OT…opinions of Jalen Hurts

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

20 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I'm not sold on Hurts yet.   I am a college football fan and he really was limited as a passer in college.   He's improved A LOT but nobody had a better combination of blocking and receiving talent around him last year.   

What is your favorite college team ?

[BADOLBILZ]

9 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Yup. Allen had 42 TDs to Hurt's 35. Now take a look at turnover differential between the 2. 

 

 

Rushing TD's are much less indicative of QB quality than passing.    

 

In 2015 + 2017 Tyrod Taylor combined for more TD's and far less turnovers than Matt Ryan.

 

Sandwiched between there 2016 Matt Ryan won the NFL MVP.

 

 But there was never really any question who was the better QUATERBACK over those 3 years,  was there?

 

The Eagles offensive roster and system are more conducive to production on the ground than the Bills.   Much more.   

 

Running TD's are generally indicative of a system choice or a big roster advantage.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I agree but wasn't Hurts very good when he got inserted into the starting line up the previous season? That team wasn't playing nearly as good either. 

Not really, no 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

What is your favorite college team ?

 

 

Irrelevant.   I don't have a bias against any of the teams that Hurts played for or against in a big game.   I look at players thru the lens of how they would project to the NFL.   If you have a point to make, say it.   Nothing I've said about him is untrue.   I'm sure you probably thought Jake was going to be a good QB because you are a Georgia homer but my team had similar game manager QB's  winning championships and I never thought those guys would be any good in the NFL.    I'm not sucked into that homerism.

[billsfan89]

21 hours ago, Chicken Boo said:

There are not 5 QBs in football better than Jalen Hurts currently.  

 

Outside of that costly fumble, he was great in the Super Bowl.  

Mahomes, Josh, Burrow and maybe Rodgers if you go on reputation and thinking last years down year was due to supporting cast are players I can firmly put over Hurts. I cannot put Herbert, Lawrence, Lamar or any other QB ahead of Hurts at this moment 

[C.Biscuit97]

2 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I don't think that anybody who knows anything about JH would question his great attitude, dedication, intelligence, or the fact that he is talented.

 

As far as the "Alabama thing," c'mon CB! The Big 12 is a MUCH easier conference to play in. This is beyond question. Much of the reason for this is weaker defenses. Don't get me wrong; he made the smart move. He was not going to start over Tua because (at least at the time if not currently), Tua was a clearly superior passer.

 

I am thrilled that he got to the SB and wish he would have won it. He took the benching in the title game SO well that he deserves success. He is a good man and I am glad that he plays in ideal circumstances at Philly.

Bill, he was a top prospect who struggled at Bama. He then was the runner up as for the Heisman and nfl mvp. Maybe the guy is turning into the top prospect in the country he always was. 
 

as for the sec vs Big 12 thing, I’d take Oklahoma qbs all day over Bamas.

 

as a skeptic of Allen, bringing up his college passing % at this point would be insanely idiotic. After like 3 years, it might be time to turn the page of Hurts career at Bama when he was 19, which was so bad!!! He won sec player of the year! Maybe the guy who is constantly on winning teams, finishing 1st or 2nd for major awards might just be really good. 

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

Does the conference even matter? I understand how dominant the SEC is but look at the players

 

Mahomes=> Big 12

Allen=> Mountain West

Burrow=> Big 10 to SEC

Lawrence=> ACC

Hurts=> Big 12 to SEC

Herbert=> Pac 12

Jackson=> ACC

 

If the SEC didn't pull in a couple Big 10 and Big12 transfers, they would be pulling a goose egg as far as NFL relevant QB's. Well, Prescott was all Miss. St. but you get the point. Conference seems to matter very little. 

Dominant in what way? Of course other conferences also have great players. Teams? No comparison. The big difference is on both lines, especially the OL.The overall defenses are also clearly worse in the Big 12 and every other conference except perhaps the Big 10. 

 

Did you see what UGA did to TCU? Or what a not so great Alabama team did to Kansas State? Talk radio tried to pump up both of these games as close contests. It should even get worse with Texas (who I think is underrated) and Oklahoma joining the SEC. 

 

Of course, the above is jmo. 

[Chaos]

Hurts is not in a process system. Instead Hurts is the beneficiary of a great coach, a great oline, and an excellent offensive skill set.  I don't remember another young QB ever being put into such a position.  Process teams get a generational talent at QB, then focus on building a defense.  Trust process. 

[Bill from NYC]

7 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Bill, he was a top prospect who struggled at Bama. He then was the runner up as for the Heisman and nfl mvp. Maybe the guy is turning into the top prospect in the country he always was. 
 

as for the sec vs Big 12 thing, I’d take Oklahoma qbs all day over Bamas.

 

as a skeptic of Allen, bringing up his college passing % at this point would be insanely idiotic. After like 3 years, it might be time to turn the page of Hurts career at Bama when he was 19, which was so bad!!! He won sec player of the year! Maybe the guy who is constantly on winning teams, finishing 1st or 2nd for major awards might just be really good. 

I think that you may have misunderstood me.  Hurts had a fine career at Bama. He was a leader and a winner. He was pulled in the title game because he wasn't getting it done that night and Tua won the game with his heroic pass in OT against a loaded UGA team. That said, Jalen got them to that game. I am a fan of his.

 

The point that I might have failed to make is that his Eagle team is LOADED with talent. More talent than any other team. Look at his receivers and his OL (and btw I was screaming for the Bills to draft Landon Dickerson). 

 

I have nothing but fond wishes for JH and with his attidude and work ethic I think that he will more than likely continue to improve.

[Bill from NYC]

8 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Hurts is not in a process system. Instead Hurts is the beneficiary of a great coach, a great oline, and an excellent offensive skill set.  I don't remember another young QB ever being put into such a position.  Process teams get a generational talent at QB, then focus on building a defense.  Trust process. 

Not to split hairs but check out the great players drafted by the Colts (to include a great LT and RT) just before they drafted Peyton Manning. And iirc, it even took Peyton a while to settle in.

https://www.drafthistory.com/index.php/teams/colts

[purple haze]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

We will see.  He had a future All Pro cast of receivers at Alabama and wasn't a prolific passer and was ultimately benched for Tua.   With the 2nd best 1-2 punch last year at WR......behind Miami and with Jamar Chase missing so much time in Cinci.......Jalen Hurts threw for just 22 TD's.    I think he has a lot of intangibles and a supporting cast that greatly simplifies his job........but circumstances change..........and I just don't know if he can expand the field the way guys like Mahomes and Allen can or dissect a secondary with precision like Burrow.   And those are ultimately the standards.   

Alabama was a while ago.  He overcame that adversity,  kept working and did well at Oklahoma.  He’s better now than when he came into the league.  I don’t dock players fr having talent around them.  Allen has Diggs and he’s better after having Diggs than he was before Diggs.  Mahomes and Burrow have as much talent playing with them.  
 

We’ll see if Hurts continues to improve and stay consistent but he passes the eye test.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, purple haze said:

Alabama was a while ago.  He overcame that adversity,  kept working and did well at Oklahoma.  He’s better now than when he came into the league.  I don’t dock players fr having talent around them.  Allen has Diggs and he’s better after having Diggs than he was before Diggs.  Mahomes and Burrow have as much talent playing with them.  
 

We’ll see if Hurts continues to improve and stay consistent but he passes the eye test.

 

No none of Allen, Mahomes or Burrow has as much combined OL and receiving talent as Hurts.    That's not even particularly debatable.   Bills and Chiefs have mediocre weapons(around 20th best in the NFL) and the Bengals have had bad offensive lines every year under Burrow.

 

Hurts is set up.........but 14th in TD passes and 10th in passing yardage doesn't "eyeball test" as elite to me.   Brock Purdy was set up to put up huge efficiency numbers  with the leagues best overall group of playmakers and an excellent offensive line too.   I don't think Purdy is elite either, do you?   Did he pass the eyeball test to you because he had more yards per attempt,  a higher QB rating and a higher QBR than Hurts all in a pretty good portion of a full season?   If it only being one season causes you pause remember that Jalen Hurts was not very good his first two seasons in the NFL. 

[NewEra]

7 hours ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

What is your favorite college team ?

He’s a Miami fan

[Irv]

Overrated

[Jerome007]

Not one is saying Hurts is bad! Just that his OL is TRULY elite. And it gives him so much time. A lot of his TD runs are thanks to the OL yet he gets the credit. Yes he is a good runner too, but the point is when OL play great, all credits go to QBs, WRs, RBs. On many of the Eagles goal line TD runs all 5 OL are 3 yards deep in the end zone. You see that often with the Bills? Easier for media and non Eagles fan to give credit  just to one guy...

 

So yeah, to me, hard to know how elite Hurts is, but he IS making the most of it. I recall Wentz with the Colts 2-3 years ago, and was it Romo still with the Cowboys 5 years ago? These OLine were amazing, yet the teams didn't go far.

 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Jerome007

[Orlando Tim]

Hurts is a very good QB, unlikely to lose a game and can make all the plays if his team is going well. He is not top 3 for sure, and likely the 7-10 QB for the league. The top 3 are set and I take Herbert also over him, but if he was a Bill I would put him at 4 for certain.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Irrelevant.   I don't have a bias against any of the teams that Hurts played for or against in a big game.   I look at players thru the lens of how they would project to the NFL.   If you have a point to make, say it.   Nothing I've said about him is untrue.   I'm sure you probably thought Jake was going to be a good QB because you are a Georgia homer but my team had similar game manager QB's  winning championships and I never thought those guys would be any good in the NFL.    I'm not sucked into that homerism.

It's OK. I read you were a big college football fan and I enjoy talking college and pro football with other fans.

 

Many posters here don't follow college football.

 

I meant no offense by my question 

[QB Bills]

I watched a few Philly games and the guy has all day to throw and goes through his reads so slowly. Eventually a receiver is wide open and he hits him. Also, he's the only qb that plays the game needing only 8 yards for a first down, as he has a guaranteed 2 yards every time he sneaks it before getting touched.

 

Roseman has created an excellent team and coaching staff so it sounds ridiculous to criticize him for that contract they gave hurts, but I think they'll come to regret that. Give any of the top QBs that surrounding staff and talent, in that conference with that schedule and they'd go undefeated.

[machine gun kelly]

I’d place Mahomes in his own tier, with tier 2 Josh and Joe Cool, and tier 3 Hurtz, Herbert, and Lamar.  I’m not keeping Rodgers up that high unless I see he’s back to his MVP form two years ago.  He’s now 40 and con in by off a broken thumb.  Who knows if he’ll heal as fast.  Then you go down to Tua, maybe Russel if he comes back to form,  and then all the other guys like Cousins, Tannehill, etc.

[stuvian]

Very impressed by Hurts and his postseason play but still see him as more runner than passer. If they can keep the OL intact for a year or two he'll win a Superbowl.

We won't know how great he is until he is forced to carry the team with a worse roster. 

I think he is a stand up leader and franchise cornerstone 

[Fleezoid]

On 7/22/2023 at 4:09 PM, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I believe you are mistaken.  I've searched and could not find anything about a new rule to ban the "tush- push".

 

Last I saw, the rule wasn't even considered for a vote. I've also heard a few teams are planning to put it in their playbook.

[Generic_Bills_Fan]

On 7/21/2023 at 11:23 PM, newcam2012 said:

I love Allen but Hurts could be better than him. The guy is fabulous with his legs, has that it factor, is a winner, and has become a very good passer. He had an outstanding season and super bowl. 

 

I still have Allen ranked higher but I can see why Hurts is receiving a lot of accolades. He looks the part. Only question is can he build upon his great season and play similarly. 

Hurts is kind of a victim of his own team…that roster is just absolutely loaded so he’s probably always gonna get ranked below guys that we have watched carry teams single handedly 

 

I think if you swapped josh and jalen the bills would get worse and the eagles would get better but there’s no way to prove or disprove that hypothetical obviously 

 

 

[bigduke6]

Carson Wentz played at an MVP level for an nearly an entire season till he got hurt.   one year doesnt mean much imo.    we'll see how well Hurtz does with a full season of tape on him.   he better hope that amazing OLine stays healthy.

[purple haze]

On 7/22/2023 at 9:12 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

No none of Allen, Mahomes or Burrow has as much combined OL and receiving talent as Hurts.    That's not even particularly debatable.   Bills and Chiefs have mediocre weapons(around 20th best in the NFL) and the Bengals have had bad offensive lines every year under Burrow.

 

Hurts is set up.........but 14th in TD passes and 10th in passing yardage doesn't "eyeball test" as elite to me.   Brock Purdy was set up to put up huge efficiency numbers  with the leagues best overall group of playmakers and an excellent offensive line too.   I don't think Purdy is elite either, do you?   Did he pass the eyeball test to you because he had more yards per attempt,  a higher QB rating and a higher QBR than Hurts all in a pretty good portion of a full season?   If it only being one season causes you pause remember that Jalen Hurts was not very good his first two seasons in the NFL. 

We’ll see which one of us is right soon enough.  🤷🏾‍♂️

[BADOLBILZ]

4 minutes ago, purple haze said:

We’ll see which one of us is right soon enough.  🤷🏾‍♂️

 

Well you are already wrong about the quality of offensive talent around each of those quarterbacks..........basically your rationale is already wrong.

 

You can want him to be great but as I said........Nick Foles was great for a season under Chip Kelly and Carson Wentz was great for a season under Doug Pederson.   The common denominator was that they had a big advantage.........in Foles' case it was an offense the league didn't know how to defend yet and in Wentz case it was having the best roster in the league.  

 

Hurts has the best roster in the league on paper and, in particular, the best combination of OL and skill talent on offense.  We will see if Hurts can maintain his overall productivity while elevating his modest bulk passing production,  which is NOT elite.   Foles and Wentz looked entirely different when the talent around them and schematic advantage declined.    Elite QB's do not fall apart like that.

[loyal2dagame]

On 7/22/2023 at 7:45 AM, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

When people debate Allen's place in the top end of QBs us Bills fans are always quick to point out that you have to incorporate Josh's rushing ability into the equation. Same should apply to Hurts.

 

Minimize him for 22 passing YDs, but don't forget to stack those 13 rushing TDs he scored last year or the fact that he only turned the ball over 6 times in the regular season.

 

Is Hurts an "elite" QB? No, not yet. He had an elite season last year and is trending in that direction IMO.  

That's 35 total when the really elite QBs are putting up 40+ total tds. 

Don't count on 13 rushing tds this season.  I'll be surprised if he gets over 8.

We'll see what happens this season. Maybe he is legit, maybe not. 

I think he's more hype than skill for a few different reasons, one being where he plays. Time will tell. 

[newcam2012]

8 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

Hurts is kind of a victim of his own team…that roster is just absolutely loaded so he’s probably always gonna get ranked below guys that we have watched carry teams single handedly 

 

I think if you swapped josh and jalen the bills would get worse and the eagles would get better but there’s no way to prove or disprove that hypothetical obviously 

 

 

I would take Allen over Hurts all day every day.