Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[Just Jack]

11 hours ago, mrags said:

and donate to Terrys foundation for fueling his yacht 

Terry can frack his own fuel. 

[K-9]

2 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

Terry can frack his own fuel. 

With the tears of Sabres fans.

[LeGOATski]

9 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Sheeesh. For the love of God! It’s the sales tactic not the product. 🙄

What sales tactic? Give us the specific details of the shady tactics they're using at this event.

[RichStadiumGuy]

Here... let's throw another wrench into the gearbox while we're at it!

 

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/rochester/politics/2024/03/08/activists-ask-supreme-court-to-hear-bills-stadium-lawsuit

 

[SoCal Deek]

7 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

What sales tactic? Give us the specific details of the shady tactics they're using at this event.

Before I do…..Have you ever been to a timeshare presentation? If you haven’t, I’m not sure what experience you bring here. 

10 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

Deets when your done.

 

They can tap dance all they want. All I want to know is what can I afford. Give me a rate card and a break down of amenities.

A clarification: what you really want to know is what it costs, not what you can afford. Asking what you can afford is one of the classic hallmarks of both new car sales and timeshare ‘presentations’. 

[SoonerBillsFan]

Not surprised he stayed, but that is a cap wrecking move potentially. 

1 hour ago, RichStadiumGuy said:

Here... let's throw another wrench into the gearbox while we're at it!

 

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/rochester/politics/2024/03/08/activists-ask-supreme-court-to-hear-bills-stadium-lawsuit

 

What a joke.

[RiotAct]

1 hour ago, RichStadiumGuy said:

Here... let's throw another wrench into the gearbox while we're at it!

 

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/rochester/politics/2024/03/08/activists-ask-supreme-court-to-hear-bills-stadium-lawsuit

 

lulz.  Good luck with that.

[Jrb1979]

9 hours ago, Punching Bag said:

 

They had some other choices and then they got in bed with Jerry Jones.

What choices?  

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Before I do…..Have you ever been to a timeshare presentation? If you haven’t, I’m not sure what experience you bring here. 

A clarification: what you really want to know is what it costs, not what you can afford. Asking what you can afford is one of the classic hallmarks of both new car sales and timeshare ‘presentations’. 

Yep. Please do. Gives us the specific details about this event. Don't just describe a timeshare sales event.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, Jrb1979 said:

What choices?  

 

One is they did not need to reduce size of stadium to try to drive up seat costs and attempt (I do not think it will make it successful) to being all PSL.  They are going to get some blowback from this.

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, Punching Bag said:

 

One is they did not need to reduce size of stadium to try to drive up seat costs and attempt (I do not think it will make it successful) to being all PSL.  They are going to get some blowback from this.

That’s exactly why they reduced the size. So that they can PSL every single seat and they know there will continue to be a waiting list no matter what.

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

Yep. Please do. Gives us the specific details about this event. Don't just describe a timeshare sales event.

Ugh! First of all, it’s not an ‘event’. I’m suggesting that it sure sounds like the typical 90 minute ‘presentation’ that one gets at a timeshare. Is this REALLY that hard to understand? Or do you just want to argue about an observation? 

[Jrb1979]

4 minutes ago, Punching Bag said:

 

One is they did not need to reduce size of stadium to try to drive up seat costs and attempt (I do not think it will make it successful) to being all PSL.  They are going to get some blowback from this.

It makes sense to reduce the size of the stadium. It's the way just every new stadium is going. Less seats create higher demand.  I get the frustration as a lot people are going to be priced out from going to games. The Bills will no longer be near the bottom in average ticket prices. New stadium will put them closer to the top. 

[Punching Bag]

2 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

It makes sense to reduce the size of the stadium. It's the way just every new stadium is going. Less seats create higher demand.  I get the frustration as a lot people are going to be priced out from going to games. The Bills will no longer be near the bottom in average ticket prices. New stadium will put them closer to the top. 

 

I am the president of a Bills Backers group for almost 30 years and many are regular occasional visitors to stadium.  Grandparents talk about bringing their grandkids to first game.   For a lot of them being able to go to games with family is part of their fandom.  The commercialization of fandom starting with "Bills Mafia" has reduced support of Bills and the new stadium will as well.   Bills will be selling more and more tickets to brokers who will be selling them to people who tried to buy season tickets in past but rejected due to zip code.   I am probably going to stop being president of group since I have too many issues to travel regularly and disappointed how Bills stopped supporting Bills Backers groups promoting Bills Mafia instead,

[Mango]

I don't love the public money but I could behind it with more public benefit/protections. 

 

There are two things that I am pretty heavy on: 

1. Any stadium built with public funds should prohibit the owner from collecting PSL fees. You can either collect PSL or collect public subsidy. You cannot collect both. 
2. Any municipality whose money has gone to build the stadium should have open access to viewing the NFL games inside. If you live in NYC, Albany, or Utica you shouldn't have to pay or NFL Sunday ticket or 12 different streaming providers. Granted this was a bit easier to work around in the pre-streaming era. But I still believe it.

 

$1B is an insane amount of public subsidy to turn around and charge PSL's. If owners want to charge it or restrict viewership access then they can pay for their stadiums themselves. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

4 minutes ago, Mango said:

I don't love the public money but I could behind it with more public benefit/protections. 

 

There are two things that I am pretty heavy on: 

1. Any stadium built with public funds should prohibit the owner from collecting PSL fees. You can either collect PSL or collect public subsidy. You cannot collect both. 
2. Any municipality whose money has gone to build the stadium should have open access to viewing the NFL games inside. If you live in NYC, Albany, or Utica you shouldn't have to pay or NFL Sunday ticket or 12 different streaming providers. Granted this was a bit easier to work around in the pre-streaming era. But I still believe it.

 

$1B is an insane amount of public subsidy to turn around and charge PSL's. If owners want to charge it or restrict viewership access then they can pay for their stadiums themselves. 

The public money seems to grow larger in this thread every day lol.  Its not 1b

[Punching Bag]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

I don't love the public money but I could behind it with more public benefit/protections. 

 

There are two things that I am pretty heavy on: 

1. Any stadium built with public funds should prohibit the owner from collecting PSL fees. You can either collect PSL or collect public subsidy. You cannot collect both. 
2. Any municipality whose money has gone to build the stadium should have open access to viewing the NFL games inside. If you live in NYC, Albany, or Utica you shouldn't have to pay or NFL Sunday ticket or 12 different streaming providers. Granted this was a bit easier to work around in the pre-streaming era. But I still believe it.

 

$1B is an insane amount of public subsidy to turn around and charge PSL's. If owners want to charge it or restrict viewership access then they can pay for their stadiums themselves. 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Mango said:

I don't love the public money but I could behind it with more public benefit/protections. 

 

There are two things that I am pretty heavy on: 

1. Any stadium built with public funds should prohibit the owner from collecting PSL fees. You can either collect PSL or collect public subsidy. You cannot collect both. 
2. Any municipality whose money has gone to build the stadium should have open access to viewing the NFL games inside. If you live in NYC, Albany, or Utica you shouldn't have to pay or NFL Sunday ticket or 12 different streaming providers. Granted this was a bit easier to work around in the pre-streaming era. But I still believe it.

 

$1B is an insane amount of public subsidy to turn around and charge PSL's. If owners want to charge it or restrict viewership access then they can pay for their stadiums themselves. 

 

 

4 hours ago, RichStadiumGuy said:

Here... let's throw another wrench into the gearbox while we're at it!

 

https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/rochester/politics/2024/03/08/activists-ask-supreme-court-to-hear-bills-stadium-lawsuit

 

 

Good reason for NY Jiants and Jest to have stadium in New Jersey.

[Mango]

18 minutes ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

The public money seems to grow larger in this thread every day lol.  Its not 1b

 

Thanks for the correction. Scratch everything I just said because the public money is only $850M not a billion. 

 

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

27 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Thanks for the correction. Scratch everything I just said because the public money is only $850M not a billion. 

 

In every stadium that has recently been built there are always cost over runs.

 

In fact Atlanta wrote into the agreement that falcons would pay all cost over runs.

 

In case of cost over runs for Bills who will pick up the cost ?

 

Pegula? Surely you can't be serious. 

 

It could easily be 1B by opening day 

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

In every stadium that has recently been built there are always cost over runs.

 

In fact Atlanta wrote into the agreement that falcons would pay all cost over runs.

 

In case of cost over runs for Bills who will pick up the cost ?

 

Pegula? Surely you can't be serious. 

 

It could easily be 1B by opening day 

The Bills are contractually obligated to pay all cost overruns. 

[Just Jack]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

Before I do…..Have you ever been to a timeshare presentation? If you haven’t, I’m not sure what experience you bring here. 

A clarification: what you really want to know is what it costs, not what you can afford. Asking what you can afford is one of the classic hallmarks of both new car sales and timeshare ‘presentations’. 

 

Our honeymoon was at a timeshare property, my brother-in-law gave us as his wedding gift.  We were "given" a free photo shoot while we were there.  In order to collect, we had to meet up with one of their salespeople.  One of his first questions was if we made $85K or more.  My immediate answer was no, that us being there was a gift, not what we could afford. That pretty much stopped his whole presentation right there.  Total time was less than 10 minutes.  

[nucci]

53 minutes ago, JakeFrommStateFarm said:

In every stadium that has recently been built there are always cost over runs.

 

In fact Atlanta wrote into the agreement that falcons would pay all cost over runs.

 

In case of cost over runs for Bills who will pick up the cost ?

 

Pegula? Surely you can't be serious. 

 

It could easily be 1B by opening day 

I am serious...and don't call....

[mrags]

1 hour ago, Just Jack said:

 

Our honeymoon was at a timeshare property, my brother-in-law gave us as his wedding gift.  We were "given" a free photo shoot while we were there.  In order to collect, we had to meet up with one of their salespeople.  One of his first questions was if we made $85K or more.  My immediate answer was no, that us being there was a gift, not what we could afford. That pretty much stopped his whole presentation right there.  Total time was less than 10 minutes.  

Genius 

[PromoTheRobot]

5 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

A clarification: what you really want to know is what it costs, not what you can afford. Asking what you can afford is one of the classic hallmarks of both new car sales and timeshare ‘presentations’. 

 

I have always maintained a budget for Bills and Sabres tickets. And I've managed them with the expectation of an eventual PSL. So I have a hard number in mind. I'm sure I can get something but I want to be covered at the very least. I'd love to also have radiant heat. When they first described the stadium they said there would be a lot more heated sections. But I have a feeling they downgraded much of the stadium due to ballooning costs.

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

 

Thanks for the correction. Scratch everything I just said because the public money is only $850M not a billion. 

 

 

2 hours ago, K-9 said:

The Bills are contractually obligated to pay all cost overruns. 

 

The public contribution is set at $850MM.  The rest is up to the Bills and Terry. That includes PSLs, loans from the NFL and out of pocket. This is why I'm worried they are downgrading amenities to keep costs low. As you know everything costs double in WNY.

[Wacka]

Costs are ALWAYS going  up. We got seasons in 1986 (when Kelly signed and the  two 2-14 years). Got them thru  Flickengers (Super Duper owner where B-I-L worked. Paid $80 for  Goal Line 35 rows up. Not once in almost 40 years have they gone down one cent.

[mrags]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I have always maintained a budget for Bills and Sabres tickets. And I've managed them with the expectation of an eventual PSL. So I have a hard number in mind. I'm sure I can get something but I want to be covered at the very least. I'd love to also have radiant heat. When they first described the stadium they said there would be a lot more heated sections. But I have a feeling they downgraded much of the stadium due to ballooning costs.

Exactly where I’m at Promo. I know the numbers are going to be higher for tickets than what I currently pay. I know the PSLs will probably be higher than they originally said when they sent out that survey. I don’t have a number in mind of what’s too much. But I know that if I’m going to pay for season tickets in the new stadium, at the increase in price, I want to be comfortable no matter what weather. I don’t want to be dripping wet. I don’t want to be freezing my ass off. If it is reasonable enough I will buy tix. If it’s not, I’ll take the money I saved and buy myself a toy convertible that I’ve wanted for a while. It’s pretty much that simple. 

2 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

Our honeymoon was at a timeshare property, my brother-in-law gave us as his wedding gift.  We were "given" a free photo shoot while we were there.  In order to collect, we had to meet up with one of their salespeople.  One of his first questions was if we made $85K or more.  My immediate answer was no, that us being there was a gift, not what we could afford. That pretty much stopped his whole presentation right there.  Total time was less than 10 minutes.  

Coming from someone about to go on vacation in Hawaii. And for a few of the nights we are staying at a timeshare property, this is a genius idea and I’m definitely going to use it. In fact, now that you mention it, I just lost my job, and my wife is a stay at home mom that collects butterflies. 

[Mike in Horseheads]

14 minutes ago, mrags said:

Exactly where I’m at Promo. I know the numbers are going to be higher for tickets than what I currently pay. I know the PSLs will probably be higher than they originally said when they sent out that survey. I don’t have a number in mind of what’s too much. But I know that if I’m going to pay for season tickets in the new stadium, at the increase in price, I want to be comfortable no matter what weather. I don’t want to be dripping wet. I don’t want to be freezing my ass off. If it is reasonable enough I will buy tix. If it’s not, I’ll take the money I saved and buy myself a toy convertible that I’ve wanted for a while. It’s pretty much that simple. 

Coming from someone about to go on vacation in Hawaii. And for a few of the nights we are staying at a timeshare property, this is a genius idea and I’m definitely going to use it. In fact, now that you mention it, I just lost my job, and my wife is a stay at home mom that collects butterflies. 

LMAO on both. Ya ever going to visit us in the SB again?

[mrags]

1 minute ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

LMAO on both. Ya ever going to visit us in the SB again?

Idk. Too much interaction with SDS. I can only take so much 

[Just Jack]

1 hour ago, mrags said:

In fact, now that you mention it, I just lost my job, and my wife is a stay at home mom that collects butterflies. 

Sounds like you could be on a home buying show, but you need a job.  May I suggest a potato farmer for leprechauns?  

[K-9]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

The public contribution is set at $850MM.  The rest is up to the Bills and Terry. That includes PSLs, loans from the NFL and out of pocket. This is why I'm worried they are downgrading amenities to keep costs low. As you know everything costs double in WNY.

Depending on the amenity, I have to believe that some of the infrastructure to support that amenity is already included in the original $1.4b cost, like the heated seats for example. What other amenities might fall under that criteria? 

[boater]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

The public contribution is set at $850MM.  The rest is up to the Bills and Terry. That includes PSLs, loans from the NFL and out of pocket. This is why I'm worried they are downgrading amenities to keep costs low. As you know everything costs double in WNY.

 

Many of "the public" complained like stuck pigs about the $850 million. In hindsight, that will be a tremendous bargain for the taxpayer.

 

In addition to his share, Terry Pegula has to cover cost overruns out of his pocket--and those are going to be a doozy.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

20 hours ago, mrags said:

Yeah I read all that. And everything you said before. And I 100% think you are delusional. I had season tix in the end zones for 12+ years. Now I’m in the clubs. I know both sides of it. And I don’t think there is any way that we are going to end PSLs in any section. Minus maybe the standing only party deck. Believe what you want. Your wrong. 
 

oh, and breaths and paragraphs helps. You’re gonna give yourself an aneurism. 

See you aren’t getting what I am saying. I am not saying the Buffalo Bills or Legends want to drop PSL’s. They may have no choice if Bills fans don’t buy in those sections PSL’s. What do you think the Bills are going to say I am not dropping PSL’s for that section I rather have it empty for years? No way that isn’t going to happen. The Bills would be stupid have those seats sit empty. So what you’re saying is ridiculous they aren’t going to stubborn staying firm on their PSL’s for crappy seats letting them sit empty. That isn’t happening. Also the Bills haven’t even announced what sections are PSL’s as far as I know. 62,000 seats is a lot of seats for an economically challenged market. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that it’s going to be tough. Look at the Buffalo Sabres we have trouble selling 19,070 seats unless it’s Connor McDavid or the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Canadian fans come. It’s going to be a tough sale Bills fans can’t give the Bills what they don’t have. It has nothing to do with loving the Bills. This comes down to how much is enough for the Pegula family. I think odds are against the Bills and Legends selling 62,000 PSL’s and it has nothing to do with win loss. Your not getting discounts for Buffalo Sabres games on milk carton anymore. This is a city that couldn’t sell $6 Buffalo Braves NBA tickets so don’t tell me I am delusional. I am living in reality and what this Western New York market can afford we can agree to disagree in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Edited March 10 by Buffalo Super Fan

[QCity]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

This is a city that couldn’t sell $6 Buffalo Braves NBA tickets so don’t tell me I am delusional.

 

There's a slight difference between the current NFL and the NBA in Buffalo in the 70s. Just a slight difference.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

Just now, QCity said:

 

There's a slight difference between the current NFL and the NBA in Buffalo in the 70s. Just a slight difference.

Yes back then our Western New York market was bigger with good paying jobs in the factories. Today the Western New York market is very challenged you can see that at empty seats at the Buffalo Sabres games that never happened in the 1970’s. The Buffalo Bills are going to have to stay good and I seriously wonder if that is even enough to sell 62,000 PSL’s in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Buffalo Super Fan]

4 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

 

The public contribution is set at $850MM.  The rest is up to the Bills and Terry. That includes PSLs, loans from the NFL and out of pocket. This is why I'm worried they are downgrading amenities to keep costs low. As you know everything costs double in WNY.

The $850 million should have been enough for Terry Pegula. Also are leaders negotiating the new stadium should have put in a clause where end zone seats and standing room tickets can’t be PSL’s. So working families have a chance to go to a Buffalo Bills game. After 2025 the Bills are basically booting out many of the same fans that have been loyal for years. Like the Dallas Cowboys did after they moved and the Bills don’t seem to really care which is really sad. I guess I saying what is the point of saving the Buffalo Bills if you can never go to a game ever again? If you are watching the Bills games on television what’s the difference if they play out of Austin or Toronto if you can’t ever afford to go to the Bills games like I did. See you start to care less and we saw that with this new stadium how Buffalo fans didn’t say whatever you want Terry Pegula. Our leaders did but not so much the residents. And I think as time goes on the divide is going to get bigger where residents priced out say let both the Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Sabres go if it gets to a point that the average resident can’t afford to go to a game in person in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[mrags]

39 minutes ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

See you aren’t getting what I am saying. I am not saying the Buffalo Bills or Legends want to drop PSL’s. They may have no choice if Bills fans don’t buy in those sections PSL’s. What do you think the Bills are going to say I am not dropping PSL’s for that section I rather have it empty for years? No way that isn’t going to happen. The Bills would be stupid have those seats sit empty. So what you’re saying is ridiculous they aren’t going to stubborn staying firm on their PSL’s for crappy seats letting them sit empty. That isn’t happening. Also the Bills haven’t even announced what sections are PSL’s as far as I know. 62,000 seats is a lot of seats for an economically challenged market. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that it’s going to be tough. Look at the Buffalo Sabres we have trouble selling 19,070 seats unless it’s Connor McDavid or the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Canadian fans come. It’s going to be a tough sale Bills fans can’t give the Bills what they don’t have. It has nothing to do with loving the Bills. This comes down to how much is enough for the Pegula family. I think odds are against the Bills and Legends selling 62,000 PSL’s and it has nothing to do with win loss. Your not getting discounts for Buffalo Sabres games on milk carton anymore. This is a city that couldn’t sell $6 Buffalo Braves NBA tickets so don’t tell me I am delusional. I am living in reality and what this Western New York market can afford we can agree to disagree in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Yeah I DO get exactly everything you are saying and I think you’re batchit crazy. First of all, they don’t sell out 100% to capacity. They don’t currently do that now. Last I checked they had about 58k season ticket holders. They have to leave some available per the league I think. So 62k isn’t even accurate. There’s at least a 7k person waiting list as we speak. Then add in the fact that the new stadium will be 10k seats less than the current one. There’s going to be a 17k waiting list before the thing even opens. Even if 17k people now out from season tix because they don’t want to or can’t afford the PSL and ticket fees, there will be a large pool to take from for years. 
 

now, if you want to argue that eventually the PSLs will go away in some areas when the team has trouble selling games out, I’ll listen to the argument as soon as Allen is no longer a Bill and we are at the bottom of the standings for years again. Until then, it’s not going to happen. And honestly, if they suck that bad, who really cares happens to them and their PSL issues. 
 

you keep bringing up the Sabres. Hockey is like the 5th most popular sport in America. Behind Football? baseball, NASCAR, Golf. Hell, WWE has better ratings. Nobody gives a crap about hockey. I don’t care how popular it is in the city of Buffalo, it doesn’t draw people coming to the arena (other than leafs fans) from out of town ever. Bringing it up just shows how out of touch you are with it. 
 

again, they are having 100% PSLs throughout the entire stadium (minus maybe the party deck with standing room because we don’t know yet). They’ve announced it. It’s not changing. Just stop. 

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, boater said:

 

Many of "the public" complained like stuck pigs about the $850 million. In hindsight, that will be a tremendous bargain for the taxpayer.

 

In addition to his share, Terry Pegula has to cover cost overruns out of his pocket--and those are going to be a doozy.

And more than a good chunk of that will be passed along to ticket purchasers, so you get to pay for virtually all of it.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

See you aren’t getting what I am saying. I am not saying the Buffalo Bills or Legends want to drop PSL’s. They may have no choice if Bills fans don’t buy in those sections PSL’s. What do you think the Bills are going to say I am not dropping PSL’s for that section I rather have it empty for years? No way that isn’t going to happen. The Bills would be stupid have those seats sit empty. So what you’re saying is ridiculous they aren’t going to stubborn staying firm on their PSL’s for crappy seats letting them sit empty. That isn’t happening. Also the Bills haven’t even announced what sections are PSL’s as far as I know. 62,000 seats is a lot of seats for an economically challenged market. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that it’s going to be tough. Look at the Buffalo Sabres we have trouble selling 19,070 seats unless it’s Connor McDavid or the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Canadian fans come. It’s going to be a tough sale Bills fans can’t give the Bills what they don’t have. It has nothing to do with loving the Bills. This comes down to how much is enough for the Pegula family. I think odds are against the Bills and Legends selling 62,000 PSL’s and it has nothing to do with win loss. Your not getting discounts for Buffalo Sabres games on milk carton anymore. This is a city that couldn’t sell $6 Buffalo Braves NBA tickets so don’t tell me I am delusional. I am living in reality and what this Western New York market can afford we can agree to disagree in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Your history of the Braves and their attendance is revisionist. For example in 1973-1974 they were 4th in the league in attendance. Braves fans supported that team from their inception until carpetbagger John Y Brown sold them off in parts and gutted the team to purposely drive down attendance to be able to break his lease.

 

Damn right we stopped supporting them after that bullcrap. 

[PromoTheRobot]

4 hours ago, K-9 said:

Depending on the amenity, I have to believe that some of the infrastructure to support that amenity is already included in the original $1.4b cost, like the heated seats for example. What other amenities might fall under that criteria? 

 

Fewer sections with heated seats