Training camp 7/27 9:45 AM

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

 

 

The pre-snap motion with Knox/Kincaid shifting to empty backfield to draw with Knox is interesting. All this certainly shows that Dorsey is clearly trying to be more creative and testing out new ideas.

 

That's great to see

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, Process said:

Where is Kincaid getting drafted in fantasy? I'm assuming late or undrafted. Could be a league winner if he ends up basically playing WR and having a big role. 

This will change when real leagues start drafting.  He was a first rd pick in most dynasty league

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

No Astro notes for today?  😥

No- he didn’t have tix the last i had heard

[Beck Water]

Thing is he hurt his ankle in 2021 as well

Hope he can keep them both healthy this season.

 

I have been told that catching the ball starts with your feet.  I don't understand that, but, it was said by someone who knows his ball so....

 

 

 

Cover1 bringing it

 

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

 

Is this new, or did we see a lot of screen work last preseason only to have screens vanish under the shifting sands of the regular season?

[BananaB]

1 hour ago, Mark Vader said:

Elam is also only in his second year, some players take longer to adjust, even first round picks, it happens.

We say that about all our draft picks. 😂 

[nucci]

31 minutes ago, Process said:

Where is Kincaid getting drafted in fantasy? I'm assuming late or undrafted. Could be a league winner if he ends up basically playing WR and having a big role. 

We use auction draft. I'll let you know how much

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Is this new, or did we see a lot of screen work last preseason only to have screens vanish under the shifting sands of the regular season?

this “screen work” is going to die in training camp, like it does every year. 

[stevewin]

3 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Have heard Harty has a good release package

That's what she said

[whorlnut]

46 minutes ago, NewEra said:

For a player that hasn’t played poorly, your anti elam agenda is stale.

 

We get it-  you didn’t want him.  Cool

It’s perfectly fine to question the fit. But I can see you haven’t changed calling people out. I’m sure you like every player, right?

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, whorlnut said:

It’s perfectly fine to question the fit. But I can see you haven’t changed calling people out. I’m sure you like every player, right?

I’m not a hater, I just crush a lot

[Patrick Duffy]

18 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Thing is he hurt his ankle in 2021 as well

Hope he can keep them both healthy this season.

 

I have been told that catching the ball starts with your feet.  I don't understand that, but, it was said by someone who knows his ball so....

 

I actually recall seeing a poster say that on here a while back. Don't remember who it was and don't know if you heard it from on here or not, but I saw that too.

 

I'm sure it does factor in some degree, not sure how much

3 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’m not a hater, I just crush a lot

 

Ah, you went with the clean radio version lol

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

I actually recall seeing a poster say that on here a while back. Don't remember who it was and don't know if you heard it from on here or not, but I saw that too.

 

I'm sure it does factor in some degree, not sure how much

 

Ah, you went with the clean radio version lol

yeah- it’s pretty much my motto in life-  such a great line

[whorlnut]

4 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I’m not a hater, I just crush a lot

I’m pretty sure if Elam develops and becomes a starter, you won’t hear me complain about it. The fact is that he’s getting scraps for some reason and it doesn’t make sense. It’s fair to be critical sometimes when things like this pop up. We need to be hitting on our top picks and haven’t been doing a great job of it lately. However, it looks like we might have something in Kincaid and hopefully Torrence is the real deal. Looks like cook might be something too. We will see with Elam. 

[34-78-83]

Just now, whorlnut said:

I’m pretty sure if Elam develops and becomes a starter, you won’t hear me complain about it. The fact is that he’s getting scraps for some reason and it doesn’t make sense. It’s fair to be critical sometimes when things like this pop up. We need to be hitting on our top picks and haven’t been doing a great job of it lately. However, it looks like we might have something in Kincaid and hopefully Torrence is the real deal. Looks like cook might be something too. We will see with Elam. 

Make that type of conclusion at the end of camp if he is still the #3 or #4 cb then AND if Jackson/Benford aren't playing great. I think that's what people are getting at. Judge not on day 2 of camp with no pads.

[boyst]

so the more i sit here and think about how Dorsey likes two tight ends...

...and the more how Dorsey is getting tricky with formations...

...and how we struggle to establish dominance on the LOS during the run...

 

...why don't we work the wing-t formation?

Knox (or other OT), Doyle @ TE, Gilliam @ FB, Harris and Cook @ HB?

sure we take Diggs off of the field, our best player but that's a powerful entity.

 

my point is that i think we could find value in sticking to the simple run schemes used by peewee teams for an advantage when we need it - power running.

 

the power i formation, for example.

Doyle at Y, Diggs at X, Gilliam or Harris @ FB, Cook @ TB, Harty or someone quick at WB.

 

These formations put Josh on the OL where teams must respect his quickness on the sneak, but also respect his drop back with options to be downfield targets or the quick option reads he can make to hand or dump off to anyone.

[mrags]

2 hours ago, BananaB said:

Sounds like our WRs picking up where they left off last season

That and the equipment manager from the Bengals playoff game still has his job. Apparently. 

[NewEra]

Just now, whorlnut said:

I’m pretty sure if Elam develops and becomes a starter, you won’t hear me complain about it. The fact is that he’s getting scraps for some reason and it doesn’t make sense. It’s fair to be critical sometimes when things like this pop up. We need to be hitting on our top picks and haven’t been doing a great job of it lately. However, it looks like we might have something in Kincaid and hopefully Torrence is the real deal. Looks like cook might be something too. We will see with Elam. 

You have no clue how much sense it makes.   Sit in meetings. Go to practice. Actually have a clue what’s going on in the facility.  All you know is “1st rd pick”.  That’s not enough.  
 

yes, we need to be hitting on our picks.  But putting elam out there with the starters because of that fact isn’t the way.  
 

I agree about Kincaid and Cook. Imo,  Kincaid is a sure thing if healthy.  He moves different.  He catches different.  I think cook will be our starter for the next 3 season and top 12 back, maybe higher. Torrance looks like a future stalwart for us based on his college tape, but I don’t know enough about OL.  

[TheyCallMeAndy]

47 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Thing is he hurt his ankle in 2021 as well

Hope he can keep them both healthy this season.

 

I have been told that catching the ball starts with your feet.  I don't understand that, but, it was said by someone who knows his ball so....

 

 

 

Cover1 bringing it

 

 

I did read last year that Gabe was 220+.
 

Nice to see the training staff take feedback and adjust things. Healthy, confident Gabe is a dangerous one. 

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

He’s been a JAG the entirety of his career… why all of a sudden will that change now? 
 

All good though. People fall for this stuff every May/June/July/August and reality hits in September.

No, more correctly put, some “people”  chronically over react to other peoples enthusiastic descriptions of a given players potential, happens every preseason like clockwork…, 

[whorlnut]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You have no clue how much sense it makes.   Sit in meetings. Go to practice. Actually have a clue what’s going on in the facility.  All you know is “1st rd pick”.  That’s not enough.  
 

yes, we need to be hitting on our picks.  But putting elam out there with the starters because of that fact isn’t the way.  
 

I agree about Kincaid and Cook. Imo,  Kincaid is a sure thing if healthy.  He moves different.  He catches different.  I think cook will be our starter for the next 3 season and top 12 back, maybe higher. Torrance looks like a future stalwart for us based on his college tape, but I don’t know enough about OL.  

I’m not advocating for just putting him out there due to draft status. The best player should play. If it turns out that we hit on Benford and Elam is depth, is anyone gonna be overly upset?  If Benford becomes a solid CB2 then I’ll be happy. As long as that happens with one of them at least. 

[BananaB]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You have no clue how much sense it makes.   Sit in meetings. Go to practice. Actually have a clue what’s going on in the facility.  All you know is “1st rd pick”.  That’s not enough.  
 

yes, we need to be hitting on our picks.  But putting elam out there with the starters because of that fact isn’t the way.  
 

I agree about Kincaid and Cook. Imo,  Kincaid is a sure thing if healthy.  He moves different.  He catches different.  I think cook will be our starter for the next 3 season and top 12 back, maybe higher. Torrance looks like a future stalwart for us based on his college tape, but I don’t know enough about OL.  

Sending Dane out when he was absolutely abused at the position last year isn’t the way. We know what we got with this guy on Sundays and it isn’t close to good enough. It’s easier to learn through reps then in a classroom 

[whorlnut]

14 minutes ago, 34-78-83 said:

Make that type of conclusion at the end of camp if he is still the #3 or #4 cb then AND if Jackson/Benford aren't playing great. I think that's what people are getting at. Judge not on day 2 of camp with no pads.

Well plenty of fans and media members are getting a little concerned about what might be going on, so I think it’s fair. Hopefully the light bulb goes on and we don’t have to talk about this in a few weeks. 

[NewEra]

1 minute ago, BananaB said:

Sending Dane out when he was absolutely abused at the position last year isn’t the way. We know what we got with this guy on Sundays and it isn’t close to good enough. It’s easier to learn through reps then in a classroom 

Sending him out on day one of training camp isn’t the way?  Ok man. Do you 

[Patrick Duffy]

12 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

I’m pretty sure if Elam develops and becomes a starter, you won’t hear me complain about it. The fact is that he’s getting scraps for some reason and it doesn’t make sense. It’s fair to be critical sometimes when things like this pop up. We need to be hitting on our top picks and haven’t been doing a great job of it lately. However, it looks like we might have something in Kincaid and hopefully Torrence is the real deal. Looks like cook might be something too. We will see with Elam. 

 

Not to jump into you guys conversation, but I'm curious because I assumed everyone basically agreed that Elam improved quite a bit toward the last quarter of last season which was encouraging at least to some degree....

 

So I'm just wondering did you not think he showed improvement down that stretch? 

[NewEra]

2 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

Not to jump into you guys conversation, but I'm curious because I assumed everyone basically agreed that Elam improved quite a bit toward the last quarter of last season which was encouraging at least to some degree....

 

So I'm just wondering did you not think he showed improvement down that stretch? 

Seems to me like the problem is Dane Jackson being out there with the starters 

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, NewEra said:

seize the moment big man!!  Take it and run and fast as you can!

Rumble young man rumble

[whorlnut]

2 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

Not to jump into you guys conversation, but I'm curious because I assumed everyone basically agreed that Elam improved quite a bit toward the last quarter of last season which was encouraging at least to some degree....

 

So I'm just wondering did you not think he showed improvement down that stretch? 

New Era basically said it in another post. We have no idea what is going on in the film room or practice field. I honestly think elams elite traits make up for lack of scheme knowledge. He’s obviously not where the staff wants him to be at this point or we wouldn’t be having these conversations. 

[Airseven]

7 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Sending Dane out when he was absolutely abused at the position last year isn’t the way. We know what we got with this guy on Sundays and it isn’t close to good enough. It’s easier to learn through reps then in a classroom 

 

Two schools of thought. McDermott prioritizes familiarity which gives Jackson the early nod. Have to assume he wants to see more from Elam - perhaps related to performance, work ethic, personality, who knows - before giving him more reps. He's an old school, earn it type. 

 

I do agree that knowing what you have in Jackson vs. wanting to test Elam is also a fair point. The head coach just isn't in that camp.

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, nucci said:

I wish they'd stop saying, don't sleep on....

I'm not sleeping, I'm just resting my eyes on Scherfield/Khalil/Harty. You were saying something abou.....

Edited July 27, 2023 by Jauronimo

[fergie's ire]

16 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

New Era basically said it in another post. We have no idea what is going on in the film room or practice field. I honestly think elams elite traits make up for lack of scheme knowledge. He’s obviously not where the staff wants him to be at this point or we wouldn’t be having these conversations. 

Maybe.....  However, it seems to me that McDermott likes to use the depth chart as a motivational tool early in camp.  I remember Phillips getting all the 1st team reps in the first half of camp the year we drafted Oliver.  McDermott seed to wanted to A) congratulate Phillips on the good work he had done for the team the year before (particularly since he felt unloved in Miami) and B) Send a message to Ed that he needed to work and earn his position even as a top 10 pick.  On offense, guys like Kincaid need to get in there to learn scheme and timing, but, particularly on defense, I think McDermott likes to use these positions as carrots and sticks and doesn't necessarily relate to the players' talent level or eventual place on the depth chart.

[Beck Water]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

No- he didn’t have tix the last i had heard

 

Well, if he's got other things in his life, that's understandable

 

But if he missed (and we missed) due to mere lack of tickets, I think he's a freakin' public benefactor and ought to have tickets earmarked for him!!!!

[Beck Water]

39 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

Not to jump into you guys conversation, but I'm curious because I assumed everyone basically agreed that Elam improved quite a bit toward the last quarter of last season which was encouraging at least to some degree....

 

So I'm just wondering did you not think he showed improvement down that stretch? 

 

I think Elam very much improved, yes. 

 

But keep in mind that Benford was on IR starting in Game 12 and then inactive the rest of the season

 

Two things can be true:

the Bills (and fans) can believe that Elam improved the last few games of the season

AND

the Bills can also believe that especially in zone coverage, Jackson and then Benford are still the better players at this point.

12 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

Maybe.....  However, it seems to me that McDermott likes to use the depth chart as a motivational tool early in camp.

 

McDermott and the position coaches 100% like to send the message "nothing is guaranteed, everything is earned" during camp

Edited July 27, 2023 by Beck Water

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

No Astro notes for today?  😥

I saw in the foment section of Astro’s article yesterday that he didn’t have tickets for today’s practice but was working on it. I’m guessing he never found a ticket.

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, BillsFan4 said:

I saw in the foment section of Astro’s article yesterday that he didn’t have tickets for today’s practice but was working on it. I’m guessing he never found a ticket.

 

That's.....😥😥😭

[Solomon Grundy]

30 minutes ago, Airseven said:

 

Two schools of thought. McDermott prioritizes familiarity which gives Jackson the early nod. Have to assume he wants to see more from Elam - perhaps related to performance, work ethic, personality, who knows - before giving him more reps. He's an old school, earn it type. 

 

I do agree that knowing what you have in Jackson vs. wanting to test Elam is also a fair point. The head coach just isn't in that camp.

Why draft Elam so high if performance, work ethic, personality were issues? 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, whorlnut said:

New Era basically said it in another post. We have no idea what is going on in the film room or practice field. I honestly think elams elite traits make up for lack of scheme knowledge. He’s obviously not where the staff wants him to be at this point or we wouldn’t be having these conversations. 

 

So you didn't answer the question that doesn't pertain to any of those things you mentioned above. Did you or did you not see his play on the field improve the last stretch of the season?

 

But I'll respond to your statement anyway, so no disrespect intended here, you kinda contradicted yourself a bit....you said "we have no idea any details in film room, practice etc" ...although you seem to be suggesting he has a lack of scheme knowledge and he's not where the staff wants etc. 

 

You can't say nobody knows what goes on in the film room etc and then follow it up with him having a lack of knowledge in the film room and how staff feels about where he's at...

 

 

Edited July 27, 2023 by Patrick Duffy

[BananaB]

45 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Sending him out on day one of training camp isn’t the way?  Ok man. Do you 

You do realize at one point last season we had a CB rotation last year. When have you ever seen that in the NFL? Just put the kid on the field and let him play, stop ***** babying him ffs. If he don’t got it we’ll know shortly. One thing we do know is Dane doesn’t have it. 

9 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Why draft Elam so high if performance, work ethic, personality were issues? 

It makes no sense at this point. 

[NewEra]

8 minutes ago, BananaB said:

You do realize at one point last season we had a CB rotation last year. When have you ever seen that in the NFL? Just put the kid on the field and let him play, stop ***** babying him ffs. If he don’t got it we’ll know shortly. One thing we do know is Dane doesn’t have it. 

It makes no sense at this point. 

Yes, I do realize. You do realize it’s day 2 of training camp right?

 

again- do you.  Same **** different day

[finn]

1 hour ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

I did read last year that Gabe was 220+.

That was represented as a positive last year, complete with pictures of "ripped Gabe." I'll take his lightness and ankle status with a grain of salt until I see him catch more balls than he drops. 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Dane Jackson is ideally a key back up, one way to keep him engaged and bought in, is to give him first opportunity to win the starting job