Leslie Frazier "taking a year off from coaching" per Bills PR

[FireChans]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't want Frazier fired (and he wasn't he stepped away) because I think he is a really good DC. Has the defense struggled in the last 3 playoff exits? Yes. Is some of that about gameplan? Sure. But they have failed to execute in some big moments too and I think fans are way to quick to jump to coaching. Coaches coach. Players play. I think his guys have let him down to a large extent. 

 

I don't disagree about the resource allocation point. Or that the offense last year got let down badly. But my point against Cincy the Bills were a ***** show from start to finish in all phases. They played their worst game of the season by far in the divisional round of the playoffs. You do that and you are getting beat. I think the Xs and Os are kinda secondary at that point. It's about the Jimmies and the Joes. 

I think you could argue that the 2022 Bills defense was Leslie's best year.

 

#2 in points allowed starting Dane Jackson, Kaiir, Benford, and 6 games of an extremely rusty Tre.  Micah out for the year. Poyer extremely banged up. Hamlin out with his cardiac issue, Von missing half the season etc.

 

Sure the #2 was a big of a mirage against great offenses, but it was a pretty good season considering the turmoil.  Not sure the offense sustains its production with Diggs/Dawkins/Morse missing a considerable amount of time.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

2 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think you could argue that the 2022 Bills defense was Leslie's best year.

 

#2 in points allowed starting Dane Jackson, Kaiir, Benford, and 6 games of an extremely rusty Tre.  Micah out for the year. Poyer extremely banged up. Hamlin out with his cardiac issue, Von missing half the season etc.

 

Sure the #2 was a big of a mirage against great offenses, but it was a pretty good season considering the turmoil.  Not sure the offense sustains its production with Diggs/Dawkins/Morse missing a considerable amount of time.

You’re talking too much sense for many on this board to understand.

 

 

[Wayne Cubed]

3 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think you could argue that the 2022 Bills defense was Leslie's best year.

 

#2 in points allowed starting Dane Jackson, Kaiir, Benford, and 6 games of an extremely rusty Tre.  Micah out for the year. Poyer extremely banged up. Hamlin out with his cardiac issue, Von missing half the season etc.

 

Sure the #2 was a big of a mirage against great offenses, but it was a pretty good season considering the turmoil.  Not sure the offense sustains its production with Diggs/Dawkins/Morse missing a considerable amount of time.

Not to mention missing Edmunds, Oliver and other parts of the rotating DL.

 

Like you say, flip that around and the Bills

offense didn’t having missing games from Allen or Diggs, their 2 best players on offense. Davis missed 1 game. If Diggs/Davis go down for a long stretch what does that offense look like?

[BillsCuse]

On 3/1/2023 at 7:43 AM, DrPJax said:

     Sorry , but when your d collapses in 3 playoff losses , two of which you blew leads in, the grass wasn’t all that green to begin with.  Again , in 3 losses , the great D gave up 107 points, 1403 yards , and lost one lead with only 13 seconds left to protect .  When it couldn’t do that , it promptly let the Chiefs march down the field as an encore for a game wining TD.   To make matters more understandable , each of the teams that beat us with our vaunted D, promptly lost the following week and didn’t look like the same efficient offenses the Bills lost to.  

 

     I remember wide right, and that great Bills team never recovered in playoff performances after that loss.  Wins just don’t happen because fans expect the team to keep progressing. Blowing that 13 second game, when Allen had two historic playoff performances , is something that could be analogous to wide right ; Allen and the team actually regressed in the playoffs this year , barely beating the fins behind a 3rd string qb , and then never being a threat to Cincy. Many analysts who were staunch supporters , are suggesting the team is at a crossroad and may regress.  That includes Greg cosell, Bucky brooks, florio and sims, so they don’t seem all that optimistic with the current talent. 

 

      I wouldn’t  call our situation currently green grass , more like weeds that needed a cleanup and pruning. Regardless of what happens now as Frazier rests, you can’t get back those lost opportunities.  Even if the D is worse , and the record is worse ( which i expect given the strength of schedule and teams like Cincy, kc, Miami , and even the jets improving as they nearly beat us twice despite their terrible qb play ), it seems like a change  in a positive direction to be competitive with teams like San Fran and Philly.  We didn’t belong in the SB this past year after watching the caliber of play in that game.

 I don’t see how the grass was so green ; beating lower tier competition , yet losing to playoff caliber play a third year in a row seems more like the color of fertilizer than a green pasture.  13-3 was very enjoyable, but having never won a SB and watching teams like CINCY & PHILLY,with less tenured staffs leap frog us, dampens all that great regular season success.  I think it’s fair to feel it’s possible to be better, especially having probably the best qb in franchise history playing in his prime. Change helps clarify if you have the right HC at the helm or are you just wasting Allens prime years. Maybe the grass can be greener on this side of the fence if McD has better support.  Remember , the fans didn’t make Frazier take time off; that either came from him , mcd, or above, so maybe lecture them about expectations !  

I didn't say the grass was bright green, or it that it couldn't get greener, but it could get worse as well.  And I'm not a big fan of Frazier either. Some calls were mind boggling in some big moments for sure, but these very well could have been McD.  A lot of people were calling for Dabolls head last year - how did that work out?  

Edited March 3 by BillsCuse

[colin]

16 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

It's ironic to use the Chiefs as a comparison. 

 

They fired their DC (Sutton) after losing to the Patriots in the AFCCG. Their defensive performance in that game was eerily similar to the Bills in the 13 seconds game. 

 

Per Wiki:

"Sutton had reportedly lost the support of players and coaches who felt that his "lack of adjustments has been a non-stop frustration", so he was relieved of his duties two days after the loss to the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game,[6] when the Chiefs defense twice failed to hold a 4th quarter lead and surrendered several 3rd and long conversions on New England's game-winning touchdown drive in overtime. The overtime drive highlighted Sutton's weaknesses that cost him his job, as the Patriots largely converted those 3rd downs on near-identical plays."

 

 

 

 

 

 

This post should be an autoreply to anyone (looking at you Gunner!) making some regular season stat argument for Frazier being anything but not good enough for this team.

 

Frazier won't adjust and is rotten cheeks in big games.  being predictable on D and making fundamental alignment errors is not good enough.

[SoMAn]

Could be health-related. 

Could be McDermott wants to call the shots himself for the defense and the ‘year off’ thing is just a very diplomatic way of giving Frazier an ‘honorable discharge’.  In a year Frazier can attest to how much he’s enjoyed the break at which time he decides to retire. 
 

Or maybe he’s just burned out and needs the rest but isn’t ready to commit to retirement. 

[uticaclub]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think you could argue that the 2022 Bills defense was Leslie's best year.

 

#2 in points allowed starting Dane Jackson, Kaiir, Benford, and 6 games of an extremely rusty Tre.  Micah out for the year. Poyer extremely banged up. Hamlin out with his cardiac issue, Von missing half the season etc.

 

Sure the #2 was a big of a mirage against great offenses, but it was a pretty good season considering the turmoil.  Not sure the offense sustains its production with Diggs/Dawkins/Morse missing a considerable amount of time.

The Bills defense is built for regular season football. Offense gets a lead, crappy QB has to play catch up and makes mistakes. Playoff QBs don't make those mistakes and they get shredded in the playoffs. In a close game we can't stop the run and to me 150 yards on the ground is twice as bad as 300 yards in the air even though it's only half the yardage. Remember the wind game last year, one of the most embarrassing Bills regular season losses of this regime. We lost a game where the opponent threw the ball 3 times, looked great of the stat sheet but anyone watching couldn't comprehend why they didn't make adjustments.

[Behindenemylines]

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You’re talking too much sense for many on this board to understand.

 

 

I read this as nothing but excuses. Fraziers defense was ok against inferior opponents most of the time and just plain bad against good opponents.  
 

He refused to make adjustments as needed and had no killer instinct in his approach.  
 

he’s gone and we are better for it IMO 

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

I read this as nothing but excuses. Fraziers defense was ok against inferior opponents most of the time and just plain bad against good opponents.  
 

He refused to make adjustments as needed and had no killer instinct in his approach.  
 

he’s gone and we are better for it IMO 

I think often overlooked is the fact that if Brady was still in NE, Frazier would’ve been gone well before last week. 

[RichRiderBills]

5 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think you could argue that the 2022 Bills defense was Leslie's best year.

 

#2 in points allowed starting Dane Jackson, Kaiir, Benford, and 6 games of an extremely rusty Tre.  Micah out for the year. Poyer extremely banged up. Hamlin out with his cardiac issue, Von missing half the season etc.

 

Sure the #2 was a big of a mirage against great offenses, but it was a pretty good season considering the turmoil.  Not sure the offense sustains its production with Diggs/Dawkins/Morse missing a considerable amount of time.

 

The defense was extremely productive with Von. Then, we treaded water well for a few games with Groot playing solid and some weaker opponents. Secondary and team got healthy. 

 

I think the vulnerability only came late, where the DL could not maintain consistent rush and Groot lost steam. 

 

I still say turnovers were our defense biggest issue. Offense put them in bad spots.

 

This whole season is thrown off by the aberration that is the Bengals game. I don't know why our DL had no push and got dominated. I don't have the answers for the soft coverage. 

[uticaclub]

19 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I think often overlooked is the fact that if Brady was still in NE, Frazier would’ve been gone well before last week. 

If Brady was still in New England, everyone is gone. 

[Beck Water]

Conspiracy theorists may enjoy:

https://www.oleantimesherald.com/sports/frazier-s-exit-doesn-t-pass-the-sniff-test/article_bb6b04e1-728e-5aaf-90f5-4c10252813dc.html

 

I mean, he's not wrong about the "sniff test" in the sense that I can't recall another coach, under contract, taking a voluntary year off.  "Unprecedented" is the word that comes to mind.  I think there's more to it. 

 

On the other hand, he's fluffing up the hiring of Al Holcomb as "defensive assistant" as suspicious.  We did something similar on the offensive side last year, hiring Mike Shula, and a couple of Bills press guys have pointed out differences in how Holcomb used LBs and Joe Danna used safeties as changes the Bills may wish to employ

 

He's also microanalyzing Beane's response to a reporter's question about whether Frazier would be the DC if he hadn't decided to take a year off.  Beane was asked if Frazier would still be the DC if he hadn't decided to take a year off and Beane said "Yes".  It really isn't so suspicious when you watch the presser.

 

He's not fluffing up the point that Frazier was himself a championship winning CB, that his youngest son played CB for Rice, and that what happened to Damar may have hit him personally and hard.  The Hamlin thing is pretty well unprecedented, as well.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, SoMAn said:

Could be health-related. 

Could be McDermott wants to call the shots himself for the defense and the ‘year off’ thing is just a very diplomatic way of giving Frazier an ‘honorable discharge’.  In a year Frazier can attest to how much he’s enjoyed the break at which time he decides to retire. 
 

Or maybe he’s just burned out and needs the rest but isn’t ready to commit to retirement. 

 

 

I suspect McDermott feels comfortable enough on the sidelines now to also be creating the defensive game plan himself and taking control of play calling when he wants to.........which probably wasn't the relationship he had with Frazier.   

[Buffalo Barbarian]

We fired him without firing him

 

 

[The Red King]

Injuries did not cause Frazier to be unable to make adjustments.  We got lit up in the first Bengals game, yet he proudly stated he was stayng with the plan...and then got shredded twice more before Cincy took their foot off the gas.

[WideNine]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

We fired him without firing him

 

 

 

Could be exactly what it looks like.

 

Frazier just needs time away from the game to let the batteries recharge.

 

We can all agree that last season was just a very tough season. It was tough logistically, AFC East was more competitive, lofty expectations, and emotional roller coaster with injuries on that side of the ball and then the fallout from the flat outing against the Bengals.

 

Other coaches take sabbaticals to sit in broadcast booths and be guest analysts, I would not be surprised if Frazier really just needs some time away from the game.

 

On the flip side, it would not go well if Frazier had been retained for another season and he did not have the juice for what the team was going to need.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BillsFanSD]

Reading Tim Graham's latest article in The Athletic bothered me more than it really should have.  It feels like there's a growing conflict between Bills fans and Bills reporters, where beat reporters are barely able to disguise their contempt for fans.  The reporters are always the ones who come out of these sorts of conflicts looking small.  

 

I mean, I like Frazier.  I didn't want him to leave, and I wish him well in whatever comes next.  But if some fan was a little more agitated than me about the status of our defense and they wanted a change, fine.  I don't see why Tim Graham feels obliged to tell that fan what an idiot he is.  That fan probably has a more stable and lucrative career than Tim Graham.  If we're going to question one another's wisdom as human beings, let's talk about what drives a college-educated person into a field like sports journalism, and the life decisions that led you to that point.  Let's start with second-guessing Tim Graham, and then we'll move on to random fans.

[Alphadawg7]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't want Frazier fired (and he wasn't he stepped away) because I think he is a really good DC. Has the defense struggled in the last 3 playoff exits? Yes. Is some of that about gameplan? Sure. But they have failed to execute in some big moments too and I think fans are way to quick to jump to coaching. Coaches coach. Players play. I think his guys have let him down to a large extent. 

 

I don't disagree about the resource allocation point. Or that the offense last year got let down badly. But my point against Cincy the Bills were a ***** show from start to finish in all phases. They played their worst game of the season by far in the divisional round of the playoffs. You do that and you are getting beat. I think the Xs and Os are kinda secondary at that point. It's about the Jimmies and the Joes. 

 

When evaluating his personal performance, the rest of the team doesn't get to be his excuse.  Case in point, on what was a critical 3rd and 4, and the team desperately needing to hold Cincy to a FG to keep this game within reach, he lines up our DB's 10 yards off the LOS against the murderers row of Bengals WR's.  That has nothing to do with the offense or anyone else on the team.  It was not a mistake by the players or failed execution.  That was absolutely 100% on Frazier and a terrible decision.  

 

McD himself was reportedly yelling on the sideline prior to the play when he saw this stupidity.  So while I agree, our offense wasn't at its best either, and I felt Dorsey got grossly out coached in that game too, it does not excuse one bit the undeniable mistakes Frazier once again makes in a critical moment of a win or go home game.  

 

And you can go back to KC the year before and literally look at other terrible decisions and play calls by Frazier in the final 2 minutes of regulation and OT to give away a game we should have won if not for the defensive failures.  

 

While I am not going to say he is a terrible DC, he clearly isn't given the Bills D has managed to finish with some high rankings.  But, in big games in the playoffs, he has shown he has no idea how to slow down teams like KC and Cincy.  And I can confidently say that because no one who has beat us in the playoffs the last 3 years has won their next game and it was a direct result of their offenses being slowed down, mostly by much lower ranked defenses.  I have also watched Hughes average 8 sacks a game without Frazier (5 seasons) and only 4.4 sacks a game with Frazier (also 5 seasons).  

 

At some point, something has to change.  I welcome someone new calling the defensive plays.  McD already proved him calling the plays over Frazier got better results once before, I look forward to seeing if he can do that again.  

[JayBaller10]

The reporter was certainly correct in that neither Beane nor McD seemed overly concerned or bothered by Frazier’s “request” for time off. Beane hedged when asked if he’d be back with the team next season. Add in the fact that McD was non-committal about both coordinators returning in 2023 and I think it’s clear to see he was pushed out rather than just wanting time away.

We as fans will never get the full story, of course. Neither will the media or the players on the team. The full reasons for his exodus will be as secretive and off-limits as the “13 seconds” debacle.

[FCATSurvivor]

3 hours ago, BillsFanSD said:

Reading Tim Graham's latest article in The Athletic bothered me more than it really should have.  It feels like there's a growing conflict between Bills fans and Bills reporters, where beat reporters are barely able to disguise their contempt for fans.  The reporters are always the ones who come out of these sorts of conflicts looking small.  

 

I mean, I like Frazier.  I didn't want him to leave, and I wish him well in whatever comes next.  But if some fan was a little more agitated than me about the status of our defense and they wanted a change, fine.  I don't see why Tim Graham feels obliged to tell that fan what an idiot he is.  That fan probably has a more stable and lucrative career than Tim Graham.  If we're going to question one another's wisdom as human beings, let's talk about what drives a college-educated person into a field like sports journalism, and the life decisions that led you to that point.  Let's start with second-guessing Tim Graham, and then we'll move on to random fans.

First time I’m posting here, because man do I agree wholeheartedly with how inept Tim Graham has been lately as an Athletic Bills beat writer. That article damn near made my blood boil.

 

I get the sentiment that no one wants us to go back to the drought era years, but is this new phase THAT much better that we have to stand by coordinators who clearly needed to leave?

 

We don’t need to be mired in the playoffs also-ran/always the bridesmaid never the bride status; that’s just the next level of soul-crushing mediocrity. If McDermott is on board with a shift to a more aggressive, attacking defense like he’s stated recently, then hell yes bring on the changes.