In a 3 year period, how did we end up with so many holes on this team.

[PrimeTime101]

1. HB. For the sake of argument, likely Singletary is going to be gone

2. Guard. say no more.

3. Tackle. no doubt.

4. WR Shakir deserves his shot as #3 next year and this WR team not getting younger.

5. DT

6. Its likely we do not pay Edmunds what he want unless he accepts a home team contract.

7. FS. I love Poyer but we need speed here.

 

We have a decision to make. We start the year at 4 mil to the good. Do we go all in on The O'Line or do we continue to draft aged vets to fil holes and live with what we got?

 

Change is needed but how do we move forward? Outside of coaching, what is your game plan? Fix one group or what?

[Big Turk]

Because that's how the salary cap and contracts work.

[ngbills]

Its what happens when draft picks dont pan out. 

[Process]

Bad drafting. 

 

Past five years we've taken 3 RBs in the first 3 rounds. 1 is below average, 1 is terrible and gone, 1 is a situation player. 

 

We've taken 3 DEs in the first two rounds. 1 is average, 2 are terrible. 

 

Throwing away premium picks for years.

[Fallser]

JA17 covered up a lot of holes for us and he was injured this year and couldn't cover all the slack that was on this team: OL a mess, secondary a mess. Epenesa, Basham, Elam and others are disappointing picks.  NFL = Not For Long...

[BillMafia716ix]

This off-season should all be about retooling the interior on the offensive and defensive lines. When it comes down to it, there’s two reasons why the Bills haven’t been able to get over the jump. They don’t  run the ball. They can’t get after the QB. 

[Big Blitz]

I’m just going to focus on oline and WR and bank on if those 2 positions improve we are still a 13 win team.  
 

Need a healthy d line in the playoffs or you’re done.  
 

 

I went in to (most of us did) the Bengals game saying we needed to score 40 - because of the injuries not because we’re bad.  So not sure why I should be mad at them.  The coaches, yes.  You can’t put out a game plan or effort like that at home.  
 

I think the defense is fine. 
 

 

Oline

 

WR

[Buffalo_Stampede]

That’s not a lot of holes. That’s life in the NFL.

[PepeSilvia]

10 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

1. HB. For the sake of argument, likely Singletary is going to be gone

2. Guard. say no more.

3. Tackle. no doubt.

4. WR Shakir deserves his shot as #3 next year and this WR team not getting younger.

5. DT

6. Its likely we do not pay Edmunds what he want unless he accepts a home team contract.

7. FS. I love Poyer but we need speed here.

 

We have a decision to make. We start the year at 4 mil to the good. Do we go all in on The O'Line or do we continue to draft aged vets to fil holes and live with what we got?

 

Change is needed but how do we move forward? Outside of coaching, what is your game plan? Fix one group or what?

Poor drafting. 
 

Bean has invested so much on the defense particularly the d line and has not had an ROI

 

While also not investing enough on the offensive line and receivers

 

Doesn’t help at all that Zay Jones was drafted in the 2nd round which could have been used on someone who is still on the team and not just contributing but making a difference.

 

The same goes for Cody Ford and Zach moss.

 

you can only mask drafting poorly for so long before it slaps you in the face. This isn’t a one off season fix.

Edited January 25, 2023 by PepeSilvia

[GolfandBills]

8 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

1. HB. For the sake of argument, likely Singletary is going to be gone

2. Guard. say no more.

3. Tackle. no doubt.

4. WR Shakir deserves his shot as #3 next year and this WR team not getting younger.

5. DT

6. Its likely we do not pay Edmunds what he want unless he accepts a home team contract.

7. FS. I love Poyer but we need speed here.

 

We have a decision to make. We start the year at 4 mil to the good. Do we go all in on The O'Line or do we continue to draft aged vets to fil holes and live with what we got?

 

Change is needed but how do we move forward? Outside of coaching, what is your game plan? Fix one group or what?

2019-2022 the drafting in early rounds has been lackluster at best.  Not enough impact players.  Too many replacement role type players were picked high.  

[Buffalo_Stampede]

5 minutes ago, Fallser said:

JA17 covered up a lot of holes for us and he was injured this year and couldn't cover all the slack that was on this team: OL a mess, secondary a mess. Epenesa, Basham, Elam and others are disappointing picks.  NFL = Not For Long...

The defense was considered one of the best analytically. There’s a lot of overreacting that happens when you lose in the playoffs, especially when you don’t show up.

 

It was the first season under McDermott real injuries happened. They still got back to the point they were last year. 

Edited January 25, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[PepeSilvia]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The defense was considered one of the best analytically. There’s a lot of overreacting that happens when you lose in the playoffs, especially when you don’t show up.

Who cares about the stats? When you play poor teams, average teams and above average teams during the season you’re going to have inflated stats

 

when you get to the playoffs with the really good teams, and really good coaches who have the players and know how to attack your deficiencies stats don’t really matter. 
 

this is the 4th season where the Bills and McDermott have been out played or out coached. He’s a good coach. Good but not great which really shows up when the Bills play better coached teams.

Edited January 25, 2023 by PepeSilvia

[Buffalo_Stampede]

4 minutes ago, PepeSilvia said:

Who cares about the stats? When you play poor teams, average teams and above average teams during the season you’re going to have inflated stats

 

when you get to the playoffs with the really good teams, and really good coaches who have the players and know how to attack your deficiencies stats don’t really matter. 

Let’s just say Chiefs and Bengals. Let’s not act like anyone else beats Buffalo.

 

We’re not beating those teams without a pass rush. Until they face them in the playoffs with a pass rush they aren’t winning.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Dick_Cheney]

Football is a game of holes and penetration.

[Bill from NYC]

12 minutes ago, Process said:

Bad drafting. 

 

Past five years we've taken 3 RBs in the first 3 rounds. 1 is below average, 1 is terrible and gone, 1 is a situation player. 

 

We've taken 3 DEs in the first two rounds. 1 is average, 2 are terrible. 

 

Throwing away premium picks for years.

How can we forget 2 first round corners to play a zone?

 

One instead of Mahomes, the other we traded up for. 

[BullBuchanan]

The defense we play is atrocious. It's a passive scheme designed to exploit weak opponents who fail to plan for it and make tactical errors in play selection. As we've seen 3 years running, it fails gloriously against talented teams that exploit its weaknesses and play around its strengths. That's exactly what teams like the Bengals and Chiefs have done for years.

Because of how passive it is, no one on the DL is really in a position to succeed. Before he got here, Mario Addison was a p[ass rushing monster good for 10 sacks a year. His production was instantly sliced in half and Bills fans identified him as a problem. Jerry Hughes, in his first year away from this defense recorded 9 sacks - his highest total since 2014. He had 2 last year starting in this defense.

There's not a doubt in my mind that Basham would be more successful on another team and probably Rousseau too. Epenesa tries hard, but he's not good enough to be anything more than a fringe roster player.

Edited January 25, 2023 by BullBuchanan

[PepeSilvia]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Let’s just say Chiefs and Bengals. Let’s not act like anyone else beats Buffalo.

 

We’re not beating those teams without a pass rush. Until they face them in the playoffs with a pass rush they aren’t winning.

You’re making my point for me. 
 

you’re going to have to go through those 2 teams for years to come to win a SB

 

and if Miami and the jets who already played us tough and beat us this year get a QB with the talent they have on both sides of the ball, you can say goodbye to the division

 

so yes, we can beat almost every team but the two best in the conference, who have better players and coaches then us.

 

take your heart out of it and think like an outsider looking in and realize they’re just not good enough players or coaches.  They don’t have any impact players besides Allen and Diggs and a 33 going on 34 year old pass rusher with a bad knee.

Edited January 25, 2023 by PepeSilvia

[Fallser]

4 minutes ago, Dick_Cheney said:

Football is a game of holes and penetration.

 

That's what she said.

[JaCrispy]

Reaching on draft picks to fill needs instead of going BPA…

[Fallser]

12 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The defense was considered one of the best analytically. There’s a lot of overreacting that happens when you lose in the playoffs, especially when you don’t show up.

 

It was the first season under McDermott real injuries happened. They still got back to the point they were last year. 

Analytics Schmamalytics, we saw holes on the defense for some time now, when Von went down, the writing was on the wall, lets be honest here...

[Gunsgoodtime]

18 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Its what happens when draft picks dont pan out. 

Exactly.  Terrible drafting and roster management is why we are where we are with so many holes this year.  The haven't fixed the Oline in 6 years.  Lack of WR focus has been awful, all the wasted picks on Defense, especially the DL has been failures

20 minutes ago, Process said:

Bad drafting. 

 

Past five years we've taken 3 RBs in the first 3 rounds. 1 is below average, 1 is terrible and gone, 1 is a situation player. 

 

We've taken 3 DEs in the first two rounds. 1 is average, 2 are terrible. 

 

Throwing away premium picks for years.

It catches up after some point.  We are at that point.  They have screwed up too many years now to fix it this season imo

[Steptide]

We really don't have THAT many holes. We need a solid number 2 receiver and an upgraded o line. The defense will be back to full strength next year. I believe tre will be back to form and I assume elam will only improve. Hoping we can resign Edmunds at a reasonable price 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Just now, Fallser said:

Analytics Schmamalytics, we saw holes on the defense for some time now, when Von went down, the writing was on the wall, lets be honest here...

Without Von, Hyde, a healthy Poyer and White what exactly do we have talent wise on defense?

[SoCal Deek]

It’s been said on here repeatedly…really bad drafting. In the last five years the Bills have found only ONE starter on the offensive line: Spencer Brown. That’s nothing short of pathetic! 

[PrimeTime101]

18 minutes ago, GolfandBills said:

2019-2022 the drafting in early rounds has been lackluster at best.  Not enough impact players.  Too many replacement role type players were picked high.  

100% agree

[OldTimer1960]

30 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Its what happens when draft picks dont pan out. 

Which is also affected by where in each round you are picking.  The Bills have been picking late in each round for the past several years.  That obviously has an impact on the quality of players left to choose from in each round.

[BullBuchanan]

23 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

The defense was considered one of the best analytically. There’s a lot of overreacting that happens when you lose in the playoffs, especially when you don’t show up.

 

It was the first season under McDermott real injuries happened. They still got back to the point they were last year. 

The problem with the way the NFL and sports fans use the term "analytics" is that they mostly focus on aggregate scores that show everything is great and don't take into consideration specific situational outcomes that would indicate why this team comes up small in big situations - this would be referred to as "insights". Why is that? Because it's a lot harder to do the latter. You need to know the questions to ask and you need to understand domain knowledge enough to make use of it. Without it, you might as well go by "the eye test".

[HOUSE]

23 minutes ago, Dick_Cheney said:

Football is a game of holes and penetration.

You can get banned for this 

[GoBills808]

39 minutes ago, Process said:

Bad drafting. 

 

Past five years we've taken 3 RBs in the first 3 rounds. 1 is below average, 1 is terrible and gone, 1 is a situation player. 

 

We've taken 3 DEs in the first two rounds. 1 is average, 2 are terrible. 

 

Throwing away premium picks for years.

Basham hasn't been terrible

 

imo he's been the most consistent performer in the playoffs on dline

[Big Turk]

35 minutes ago, PepeSilvia said:

Poor drafting. 
 

Bean has invested so much on the defense particularly the d line and has not had an ROI

 

While also not investing enough on the offensive line and receivers

 

Doesn’t help at all that Zay Jones was drafted in the 2nd round which could have been used on someone who is still on the team and not just contributing but making a difference.

 

The same goes for Cody Ford and Zach moss.

 

you can only mask drafting poorly for so long before it slaps you in the face. This isn’t a one off season fix.

 

Zay would have been gone, WR 2's don't get 2nd contracts normally

Edited January 25, 2023 by Big Turk

[Mango]

46 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Because that's how the salary cap and contracts work.

 

Let me start by saying that I totally understand that you cannot hit on every pick. But I think this answer is way too simplistic. We don't have too many holes because of the salary cap. We have too many holes because of. 

Singletary, Moss, Cook, Bernard, Basham, Brown, AJE, Oliver, Ford, Philips, and Elam have not provided enough impact. That is 11 of Beanes 15 total selections he has made in the top 100 of the NFL draft. 

KC had all 10 draft picks make their roster this year. That is certainly an anomaly, but ultimately that is where we are losing ground. Bad drafts and expensive FA to make up for them. When the dust settles this offseason, the Bills may very well have 1 or 2 players on their roster from the 2019 draft. Come time to extend the 2020 class we could very well be down to Tyler Bass and Gabe Davis.

Edited January 25, 2023 by Mango

[par73]

All those draft picks spent on D-Line, and they haven't worked out.

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, Mango said:

 

Let me start by saying that I totally understand that you cannot hit on every pick. But I think this answer is way too simplistic. We don't have too many holes because of the salary cap. We have too many holes because of. 

Singletary, Moss, Cook, Bernard, Basham, Brown, AJE, Oliver, Ford, Philips, and Elam have not provided enough impact. That is 11 of Beanes 15 total selections he has made in the top 100 of the NFL draft. 

KC had all 10 draft picks make their roster this year. That is certainly an anomaly, but ultimately that is where we are losing ground. Bad drafts and expensive FA to make up for them. When the dust settles this offseason, the Bills may very well have 1 or 2 players on their roster from the 2019 draft. 

I 100% agree but at what point does the GM have to be held accountable for average at bast draft picks? 

[Mango]

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I 100% agree but at what point does the GM have to be held accountable for average at bast draft picks? 

 

When he gets to the point he cannot turn it around.

The bottom started to fall out of the foundation of the team. He likely has an opportunity to hit one last draft out of the park. At which point I believe McD stays and BB hits the road if he fails. 

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, Mango said:

 

When he gets to the point he cannot turn it around.

The bottom started to fall out of the foundation of the team. He likely has an opportunity to hit one last draft out of the park. At which point I believe McD stays and BB hits the road if he fails. 

I new GM is going to want to die by his own sword meaning his own coach.

[Negan]

Keep Sean McDermott away from the draft and I bet we see a lot better results moving forward, send a draft guide to Beane and I'd wager the results would be better!!

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, Negan said:

Keep Sean McDermott away from the draft and I bet we see a lot better results moving forward, send a draft guide to Beane and I'd wager the results would be better!!

you can't keep a HC away from the draft. You nuts? 

[PBF81]

43 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

1. HB. For the sake of argument, likely Singletary is going to be gone

2. Guard. say no more.

3. Tackle. no doubt.

4. WR Shakir deserves his shot as #3 next year and this WR team not getting younger.

5. DT

6. Its likely we do not pay Edmunds what he want unless he accepts a home team contract.

7. FS. I love Poyer but we need speed here.

 

We have a decision to make. We start the year at 4 mil to the good. Do we go all in on The O'Line or do we continue to draft aged vets to fil holes and live with what we got?

 

Change is needed but how do we move forward? Outside of coaching, what is your game plan? Fix one group or what?

 

If Edmunds walks then we only have one starting caliber LB on the team.  That's why we started only two LBs all season after Miller went down, we don't have a third that's capable of starting.  

 

We've all applauded Beane's drafts after he conducts them, but now the realities of his drafts are looming.  

 

Allen and Diggs on offense, especially now with emotions playing a factor, and Milano on D aren't going to carry this team.  Who knows if White ever beccomes the CB that he was.  Poyer's likely gone, Hyde's 32.  

 

We have a below-average OL, Saffold who started 16 games, is a FA.  

We have an average DL after pouring numerous 1st and 2nd round draft picks into it over the past several years.  

We have one LB worthy of note, Milano.  Miller turns 34 in a few days. I wouldn't bet on him being healthy all of next season.  He was a risky signing to hopefully push us over the top.  That didn't manifest itself, the risk did.  

We have a whole team of WRs that can't catch with consistency.  

Between Poyer's likey departure and White's future status after his injury, we have no idea what we have  in our secondary.  Hamlin's also gone.  

 

Beane created this mess.  Let him clean it up.  If he's not capable, and I don't see how, I guess we're screwed.  Hopefully someone "higher up" will realize why we're here and make the necessary corrections.  I'm not counting on it, our organization appears to regularly place loyalty over performance, but hey, stranger things have happened.  

[Victory Formation]

57 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

1. HB. For the sake of argument, likely Singletary is going to be gone

2. Guard. say no more.

3. Tackle. no doubt.

4. WR Shakir deserves his shot as #3 next year and this WR team not getting younger.

5. DT

6. Its likely we do not pay Edmunds what he want unless he accepts a home team contract.

7. FS. I love Poyer but we need speed here.

 

We have a decision to make. We start the year at 4 mil to the good. Do we go all in on The O'Line or do we continue to draft aged vets to fil holes and live with what we got?

 

Change is needed but how do we move forward? Outside of coaching, what is your game plan? Fix one group or what?

Is it the players? Or is it the coaches? What do you think? Could Edmunds or Oliver go elsewhere and suddenly become dominant? Wouldn’t surprise me personally.

[Mango]

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

I new GM is going to want to die by his own sword meaning his own coach.

 

Meh, I think that is old timey. Tennessee just hired a new GM. Teams can structure their totem pole how they wish. 

 

1 minute ago, Negan said:

Keep Sean McDermott away from the draft and I bet we see a lot better results moving forward, send a draft guide to Beane and I'd wager the results would be better!!

 

The 2017 draft was OK.