What does our O-Line look like now?

[Matt_In_NH]

It seems clear who the top 6 are....within those, C, RG, RT can be swapped around some.   I include Morse because there is some (probably minute) chance the Bills could move on from him to gain the 6 million ish in cap space.  The Bills are in the best position to gauge the risk of Morse's concussions.  In that scenario Bates plays C, Torrence RG and Brown RT.   While we are all excited about the prospects of Torrence, you always have to have a wait and see approach when it comes to rookies.....Codie Ford had a lot of excitement to lock down the RT position that never happened.

[Punching Bag]

On 5/5/2023 at 4:48 AM, Ayjent said:

I dont see Bates being traded. Too much uncertainty with Torrence as a rookie and Morse with concussions.  His versatility to fill positions on the line makes him far too valuable as a solid contingency plan for any issues on the line.  

 

Bills matched offer from Bears to keep Bates.  I do not think they will trade him so soon.

[SoCal Deek]

I’m going to be royally pissed if Torrence isn’t starting this year. The kid is massive and played against the highest level of competition in college. If they can’t get him in the lineup as a rookie at OG for heaven’s sake there’s something seriously wrong with the player development staff at OBD. 

[Manther]

On 5/7/2023 at 3:52 AM, Buffalo_Stampede said:

McGovern is a terrible LG.

Why do you say that?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, Manther said:

Why do you say that?

I should’ve worded it better. Terrible starting LG. Or below average starting LG. Whatever sounds better.

 

He’s kind of the opposite of Saffold in a way. Saffold was a better run blocker than pass blocker. McGovern is a better pass blocker than run blocker. But he’s a reserve level OG IMO. Not someone you sign and consider him a locked in starter. 
 

He is an upgrade over Saffold IMO, but I don’t view him as a better player than Bates. If someone does think he’s better than Bates I would love to be convinced. Please enlighten me. I’m seeing a lot of dislikes to my opinion on McGovern and Bates but no responses. 

18 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m going to be royally pissed if Torrence isn’t starting this year. The kid is massive and played against the highest level of competition in college. If they can’t get him in the lineup as a rookie at OG for heaven’s sake there’s something seriously wrong with the player development staff at OBD. 

I mean Ford started immediately and we immediately wanted him out. I feel very confident he’ll win the job but no reason to just hand it to him. 

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

 

I mean Ford started immediately and we immediately wanted him out. I feel very confident he’ll win the job but no reason to just hand it to him. 

You’ll notice that I didn’t say they should just ‘hand it to him’. My comment is about the talent evaluation staff at OBD. Seems to me they should be able to spot a semi-decent OG when they see one. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

You’ll notice that I didn’t say they should just ‘hand it to him’. My comment is about the talent evaluation staff at OBD. Seems to me they should be able to spot a semi-decent OG when they see one. 

I’m not sure who makes this decision. There’s been multiple blunders on the interior OL over the last few years with different OC’s and OL coaches.

[Dr. Who]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I should’ve worded it better. Terrible starting LG. Or below average starting LG. Whatever sounds better.

 

He’s kind of the opposite of Saffold in a way. Saffold was a better run blocker than pass blocker. McGovern is a better pass blocker than run blocker. But he’s a reserve level OG IMO. Not someone you sign and consider him a locked in starter. 
 

He is an upgrade over Saffold IMO, but I don’t view him as a better player than Bates. If someone does think he’s better than Bates I would love to be convinced. Please enlighten me. I’m seeing a lot of dislikes to my opinion on McGovern and Bates but no responses. 

I mean Ford started immediately and we immediately wanted him out. I feel very confident he’ll win the job but no reason to just hand it to him. 

They certainly spent money on McGovern as if they have him evaluated a lot higher than you have. If he is the player you think, why sign him at all when you already have Bates on the team? I don't claim to be an expert, certainly not with regards to olinemen who one typically notices more often than not when they fail which has to be a miserable aspect of the position. I normally rely on @MrEpsYtown and @GunnerBill for establishing a baseline for my own amateur judgments. My guess has been that McGovern is a capable starter type by their lights with better pass protection capacity than Saffold which is not a hard bar to beat. I'm willing to wait and see if they are right.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

They certainly spent money on McGovern as if they have him evaluated a lot higher than you have. If he is the player you think, why sign him at all when you already have Bates on the team? I don't claim to be an expert, certainly not with regards to olinemen who one typically notices more often than not when they fail which has to be a miserable aspect of the position. I normally rely on @MrEpsYtown and @GunnerBill for establishing a baseline for my own amateur judgments. My guess has been that McGovern is a capable starter type by their lights with better pass protection capacity than Saffold which is not a hard bar to beat. I'm willing to wait and see if they are right.  

He can start. There’s a lot of bad starting OL in the NFL. He’s just not someone you sign and consider the position fixed.

 

He’s a lot like Bates. He can play RG, C, and LG. I’m sure the Bills like that versatility. I think the signing was as much for now as it was for the future. The future could be now if the cut Morse post June 1st and save $6 million.

 

I think the Bills view McGovern, Bates, and Torrence as their future IOL. 
 

 

[Dr. Who]

1 minute ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

He can start. There’s a lot of bad starting OL in the NFL. He’s just not someone you sign and consider the position fixed.

 

He’s a lot like Bates. He can play RG, C, and LG. I’m sure the Bills like that versatility. I think the signing was as much for now as it was for the future. The future could be now if the cut Morse post June 1st and save $6 million.

 

I think the Bills view McGovern, Bates, and Torrence as their future IOL. 
 

 

I personally hope Morse has a few years left in him, but that's a plausible take.

[MJS]

Doyle could start on the PUP list.

[SCBills]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I should’ve worded it better. Terrible starting LG. Or below average starting LG. Whatever sounds better.

 

He’s kind of the opposite of Saffold in a way. Saffold was a better run blocker than pass blocker. McGovern is a better pass blocker than run blocker. But he’s a reserve level OG IMO. Not someone you sign and consider him a locked in starter. 
 

He is an upgrade over Saffold IMO, but I don’t view him as a better player than Bates. If someone does think he’s better than Bates I would love to be convinced. Please enlighten me. I’m seeing a lot of dislikes to my opinion on McGovern and Bates but no responses. 

I mean Ford started immediately and we immediately wanted him out. I feel very confident he’ll win the job but no reason to just hand it to him. 

 

From everything I've heard about McGovern, he's an average/above-average pass blocker and a below average run blocker. 

 

However, it seems he was never really a fit for the Cowboys run scheme, so the hope is he still has some upward trajectory as a young(ish) player, and will improve in a different scheme. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

From everything I've heard about McGovern, he's an average/above-average pass blocker and a below average run blocker. 

 

However, it seems he was never really a fit for the Cowboys run scheme, so the hope is he still has some upward trajectory as a young(ish) player, and will improve in a different scheme. 

Definitely has upside. I really like Bates’ game though. So when I see him on the bench I just don’t get it. He was very good the 2nd half of last year. Sitting for McGovern, at least right now, doesn’t make sense. If McGovern wins a competition then OK.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[PrimeTime101]

33 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Definitely has upside. I really like Bates’ game though. So when I see him on the bench I just don’t get it. He was very good the 2nd half of last year. Sitting for McGovern, at least right now, doesn’t make sense. If McGovern wins a competition then OK.

So in 2022 McGovern played all his snaps at center, In fact, He played center going all the way back to 2019 season. In 2018, most of his snaps were RG. 2017 he played a little RG but throughout the last 3+ years, McGovern's best football was at Center.  So many people automatically say Bates is the auto replacement at center and I would argue that McGovern's natural position is Center based on the last 4 years even though they have him as guard. Makes you wonder, Who will be the #1 backup for Center next year? 

 

Bates and McGovern do hang their hats in the 60's with PFF. Bates on the low end and McGovern on the high end. so based on pff numbers and stats. McGovern is the better player. 

 

BUT!

 

To the Bolded, I do also Like Bates play... Like McGovern, Bates is not really good at one thing and bad at another. they both have evened out numbers pass and rush blocking.  Much of this is going to depend on how good Cyrus is out of the gate.

 

to the second Bolded? It is going to be one hell of a fun competition to watch and may I say... we needed stuff competition at guard positions for a long time now.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

13 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

So in 2022 McGovern played all his snaps at center, In fact, He played center going all the way back to 2019 season. In 2018, most of his snaps were RG. 2017 he played a little RG but throughout the last 3+ years, McGovern's best football was at Center.  So many people automatically say Bates is the auto replacement at center and I would argue that McGovern's natural position is Center based on the last 4 years even though they have him as guard. Makes you wonder, Who will be the #1 backup for Center next year? 

 

Bates and McGovern do hang their hats in the 60's with PFF. Bates on the low end and McGovern on the high end. so based on pff numbers and stats. McGovern is the better player. 

 

BUT!

 

To the Bolded, I do also Like Bates play... Like McGovern, Bates is not really good at one thing and bad at another. they both have evened out numbers pass and rush blocking.  Much of this is going to depend on how good Cyrus is out of the gate.

 

to the second Bolded? It is going to be one hell of a fun competition to watch and may I say... we needed stuff competition at guard positions for a long time now.  

Can you post PFF on McGovern and Bates? Not the end all but I do appreciate their work. 

[pennstate10]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I should’ve worded it better. Terrible starting LG. Or below average starting LG. Whatever sounds better.

 

He’s kind of the opposite of Saffold in a way. Saffold was a better run blocker than pass blocker. McGovern is a better pass blocker than run blocker. But he’s a reserve level OG IMO. Not someone you sign and consider him a locked in starter. 
 

He is an upgrade over Saffold IMO, but I don’t view him as a better player than Bates. If someone does think he’s better than Bates I would love to be convinced. Please enlighten me. I’m seeing a lot of dislikes to my opinion on McGovern and Bates but no responses. 

I mean Ford started immediately and we immediately wanted him out. I feel very confident he’ll win the job but no reason to just hand it to him. 

As a long time PSU fan, I watched all of Bates and McGoverns games, and have watched Bates games with the Bills. 
 

In contrast to what’s been stated in this thread, Bates played guard his first couple years at PSU, and was excellent. They kicked him out to RT and then LT because they had no tackles. It was clear to many observers that Bates was a better guard than tackle. His feet and. Athleticism are good, but arms are too short. 
 

McG played guard and center at PSU. Back then, he was better in pass pro than run blocking. Of course, PSU was running this goofy zone read and RPO offense at the time where the strategy seemed to be to allow the DT to blow up the mesh points. 
 

My thinking is that Bills signed McG and Bates to be starting guards. But when Torrence became available, they modified that plan. Depending on how quickly Torrence develops, I see Bates at LG and Torrence at RG, with McG being first IOL backup. I think Bates is a better overall guard than McG, and that Bates is better at LG than RG. Not really sure why. Maybe having Dawkins next to him helps. 
 

Finally, it wouldn’t surprise me if Bills 5 yr plan is Bates, McG, Torrence from left to right. 
 

Finally, given the rate at which OL are injured, Bills would be nuts to trade away either of these 2 guys. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by pennstate10
Clarify

[PrimeTime101]

42 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Can you post PFF on McGovern and Bates? Not the end all but I do appreciate their work. 

Sure I will keep it simple

 

Bates

OVERALL 61.8

RB 59.0

PB 61.5

 

McGovern

OVERALL 69.6

RB 69.7

PB 69.5

 

please keep in mind.. again.. last 3-4 years McGovern has lived at the center position.

 

soooooooooo

 

Just for giggles and.. this is going to shock you... "Brace Yourself"

 

Morse 2022

OVERALL 61.4

RB 57.3

PB 67.1

 

Morse 2021

OVERALL 63.4

RB 60

PB 69.9

 

Morse 2020

OVERALL 65.8

RB 63.8

PB 71.6

 

Notice Morse Yearly decline?

 

 

Edited May 8, 2023 by PrimeTime101

[Buffalo_Stampede]

17 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Sure I will keep it simple

 

Bates

OVERALL 61.8

RB 59.0

PB 61.5

 

McGovern

OVERALL 69.6

RB 69.7

PB 69.5

 

please keep in mind.. again.. last 3-4 years McGovern has lived at the center position.

 

soooooooooo

 

Just for giggles and.. this is going to shock you... "Brace Yourself"

 

Morse 2022

OVERALL 61.4

RB 57.3

PB 67.1

 

Morse 2021

OVERALL 63.4

RB 60

PB 69.9

 

Morse 2020

OVERALL 65.8

RB 63.8

PB 71.6

 

Notice Morse Yearly decline?

 

 

I think maybe the player to watch this summer if Torrence is a starter could be Morse.

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I think maybe the player to watch this summer if Torrence is a starter could be Morse.

Yea I mean, things can change quickly. Too many people on these boards have McGovern locked at Guard where I actually think at this point McGovern is a slightly better center... Note.. the most likely player to get wacked on the head on the line is Center. Maybe just MAYBE, Morse would be better suited at guard this year?  keep in mind... I think Morse still has center locked.. but early on players are checked out at many positions to see what they are best at! You just never know... 

 

Here is what i love... they are NOT messing around with the interior OL this year... Someone gets loose at the Tackle position, JA can roll out... Someone gets loose at Tackle and Guard? no where to go...  Cyrus Torrence is the question mark. IF he starts at Guard day one and he is as good as advertised? competition could very well slowly heat up at center. 

 

Just a fun conversation to have yes?  BTW.. I feel like I could do a 2 hour pod with you easy lol. Nice conversations we have  

[pennstate10]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Sure I will keep it simple

 

Bates

OVERALL 61.8

RB 59.0

PB 61.5

 

McGovern

OVERALL 69.6

RB 69.7

PB 69.5

 

please keep in mind.. again.. last 3-4 years McGovern has lived at the center position.

 

soooooooooo

 

Just for giggles and.. this is going to shock you... "Brace Yourself"

 

Morse 2022

OVERALL 61.4

RB 57.3

PB 67.1

 

Morse 2021

OVERALL 63.4

RB 60

PB 69.9

 

Morse 2020

OVERALL 65.8

RB 63.8

PB 71.6

 

Notice Morse Yearly decline?

 

 

Are you sure those are the numbers for Bills Connor McGovern?  There are two Connor McGoverns, one who played for Cowboys->Bills, the other played for Broncos->Jets. 
 

PFF lists just one Connor McGovern at center. The Jets player. They list the Bills Connor McGovern at guard. 

[PrimeTime101]

On 4/29/2023 at 3:17 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

Dawkins - McGovern - Morse - Torrence - Brown

Quess    - Boettger    - Bates  - Edwards -  Doyle

(Doyle?) - (Broeker?)                                    (Gouraige?)

 

edit:

Broeker either PS, or in Boettger's spot if Beane pull's off a trade.

I dont know enough about UDFA OT Richard Gouraige yet. He might be able to replace Doyle at backup RT, and Doyle moves to backup LT. He might make the PS. He might just be camp fodder.

 

That right side could be REAL NASTY if those dudes get their stuff together and develop.

 

Or does Bates or Edwards have a chance of starting over Torrence, and McGovern plays RG?

 

 

If push came to shove... I still believe Bates would move to guard and McGovern would take over Center if Morse was injured. 

1 minute ago, pennstate10 said:

Are you sure those are the numbers for Bills Connor McGovern?  There are two Connor McGoverns, one who played for Cowboys->Bills, the other played for Broncos->Jets. 
 

PFF lists just one Connor McGovern at center. The Jets player. They list the Bills Connor McGovern at guard. 

oh DAYM HA HA HA

 

1 minute ago, pennstate10 said:

Are you sure those are the numbers for Bills Connor McGovern?  There are two Connor McGoverns, one who played for Cowboys->Bills, the other played for Broncos->Jets. 
 

PFF lists just one Connor McGovern at center. The Jets player. They list the Bills Connor McGovern at guard. 

awe man all that work. I give up lol

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Sure I will keep it simple

 

Bates

OVERALL 61.8

RB 59.0

PB 61.5

 

McGovern

OVERALL 69.6

RB 69.7

PB 69.5

 

please keep in mind.. again.. last 3-4 years McGovern has lived at the center position.

 

soooooooooo

 

Just for giggles and.. this is going to shock you... "Brace Yourself"

 

Morse 2022

OVERALL 61.4

RB 57.3

PB 67.1

 

Morse 2021

OVERALL 63.4

RB 60

PB 69.9

 

Morse 2020

OVERALL 65.8

RB 63.8

PB 71.6

 

Notice Morse Yearly decline?

 

 

 

I mean that pretty much matches the eye test on all 3 players.

[NewEra]

8 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Not as annoying as people thinking Bates was bad last year or not one of our top 5. The 2nd half of last season he was our best lineman.

 

Sometimes I don’t think fans watch their own team.

 

We definitely needed OG help and competition but we also needed OT competition. I wish we could go back and sign an OT instead of McGovern. 

Being one of our best offensive lineman isn’t saying much.  I didn’t think he was better than Dawkins or Morse.  That leaves him being better than Saffold and Brown.  You were better than those guys. 
 

I like Bates and I’m not condoning trading him.  I’m not saying he’s bad.  I think he’s sufficient and his versatility gives him more value.  I hope they give him a shot @ RT.  
 

I don’t think he’ll be better than Torrance.  If he is, I think we made a mistake drafting Torrance.  I really hope our OGs are mcgovern and torrance. Bates as RT or the backup at almost every position and possibly taking over for Morse after next season.  

[SoCal Deek]

4 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I’m not sure who makes this decision. There’s been multiple blunders on the interior OL over the last few years with different OC’s and OL coaches.

The coaches make the decisions about who to start and play. The head scratcher would be how they would select Torrence with such a high pick in April and then decide not to play him just a few months later. OG is one of those positions where you should be able to step right in on Day One. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

Bates is going to make the roster.

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Being one of our best offensive lineman isn’t saying much.  I didn’t think he was better than Dawkins or Morse.  That leaves him being better than Saffold and Brown.  You were better than those guys. 
 

I like Bates and I’m not condoning trading him.  I’m not saying he’s bad.  I think he’s sufficient and his versatility gives him more value.  I hope they give him a shot @ RT.  
 

I don’t think he’ll be better than Torrance.  If he is, I think we made a mistake drafting Torrance.  I really hope our OGs are mcgovern and torrance. Bates as RT or the backup at almost every position and possibly taking over for Morse after next season.  

I’m pretty sure that Torrence and McGovern are starters with Bates as the first sub for all three interior positions.  I think Torrence has to have a really bad camp to not get a starting job and I don’t see that happening.  
 

It seems like a forgone conclusion that Brown is the starting RT.  The Bills have doubled and tripled down on his this offseason.  They passed on drafted and signing a veteran RT to push him.   The only way Bates played RT is if both Brown and Quessenberry get hurt or injured 

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I’m pretty sure that Torrence and McGovern are starters with Bates as the first sub for all three interior positions.  I think Torrence has to have a really bad camp to not get a starting job and I don’t see that happening.  
 

It seems like a forgone conclusion that Brown is the starting RT.  The Bills have doubled and tripled down on his this offseason.  They passed on drafted and signing a veteran RT to push him.   The only way Bates played RT is if both Brown and Quessenberry get hurt or injured 

I agree with all of this.

 

it’s just a shame that they didn’t bring in any competition for brown.  He’s been nothing but terrible in pass protection.  As I’ve stated previously- this decision might turn out to cost this regime their jobs.  
 

rd 1 of the playoffs- close game- brown gets wrecked and we lose partly due to his poor play. It’s a fireable offense after watching this guy play football for 2 years.  He was drafted with the same pick as Terrell Bernard.  No one is expecting him to be named starter and the Bills have already drafted his replacement a year later with the same pick.  
 

Man, I REALLY hope they’re right about Brown.  I see his potential too…. But show me the baby

[The Jokeman]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Bates is going to make the roster.

Unless Beane thinks he can get someone for him that helps other weak spots. As to me we have 4 starting caliber OGs on roster in Bates, McGovern, Edwards and Torrence. I'd move one out for competition at OT or a young DT under contract. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I mean that pretty much matches the eye test on all 3 players.

I feel like Bates was better than that grade. 

[RoyBatty is alive]

20 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

Unless Beane thinks he can get someone for him that helps other weak spots. As to me we have 4 starting caliber OGs on roster in Bates, McGovern, Edwards and Torrence. I'd move one out for competition at OT or a young DT under contract. 

Maybe, after that Wyatt Teller fiasco he is going to be very reluctant to move on from Bates.  Bates does have incredible versatility but he has been around for a long time now and has a limited ceiling, when we traded Teller he hadn't come close to his ceiling.

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

I feel like Bates was better than that grade. 

 

Meh. I think a lot of Bills fans are way too high on him

[BillsFanForever19]

11 hours ago, freddyjj said:

Some clarification please on  2 points.  Wasn't it the Bears who tried to sign Bates as an RFA?

 

I know Bates can, and has, played C for the Bills in a regular season game.  Has Boettger as well?  

 

Yes, you are correct. It was Chicago and not Minnesota. Not sure why my brain mixed them up. I edited the post.

 

I do remember putting Boettger in at Center before in a pinch sometimes within the 2018-2021 seasons. Though as my Minnesota to Chicago brainfart would show, I don't know how well my memory can be trusted.

 

It's hard to find info on what position on the line he played in each snap and game he played. But as this article states, he does have Center versatility.

 

https://billswire.usatoday.com/2023/03/05/buffalo-bills-re-sign-ike-boettger-one-year/

[JohnNord]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

I agree with all of this.

 

it’s just a shame that they didn’t bring in any competition for brown.  He’s been nothing but terrible in pass protection.  As I’ve stated previously- this decision might turn out to cost this regime their jobs.  
 

rd 1 of the playoffs- close game- brown gets wrecked and we lose partly due to his poor play. It’s a fireable offense after watching this guy play football for 2 years.  He was drafted with the same pick as Terrell Bernard.  No one is expecting him to be named starter and the Bills have already drafted his replacement a year later with the same pick.  
 

Man, I REALLY hope they’re right about Brown.  I see his potential too…. But show me the baby

It’s easy to forget that in the famous :13 game versus KC, Brown was destroyed by Melvin Ingram on 4th and 8 on the final Bills TD drive.   It basically took good luck and a Herculean effort by Josh to juke him and scramble for a first down.  
 

Had it not been for Josh’s scrambling ability, the game couldn’t easily been over on that play thanks the very poor rep from Brown.  
 

To make matters worse, he played bad for most of the season last year.  I just don’t hold the same optimism that Beane does for Brown.  

[NewEra]

Just now, JohnNord said:

It’s easy to forget that in the famous :13 game versus KC, Brown was destroyed by Melvin Ingram on 4th and 8 on the final Bills TD drive.   It basically took good luck and a Herculean effort by Josh to juke him and scramble for a first down.  
 

Had it not been for Josh’s scrambling ability, the game couldn’t easily been over on that play thanks the very poor rep from Brown.  
 

To make matters worse, he played bad for most of the season last year.  I just don’t hold the same optimism that Beane does for Brown.  

That play will never leave memory.  The most important play of his life to date….and he didn’t even get out of his stance by the time a 32 year old DE was already by him.  Josh to his rescue.  Just feels like he’s going to get 17 killed one of these days.  
 

I agree 💯 we add 26 interior offensive lineman and only resigned the terrible Quess, which gift wraps the RT job to him, rather than making him earn it.  Which is why I hope they give Edwards or Bates a shot at RT.   A competition would only up his game if he is who they think he is.  

[billsfan89]

6 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

It’s easy to forget that in the famous :13 game versus KC, Brown was destroyed by Melvin Ingram on 4th and 8 on the final Bills TD drive.   It basically took good luck and a Herculean effort by Josh to juke him and scramble for a first down.  
 

Had it not been for Josh’s scrambling ability, the game couldn’t easily been over on that play thanks the very poor rep from Brown.  
 

To make matters worse, he played bad for most of the season last year.  I just don’t hold the same optimism that Beane does for Brown.  

I am not sure why they didn’t bring in Better competition for Brown. Queese is a decent backup but nothing more than that. I hope that in addition to adding a vet the McBeane goes after a swing tackle in late stage free agency. As there really isn’t a backup for Dawkins and more competition at RT would be a bonus. 
 

I get the idea that Brown with a healthy off season can regain his form a bit and develop more but more options and depths in case that doesn’t happen would be nice 

[blacklabel]

What's it look like? It appears to be a collection of absurdly large human beings. They'll pick the ones who are best at not letting other absurdly large humans get past them. 

 

I really don't know how it's going to shake out. Lotta people seem to think McGovern is slotted in as a starter from day one but I'd assume he'll have to beat out Ryan Bates, who I think does better on the left but that's also McGovern's natural spot. Torrence is a high end draft pick who's gonna get plenty of chances to win the RG spot. Is Bates odd man out and plays a backup role this year and maybe takes over for Morse next season? Dawkins and Brown are the tackles. The competitions to watch will be for both guard spots. 

[billsfan89]

2 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

What's it look like? It appears to be a collection of absurdly large human beings. They'll pick the ones who are best at not letting other absurdly large humans get past them. 

 

I really don't know how it's going to shake out. Lotta people seem to think McGovern is slotted in as a starter from day one but I'd assume he'll have to beat out Ryan Bates, who I think does better on the left but that's also McGovern's natural spot. Torrence is a high end draft pick who's gonna get plenty of chances to win the RG spot. Is Bates odd man out and plays a backup role this year and maybe takes over for Morse next season? Dawkins and Brown are the tackles. The competitions to watch will be for both guard spots. 

I think in the end the McBeane wants tremendously improved Oline depth and that hopefully means Torrence being plug and play at RG and McGovern being the above average starter he was signed to be. Then that moves Bates to first Oline off the bench at all three interior positions and possibly RT and maybe even LT. 
 

Add in Edwards as a solid backup along the guard spots and Queese As a decent backup RT and you have three decent to good backups off the bench. Definitely deeper than last year

[Dr. Who]

20 minutes ago, NewEra said:

That play will never leave memory.  The most important play of his life to date….and he didn’t even get out of his stance by the time a 32 year old DE was already by him.  Josh to his rescue.  Just feels like he’s going to get 17 killed one of these days.  
 

I agree 💯 we add 26 interior offensive lineman and only resigned the terrible Quess, which gift wraps the RT job to him, rather than making him earn it.  Which is why I hope they give Edwards or Bates a shot at RT.   A competition would only up his game if he is who they think he is.  

At this point, that is perhaps the most likely chance, though neither Edwards nor Bates seems like a strong RT alternative to me. It's still possible somebody gets cut that can be brought in as competition or that Doyle recovers from injury and ends up a viable alternative. Maybe the UDFA Gouraige that played with Torrence is a nice surprise. Someone mentioned bringing in Cameron Fleming who is still a FA. To me, not bringing in someone as better competition for Brown is hubris, nearly inexplicable, the one glaring weakness in an otherwise strong offseason for Beane -- and naturally, I hope Brown turns the corner and is great. 

[Sierra Foothills]

17 hours ago, pennstate10 said:

As a long time PSU fan, I watched all of Bates and McGoverns games, and have watched Bates games with the Bills. 
 

In contrast to what’s been stated in this thread, Bates played guard his first couple years at PSU, and was excellent. They kicked him out to RT and then LT because they had no tackles. It was clear to many observers that Bates was a better guard than tackle. His feet and. Athleticism are good, but arms are too short. 
 

McG played guard and center at PSU. Back then, he was better in pass pro than run blocking. Of course, PSU was running this goofy zone read and RPO offense at the time where the strategy seemed to be to allow the DT to blow up the mesh points. 
 

My thinking is that Bills signed McG and Bates to be starting guards. But when Torrence became available, they modified that plan. Depending on how quickly Torrence develops, I see Bates at LG and Torrence at RG, with McG being first IOL backup. I think Bates is a better overall guard than McG, and that Bates is better at LG than RG. Not really sure why. Maybe having Dawkins next to him helps. 
 

Finally, it wouldn’t surprise me if Bills 5 yr plan is Bates, McG, Torrence from left to right. 
 

Finally, given the rate at which OL are injured, Bills would be nuts to trade away either of these 2 guys. 

 

Good stuff.

 

Thank you.

 

[GETTOTHE50]

The bills signed McGovern to too big of a contract for him not to start and if Torrence is as good as advertised, then he should start too.

 

Bates will be the number one back up. His best position is center though. Too bad his worst position is probably right tackle, but I’d be willing to try him there if spencer doesn’t improve.