Stadium Construction Discussion (No PSL/Seat selection posts)

[Einstein]

35 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I am paying for it in ticket prices only, not property tax or PSL….but it gets passed along to some degree.  What extra does it cost the average guy with an $300k house in property tax, anyway? I saw a number somewhere, but don’t know how accurate that was. 

 

Even if it was one dollar… the fact is that I as a taxpayer am a stakeholder in the stadium.

 

35 minutes ago, Augie said:

Everyone can feel free to be as critical as they want. Just know that it won’t change anything. Feel free to waste your emotional energy if you think that is best for you.

 

This is called an Appeal to Futility and it is very dangerous. 

 

Appeal to futility is a problematic rhetorical tactic that can stifle progress and innovation. By insisting that efforts are in vain and won't lead to any meaningful change, it dissuades people from taking action or exploring different perspectives. Historically, this fallacy has been employed to thwart vital social movements and significant personal decisions. By negating the power of collective or personal action, the appeal to futility restricts growth and undermines core democratic principles. It's a flawed and detrimental way to engage in discourse.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Einstein

[Augie]

40 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Even if it was one dollar… the fact is that I as a taxpayer am a stakeholder in the stadium.

 

 

This is called an Appeal to Futility and it is very dangerous. 

 

The appeal to futility is a problematic rhetorical tactic that can stifle progress and innovation. By insisting that efforts are in vain and won't lead to any meaningful change, it dissuades individuals from taking action or exploring different perspectives. Historically, this fallacy has been employed to thwart vital social movements and significant personal decisions. By negating the power of collective or personal action, the appeal to futility restricts growth and undermines core democratic principles. It's a flawed and detrimental way to engage in discourse.

 

A) It’s going to cost me more than a dollar, so I’m in the same boat. 

 

B) Knock yourself out. I studied all that crap too, but I live in the real world. Maybe you are familiar with that. I pick my battles carefully. You go be you, as only you can. 

 

 

.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Augie

[Royale with Cheese]

25 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

A) It’s going to cost me more than a dollar, so I’m in the same boat. 

 

B) Knock yourself out. I studied all that crap too, but I live in the real world. Maybe you are familiar with that. You go be you, as only you can. 

 

He's definitely a comedy routine.

[WotAGuy]

If you’re gonna build a “dome”, Minneapolis’s is the way to go. That place is awesome. I was there for Josh’s leap over Barr. Had a bit of an airport feel to the concourses, but it was really well done and didn’t feel like a typical “dome”. Worth going there to see a game for sure. 
 

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by WotAGuy

[BADOLBILZ]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I bet it's not the only one without a lid 

 

What market is going to be building a new NFL stadium without a dome?    Unpleasant weather used to be the rationale.   But once they put a dome in LA and then when they will subsequently put them in other largely temperate markets like Charlotte and Nashville..........I think it's pretty clear that the reason is not the type of weather it's that ANY weather is bad for the business model.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[BuffBillsForLife]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

I agree Indy is sterile. But you feel that Minnesota’s stadium (photo below) is sterile?

 

Minnesota is my favorite stadium.  A glass dome that looks like a viking ship?  Awesome.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

15 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

What market is going to be building a new NFL stadium without a dome?    Unpleasant weather used to be the rationale.   But once they put a dome in LA and then when they will subsequently put them in other largely temperate markets like Charlotte and Nashville..........I think it's pretty clear that the reason is not the type of weather it's that ANY weather is bad for the business model.

 

 

Exactly and old Buffalo fans in football and baseball that will sit through bad weather in my age category are aging out and the fans of the future are softer today less tolerance for things like freezing cold or rain outs in baseball for thousands of dollars a year instead of my generation freezing for hundreds of dollars a year at a outdoor football or baseball game. I think fans will see like with the Buffalo Bisons April and May home games are tough sells for the Buffalo Bills December home games are tough sells. Good luck Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Bisons with that. Buffalo Super Fan you mentioned the Buffalo Bisons? Yeah I think Sahlen’s Field will be the last ever open air baseball stadium that Buffalo ever builds open air so enjoy why we have it for Buffalo fans that can’t stand domes.
 

Whenever there is ever a new Buffalo Bisons baseball park built in the future it will be smaller than current Sahlen’s Field with 10,000 or less seats in a potential mini retractable dome to drive more minor league baseball revenue for Buffalo Bisons games played in April, May and September for MLB’s cut of the MILB team’s revenue. It won’t be Bob Rich’s call it be MLB mandated that overtime will force it on the minor league affiliates or you are out of organized affiliate baseball regardless of how rich our owners are. They have to follow the mandates of these leagues like nets all the way around Sahlen’s Field for fans safety. That is where this is all heading now that MILB teams have been taken over by MLB owners. The Buffalo Bills open air stadium same deal at some point the NFL owners will say dome the new Buffalo Bills stadium or you are out of the NFL it’s not hard to figure out where this is all heading these leagues want more revenue and to control what they can like cold fans not coming to games? Here we have a climate controlled dome stadium for every fan to enjoy being out of the cold not just the well heeled rich fans. Terry Pegula is a dinosaur owner in football thinking. I get it we have some dinosaur football fans in Buffalo so he plays to that room well. But it’s not were these major leagues NFL and MLB are going. Dinosaur owners are going to have to change or be forced to move or sell their teams in the future in my opinion. Go Bills! Go Bisons! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[WotAGuy]

26 minutes ago, I am leaving for good said:

Exactly and old Buffalo fans in football and baseball that will sit through bad weather in my age category are aging out and the fans of the future are softer today less tolerance for things like freezing cold or rain outs in baseball for thousands of dollars a year instead of my generation freezing for hundreds of dollars a year at a outdoor football or baseball game. I think fans will see like with the Buffalo Bisons April and May home games are tough sells for the Buffalo Bills December home games are tough sells. Good luck Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Bisons with that. Buffalo Super Fan you mentioned the Buffalo Bisons? Yeah I think Sahlen’s Field will be the last ever open air baseball stadium that Buffalo ever builds open air so enjoy why we have it for Buffalo fans that can’t stand domes.
 

Whenever there is ever a new Buffalo Bisons baseball park built in the future it will be smaller than current Sahlen’s Field with 10,000 or less seats in a potential mini retractable dome to drive more minor league baseball revenue for Buffalo Bisons games played in April, May and September for MLB’s cut of the MILB team’s revenue. It won’t be Bob Rich’s call it be MLB mandated that overtime will force it on the minor league affiliates or you are out of organized affiliate baseball regardless of how rich our owners are. They have to follow the mandates of these leagues like nets all the way around Sahlen’s Field for fans safety. That is where this is all heading now that MILB teams have been taken over by MLB owners. The Buffalo Bills open air stadium same deal at some point the NFL owners will say dome the new Buffalo Bills stadium or you are out of the NFL it’s not hard to figure out where this is all heading these leagues want more revenue and to control what they can like cold fans not coming to games? Here we have a climate controlled dome stadium for every fan to enjoy being out of the cold not just the well heeled rich fans. Terry Pegula is a dinosaur owner in football thinking. I get it we have some dinosaur football fans in Buffalo so he plays to that room well. But it’s not were these major leagues NFL and MLB are going. Dinosaur owners are going to have to change or be forced to move or sell their teams in the future in my opinion. Go Bills! Go Bisons! Let’s Go Buffalo 

 

Exactly. I mean, look at all the rugby teams playing in domes. 

[Draconator]

@mrags sent me the latest batch of photos on Friday. My apologies for not getting them uploaded sooner. The new batch starts at 49.jpeg. 

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1slFkG1Tgt1z6Sr5_PsRrflmzreYclzkI?usp=sharing

Edited August 14, 2023 by Draconator

[Einstein]

14 hours ago, Draconator said:

@mrags sent me the latest batch of photos on Friday. My apologies for not getting them uploaded sooner. The new batch starts at 49.jpeg. 

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1slFkG1Tgt1z6Sr5_PsRrflmzreYclzkI?usp=sharing

 

Yep, that’s definitely some fences and dirt.

Just kidding, thanks for posting.

[SoMAn]

23 hours ago, I am leaving for good said:

Exactly and old Buffalo fans in football and baseball that will sit through bad weather in my age category are aging out and the fans of the future are softer today less tolerance for things like freezing cold or rain outs in baseball for thousands of dollars a year instead of my generation freezing for hundreds of dollars a year at a outdoor football or baseball game. I think fans will see like with the Buffalo Bisons April and May home games are tough sells for the Buffalo Bills December home games are tough sells. Good luck Buffalo Bills and Buffalo Bisons with that. Buffalo Super Fan you mentioned the Buffalo Bisons? Yeah I think Sahlen’s Field will be the last ever open air baseball stadium that Buffalo ever builds open air so enjoy why we have it for Buffalo fans that can’t stand domes.
 

Whenever there is ever a new Buffalo Bisons baseball park built in the future it will be smaller than current Sahlen’s Field with 10,000 or less seats in a potential mini retractable dome to drive more minor league baseball revenue for Buffalo Bisons games played in April, May and September for MLB’s cut of the MILB team’s revenue. It won’t be Bob Rich’s call it be MLB mandated that overtime will force it on the minor league affiliates or you are out of organized affiliate baseball regardless of how rich our owners are. They have to follow the mandates of these leagues like nets all the way around Sahlen’s Field for fans safety. That is where this is all heading now that MILB teams have been taken over by MLB owners. The Buffalo Bills open air stadium same deal at some point the NFL owners will say dome the new Buffalo Bills stadium or you are out of the NFL it’s not hard to figure out where this is all heading these leagues want more revenue and to control what they can like cold fans not coming to games? Here we have a climate controlled dome stadium for every fan to enjoy being out of the cold not just the well heeled rich fans. Terry Pegula is a dinosaur owner in football thinking. I get it we have some dinosaur football fans in Buffalo so he plays to that room well. But it’s not were these major leagues NFL and MLB are going. Dinosaur owners are going to have to change or be forced to move or sell their teams in the future in my opinion. Go Bills! Go Bisons! Let’s Go Buffalo 

I believe that a large enough portion of Bills fans answered the surveys stating they didn't want a dome. Too bad they got what they asked for. It's a myth that the Buffalo weather is some huge advantage. Show me proof. Remember the big snow game against the dome team Colts. The Bills barely squeaked out a win on a Shady touchdown. Did the south Florida Dolphins crumble last year's wild card game. No. Again, they barely lost. The Bills lost a bad weather game to the team they regularly beat nowaday - The Pats.

Maybe in the days when the Bills had a stellar run game, snow and wind may have been slightly advantageous, but now they're a passing team. It's now a passing league!  

I've always been anti-dome, but when I see the beautiful natural light covers like the one in Minnesota, I am all for it. Maybe being young and drunk sitting in 10 degree windy stadiums is preferred by some, but the people with money for PSLs and season tickets are going to want comfort.

 

I believe the open-air concept is antiquated and it's a shame Buffalo will have to wait another 50 years before they remedy it.

 

[Punching Bag]

35 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

 

Maybe in the days when the Bills had a stellar run game, snow and wind may have been slightly advantageous, but now they're a passing team. It's now a passing league!  

 

 

The wind is definitely an advantage to Buffalo.  Buffalo kickers practice in the wind and get used to it and make kicks opposing kickers cannot make.

They are eliminating it with new stadium.

 

Cold? It would be more of an advantage for water pipes leaking in opposing bench area equivalent to the Phish bowl with shade just on opposing bench. 

[Punching Bag]

19 hours ago, Draconator said:

@mrags sent me the latest batch of photos on Friday. My apologies for not getting them uploaded sooner. The new batch starts at 49.jpeg. 

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1slFkG1Tgt1z6Sr5_PsRrflmzreYclzkI?usp=sharing

 

Here is preview of image snapshots. 

 

 

Larger images

https://i.ibb.co/QFLwW1v/Stadium-Pictures.png

[SoMAn]

36 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

The wind is definitely an advantage to Buffalo.  Buffalo kickers practice in the wind and get used to it and make kicks opposing kickers cannot make.

They are eliminating it with new stadium.

 

Cold? It would be more of an advantage for water pipes leaking in opposing bench area equivalent to the Phish bowl with shade just on opposing bench. 

I’ll admit Bills’ kickers always have an advantage with the familiarity of local winds. But, the new stadium is designed to reduce the swirling winds that are so common at the current stadium.  The angle of field, (much) higher stands, and that wind reduction facade that supposed to cut down gusts will make a difference. For those occasional games in which the Bills special teams have a slight advantage, it’s a poor trade off for keeping fans warm and dry in the last couple of months. 

[Punching Bag]

Just now, SoMAn said:

I’ll admit Bills’ kickers always have an advantage with the familiarity of local winds. But, the new stadium is designed to reduce the swirling winds that are so common at the current stadium.  The angle of field, (much) higher stands, and that wind reduction facade that supposed to cut down gusts will make a difference. For those occasional games in which the Bills special teams have a slight advantage, it’s a poor trade off for keeping fans warm and dry in the last couple of months. 

 

Since I think a lot more of the fans will be opposition I do not have a lot of care for them.

Bills are going to price themselves out of market with increase in PSLs/tickets sold to travel agencies and ticket resellers.

[boyst]

per google maps a good bit of the ecc campus is not inside of orchard park limits.

 

does this mean anyhting?

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, SoMAn said:

I believe that a large enough portion of Bills fans answered the surveys stating they didn't want a dome. Too bad they got what they asked for. It's a myth that the Buffalo weather is some huge advantage. Show me proof. Remember the big snow game against the dome team Colts. The Bills barely squeaked out a win on a Shady touchdown. Did the south Florida Dolphins crumble last year's wild card game. No. Again, they barely lost. The Bills lost a bad weather game to the team they regularly beat nowaday - The Pats.

Maybe in the days when the Bills had a stellar run game, snow and wind may have been slightly advantageous, but now they're a passing team. It's now a passing league!  

I've always been anti-dome, but when I see the beautiful natural light covers like the one in Minnesota, I am all for it. Maybe being young and drunk sitting in 10 degree windy stadiums is preferred by some, but the people with money for PSLs and season tickets are going to want comfort.

 

I believe the open-air concept is antiquated and it's a shame Buffalo will have to wait another 50 years before they remedy it.

 

Without a doubt when the footing gets bad it favors the offense...  Regardless of how the team operates because that comes down to preparation

 

Offense has multiple advantages.. they know the snap count.. and they know where they are going

 

That's a huge advantage... The defense is playing catch up and is reactive on a bad surface 

 

Tom Brady's best quote.. "if it's snowin, were throwin"

 

Wide receivers know where they are going and it makes the game a lot easier when it's inclement weather.. the corners chasing the wide receivers have it much worse.. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2023 by Buffalo716

[Augie]

20 hours ago, Draconator said:

@mrags sent me the latest batch of photos on Friday. My apologies for not getting them uploaded sooner. The new batch starts at 49.jpeg. 

 

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1slFkG1Tgt1z6Sr5_PsRrflmzreYclzkI?usp=sharing

 

I look at that and wonder how many parking spaces it used to be. That’s my first thought. It will be interesting when we have a full house to see how the parking and traffic are affected. 

[Lost]

29 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I look at that and wonder how many parking spaces it used to be. That’s my first thought. It will be interesting when we have a full house to see how the parking and traffic are affected. 

 

More bag for the local residents

[mrags]

2 hours ago, SoMAn said:

I believe that a large enough portion of Bills fans answered the surveys stating they didn't want a dome. Too bad they got what they asked for. It's a myth that the Buffalo weather is some huge advantage. Show me proof. Remember the big snow game against the dome team Colts. The Bills barely squeaked out a win on a Shady touchdown. Did the south Florida Dolphins crumble last year's wild card game. No. Again, they barely lost. The Bills lost a bad weather game to the team they regularly beat nowaday - The Pats.

Maybe in the days when the Bills had a stellar run game, snow and wind may have been slightly advantageous, but now they're a passing team. It's now a passing league!  

I've always been anti-dome, but when I see the beautiful natural light covers like the one in Minnesota, I am all for it. Maybe being young and drunk sitting in 10 degree windy stadiums is preferred by some, but the people with money for PSLs and season tickets are going to want comfort.

 

I believe the open-air concept is antiquated and it's a shame Buffalo will have to wait another 50 years before they remedy it.

 

Yeah people either don’t get it or they are too enamored with the thought of getting smashed in the parking lot and walking into the stadium 8 minutes before kickoff. The people that are going to have the funds to fork over the PSL and increased ticket prices likely aren’t part of this crowd and like you said, want comfort. I’m in this boat, I’m not rich by any means but if I’m going to spend the amount of money I expect them to charge in the new stadium, I don’t want to do it freezing my @$$ off 4-5 times a year or more with playoffs. The gung-ho “Bills Mafia” crowd that has a reputation for being super rowdy and crazy simply won’t be as crazy as it currently is once the new stadium is built. Sure there will be some of it. But I’d imagine that number is probably cut by at least 25%. This is what they want imo. It looks terrible on a local and national level how idiotic we look on a weekly basis. The rest of the league looks at us like Neanderthals. In all, a lot of the people that wanted open air to continue the craziness will be priced out anyway. So glad they paid attention to people that likely won’t even be attending the games. 

32 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I look at that and wonder how many parking spaces it used to be. That’s my first thought. It will be interesting when we have a full house to see how the parking and traffic are affected. 

It was mostly RV, Busses, and tailgate city or whatever they called it. Not a lot of people parked in that lot besides the RV and Busses. Imo your really not losing a lot of spaces that were actually taken every week.