McDermott "officially" calling D plays

[DrDawkinstein]

On 3/27/2023 at 2:32 PM, FrenchConnection said:

But its not just Reid. It's actually really common for HCs that were OCs to call the plays. Off the top of my head, this is the list:

• Nick Siriani
• Zach Taylor
• Sean McVey
• Kevin O'Connell 
• Kyle Shanahan
• Mike McDaniel
• Josh McDaniels
• Matt LaFleur

There are probably more of them.

 

(I dont mean for this post to be a direct reply to @FrenchConnection, I'm quoting the post because it had the best list, and the list that inspired these thoughts)

 

So I was thinking a bit about this while doing the dishes just now, and had a thought pop in my head.

 

This is a decent sized list and makes it seem like Head Coaches calling plays is a common thing that happens all the time.

 

Here's the thing:

 

Most (75%) of that list is the recent run on the Jay Gruden(Kyle Shanahan) tree. McVay, Taylor, O'Connell, McDaniel, and LaFleur were all part of an arms race to gobble up as much late-30 bro Offensive "Geniuses" before another team could get to them. And even though Siriani doesn't come from that tree, he fits the mold (funny enough, when Siriani was an OC of the Colts his HC called the plays too).

 

And speaking of Siriani and the Colts, his 37 yr old OC in Philly, Shane Steichen, just got hired to be the Head Coach back in Indy, where I'm sure he will call his own plays too. Because that is the hot trend in the Offensive league.

 

It's why, even tho the Bills' Offense struggled a bit this year, teams were quick to start sniffing around and interviewing Dorsey for a HC spot after only 1 year as OC.

 

While we're at it, keep an eye out for names like Press Taylor (35), and Alex Tanney (35) who I'm sure will be getting looks next offseason.

 

Most of these guys do not yet have an established track record as a good Head Coach who makes good in-game decisions, produces well-disciplined teams, and squeezes wins out of under-talented teams (like Tomlin).

 

A number of them look successful in their short careers simply due to the benefit of having a young, hot QB in a QB-centric league.

 

And maybe that is the new 21st Century NFL. Get a young OC, put him in charge, draft him a QB, and let him play Madden on Sundays.

 

But we dont have one of those types. So, without the skew of the "new hotness", the list really looks more like:

 

Reid

McDaniels

Belichick

Dennis Allen

Sean Payton

Doug Pederson(?)

Todd Bowles(?)

 

I dunno. I'm not trying to make any major arguments. Just an observation, for whatever that's worth.

 

I do wonder how many HC's were calling plays back as recently as 2018, before this run. Maybe I'll dig into that tomorrow.

 

 

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

But we dont have one of those types. So, without the skew of the "new hotness", the list really looks more like:

 

Reid

McDaniels

Belichick

Dennis Allen

Sean Payton

Doug Pederson(?)

Todd Bowles(?)

 

I dunno. I'm not trying to make any major arguments. Just an observation, for whatever that's worth.

 

I do wonder how many HC's were calling plays back as recently as 2018, before this run. Maybe I'll dig into that tomorrow.

 

Why the question marks after Pederson and Bowles?

 

Ron Rivera ought to come in there somewhere.  After all, he earned the nickname “Riverboat Ron” back in 2014 for that reason

So it’s worth noting that McDermott’s lineage as a coach includes two mentors who, as HC, called plays

Edited March 29, 2023 by Beck Water

[DrDawkinstein]

 

 

8 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Aren’t there more examples making it more than one example.  In addition to Andy Reid:

 

Shaun McVay calls plays.  Don’t think he’s given that up. Think they might have gone to two super bowls and won one.

Doug Pederson calls plays.  Think they might have won a Super Bowl or something with him calling

I believe Zac Taylor calls plays for the Bengals

Kyle Shanahan calls plays, though there’s some interesting stuff about that on 538

 

Didn’t Bill Belicheck used to call plays?  Took him a long time to hand over the reins even to long time coordinators Josh McDaniels and Matt Patricia.  He might have had some success sometime

 

Sirianni used to call plays.  He handed off to Steichen I think midway through 2021, but with Steichen heading to the Colts, who knows?

 

Seems to go more with offensive minded HC than defensive, but that’s partly because there are more of the former

 

 

I'm not sure why you came back to the thread just to quote and argue against a post from the 1st page of a long, developed discussion 🤣

 

It's already evolved well beyond what you were trying to bring back up. Weird enough, you have been part of that evolved discussion. What is you doin.

 

edit: lol, literally the 4th post in the thread. Cmon. Get with the times. I linked you to that French Connection post YESTERDAY.

 

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

Why the question marks after Pederson and Bowles?

 

I wasnt sure if they do, but was assuming to give the benefit of the doubt

Edited March 29, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

 

I'm not sure why you came back to the thread just to quote and argue against a post from the 1st page of a long, developed discussion 🤣

 

It's already evolved well beyond what you were trying to bring back up. Weird enough, you have been part of that evolved discussion. What is you doin.

 

edit: lol, literally the 4th post in the thread. Cmon. Get with the times. I linked you to that French Connection post YESTERDAY.

 

 

I wasnt sure if they do, but was assuming to give the benefit of the doubt

 

Jeesh, did you have crab cakes for dinner or something?  

 

I responded to a post that was made yesterday, in which you didn’t seem to acknowledge that other guys called plays.

 

Deal.

 

If you don’t know whether or not Doug Pederson called plays you could research it a bit.  Reich gave him credit for “taking play ideas from anyone” during the Eagles Superboal run (ie, he was calling the plays).  He was his own OC for one year (spoiler didn’t work well) and now he’s calling plays for the Jags

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Jeesh, did you have crab cakes for dinner or something?  

 

I responded to a post that was made yesterday, in which you didn’t seem to acknowledge that other guys called plays.

 

Deal.

 

If you don’t know whether or not Doug Pederson called plays you could research it a bit.  Reich gave him credit for “taking play ideas from anyone” during the Eagles Superboal run (ie, he was calling the plays).  He was his own OC for one year (spoiler didn’t work well) and now he’s calling plays for the Jags

 

Why would you assume my tone is anything but jovial? I even gave you the smilies!

4 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

If you don’t know whether or not Doug Pederson called plays you could research it a bit.  Reich gave him credit for “taking play ideas from anyone” during the Eagles Superboal run (ie, he was calling the plays).  He was his own OC for one year (spoiler didn’t work well) and now he’s calling plays for the Jags

 

Thanks, mom. I was already in the middle of a long winded post I was trying to wrap up and figured I'd leave something that minor up for discussion. You're not fun to engage with anymore. Let's not make this about us. Again.

 

Weird.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Beck Water]

10 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Why would you assume my tone is anything but jovial? I even gave you the smilies!

 

Thanks, mom. I was already in the middle of a long winded post I was trying to wrap up and figured I'd leave something that minor up for discussion. You're not fun to engage with anymore. Let's not make this about us. Again.

 

Weird.

 

 

You’re making an entire post “about me” then end “let’s not make this about us”.  😂.

 

Yeah, it’s weird, but you’re the one weirding.  Hello, if you don’t find it fun to engage with me…just move on by like a sensible chap instead of clap- back condescension and issuing instructions.  

 

Too bad, there’s actually interesting stuff to discuss about Pederson and Rivera and play calling.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Beck Water

[GolfandBills]

More than half the league has a head coach who also calls plays.  Non issue 

[Beck Water]

1 minute ago, GolfandBills said:

More than half the league has a head coach who also calls plays.  Non issue 

 

That’s kind of one of the points of discussion here: who are those HC?  People have tried to come up with lists, but afaik it’s short of 17

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

More than half the league has a head coach who also calls plays.  Non issue 

 

My man, do me a favor and read through my post above and let me know what you think about this new trend and group, and if that is really the norm.

[NastyNateSoldiers]

On 3/27/2023 at 2:12 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I put "officially" in quotes because McD gives more great coach-speak saying "the current plan". That can always change later.

 

Starting a new thread on this since it has been rumored and discussed, but I've never seen it out of McD's mouth like this.

 

IMO, not great. It may be an improvement over Frazier, but I'm not a fan of Head Coaches calling plays. Seems like the boss is wasting time doing other peoples' jobs.

Most of the Head coaches in the league call plays now. McD should transition easily to doing so. 

[KHAN]

On 3/27/2023 at 2:29 PM, streetkings01 said:

Would you rather he walk the sidelines and clap his hands after every play?

He's a multitasker. He'll do both.

[Jukester]

Love to hear this but we’ll see. Historically, the philosophy under him as head coach has been bend but don’t break.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Jukester

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, Jukester said:

Love to hear this but we’ll see. Historically, the philosophy under him as head coach has been bend but don’t break.

 

I've wondered through this discussion how much of McD's aggressiveness in Carolina was due to the pressure/influence of his aggressive Head Coach, "Riverboat Ron"? Did he need that weekly influence of a former badass MLB in his ear encouraging him to push those limits? Can he find that again on his own with possibly his job on the line?

[Jukester]

I’d be happy if he could start with scrapping the 10-15 yard cushions on 3rd and 5 😃

[Ethan in Cleveland]

As soon as Frazier stepped down I wanted McD calling the defense. First I want him to succeed and have a positive impact calling the plays. But I also want no excuses if the D falters. We still don't know who is ultimately responsible for 13 seconds as McD called TO before each play and almost assuredly had some input into the strategy to defend against a TD instead of a FG. 

Last season the D was decimated by injuries. Hopefully they are healthy this year. No excuse about a first time coordinator not getting the job done.  

I have no worries about McD not being able to manage the game and call the D.  While I am skeptical he is the guy to win it all, he's bright and I'm sure can multitask. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

As soon as Frazier stepped down I wanted McD calling the defense. First I want him to succeed and have a positive impact calling the plays. But I also want no excuses if the D falters. We still don't know who is ultimately responsible for 13 seconds as McD called TO before each play and almost assuredly had some input into the strategy to defend against a TD instead of a FG. 

Last season the D was decimated by injuries. Hopefully they are healthy this year. No excuse about a first time coordinator not getting the job done.  

 

 

I agree. What I did not want was a new DC where after 2023 we are saying "well maybe a second season with that coordinator..." It is a big year for this regime. Personally I wanted Frazier to stay, but once he stepped down, I understand McD taking it on. 

 

The one thing I will say about DCs playcalling compared to OCs is I think the studying the ipad and adjusting is more critical on D than on O because on D you are the reactive side of the ball. On offense, sure you need see what looks the D is giving you and adjust a bit but you are in control. You are the protagonist. To an extent you can make the D adjust to you. Much harder the other way around. 

 

But we will see. McDermott is one of the top defensive minds in the league so hopefully it works out. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I've wondered through this discussion how much of McD's aggressiveness in Carolina was due to the pressure/influence of his aggressive Head Coach, "Riverboat Ron"? Did he need that weekly influence of a former badass MLB in his ear encouraging him to push those limits? Can he find that again on his own with possibly his job on the line?

Rivera got the riverboat nickname for his aggressive tendencies on 4th down calls decisions on offense which McDermott has definitely internalized. It wasn't so much aggressive calls on defense iirc.

8 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

As soon as Frazier stepped down I wanted McD calling the defense. First I want him to succeed and have a positive impact calling the plays. But I also want no excuses if the D falters. We still don't know who is ultimately responsible for 13 seconds as McD called TO before each play and almost assuredly had some input into the strategy to defend against a TD instead of a FG. 

Last season the D was decimated by injuries. Hopefully they are healthy this year. No excuse about a first time coordinator not getting the job done.  

I have no worries about McD not being able to manage the game and call the D.  While I am skeptical he is the guy to win it all, he's bright and I'm sure can multitask. 

Of course we know who was ultimately responsible for the 13 seconds- McDermott.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Rivera got the riverboat nickname for his aggressive tendencies on 4th down calls decisions on offense which McDermott has definitely internalized. It wasn't so much aggressive calls on defense iirc.

 

 

I get the nickname came from offensive calls, but I dont think his aggressive/gambling is only alive in those small situations. Especially as a former MLB/Special Teamer.

 

And McD's defenses in Carolina were far more aggressive than they have been with the Bills, so hopefully he can bring some of that back from Carolina this year.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I get the nickname came from offensive calls, but I dont think his aggressive/gambling is only alive in those small situations. Especially as a former MLB/Special Teamer.

 

And McD's defenses in Carolina were far more aggressive than they have been with the Bills, so hopefully he can bring some of that back from Carolina this year.

tbh I don't care if what it looks like, just that it doesn't fall apart in big games

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, Jukester said:

Love to hear this but we’ll see. Historically, the philosophy under him as head coach has been bend but don’t break.

 

When you have a coach nicknamed "Riverboat Ron" for his aggressive playcalling speak about needing to rein McD in, That's Saying Something.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Beck Water

[Ethan in Cleveland]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I agree. What I did not want was a new DC where after 2023 we are saying "well maybe a second season with that coordinator..." It is a big year for this regime. Personally I wanted Frazier to stay, but once he stepped down, I understand McD taking it on. 

 

The one thing I will say about DCs playcalling compared to OCs is I think the studying the ipad and adjusting is more critical on D than on O because on D you are the reactive side of the ball. On offense, sure you need see what looks the D is giving you and adjust a bit but you are in control. You are the protagonist. To an extent you can make the D adjust to you. Much harder the other way around. 

 

But we will see. McDermott is one of the top defensive minds in the league so hopefully it works out. 

Good point. I'm sure he will have the new guy - Holcomb was his name I think, to help with in game review and adjustments.  

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

When you have a coach nicknamed "Riverboat Ron" for his aggressive playcalling speak about needing to rein McD in, That's Saying Something.

Yup-  it says that we haven’t been watching McDs defense-  don’t listen to make believe Carolina fans 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I've wondered through this discussion how much of McD's aggressiveness in Carolina was due to the pressure/influence of his aggressive Head Coach, "Riverboat Ron"? Did he need that weekly influence of a former badass MLB in his ear encouraging him to push those limits? Can he find that again on his own with possibly his job on the line?

 

 You just don't want to accept that it wasn't his defense over the last several years. I told right off the bat he was an aggressive DC and now his former HC confirms it and you still question it. Many seem to forget that before Ron Rivera was nicknamed Riverboat Ron he was a very conservative coach. He only changed when he was about to lose the locker room in Carolina. McDermott is far more aggressive than Ron is.

 

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

57 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 You just don't want to accept that it wasn't his defense over the last several years. I told right off the bat he was an aggressive DC and now his former HC confirms it and you still question it. Many seem to forget that before Ron Rivera was nicknamed Riverboat Ron he was a very conservative coach. He only changed when he was about to lose the locker room in Carolina. McDermott is far more aggressive than Ron is.

 

 

 

 

We're here to discuss. I can ask questions and pose things so folks can chime in. Dont get offended by my questioning, or take it as some personal slight to you or McD.

 

I am absolutely counting on McD coming out with a far more aggressive Defense. Otherwise, why bother?

 

But McD has never come across as a "LETS SMASH THEIR F%&$ING HEADS IN" guy. The team has been living his culture the last 5 years. And for that time, we've been soft on both sides of the ball. We've gotten bullied far more than we've done the bullying. But we win with talent and finesse.

 

I got similarly mocked right before the Cincy game because I said I was worried and didnt think we'd have the toughness

On 1/19/2023 at 2:07 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

For what it's worth, when we are this deep into the playoffs, I kinda wish our crew would be less "Humble" and more "Hyped & Hungry". Start fast, execute, take the fight to them and knock em in the mouth before they know what hit em. Be the bully for once.

 

On 1/20/2023 at 1:04 AM, LeGOATski said:

You want them to....build a bully?

Yeah, the Bills are PLENTY physical on both sides of the ball.

 

And then the game happened.

 

(no offense LeGOATski, tried to take your name off the post. just for illustrative purposes)

 

This is a Championship Coach's pregame speech, can you ever see McD pulling this?

 

 

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by DrDawkinstein

[Chaos]

On 3/27/2023 at 2:31 PM, GoBills808 said:

I'd rather they hire a DC and let him call the defense

Maybe this really means Dorsey is running the show, and McD is told to focus on defense. 

[Yantha]

Had a thought and I'm not sure if it's been talked about yet.

 

Wondering if McDermot will overcompensate with defensive draft picks in order to have a good showing as defensive playcaller....

 

Any history of his style out there and if he will want to bring in specific skillsets?

 

Like, DIME, 3-4, etc?

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

I still want my question answered on who did the defensive play calling in the last 4 min of the KC playoff game. 

[major]

I’ll say this, it’s a big gamble

when the HC takes over play calling on either side of the ball. The buck stops here with McDermott and he is definitely putting his career on the line as a HC

[GunnerBill]

On 3/30/2023 at 1:58 AM, Yantha said:

Had a thought and I'm not sure if it's been talked about yet.

 

Wondering if McDermot will overcompensate with defensive draft picks in order to have a good showing as defensive playcaller....

 

Any history of his style out there and if he will want to bring in specific skillsets?

 

Like, DIME, 3-4, etc?

 

Nah he is a 4-3 guy. Formation wise it will be very similar to what Frazier did. When he was DC in Carolina he preferred to use a linebacker as a "big nickel" Shaq Thompson primarily, rather than a traditional nickel corner but in terms of actual alignment he played a similar role to Taron. Some maybe think we will see Taylor Rapp do a bit of that big nickel type stuff, but he was mainly a deep safety for the Rams so personally that feels like a projection. I think he is here rather to provide some better vet depth for Jordan and Micah. I think it is fair to say McDermott is a more aggressive playcaller than Leslie, but on terms of overall scheme, formation, alignment, change ups I expect it to look similar. 

[billieve420]

21 minutes ago, major said:

I’ll say this, it’s a big gamble

when the HC takes over play calling on either side of the ball. The buck stops here with McDermott and he is definitely putting his career on the line as a HC

 

With how the team has underperformed come playoff time the buck stops with McDermott and he needs to right the ship so I am good with this decision.

[boater]

4 hours ago, billieve420 said:

 

With how the team has underperformed come playoff time the buck stops with McDermott and he needs to right the ship so I am good with this decision.

Maybe the team didn't underperform. Maybe it performed at its level. Maybe McDermott, the 13th winningest winning NFL coach, brought the team above its level.

[stuvian]

I need to see McDermott call a play that causes us to win an important game. I haven't seen that yet. I know we're a better team with him and Beane and the Pegulas but I need to see Clappy be the reason that we win if only once.

[billieve420]

5 hours ago, boater said:

Maybe the team didn't underperform. Maybe it performed at its level. Maybe McDermott, the 13th winningest winning NFL coach, brought the team above its level.

I see a top 10 ranked defense that plays scared and overly conservative against teams with elite QBs. I hope we see a shift away from being a finesse team who allows teams to dictate how they want to play. Believe part of the problem was the play caller who is no longer here. I rather be aggressive and lose versus soft and underwhelming. Focus on Red zone defense and limiting TDs scored against. If this results in a middle of the pack defense that is fine. Key to a Super Bowl rests on the offense. 

[Mynamemike]

I didn’t see any updates but are we bringing on any new coaches to make up for McDermott’s clapping now that he’s calling plays?  I feel like we’re gonna need at least two people to make up for the loss of sheer power and enthusiasm he brings to his claps.  

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, Mynamemike said:

I didn’t see any updates but are we bringing on any new coaches to make up for McDermott’s clapping now that he’s calling plays?  I feel like we’re gonna need at least two people to make up for the loss of sheer power and enthusiasm he brings to his claps.  

No

[Mynamemike]

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

No

 

that’s no good, we’re better than that. What’s Beane even doing out there?

[Captain Hindsight]

7 hours ago, Mynamemike said:

I didn’t see any updates but are we bringing on any new coaches to make up for McDermott’s clapping now that he’s calling plays?  I feel like we’re gonna need at least two people to make up for the loss of sheer power and enthusiasm he brings to his claps.  

I’m available and inexpensive 

[Sierra Foothills]

On 3/30/2023 at 4:14 PM, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I still want my question answered on who did the defensive play calling in the last 4 min of the KC playoff game. 

 

 

6 hours ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I’m available and inexpensive 

 

Can you send us an audition video? Also an audio recording with a decibel meter would be helpful.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by Sierra Foothills

[PBF81]

On 3/27/2023 at 2:17 PM, Don Otreply said:

Andy Reid calls the offense in KC, has won two championships so I don’t think he is wasting his time…, 

 

Given that the average ranking of his defense over the past 7 seasons is a perfect 22nd, one could argue that.  

 

 

[Don Otreply]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Given that the average ranking of his defense over the past 7 seasons is a perfect 22nd, one could argue that.  

 

 

Andy calls the offense…,  just sayin, 😁