Sunday ticket advance prices released

[SoMAn]

14 minutes ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

I switched to YTTV around 30 months ago and have been very happy with it (mostly).

 

You can share with I believe five family members. I signed up at my father's house in Rochester. I also had it at my apartment outside of Syracuse and my house in California. I log in with my own login for six different TVs and have recently started switching to using a Firestick on some because it seems to stream better via Firestick than via my Visio TVs. My father, wife, daughter (in Wisconsin) and son (in San Diego) all use YTTV on my account. The only thing is, every three months I need to log into each account from Rochester. So, for my son and daughter, I had set them up with a new gmail account only to use as their YTTV account so I don't get their emails and calendar notices. I have all of the accounts on my phone and I log in when I'm at my father's house.

 

Someone above had mentioned that you need a good internet connection. For my apartment outside Syracuse, I have the lowest plan that Verizon offered and I had fantastic service. I actually had much worse reception at my father's house which had a faster internet. I think that was based on the TV and that's why I got a Firestick for there. Unfortunately, I got this after the season was over so I couldn't do a one to one comparison. But, at his house, even though I had no issues with Prime Video for movies or shows, for NFL games they were completely unwatchable and in some cases would just freeze up completely using the Visio Smart TV. With my laptop, I watched with no problems. As I said, my expectation was the Firestick would improve the ability to watch on his TV without needing to cast from my laptop.

Thanks for the insight. So, the next question is regarding the technical side if it. 
So, if you have different people in different states using a single account, how does that affect the local station availability?  Obviously, if your account is tied to a Rochester zip code, you can get local stations there. But I’m guessing the folks in California aren’t getting those local stations. Do they get any locals, even in their area? I can’t see how they could. 
It should be clear that some of us out of state fans might be thinking about setting up an account with someone in WNY (where all games are shown) and accessing the games without paying the Sunday Ticket fee.  
The Sunday ticket cost is actually a decent value, though it’s probably only needed here in Atlanta for maybe 8-10 games, with the expectation that there will be a fair number of nationally televised games and some others shown regionally, depending on what the networks believe will have the most viewership that week. 
Even at $350, it still beats dropping a wad of cash in a noisy sports bar where the server doesn’t have enough sense to wait until a TV timeout to see if you need anything else. 😊

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, Matt_In_NH said:

Dude the whole country is really only interested in single game.  That is why Thai gets interest.   You think they are gonna sell you a bills game for $5/ week?

 

Lol what?

[jethro_tull]

Thanks for the tip! 

[fergie's ire]

• I use SlingTV instead of YTTV.  It's cheaper (40 bucks a month).  You have to choose between a package that includes ESPN which can only be used on one device at a time, and a package with NFL Network that can be watched on multiple devices.  What's nice is you can switch packages any time instantly and there is no fee.  So, if you like NFL Network and have that every day but there is a game that is only on ESPN, you can switch to the ESPN for that day only (or vice versa).  If you want Rezone channel, that's like an extra 10 dollars a month.
•  

[ColoradoBills]

I find it interesting that the "early bird" discounts are up June 6th (just over 6 weeks away), and no advertisement is on streaming or

cable TV services.  Because of this board I have told friends about it because most didn't even know the pricing options.

 

Going to be a lot of fans shocked when they have to pay $489.00 for NFL Package with Redzone starting June 7th.

 

I personally am running out of time deciding if I dump Sling and go to YTTV or just by the package alone.

10 minutes ago, fergie's ire said:

• I use SlingTV instead of YTTV.  It's cheaper (40 bucks a month).  You have to choose between a package that includes ESPN which can only be used on one device at a time, and a package with NFL Network that can be watched on multiple devices.  What's nice is you can switch packages any time instantly and there is no fee.  So, if you like NFL Network and have that every day but there is a game that is only on ESPN, you can switch to the ESPN for that day only (or vice versa).  If you want Rezone channel, that's like an extra 10 dollars a month.
•  

 

You can actually do that?  I have Sling Blue for the year and have added the Orange (for ESPN) during the NFL season.  I got ESPN+ from a

friend for Hockey and other sports.

 

I had no idea you could switch just for the day to get ESPN.  You have done this, and it works?

[DQW87]

Thinking seriously of switching to YTTV from DTV streaming.  Just wanted to know from anyone using YTTV now of anything they don't like about it?  Is the NFL Network available on YTTV? Is there any major channels they don't get? I think it would almost be the same price for me to get YTTV with the ST included at the early discount as it was for DTV Streaming.  DTV Streaming cost $10 for unlimited cloud DVR as YTTV is free.

[nucci]

21 minutes ago, DQW87 said:

Thinking seriously of switching to YTTV from DTV streaming.  Just wanted to know from anyone using YTTV now of anything they don't like about it?  Is the NFL Network available on YTTV? Is there any major channels they don't get? I think it would almost be the same price for me to get YTTV with the ST included at the early discount as it was for DTV Streaming.  DTV Streaming cost $10 for unlimited cloud DVR as YTTV is free.

I dropped DTV a few months ago for youtube. I really like it and the cost savings are really great. No box just a cable for internet but I have 1 TV that is wireless and works fine. I think no A&E and History channel. No MLB network or NHL network. Yes to NFL Network. I miss those but not a dealbreaker. dvr is great also.

[fergie's ire]

1 hour ago, ColoradoBills said:

I find it interesting that the "early bird" discounts are up June 6th (just over 6 weeks away), and no advertisement is on streaming or

cable TV services.  Because of this board I have told friends about it because most didn't even know the pricing options.

 

Going to be a lot of fans shocked when they have to pay $489.00 for NFL Package with Redzone starting June 7th.

 

I personally am running out of time deciding if I dump Sling and go to YTTV or just by the package alone.

 

You can actually do that?  I have Sling Blue for the year and have added the Orange (for ESPN) during the NFL season.  I got ESPN+ from a

friend for Hockey and other sports.

 

I had no idea you could switch just for the day to get ESPN.  You have done this, and it works?

I have.  I have Hulu with ESPN+ so I didn't need ESPN for just Sportscenter.  I had the other (blue I think?).  Most games are available on plus, but I think it was the first game (Rams) that was not.  So, I just went online to my account settings and switched my package from Blue to Orange and then went back to Blue the next day.  I had actually messaged with customer service and they said I could, in theory, change back and forth every day.  Since the monthly charge is the same and it switches instantly (unlike other subscriptions that make you play out the month), it just stays the 40 buck charge.

Just now, fergie's ire said:

I have.  I have Hulu with ESPN+ so I didn't need ESPN for just Sportscenter.  I had the other (blue I think?).  Most games are available on plus, but I think it was the first game (Rams) that was not.  So, I just went online to my account settings and switched my package from Blue to Orange and then went back to Blue the next day.  I had actually messaged with customer service and they said I could, in theory, change back and forth every day.  Since the monthly charge is the same and it switches instantly (unlike other subscriptions that make you play out the month), it just stays the 40 buck charge.

Actually, just remembered it was the second game that was on ESPN that was that weird double header and the other game was on plus, not the Bills.

[julian]

God bless DAZN

[Billz4ever]

1 hour ago, DQW87 said:

Thinking seriously of switching to YTTV from DTV streaming.  Just wanted to know from anyone using YTTV now of anything they don't like about it?  Is the NFL Network available on YTTV? Is there any major channels they don't get? I think it would almost be the same price for me to get YTTV with the ST included at the early discount as it was for DTV Streaming.  DTV Streaming cost $10 for unlimited cloud DVR as YTTV is free.

 

No real complaints here.  Took a little getting used to the layout coming from cable, but it's not a huge learning curve.  

 

FYI, if you have T-Mobile for a cell carrier, I believe they're still running their promotion of giving you $10 off per mo. for 12 months with YTTV.  Not for sure they are, but they still were last month.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Alphadawg7]

8 hours ago, Xwnyer said:

YouTube TV is sending out a ST promo YTTV users can sign up for 249 (advertised as 100$ off) user who just want plain ole ST a without a subscription to YTTV is 349 (advertised as 100$ off).  Offer available til a June 6.

 

My wife works for Spectrum Sports in marketing, so we get Spectrum for free as a result and just use the Spectrum App on my AppleTV  to watch TV if we aren't using another streaming app.  

 

So I have no need to get a YTTV subscription...BUT...I do watch a ton of content on actual YouTube and the YouTube app (not YouTube TV).  Especially poker, cooking videos, comedy clips, etc.  Its kind of my go to in bed at night when going to sleep.  But I hate all the ads...so wondering does anyone know if I subscribe to Ad Free YouTube which is $15 a month if that qualifies for the subscription discount of $249?  Or does it have to be the cable package replacer of YouTube TV which is much more expensive obviously.  

[Billz4ever]

5 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

My wife works for Spectrum Sports in marketing, so we get Spectrum for free as a result and just use the Spectrum App on my AppleTV  to watch TV if we aren't using another streaming app.  

 

So I have no need to get a YTTV subscription...BUT...I do watch a ton of content on actual YouTube and the YouTube app (not YouTube TV).  Especially poker, cooking videos, comedy clips, etc.  Its kind of my go to in bed at night when going to sleep.  But I hate all the ads...so wondering does anyone know if I subscribe to Ad Free YouTube which is $15 a month if that qualifies for the subscription discount of $249?  Or does it have to be the cable package replacer of YouTube TV which is much more expensive obviously.  

 

No, you must be a YTTV subscriber to get the $249 or $289 prices.  YouTube Premium doesn't qualify. You're still getting the $100 off if you sign up now through June 6th on all the plans.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Billz4ever

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, Billz4ever said:

 

No, you must be a YTTV subscriber to get the discount.  YouTube Premium doesn't qualify. You're still getting the $100 off if you sign up now through June 6th on all the plans.

 

Thats what I figured.  Ive been trying to talk myself into the $15 a month ad free YouTube premium, but $15 to remove an ad I can skip after 5 seconds seems steep.  But if it had gotten me the discount on Sunday Ticket, then boom, value met and I was all over that ha.  

 

Guess I will just have to keep skipping the stupid ads lol

[Billz4ever]

3 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Thats what I figured.  Ive been trying to talk myself into the $15 a month ad free YouTube premium, but $15 to remove an ad I can skip after 5 seconds seems steep.  But if it had gotten me the discount on Sunday Ticket, then boom, value met and I was all over that ha.  

 

Guess I will just have to keep skipping the stupid ads lol

 

I have Premium as well but I've had it for years, so I was locked in at $10/mo.  I thought it's $12 a month or $120 a year now?

[Alphadawg7]

10 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

 

I have Premium as well but I've had it for years, so I was locked in at $10/mo.  I thought it's $12 a month or $120 a year now?

 

I checked the other day and it was $15

[newcam2012]

6 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

One thing I don't see being discussed much in here is that to even get any YouTube videos (and be able to play them smoothly), you need to have a good internet connection. Sssoooo, when talking about getting NFL football on YT, in addition to the $$$ you pay to YT, you also should figure in what your internet provider costs are....no decent internet provider (good download speed) means no good NFL football. No internet provider at all means no NFL games on your TV. Sure you could try to watch them through "over the air" signals delivered to your phone or tablet....Good Luck with that!

Great info here. I can confirm that this is true. My brother had a so so internet provider with decent speed. He was getting big time lags on Thursday night football. He switched providers and had better speed. Of course, it comes with a bigger price. 

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I checked the other day and it was $15

I'd check again.

 

It doesn't show me how much it costs to sign up because I'm already a member, but other recent sources I've checked say it's $11.99/mo or $119.99 for the year.  

 

That's only $10 a month for the annual.

 

For some reason, it says it's $16/mo if you sign up through the iOS app, which I guess is because Apple wants a cut.

 

https://www.idownloadblog.com/2023/04/11/new-youtube-premium-features-shareplay-enhanced-1080p-quality-mobile-queue-smart-downloads/

[Alphadawg7]

14 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

I'd check again.

 

It doesn't show me how much it costs to sign up because I'm already a member, but other recent sources I've checked say it's $11.99/mo or $119.99 for the year.  

 

That's only $10 a month for the annual.

 

For some reason, it says it's $16/mo if you sign up through the iOS app, which I guess is because Apple wants a cut.

 

https://www.idownloadblog.com/2023/04/11/new-youtube-premium-features-shareplay-enhanced-1080p-quality-mobile-queue-smart-downloads/

 

That is probably it, I think I checked through my app on my appleTV when I looked it up.  It was like $15.99 or something.  Thanks, I will check that link out

[PetermansRedemption]

1 hour ago, julian said:

God bless DAZN

Is this a streaming service? Does it offer ESPN?

[CA OC Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, SoMAn said:

Thanks for the insight. So, the next question is regarding the technical side if it. 
So, if you have different people in different states using a single account, how does that affect the local station availability?  Obviously, if your account is tied to a Rochester zip code, you can get local stations there. But I’m guessing the folks in California aren’t getting those local stations. Do they get any locals, even in their area? I can’t see how they could. 
It should be clear that some of us out of state fans might be thinking about setting up an account with someone in WNY (where all games are shown) and accessing the games without paying the Sunday Ticket fee.  
The Sunday ticket cost is actually a decent value, though it’s probably only needed here in Atlanta for maybe 8-10 games, with the expectation that there will be a fair number of nationally televised games and some others shown regionally, depending on what the networks believe will have the most viewership that week. 
Even at $350, it still beats dropping a wad of cash in a noisy sports bar where the server doesn’t have enough sense to wait until a TV timeout to see if you need anything else. 😊

Local station availability: With my account being in Rochester, everyone gets the Rochester stations regardless of where they are EXCEPT for things that they should not be able to receive out of the area, i.e. I can't use YTTV to watch Bills games when I'm in CA if it's not on local CA TV, instead I'd get a black screen and a notification that the game is blacked out in my current area. Yes, when I first signed up I was hoping that this was a loophole to watch all Bills games while I'm home in CA but no such luck.

 

I also regularly (not always, but often enough) get a question when I log in outside of Rochester asking if I'm travelling or if I live here. You are allowed to change home locations once or twice per year so I always say I'm travelling. YTTV then responds, "Enjoy You Tube TV while you're travelling!" 

[JJGauna]

Does this mean no more Red Zone? That was the best part of football Sunday (when the Bills weren’t playing.)

 

Answered my own question, it’s still around!

Edited April 20, 2023 by JJGauna

[Rock'em Sock'em]

7 hours ago, colin said:

So my question is -- can i get the sunday ticket and no other youtube tv stuff?  if so, will i get all of the nfl games?

 

Thanks

Yes, for $349 before June 6th.  Requires a Sunday Ticket only YTTV account.  Includes support for 2 concurrent viewers.

[stevewin]

11 minutes ago, Rock'em Sock'em said:

Yes, for $349 before June 6th.  Requires a Sunday Ticket only YTTV account.  Includes support for 2 concurrent viewers.

So the optons listed here  https://tv.youtube.com/learn/nflsundayticket/?utm_source=pm&utm_medium=gs&utm_content=txt&utm_campaign=ytnflst&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjOKxtZ-5_gIVpTatBh0Q0waUEAAYASAAEgJ1hvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds are (prices listed are 'Inaugural Offer ends 6/6')

 

- "NFL Sunday Ticket + Youtube TV" = 249 + 72/mo for YTYV

- "NFL Sunday Ticket + NFL RedZone + Youtube TV" = 289 + 72/mo for YTYV

- "NFL Sunday Ticket on Youtube" = 349

- "NFL Sunday Ticket + NFL RedZone on Youtube" = 389

 

I assume the last two "on Youtube" includes no other explicit cost (streamed through free Youtube) - for those of us who just want Sunday Ticket standalone and no Youtube TV

 

[SoMAn]

1 hour ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

Local station availability: With my account being in Rochester, everyone gets the Rochester stations regardless of where they are EXCEPT for things that they should not be able to receive out of the area, i.e. I can't use YTTV to watch Bills games when I'm in CA if it's not on local CA TV, instead I'd get a black screen and a notification that the game is blacked out in my current area. Yes, when I first signed up I was hoping that this was a loophole to watch all Bills games while I'm home in CA but no such luck.

 

I also regularly (not always, but often enough) get a question when I log in outside of Rochester asking if I'm travelling or if I live here. You are allowed to change home locations once or twice per year so I always say I'm travelling. YTTV then responds, "Enjoy You Tube TV while you're travelling!" 

Stupid loopholes-Doh!  😖

thanks again for the info

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

One thing I don't see being discussed much in here is that to even get any YouTube videos (and be able to play them smoothly), you need to have a good internet connection. Sssoooo, when talking about getting NFL football on YT, in addition to the $$$ you pay to YT, you also should figure in what your internet provider costs are....no decent internet provider (good download speed) means no good NFL football. No internet provider at all means no NFL games on your TV. Sure you could try to watch them through "over the air" signals delivered to your phone or tablet....Good Luck with that!

what are you on DSL or something?

 

[Mikie2times]

 

 

[davefan66]

5 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

 

You can get RZ only as part of the YTTV sports pack add-on for $10.99/mo.  

That would be perfect.

[Dr Krentist]

My only concern right now is the lag time. I had read that for other sports, the lag was up to a minute.

[boater]

Youtube suspended my free account. I must have offended a snowflake with one of my comments.

 

What do you think are the odds I'd be able to open a Sunday Ticket subscription, despite my suspended status?

 

I'm guessing it's ll about the money and they'd let me pay for Sunday Ticket.

 

EDIT UPDATE: I just tried to sign up and got all the way through to entering my CC number. So Youtube is all about the dineros, even if you were suspended.

Edited April 20, 2023 by boater

[HurlyBurly51]

30 minutes ago, Dr Krentist said:

My only concern right now is the lag time. I had read that for other sports, the lag was up to a minute.

Gonna make the Game Day Threads even more frenzied than ever!

[Big Blitz]

So what if you order YTTV….get the ticket at “discount.”  
 

Can I cancel YTTV after 1 month but keep the ticket?  

[Billz4ever]

4 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

So what if you order YTTV….get the ticket at “discount.”  
 

Can I cancel YTTV after 1 month but keep the ticket?  

No, your YTTV subscription needs to remain active during the ticket length.

 

You would need to get the non-YTTV version (youtube primetime channel version).

 

That's also $100 off right now, but would cost you $349 without redzone or $389 with.

Edited April 20, 2023 by Billz4ever

[julian]

3 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said:

Is this a streaming service? Does it offer ESPN?

Yeah it’s a service that carries NFL MLB MMA boxing among some other sports. I’m in Canada, not sure it’s offered in the U.S.

 

25 month, 100 bucks for the NFL regular season covers every game and libraries every match offering condensed versions along with full games.

[Xwnyer]

4 hours ago, CA OC Bills Fan said:

Local station availability: With my account being in Rochester, everyone gets the Rochester stations regardless of where they are EXCEPT for things that they should not be able to receive out of the area, i.e. I can't use YTTV to watch Bills games when I'm in CA if it's not on local CA TV, instead I'd get a black screen and a notification that the game is blacked out in my current area. Yes, when I first signed up I was hoping that this was a loophole to watch all Bills games while I'm home in CA but no such luck.

 

I also regularly (not always, but often enough) get a question when I log in outside of Rochester asking if I'm travelling or if I live here. You are allowed to change home locations once or twice per year so I always say I'm travelling. YTTV then responds, "Enjoy You Tube TV while you're travelling!" 

I am hoping loophole exists in spectrum app.  I have a friend who lives in WNY that is gonna let me try his  spectrum account first no national games,

[Alphadawg7]

6 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

I'd check again.

 

It doesn't show me how much it costs to sign up because I'm already a member, but other recent sources I've checked say it's $11.99/mo or $119.99 for the year.  

 

That's only $10 a month for the annual.

 

For some reason, it says it's $16/mo if you sign up through the iOS app, which I guess is because Apple wants a cut.

 

https://www.idownloadblog.com/2023/04/11/new-youtube-premium-features-shareplay-enhanced-1080p-quality-mobile-queue-smart-downloads/

 

So confirmed what happened.  When I go to get youtube premium on my iphone, it automatically opens my youtube app on my iphone to go to sign up.  And when it does, its $15.99 with just a 1 month free trial an no option for a discount by paying annually.

 

BUT...when I go to my computer and go to youtube on my browser, its only $11.99 a month has a 3 month free trial instead of 1.  Plus it has pay annually discount too where on my phone app didn't see a discounted annual option.  So actually only costing me $10 a month by just paying annually.  Thats a big discount from just signing up through my iphone app, plus got 2 more months free.

 

So I got the first 15 months (year plus 3 free trial months) for $120 compared to $238 for the first 15 months had I just signed up through the apple YouTube app...I mean that is a 50% savings different just based on where you sign...crazy different.  For $120, I can get behind that and went ahead and did that!  $10 a month is better than $17 a month.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the price difference bro, appreciate it.

[BillsClinton]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

So confirmed what happened.  When I go to get youtube premium on my iphone, it automatically opens my youtube app on my iphone to go to sign up.  And when it does, its $15.99 with just a 1 month free trial an no option for a discount by paying annually.

 

BUT...when I go to my computer and go to youtube on my browser, its only $11.99 a month has a 3 month free trial instead of 1.  Plus it has pay annually discount too where on my phone app didn't see a discounted annual option.  So actually only costing me $10 a month by just paying annually.  Thats a big discount from just signing up through my iphone app, plus got 2 more months free.

 

So I got the first 15 months (year plus 3 free trial months) for $120 compared to $238 for the first 15 months had I just signed up through the apple YouTube app...I mean that is a 50% savings different just based on where you sign...crazy different.  For $120, I can get behind that and went ahead and did that!  $10 a month is better than $17 a month.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the price difference bro, appreciate it.

 

Yeah basically I think they add a surcharge if you buy it through Apple, since the appstore takes a cut. Definitely subscribe through youtube directly via browser for the actual price. 

 

For what it's worth, I consume a LOT of youtube, and I find premium well worth the price. Not having ads on any of my devices, as well as the ability to download videos for offline consumption on my ipad (useful for traveling) has been worth it. 

[US Egg]

Earlier, I bragged what I thought I paid for my TV sports and movie services compared to the YTTV/NFL package deal.

 

Upon questioning my wife afterwards, I was enlightened to what we pay for my TV wants.

 

I wasn’t aware. Damn, it’s getting expensive to watch the tube.

Edited April 21, 2023 by I am the egg man

[Alphadawg7]

25 minutes ago, BillsClinton said:

 

Yeah basically I think they add a surcharge if you buy it through Apple, since the appstore takes a cut. Definitely subscribe through youtube directly via browser for the actual price. 

 

For what it's worth, I consume a LOT of youtube, and I find premium well worth the price. Not having ads on any of my devices, as well as the ability to download videos for offline consumption on my ipad (useful for traveling) has been worth it. 

 

I consume a lot too...and I am already in love 30 minutes in with the no ad stuff.  Definitely no going back now ha

[T&C]

8 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I consume a lot too...and I am already in love 30 minutes in with the no ad stuff.  Definitely no going back now ha

Ad Blocker Pro... free... takes away the ads on everything. I've had it for years... nice to listen to whole lp's on youtube without the distraction.

[Billz4ever]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

So confirmed what happened.  When I go to get youtube premium on my iphone, it automatically opens my youtube app on my iphone to go to sign up.  And when it does, its $15.99 with just a 1 month free trial an no option for a discount by paying annually.

 

BUT...when I go to my computer and go to youtube on my browser, its only $11.99 a month has a 3 month free trial instead of 1.  Plus it has pay annually discount too where on my phone app didn't see a discounted annual option.  So actually only costing me $10 a month by just paying annually.  Thats a big discount from just signing up through my iphone app, plus got 2 more months free.

 

So I got the first 15 months (year plus 3 free trial months) for $120 compared to $238 for the first 15 months had I just signed up through the apple YouTube app...I mean that is a 50% savings different just based on where you sign...crazy different.  For $120, I can get behind that and went ahead and did that!  $10 a month is better than $17 a month.

 

Thanks for the heads up on the price difference bro, appreciate it.

Awesome. Don't forget you also have access to YouTube music as well.  Very well worth the $10 a month IMO.