Drew Sanders vs Jack Campbell

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, Doc said:

 

And saying someone is poor value before the draft is subjective.  All it takes is for some team to draft him higher than you were going to and then see that player become a stud.  Again I think that the latest he goes is 32, to the Steelers.  But I don't have a crystal ball.

I’m certainly no Draft expert but the aspect that many overlook is that football is a unique sport. You draft players for either offense or defense and even then for specific positions within each unit. So player rankings are more accurate by position than looked at on an overall basis. For example, the Bills are set at QB, so they can completely ignore those rankings….thank goodness. 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

And saying someone is poor value before the draft is subjective.  All it takes is for some team to draft him higher than you were going to and then see that player become a stud.  Again I think that the latest he goes is 32, to the Steelers.  But I don't have a crystal ball.

 

I don't think he will go round 1 myself (I think he is more an early day 2 guy) but he certainly could. I nailed 28 out of the 32 1st rounders in my final mock last year. I won't get close to that this year because the drop offs in talent come much earlier and so you will get into the scheme specific fits much sooner. I can see teams taking very scheme specific guys in the early 20s.

[Bills Juggernaut]

19 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I am not anti-Campbell. He is the highest floor of the top 3 linebackers. I think he might be the lowest ceiling though. If we ended up with any of Campbell, Simpson or Sanders I'd feel pretty good about the MLB spot in the medium term. 

Are any of the 3 upgrades over Tremaine?

[GunnerBill]

29 minutes ago, Bills Juggernaut said:

Are any of the 3 upgrades over Tremaine?

 

I think finding a rookie to play at the level Tremaine did in 2022 out of the box is going to be a challenge. I think it was comfortably his best season as a Bill. I think Campbell could be the closest as a rookie, but I think his calling card is going to have to be his consistency (which until 2022 was Tremaine's issue, he was inconsistent). Simpson and Sanders would probably have some growing pains in year 1. Simpson would be converting to a true MLB for the first time and Sanders has only played 1 year there in college. But I think both of them have the potential to make more splash plays than Tremaine did. None of the 3 are the prospect Edmunds was coming out mind you. He just never quite lived up to his full potential with the Bills.

[Doc]

57 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think he will go round 1 myself (I think he is more an early day 2 guy) but he certainly could. I nailed 28 out of the 32 1st rounders in my final mock last year. I won't get close to that this year because the drop offs in talent come much earlier and so you will get into the scheme specific fits much sooner. I can see teams taking very scheme specific guys in the early 20s.

 

If they identify him as the MLB they want, I can't see chancing moving down and losing him.  Especially with the Steelers sitting there.

Edited April 3, 2023 by Doc

[finn]

I wonder if the Bills draft Sanders with an idea of converting him to a DE down the line. He can really rush the passer, and the Bills don't have anyone who can bring  the heat consistently outside of Rousseau and Miller. Is there any chance at all of Campbell being available in the 2nd round? 

[TheWeatherMan]

37 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think finding a rookie to play at the level Tremaine did in 2022 out of the box is going to be a challenge. I think it was comfortably his best season as a Bill. I think Campbell could be the closest as a rookie, but I think his calling card is going to have to be his consistency (which until 2022 was Tremaine's issue, he was inconsistent). Simpson and Sanders would probably have some growing pains in year 1. Simpson would be converting to a true MLB for the first time and Sanders has only played 1 year there in college. But I think both of them have the potential to make more splash plays than Tremaine did. None of the 3 are the prospect Edmunds was coming out mind you. He just never quite lived up to his full potential with the Bills.

I think you say I think on average 4 times a post…not 100% sure but I think you do.
 

On a separate note, this is about as captain obvious of a post as it gets.  Zero added value here.

 

What do you think? 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

I think you say I think on average 4 times a post…not 100% sure but I think you do.
 

On a separate note, this is about as captain obvious of a post as it gets.  Zero added value here.

 

What do you think? 

 

I say that a lot because multiple on here get very defensive if you don't put "I think" before expressing an opinion. I agree with you, it is unneccessary. My view is on a fan message board it should be perfectly apparent when what you are doing is expressing an opinion and that actually when people should be clear is when they are not expressing an opinion and are stating something as a matter of record. But the consensus on the board seems to be that you have to make clear your opinions are opinions. 

 

As for zero added value... that is your opinion. You are entitled to it. 

[TheWeatherMan]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I say that a lot because multiple on here get very defensive if you don't put "I think" before expressing an opinion. I agree with you, it is unneccessary. My view is on a fan message board it should be perfectly apparent when what you are doing is expressing an opinion and that actually when people should be clear is when they are not expressing an opinion and are stating something as a matter of record. But the consensus on the board seems to be that you have to make clear your opinions are opinions. 

 

As for zero added value... that is your opinion. You are entitled to it. 

So you’re afraid to express your opinions on a football forum, yet are quick to criticize others as having “dumb posts” etc? Sounds pretty weak to me pal.  

[GunnerBill]

Just now, TheWeatherMan said:

So you’re afraid to express your opinions on a football forum, yet are quick to criticize others as having “dumb posts” etc? Sounds pretty weak to me pal.  

 

No. I expressed my opinions. I just made clear that is what they are.

[TheWeatherMan]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

No. I expressed my opinions. I just made clear that is what they are.

Sounds like crowd pleasing to me…I digress. 

[Alphadawg7]

On 4/2/2023 at 7:20 AM, Rigotz said:

All across the message board I keep seeing folks talk about Jack Campbell. 
 

Why is nobody talking about Drew Sanders? Same position, better fit, significantly better player … is the assumption that he won’t fall to us?

 

Campbell is graded higher than Sanders just about everywhere I check.  So not a surprise to see Campbell the more talked about player.  

 

I think both are potential targets for us, but if we were to draft Sanders I think we would be wasting his best attributes which is rushing the passer as we do not bring blitzes often from the MLB spot in this defense.  So unless McD intends on changing how we have used our MLB, Campbell seems to be the more ready to play fit for us.  

 

I would be excited about either player personally, both have some exciting positives about them.  But I just think Campbell seems to be a more likely choice who could come in more ready to play in this defense.  

[GunnerBill]

22 minutes ago, TheWeatherMan said:

Sounds like crowd pleasing to me…I digress. 

 

It is in a sense but it doesn't dilute my opinions at all. Just means I am clearer than I would otherwise be that they are opinions. I probably do overuse "I think" for my own tastes.

18 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Campbell is graded higher than Sanders just about everywhere I check.  So not a surprise to see Campbell the more talked about player.  

 

I think both are potential targets for us, but if we were to draft Sanders I think we would be wasting his best attributes which is rushing the passer as we do not bring blitzes often from the MLB spot in this defense.  So unless McD intends on changing how we have used our MLB, Campbell seems to be the more ready to play fit for us.  

 

I would be excited about either player personally, both have some exciting positives about them.  But I just think Campbell seems to be a more likely choice who could come in more ready to play in this defense.  

 

Except Campbell is the least comfortable of the 3 (I throw Simpson in there too) going sideline to sideline and our defense under Leslie asked both Edmunds and Milano to run lateral to the line of scrimmage a LOT. Take the point on Sanders and his blitzing. He obviously played as a pass rusher most of his life until last year so he is advanced in that area. I think you can fit any of them into our D. But none are plug and play versions of Tremaine. He was a bit of a unicorn.

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think he will go round 1 myself (I think he is more an early day 2 guy) but he certainly could. I nailed 28 out of the 32 1st rounders in my final mock last year. I won't get close to that this year because the drop offs in talent come much earlier and so you will get into the scheme specific fits much sooner. I can see teams taking very scheme specific guys in the early 20s.

 

No disrespect Gunner, but I would drop the whole "I got 28 out of the 32 1st rounders in my final mock last year" thing because just about every final mock scored like this or better.  That is a lot different than mocking the correct slot and team.  In fact, the first 3 I pulled up had 28 or 29 correct of who was going first round.  Even my own had 27 correct from my mock draft pool and I in, and I made almost no effort on it as I was so busy prepping for my wedding and honeymoon a month later.  It was pretty easy to do last year, not really something to keep flexing on as if it means you have a better opinion than anyone you are talking to.    

 

IMHO, every time you say this it just comes across as you trying to say your opinion is better than theirs when in reality this "28 out of 32" was pretty easy to do last year.  Just some honest feedback, not meant to be rude.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

No disrespect Gunner, but I would drop the whole "I got 28 out of the 32 1st rounders in my final mock last year" thing because just about every final mock scored like this or better.  That is a lot different than mocking the correct slot and team.  In fact, the first 3 I pulled up had 28 or 29 correct of who was going first round.  Even my own had 27 correct from my mock draft pool and I in, and I made almost no effort on it as I was so busy prepping for my wedding and honeymoon a month later.  It was pretty easy to do last year, not really something to keep flexing on as if it means you have a better opinion than anyone you are talking to.    

 

IMHO, every time you say this it just comes across as you trying to say your opinion is better than theirs when in reality this "28 out of 32" was pretty easy to do last year.  Just some honest feedback, not meant to be rude.  

 

 

 

Well you didn't take it in the manner it was intended. It was not attempting to say "my opinion is better than yours" it was attempting to say exactly what you said - that it was pretty easy last year to work out who the first rounders were. This year it is a lot harder and a lot less clear cut.

[Alphadawg7]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Well you didn't take it in the manner it was intended. It was not attempting to say "my opinion is better than yours" it was attempting to say exactly what you said - that it was pretty easy last year to work out who the first rounders were. This year it is a lot harder and a lot less clear cut.

You didn’t say it to me, just seen you say this now in multiple threads and was just saying I think it makes you come across differently than maybe you intend.  Was just honest feedback as I think your posts are stronger without it IMHO.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Alphadawg7 said:

You didn’t say it to me, just seen you say this now in multiple threads and was just saying I think it makes you come across differently than maybe you intend.  Was just honest feedback as I think your posts are stronger without it IMHO.  

 

I have said it twice in the last month. Neither time was it a flex.

 

The first time it was to make a point about how grading is different to mocking. 

 

The second time it was to make a point about how mixed up the back half of this year's first round is. 

 

I can't help how people take it. But there is never any intention to flex. 

[KOKBILLS]

12 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

I know everyone loves Jack Campbell. But I think he's just poor value at 27. I'd hope we'd trade down from 27 or up from 59 if he's who they want.

 

It's odd to me that a place that I see so often posting "you don't reach for need" is so keen on it this year with Campbell.

 

A lot of people were torching Beane for "reaching" for Elam last year. Campbell seems to be a much bigger reach at 27 this year than Elam was at 23 last year.

 

I think Campbell is a better MLB prospect than Elam was a CB prospect tbh...Admittedly that may be just me. And I like Elam...

 

It will all depend on how Campbell plays if given the opportunity. In Buffalo he would get PLENTY of opportunity to play. Like almost every down. If he contributed close to what Edmunds did that would be a steal at #27...

 

I don't put much emphasis on what other internet scouts think. Most of them told me I was crazy on Twitter when I said Pat Mahomes was #1 overall in 2017, or that DK Metcalf was a top 10 pick...They also thought Chis Jones was a 2nd Round prospect in 2016 when I was saying he was the best D-Lineman in that Draft...He ended up being the 5th DT taken...So...It's all relative....Most NFL Scouts are meh... 

Edited April 3, 2023 by KOKBILLS

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I have said it twice in the last month. Neither time was it a flex.

 

The first time it was to make a point about how grading is different to mocking. 

 

The second time it was to make a point about how mixed up the back half of this year's first round is. 

 

I can't help how people take it. But there is never any intention to flex. 

It’s all good, was just my 2 cents, take it FWIW.  But I said it’s how it came across, I didn’t say it was your intention.  Even said it may be coming off differently than you intend.  

[C.Biscuit97]

I’ve grown to really like Campbell but once again, we are going to miss Edmunds more people want to admit. Also the idea of using a 1st round pick on a MLB after losing a good one seems like awful roster construction. Especially when Campbell is going to be a liability in coverage. 
 

I like the player so I won’t absolutely hate the pick but it definitely won’t be my favorite.

[Doc]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’ve grown to really like Campbell but once again, we are going to miss Edmunds more people want to admit. Also the idea of using a 1st round pick on a MLB after losing a good one seems like awful roster construction. Especially when Campbell is going to be a liability in coverage. 
 

I like the player so I won’t absolutely hate the pick but it definitely won’t be my favorite.

 

Not when the player lost cost $20M/year.  As for being a liability in coverage, I've seen conflicting reports on that.

[billsfan89]

26 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I’ve grown to really like Campbell but once again, we are going to miss Edmunds more people want to admit. Also the idea of using a 1st round pick on a MLB after losing a good one seems like awful roster construction. Especially when Campbell is going to be a liability in coverage. 
 

I like the player so I won’t absolutely hate the pick but it definitely won’t be my favorite.

 

I would rather use pick 27 to get a piece on offense to help Josh. The Bills can spend pick 59 or 91 to address MLB and I can live with lesser MLB play. Josh is the franchise and this team needs to invest premium picks in the talent around him. Either a WR or RT should be there at pick 27 that can get the offense another piece it needs to be successful. 

 

To put it simply I can live with mediocre MLB play but I don't think this team should be skimping on putting talent around Josh.

[HaldimandBills]

On 4/2/2023 at 10:27 AM, FrenchConnection said:

the posters on TBD tend to skew older. They want a white LB with a mullet and a neck pad, like it was 1995. Edmunds was a modern LB and was hated here because he is a coverage LB and not Shane Conlin.

Both Drew Sanders and Jack Campbell are white. Want to maybe rethink your ignorant - post modernist opinion. I'm in my 30s FYI.

[Einstein's Dog]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I say that a lot because multiple on here get very defensive if you don't put "I think" before expressing an opinion. I agree with you, it is unneccessary. My view is on a fan message board it should be perfectly apparent when what you are doing is expressing an opinion and that actually when people should be clear is when they are not expressing an opinion and are stating something as a matter of record. But the consensus on the board seems to be that you have to make clear your opinions are opinions. 

 

As for zero added value... that is your opinion. You are entitled to it. 

If it's any consolation I appreciate your efforts in qualifying what is your opinion.  It makes it easier (at least for me) to converse about opinions I differ with.

 

I'd be excited with either mlb.   Seems to fit the best player available at a premier position of need.  Our last mlb just got $18M and good replacements would have cost in excess of $7M.  Contrast that with the Singletary getting $3.5M and our replacing him with the $1.8M Harris.

 

I think the trading down scenario's are a difficult and dangerous game.  If both mlb's are still there along with B Robinson, I could see the FO trying something.  Otherwise just take your preference and be done with it.

[Rigotz]

5 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Campbell is graded higher than Sanders just about everywhere I check.  So not a surprise to see Campbell the more talked about player.  

 

I think both are potential targets for us, but if we were to draft Sanders I think we would be wasting his best attributes which is rushing the passer as we do not bring blitzes often from the MLB spot in this defense.  So unless McD intends on changing how we have used our MLB, Campbell seems to be the more ready to play fit for us.  

 

I would be excited about either player personally, both have some exciting positives about them.  But I just think Campbell seems to be a more likely choice who could come in more ready to play in this defense.  

 

I don't know where you guys are looking...

 

Drew Sanders: https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/drew-sanders

Jack Campbell: https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/jack-campbell

 

That website aggregates all mock drafts and rankings and Sanders is ranked significantly better.

 

 

[Snappysnackcakes]

16 hours ago, Utah John said:

Conlan was a great mid-field thumper, but his 40 time was measured with a sundial.  Watching him chase someone was just pathetic.  MLBs like him were great in their day but not now. 

‘87 was the first year for the draft combine and Conlan did not participate. We’ll never know his 40, but he wasn’t that slow. BTW, today is his birthday. Weird. 

[Doc]

53 minutes ago, Rigotz said:

I don't know where you guys are looking...

 

Drew Sanders: https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/drew-sanders

Jack Campbell: https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/jack-campbell

 

That website aggregates all mock drafts and rankings and Sanders is ranked significantly better.

 

Yeah but Campbell's highest draft position is 17th overall whereas for Sanders it's 30th.  Again it just takes one team to take a player higher than others had him ranked and watch him become a stud.

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah but Campbell's highest draft position is 17th overall whereas for Sanders it's 30th.  Again it just takes one team to take a player higher than others had him ranked and watch him become a stud.

 

See: Troup, Torrel

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Rigotz said:

 

I don't know where you guys are looking...

 

Drew Sanders: https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/drew-sanders

Jack Campbell: https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/players/2023/jack-campbell

 

That website aggregates all mock drafts and rankings and Sanders is ranked significantly better.

 

 

 

They compile mock drafts, that doesn't reflect actual scout grading.  Not a surprise Sanders is mocked a bit earlier because he excels more at rushing the passer as more of a hybrid LB who converted from DE vs a true Mike LB.  

 

It honestly comes down to the type of LB you want really because both Sanders and Simpson are quite different players than Campbell.  

[Pirate Angel]

Id love either one,  Sanders edges him out with athleticism. 

[BobbyC81]

On 4/2/2023 at 7:43 AM, TheyCallMeAndy said:

From what I can gather:

 

Sanders - Better athlete, 1 year starter, very raw, poor tackler, great blitzer.

 

Campbell - Better size, much more consistent, elite intangibles and leadership. 
 

Sanders has the higher ceiling, Campbell has a higher floor.

 

I do feel one of these two will be the pick at 27.

One of the multi-round mocks on NFL.com has the Bills getting Sanders with their 2nd round pick.  Not very likely.

[Warriorspikes51]

Are we really going into this draft and reaching for a MLB at 27 like we did last year at CB?

Rather irritating.  

[bmur66]

Wait…..Does Campbell have a mullet or not?

Edited April 4, 2023 by bmur66

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Are we really going into this draft and reaching for a MLB at 27 like we did last year at CB?

Rather irritating.  

Let me guess: You prefer to reach for another DE? 😉

[Southern_Bills]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Are we really going into this draft and reaching for a MLB at 27 like we did last year at CB?

Rather irritating.  

 

Sadly at 27 most positions we need will be considered a reach unless someone falls.

 

I'd still like an Olineman, but even then at 27 there are no slam dunks.

 

At pick 27 I just trust the GM has a clue, Elam wasn't a bad pick, he was just managed poorly his rookie year.

[OldTimer1960]

16 hours ago, Augie said:

 

See: Troup, Torrel

Troup injured his back and cost him his career.  I think unfair to call him a bust - could not know he would be injured when they play picked him.

[LyndonvilleBill]

1 hour ago, bmur66 said:

Wait…..Does Campbell have a mullet or not?

Doesn't look like a mullet guy to me. Just some diglebarry spewing crap.

[Philly McButterpants]

On 4/2/2023 at 11:09 AM, John from Riverside said:

Didn’t our last linebacker play outside in college? Could’ve swore I heard that Tremaine played outside.

 

Doesn't matter cuz he's only 19 and he will learn it...

[Shaw66]

On 4/3/2023 at 11:10 AM, GunnerBill said:

 

I think finding a rookie to play at the level Tremaine did in 2022 out of the box is going to be a challenge. I think it was comfortably his best season as a Bill. I think Campbell could be the closest as a rookie, but I think his calling card is going to have to be his consistency (which until 2022 was Tremaine's issue, he was inconsistent). Simpson and Sanders would probably have some growing pains in year 1. Simpson would be converting to a true MLB for the first time and Sanders has only played 1 year there in college. But I think both of them have the potential to make more splash plays than Tremaine did. None of the 3 are the prospect Edmunds was coming out mind you. He just never quite lived up to his full potential with the Bills.

Thanks for your comments in this thread.  I've jumped around a bit here and learned.   

 

I happened to watch a Youtube highlights video of Sanders, and I can see why people think he has promise.   I like his size and his mobility, although it's clear from the video that he doesn't play at the speed Edmunds does.   As you say, none are the prospect Edmunds was. 

 

What I really liked about Sanders is that he attacks ball carriers.   He gets downhill and hits people with the intention of taking them off their feet.   I don't mean he's a run stopper.  I mean when he arrives at the ball carrier in the flat or over the middle, he hits the guy like I always hoped Edmunds would hit the guy.  

 

I think he has the size and mobility to play the position the way the Bills played Edmunds. Probably a little better player downhill and a little less range in coverage.  

[Tenhigh]

On 4/2/2023 at 10:27 AM, FrenchConnection said:

the posters on TBD tend to skew older. They want a white LB with a mullet and a neck pad, like it was 1995. Edmunds was a modern LB and was hated here because he is a coverage LB and not Shane Conlin.

Dang, somebody struck a nerve...