills

[FireChans]

17 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I think the hope with a Gabe Davis Year 4 jump is due to the flashes he’s shown, mixed in with the fact he’s dealt with injuries quite a bit.  
 

The downside.. those injuries aren’t exactly one-offs.. he’s dealt with them since college. 
 

Reports from camp are he looks quicker and faster.. I will say that a healthy quicker faster Gabe Davis, with a legit option in the middle of the field in Knox/Kincaid, is likely in for a big season.   Just depends if he can stay healthy. 
 

 

If Davis is our legit WR2, he should be pulling coverage off our other guys, not the other way around.

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 

For me the perfect compliment to a WR1 is someone that stretches the field and scores TDs. WR2’s tend to have flaws. When I say WR2 I’m speaking more about outside WR. Technically a WR2 can be a TE or slot WR also if we’re talking target shares. So sometimes I get those mixed up. We’re not use to saying X Y Z F and so on.

 

Maybe we’re in an era where teams have multiple WR1’s. Multiple $20 million dollar receivers. I think it’s possible. Especially since the league is phasing out high paid RBs.

Kincaid could be 2nd in targets when he hits his prime. Wouldn’t he be considered WR2 in that case? Or are we strictly talking X and Z WR’s? Diggs can play every WR position. I want a WR opposite him being a field stretcher. Gabe Davis can do that. So that’s why I call him the perfect WR opposite Diggs. I don’t know if he’ll always be 2nd on the team in targets. He could easily be 3rd as early as this season depending on Kincaid.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah we are in a new era.  The idea about WR2 being another boundary option who stretches the field WAS the way it used to be........but not any longer if you reasonably expect to reach a SB.

 

Back when individual RB's were integral components of SB winning offense your WR2 could just run a few routes and have significant flaws.  Like the 1990's SB teams.  That's the Reed/(aging)Lofton or Michael Irvin/Alvin Harper dynamic.

 

Gabe Davis would have been a fine complementary WR2 back in the day.   Gabe is very Alvin Harper-esque.  

 

But now teams don't need that stud RB1........in fact a stud RB is almost a detriment in post season football because it makes the OC feel like they gotta' give that guy touches even when they aren't producing.   See the Saints blowing #1 seeds trying to feed Kamara in the playoffs.   The statistical evidence is overwhelming that you don't want one if you are making a SB run.

 

The emphasis for that 3rd "triplet" like the Kelly/Thomas/Reed combination is now a player at the LOS in the passing game........so not a RB.

 

Supply of WR1 talent has increased notably in the past 5 years as elite young athletes began moving to WR and CB in the past 10 years(post 2010 offensive rules changes).  

 

Now teams CAN have two boundary WR1's or a combination of an elite TE and studs at any of the WR positions that yield two legit #1 options in the passing game.   Cooper Kupp had his record setting year mostly from the slot.  

 

I do think they need Kincaid to become their WR2 option ASAP.   And that's a big ask, so I have my reservations that he can do that in year 1 just like most people do.

 

And just like last year,  stories are coming out about how Gabe is NOW ready to step up his game to WR1 level.  But he's really been the same guy since he came into the league and I don't think hard work is necessarily going to change that.    So I'll believe it when I see it.   3 seasons of foot problems = foot problems is part of his identity, IMO.  He can improve his terrible catch mechanics but then we still don't know if his hands will be consistent.   Just too many moving parts.....or parts that don't move well enough......to expect him to become a WR1 level target.

[Kirby Jackson]

Worse idea:

1) Trade Gabe Davis in training camp

2) Trade Mario Williams for John Skelton

[Manther]

On 7/29/2023 at 12:03 AM, Richard Noggin said:

Love the topic, but don't love the OP suggesting even a SHRED of connection to the signing of Andy Isabella. I know it was a measured mention, but I hope that isn't the thing that pushed this to the forefront of your mind.

 

I REALLY hope they don't re-sign Gabe unless it's to a VERY team friendly deal (like $10M/per). And if they aren't going to re-sign him, then it makes sense to recoup whatever assets they can (I'd think a 3rd is possible and presents some value). 

 

His chemistry with Allen, minus one incredible playoff game (which we lost), has been inconsistent and fraught with nagging injuries and DREADFUL catching fundamentals. Matt Parrino shared (on fb) a pic from this week where Gabe is still doing that awful outstretched hands, reaching thing. He's gotten flack for "clapping" at the ball, and I'm not sure if that's the same or not as what plagued him last year. He's like pointing his hands AT the ball. It's a mess. 

Agreed, the topic is interesting.  Isabella should have nothing to do with the topic specifically.  However, Isabella is in camp as are many WR's and if many of them are similar or close to Gabe we could look to trade him before the season.

 

My thoughts on Gabe in no particular order...

 

- he is a good 2/3 WR

- if we signed him before the season for $10 million I think it would be a good deal

- I don't think he will sign for $10 million a season

- the most I would want Gabe for is $12 million

- Gabe will probably get $15 million next year, more if he has a better year than last year and he should

- if we were high on many of our WRs similar to Gabe I would consider trading him

- I would NOT trade him for a 4th

- I would prefer to have him for the season than a 4th

- probably get a higher comp. pick than a 4th, but, the following year

- trade him for a 3rd, possibly

- we are looking to win the Super Bowl, I prefer to keep Gabe

- Gabe could ball out in a contract year and there are many injuries over the season

 

Go Bills!

[SCBills]

2 minutes ago, Manther said:

Agreed, the topic is interesting.  Isabella should have nothing to do with the topic specifically.  However, Isabella is in camp as are many WR's and if many of them are similar or close to Gabe we could look to trade him before the season.

 

My thoughts on Gabe in no particular order...

 

- he is a good 2/3 WR

- if we signed him before the season for $10 million I think it would be a good deal

- I don't think he will sign for $10 million a season

- the most I would want Gabe for is $12 million

- Gabe will probably get $15 million next year, more if he has a better year than last year and he should

- if we were high on many of our WRs similar to Gabe I would consider trading him

- I would NOT trade him for a 4th

- I would prefer to have him for the season than a 4th

- probably get a higher comp. pick than a 4th, but, the following year

- trade him for a 3rd, possibly

- we are looking to win the Super Bowl, I prefer to keep Gabe

- Gabe could ball out in a contract year and there are many injuries over the season

 

Go Bills!

Agree on a lot of this, but im not trading Gabe unless someone blows us away with an offer. 
 

Even then, we have a Super Bowl roster and I’m not sure what trade package could be more impactful than Davis playing on a contract year and us getting a RD3 comp pick if he balls out and leaves in FA. 

[iinii]

For the right price he would be dealt in a nanosecond 

[Motorin']

On 7/29/2023 at 10:18 AM, Beck Water said:

 

Beasley.  Hmmmm......I think you're onto something.  I'll reiterate here the argument I've made in more detail in the Spring/Summer.  What was missing from the Bills offense last season, especially towards the end of last season, were the quick short to intermediate throws.  The blitz and pressure beaters. 

 

Now there are multiple possible reasons for this:

-Dorsey play design/calling

-Josh UCL injury changing throwing motion that returned him to his college/rookie/2019 struggles with accuracy there

-early success at the "long bomb" combined with changes at coaching getting to Josh's head and failing to curb his aggressive, "Brett Favre says touchdowns first" mentality

 

But the really screaming and obvious one is: lack of the reliable, trusted, "always open" slot target that Beasley presented in 2019-2021.  Once Crowder was injured, it was pretty clear that Josh simply didn't trust McKenzie or Shakir the same way (or Hines, for that matter).

 

I think if we successfully rebuild that short/intermediate target rappore with Kincaid and a combination of Harty, Sherfield, and Shakir, then Davis will magically look better.

 

 

It's not entirely "on Gabe" to improve. 

 

Davis was 2nd in the league in Y/R.  He was a deep target for Josh last year.  He saw a lot of overthrows, a lot of throws forced into tight coverage, a lot of late throws that were a bit off-target because Josh was scrambling around extending the play.

 

Did Davis have his struggles with drops, and his struggles with route running, Yes. 

 

But improved use of the short/intermediate passing game and more selective targeting of Davis would immediately improve his catch % with no action on Davis' part.

 

 

Exactly.  In addition, Harty looked brilliant his one good year, but it was...one good year.  Sherfield looked solid last year but it was behind Waddle and Hill.  We have high hopes, but not so high that it would be wise to stake the season on them.

 

I think Davis has to improve his short route running to make strides in that area, and also have fewer drops overall. Modest improvements in both of those areas will do the trick and get him where he needs to be. 

 

And I don't necessarily attribute his lower catch % last year to more targets. I think it had more to do with being covered by the #1 cb frequently while they doubled Diggs. 

 

 

 

 

[stinky finger]

1 hour ago, iinii said:

For the right price he would be dealt in a nanosecond 

Ok - and that price is what exactly?

[HappyDays]

2 hours ago, eball said:

Nice article on Gabe in the Buff News this morning.  Guys like @ScottLaw will scoff but there are reasons why Davis was not stellar last year, and I think anyone who sleeps on him this year is in for a surprise.

 

 

I'm not sleeping on him but I think very best case scenario for Davis this year is that he gets back to the player he was as a rookie - a mostly deep threat who takes advantage of gaps in the defense caused by other pass catchers getting more attention. Still a low efficiency receiver but with enough big plays in a complementary offensive role that you can forgive the efficiency. If anyone expects his catch percentage to suddenly leap into the mid-60s and for Davis to suddenly become an above average separator, that is not realistic IMO.

 

There aren't any excuses for his performance last year. He has been the same player every year, just with variations in how much target share he has received.

 

Every day that Kincaid shines in camp it becomes more realistic that Davis will have his target share substantially reduced. Rookies making a big impact in a championship caliber offense is rare, but if Kincaid can be the exception I will not be concerned about Davis's role any more. However Kincaid would need to approach Beasley's 2020 season (76.6% catch percentage, 82 receptions, 967 yards) for him to be a truly ideal #2 target, and there's a long way to go for him to prove himself that capable. I am about as optimstic as I could be in July though.