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Leslie Frazier "taking a year off from coaching" per Bills PR


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25 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Not sure its important to label people as alpha's or not. Truth is McDermott only generalizes about his being responble. He rarely if ever holds himself accountable for specific mistakes, most notably 13 second.  

Agree 100%. 

13 minutes ago, NewEra said:


I think just about every good HC in the nfl is an alpha.  Within the category of “aloha” there are different levels.  I don’t see how a beta would make a good HC.  

That's fair. I may be splitting hairs. 

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33 minutes ago, billsintaiwan said:

I like it when people use the word "alpha". It's like seeing a dunce cap in print.

Yikes. The word alpha is used by men who are suffering from toxic masculinity and in return are not much of an “alpha” themselves. I prefer the term leader. Leaders are found everywhere and they know when to follow too. Some people just have that type of presence that just pulls you in and you gravitate towards them.

 

Is McD a leader? I would say so yes, but I think if I had one word to describe him with it would be authentic. 

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1 hour ago, Victory Formation said:

Yikes. The word alpha is used by men who are suffering from toxic masculinity and in return are not much of an “alpha” themselves. I prefer the term leader. Leaders are found everywhere and they know when to follow too. Some people just have that type of presence that just pulls you in and you gravitate towards them.

 

Is McD a leader? I would say so yes, but I think if I had one word to describe him with it would be authentic. 

Most leaders I know take responsibility for their mistakes. The lone exception would be a narcisst. Clearly, McD doesn't meet that criteria. However, he has adequately ducked responsibility in the playoffs. Maybe that's acceptable? Not my style and it's certainly not authentic. 

 

I like to have the Buffalo media ask him the tough questions.

 

For example, what do you plan to do to be more successful in the playoffs?

 

How can you beat Cinci and KC in a playoff game?

 

Why has your team have limited success in the last three years of the playoffs?

 

Why should we believe you can led the team to the Super Bowl? 

 

This is where we miss Jerry Sullivan. 

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On 3/1/2023 at 10:56 AM, newcam2012 said:

Did you see the offense against Cinci? They were basically a very healthy unit. 

 

The old saying is you are only as good as your last game. Beane has used this phrase several times. However, he failed to give that massage in his end of season presser. Hmmm...

 

Both sides laid an egg in that Bengals game, so arguing about who gets the "sucks most award" is a bit fruitless.

 

BUT, on offense you had Allen whose elbow was still an issue; If not directly affecting throws, it impacted his ability to get the reps he needed in practice.

 

And you had a first year coordinator in Dorsey who had his moments and challenges.

 

So I can buy that we did not see the offenses best stuff, not sure I can say the same about our D with the years of Frazier continuity as well as the draft and FA investments.

 

Granted, we had a slew of injuries and that cannot be factored out. So we need some better karma this next season for sure.

 

I am just looking forward to some fresh perspective and energy that someone else may be able to bring to that side of the ball.

 

Not hating on Frazier, just ready for a change.

 

 

Edited by WideNine
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33 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I get it. You like Frazier(and McD) and don’t think it’s fair to scape goat him. But facts are facts. The Bills defense has been a ***** show in their losses to end their seasons… The difference between the two units is the Bills invest a whole ***** ton of resources into the defense and give Allen ***** to work with. Even with that, the Bills offense has outperformed the defense the past three years.(despite the offense playing badly in two of those three years) The defense has been a no show…. The Bills offense at least moved the ball against the Bengals for portions of the game. The defense was toast all four quarters…. Like was there any point in that game where you expected the defense to get one ***** stop? Against the Chiefs the year before? 
 

Sorry man. It’s not the same. I agree that defense isn’t nearly what it was in the NFL nowadays, but with a good game plan and creative coaching you can still disrupt an opposing GOOD offense to an extent. The Bengals have done it last two years. The Bills defense gets absolutely ROASTED with no answer the last three years in the playoffs. Inexcusable as you you give them excuses. 
 

The sense I get from you is you didn’t want Frazier fired because there is a chance it gets worse and the team regresses(And I don’t disagree) But the ceiling was reached with that guy and you got to take a chance because the goal is a SB… not to get your balls blown off in the divisional round with no answers…. How many years do you get of historically bad playoff performances before getting fired? 

 

Fantastic synopsis! Pat yourself on the back for such a brutally honest assessment. 

 

I'm in totally agreement. 

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51 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I get it. You like Frazier(and McD) and don’t think it’s fair to scape goat him. But facts are facts. The Bills defense has been a ***** show in their losses to end their seasons… The difference between the two units is the Bills invest a whole ***** ton of resources into the defense and give Allen ***** to work with. Even with that, the Bills offense has outperformed the defense the past three years.(despite the offense playing badly in two of those three years) The defense has been a no show…. The Bills offense at least moved the ball against the Bengals for portions of the game. The defense was toast all four quarters…. Like was there any point in that game where you expected the defense to get one ***** stop? Against the Chiefs the year before? 
 

Sorry man. It’s not the same. I agree that defense isn’t nearly what it was in the NFL nowadays, but with a good game plan and creative coaching you can still disrupt an opposing GOOD offense to an extent. The Bengals have done it last two years. The Bills defense gets absolutely ROASTED with no answer the last three years in the playoffs. Inexcusable as you you give them excuses. 
 

The sense I get from you is you didn’t want Frazier fired because there is a chance it gets worse and the team regresses(And I don’t disagree) But the ceiling was reached with that guy and you got to take a chance because the goal is a SB… not to get your balls blown off in the divisional round with no answers…. How many years do you get of historically bad playoff performances before getting fired? 

 

 

Just wanna bump for visibility. Solid post.

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2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I get it. You like Frazier(and McD) and don’t think it’s fair to scape goat him. But facts are facts. The Bills defense has been a ***** show in their losses to end their seasons… The difference between the two units is the Bills invest a whole ***** ton of resources into the defense and give Allen ***** to work with. Even with that, the Bills offense has outperformed the defense the past three years.(despite the offense playing badly in two of those three years) The defense has been a no show…. The Bills offense at least moved the ball against the Bengals for portions of the game. The defense was toast all four quarters…. Like was there any point in that game where you expected the defense to get one ***** stop? Against the Chiefs the year before? 
 

Sorry man. It’s not the same. I agree that defense isn’t nearly what it was in the NFL nowadays, but with a good game plan and creative coaching you can still disrupt an opposing GOOD offense to an extent. The Bengals have done it last two years. The Bills defense gets absolutely ROASTED with no answer the last three years in the playoffs. Inexcusable as you you give them excuses. 
 

The sense I get from you is you didn’t want Frazier fired because there is a chance it gets worse and the team regresses(And I don’t disagree) But the ceiling was reached with that guy and you got to take a chance because the goal is a SB… not to get your balls blown off in the divisional round with no answers…. How many years do you get of historically bad playoff performances before getting fired? 

 

 

I didn't want Frazier fired (and he wasn't he stepped away) because I think he is a really good DC. Has the defense struggled in the last 3 playoff exits? Yes. Is some of that about gameplan? Sure. But they have failed to execute in some big moments too and I think fans are way to quick to jump to coaching. Coaches coach. Players play. I think his guys have let him down to a large extent. 

 

I don't disagree about the resource allocation point. Or that the offense last year got let down badly. But my point against Cincy the Bills were a ***** show from start to finish in all phases. They played their worst game of the season by far in the divisional round of the playoffs. You do that and you are getting beat. I think the Xs and Os are kinda secondary at that point. It's about the Jimmies and the Joes. 

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1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I didn't want Frazier fired (and he wasn't he stepped away) because I think he is a really good DC. Has the defense struggled in the last 3 playoff exits? Yes. Is some of that about gameplan? Sure. But they have failed to execute in some big moments too and I think fans are way to quick to jump to coaching. Coaches coach. Players play. I think his guys have let him down to a large extent. 

 

I don't disagree about the resource allocation point. Or that the offense last year got let down badly. But my point against Cincy the Bills were a ***** show from start to finish in all phases. They played their worst game of the season by far in the divisional round of the playoffs. You do that and you are getting beat. I think the Xs and Os are kinda secondary at that point. It's about the Jimmies and the Joes. 

I think you could argue that the 2022 Bills defense was Leslie's best year.

 

#2 in points allowed starting Dane Jackson, Kaiir, Benford, and 6 games of an extremely rusty Tre.  Micah out for the year. Poyer extremely banged up. Hamlin out with his cardiac issue, Von missing half the season etc.

 

Sure the #2 was a big of a mirage against great offenses, but it was a pretty good season considering the turmoil.  Not sure the offense sustains its production with Diggs/Dawkins/Morse missing a considerable amount of time.

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2 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think you could argue that the 2022 Bills defense was Leslie's best year.

 

#2 in points allowed starting Dane Jackson, Kaiir, Benford, and 6 games of an extremely rusty Tre.  Micah out for the year. Poyer extremely banged up. Hamlin out with his cardiac issue, Von missing half the season etc.

 

Sure the #2 was a big of a mirage against great offenses, but it was a pretty good season considering the turmoil.  Not sure the offense sustains its production with Diggs/Dawkins/Morse missing a considerable amount of time.

You’re talking too much sense for many on this board to understand.

 

 

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3 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think you could argue that the 2022 Bills defense was Leslie's best year.

 

#2 in points allowed starting Dane Jackson, Kaiir, Benford, and 6 games of an extremely rusty Tre.  Micah out for the year. Poyer extremely banged up. Hamlin out with his cardiac issue, Von missing half the season etc.

 

Sure the #2 was a big of a mirage against great offenses, but it was a pretty good season considering the turmoil.  Not sure the offense sustains its production with Diggs/Dawkins/Morse missing a considerable amount of time.


Not to mention missing Edmunds, Oliver and other parts of the rotating DL.

 

Like you say, flip that around and the Bills

offense didn’t having missing games from Allen or Diggs, their 2 best players on offense. Davis missed 1 game. If Diggs/Davis go down for a long stretch what does that offense look like?

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On 3/1/2023 at 7:43 AM, DrPJax said:

     Sorry , but when your d collapses in 3 playoff losses , two of which you blew leads in, the grass wasn’t all that green to begin with.  Again , in 3 losses , the great D gave up 107 points, 1403 yards , and lost one lead with only 13 seconds left to protect .  When it couldn’t do that , it promptly let the Chiefs march down the field as an encore for a game wining TD.   To make matters more understandable , each of the teams that beat us with our vaunted D, promptly lost the following week and didn’t look like the same efficient offenses the Bills lost to.  

 

     I remember wide right, and that great Bills team never recovered in playoff performances after that loss.  Wins just don’t happen because fans expect the team to keep progressing. Blowing that 13 second game, when Allen had two historic playoff performances , is something that could be analogous to wide right ; Allen and the team actually regressed in the playoffs this year , barely beating the fins behind a 3rd string qb , and then never being a threat to Cincy. Many analysts who were staunch supporters , are suggesting the team is at a crossroad and may regress.  That includes Greg cosell, Bucky brooks, florio and sims, so they don’t seem all that optimistic with the current talent. 

 

      I wouldn’t  call our situation currently green grass , more like weeds that needed a cleanup and pruning. Regardless of what happens now as Frazier rests, you can’t get back those lost opportunities.  Even if the D is worse , and the record is worse ( which i expect given the strength of schedule and teams like Cincy, kc, Miami , and even the jets improving as they nearly beat us twice despite their terrible qb play ), it seems like a change  in a positive direction to be competitive with teams like San Fran and Philly.  We didn’t belong in the SB this past year after watching the caliber of play in that game.

 I don’t see how the grass was so green ; beating lower tier competition , yet losing to playoff caliber play a third year in a row seems more like the color of fertilizer than a green pasture.  13-3 was very enjoyable, but having never won a SB and watching teams like CINCY & PHILLY,with less tenured staffs leap frog us, dampens all that great regular season success.  I think it’s fair to feel it’s possible to be better, especially having probably the best qb in franchise history playing in his prime. Change helps clarify if you have the right HC at the helm or are you just wasting Allens prime years. Maybe the grass can be greener on this side of the fence if McD has better support.  Remember , the fans didn’t make Frazier take time off; that either came from him , mcd, or above, so maybe lecture them about expectations !  

I didn't say the grass was bright green, or it that it couldn't get greener, but it could get worse as well.  And I'm not a big fan of Frazier either. Some calls were mind boggling in some big moments for sure, but these very well could have been McD.  A lot of people were calling for Dabolls head last year - how did that work out?  

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16 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

It's ironic to use the Chiefs as a comparison. 

 

They fired their DC (Sutton) after losing to the Patriots in the AFCCG. Their defensive performance in that game was eerily similar to the Bills in the 13 seconds game. 

 

Per Wiki:

"Sutton had reportedly lost the support of players and coaches who felt that his "lack of adjustments has been a non-stop frustration", so he was relieved of his duties two days after the loss to the Patriots in the AFC Championship Game,[6] when the Chiefs defense twice failed to hold a 4th quarter lead and surrendered several 3rd and long conversions on New England's game-winning touchdown drive in overtime. The overtime drive highlighted Sutton's weaknesses that cost him his job, as the Patriots largely converted those 3rd downs on near-identical plays."

 

 

 

 

 

 

This post should be an autoreply to anyone (looking at you Gunner!) making some regular season stat argument for Frazier being anything but not good enough for this team.

 

Frazier won't adjust and is rotten cheeks in big games.  being predictable on D and making fundamental alignment errors is not good enough.

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Could be health-related. 

Could be McDermott wants to call the shots himself for the defense and the ‘year off’ thing is just a very diplomatic way of giving Frazier an ‘honorable discharge’.  In a year Frazier can attest to how much he’s enjoyed the break at which time he decides to retire. 
 

Or maybe he’s just burned out and needs the rest but isn’t ready to commit to retirement. 

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5 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think you could argue that the 2022 Bills defense was Leslie's best year.

 

#2 in points allowed starting Dane Jackson, Kaiir, Benford, and 6 games of an extremely rusty Tre.  Micah out for the year. Poyer extremely banged up. Hamlin out with his cardiac issue, Von missing half the season etc.

 

Sure the #2 was a big of a mirage against great offenses, but it was a pretty good season considering the turmoil.  Not sure the offense sustains its production with Diggs/Dawkins/Morse missing a considerable amount of time.

The Bills defense is built for regular season football. Offense gets a lead, crappy QB has to play catch up and makes mistakes. Playoff QBs don't make those mistakes and they get shredded in the playoffs. In a close game we can't stop the run and to me 150 yards on the ground is twice as bad as 300 yards in the air even though it's only half the yardage. Remember the wind game last year, one of the most embarrassing Bills regular season losses of this regime. We lost a game where the opponent threw the ball 3 times, looked great of the stat sheet but anyone watching couldn't comprehend why they didn't make adjustments.

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2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

You’re talking too much sense for many on this board to understand.

 

 

I read this as nothing but excuses. Fraziers defense was ok against inferior opponents most of the time and just plain bad against good opponents.  
 

He refused to make adjustments as needed and had no killer instinct in his approach.  
 

he’s gone and we are better for it IMO 

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2 minutes ago, Behindenemylines said:

I read this as nothing but excuses. Fraziers defense was ok against inferior opponents most of the time and just plain bad against good opponents.  
 

He refused to make adjustments as needed and had no killer instinct in his approach.  
 

he’s gone and we are better for it IMO 

I think often overlooked is the fact that if Brady was still in NE, Frazier would’ve been gone well before last week. 

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5 hours ago, FireChans said:

I think you could argue that the 2022 Bills defense was Leslie's best year.

 

#2 in points allowed starting Dane Jackson, Kaiir, Benford, and 6 games of an extremely rusty Tre.  Micah out for the year. Poyer extremely banged up. Hamlin out with his cardiac issue, Von missing half the season etc.

 

Sure the #2 was a big of a mirage against great offenses, but it was a pretty good season considering the turmoil.  Not sure the offense sustains its production with Diggs/Dawkins/Morse missing a considerable amount of time.

 

The defense was extremely productive with Von. Then, we treaded water well for a few games with Groot playing solid and some weaker opponents. Secondary and team got healthy. 

 

I think the vulnerability only came late, where the DL could not maintain consistent rush and Groot lost steam. 

 

I still say turnovers were our defense biggest issue. Offense put them in bad spots.

 

This whole season is thrown off by the aberration that is the Bengals game. I don't know why our DL had no push and got dominated. I don't have the answers for the soft coverage. 

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Conspiracy theorists may enjoy:

https://www.oleantimesherald.com/sports/frazier-s-exit-doesn-t-pass-the-sniff-test/article_bb6b04e1-728e-5aaf-90f5-4c10252813dc.html

 

I mean, he's not wrong about the "sniff test" in the sense that I can't recall another coach, under contract, taking a voluntary year off.  "Unprecedented" is the word that comes to mind.  I think there's more to it. 

 

On the other hand, he's fluffing up the hiring of Al Holcomb as "defensive assistant" as suspicious.  We did something similar on the offensive side last year, hiring Mike Shula, and a couple of Bills press guys have pointed out differences in how Holcomb used LBs and Joe Danna used safeties as changes the Bills may wish to employ

 

He's also microanalyzing Beane's response to a reporter's question about whether Frazier would be the DC if he hadn't decided to take a year off.  Beane was asked if Frazier would still be the DC if he hadn't decided to take a year off and Beane said "Yes".  It really isn't so suspicious when you watch the presser.

 

He's not fluffing up the point that Frazier was himself a championship winning CB, that his youngest son played CB for Rice, and that what happened to Damar may have hit him personally and hard.  The Hamlin thing is pretty well unprecedented, as well.

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