NFL Week # 16 - Bills at Bears - post game thread

[BlazinBill]

8 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

We know what we have in Singletary. 100% correct and I'd be more than content to see him as the Bills starting RB.

 

Do we know what we have in Cook? Answer is no no and no. He's gone from being terrible to now playing well.  He is progessing and showing promise. By no means does he look elite or to be a game changer.  I don't think the Bills coaching would trust Cook to start in a must win game. 

I mean I love Singletary and openly welcome him back at a friendly deal- no one is paying him any crazy money so sure-

I absolutely disagree with your take on Cook - do you remember Singletary early in his career? He definitely didn't have the flash that Cook has- Cook has an explosive aspect to him and absolutely is why they drafted him-

The concern I do have with him, is can he step up and block when needed. That is huge and a need to be successful in any offense but if he can he's the guy without question.

Not sure why your seeing what you are and maybe we just have different takes - definitely cool if we do - I just don't see how you aren't seeing that it factor from him. He has a gear and shiftiness that if Singletary had the Bills wouldn't be constantly be looking to bring more guys in.

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

35 minutes ago, RiotAct said:

did we escape without any serious injuries?  Knox and Bates both came back in IIRC.  The only other thing I caught was JPhillips clutching at his abdomen in the 4th quarter.

Phillips shoulder is still injured.

 

I was watching for him and he only played a handful of snaps.

 

He took himself out early on a routine tackle, and on that TFL in the 4th he checked himself out immediately.

 

He was wearing a brace. 

Edited December 25, 2022 by Straight Hucklebuck

[mikemac2001]

2 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 That and he completed the pass and the 2 pt conversion would've been good if not for the penalty. I get there was an easier way to it, but the results would've been the same either way.

 

 

I’m saying I think he was confused expecting a whistle he didn’t seem like he was going at full speed then was like o ***** I gotta make a play 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

We know what we have in Singletary. 100% correct and I'd be more than content to see him as the Bills starting RB.

 

Do we know what we have in Cook? Answer is no no and no. He's gone from being terrible to now playing well.  He is progessing and showing promise. By no means does he look elite or to be a game changer.  I don't think the Bills coaching would trust Cook to start in a must win game. 

 

 Hate to tell you, but 5.8 ypc is an elite number, so maybe he has looked elite. Or averaging a 20+ yard carry every 15 times he runs. He has more 20+ yard runs than his brother and Delvin has 230 carries to James 80. 

 

 I just looked it up there's only 12 runners in the league with more 20+ yard runs this year and 3 of those are QBs. So he's top 10 in 20+ yard runs by a RB on only 80 carries. The next lowest attempts in the Top 10 is J Wilson Jr at 136, almost 75% more carries than Cook. To me that's elite, everyone he's facing has way more carries than him. What's Singletary top 10 in? He stands way more of a chance having 170 carries.

 

 

[Straight Hucklebuck]

21 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

We know what we have in Singletary. 100% correct and I'd be more than content to see him as the Bills starting RB.

 

Do we know what we have in Cook? Answer is no no and no. He's gone from being terrible to now playing well.  He is progessing and showing promise. By no means does he look elite or to be a game changer.  I don't think the Bills coaching would trust Cook to start in a must win game. 

Cook was never terrible.

 

I’ve said it all year and it’s obvious, if he was given 15-20 carries a game, he’d have a few 100-yard games by now.

 

All this he is maturing, he is growing, he is learning the game is overblown.

 

I know McDermott wants to see practice habits.

 

Game 2 he has had 50+ yards in the second half.

 

The Steelers game he breaks a long TD run.

 

Its been obvious all year that he’s good.

 

It’s almost like NFL scouts saw that he went to an SEC powerhouse and was drafted in the 2nd Round or something?

30 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Fields ran 7 times for 1.6 yds per carry

His season average is 7 yards per carry

 

He normally makes more attempts to run, but it would be a pretty good guess that if he were racking up the yardsies he woulda racked up the attempts, too

 

Good job by Frazier and the D

Chicago stuck with the Montgomery runs WAY too long in this game.

 

They were beyond conservative. 
 

If I’m a fan, that was like the Packers game where they just gave up and wanted to run the clock out. 

[newcam2012]

8 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Hate to tell you, but 5.8 ypc is an elite number, so maybe he has looked elite. Or averaging a 20+ yard carry every 15 times he runs. He has more 20+ yard runs than his brother and Delvin has 230 carries to James 80. 

 

 I just looked it up there's only 12 runners in the league with more 20+ yard runs this year and 3 of those are QBs. So he's top 10 in 20+ yard runs by a RB on only 80 carries. The next lowest attempts in the Top 10 is J Wilson Jr at 136, almost 75% more carries than Cook. To me that's elite, everyone he's facing has way more carries than him. What's Singletary top 10 in? He stands way more of a chance having 170 carries.

 

 

If he was elite as you proclaim he would have been in the starting line up from day one. He would have gotten way way more touches than he's gotten. I trust the Bill's coaches decisions more than some internet guy drooling over a 6 game sample size. No offense. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

post-script from the pre-game thread: I ended up watching the game up until mid-3rd quarter and then wife drove us to Christmas eve festivities a few hours away, as I watched thru Sunday Ticket on my phone in the car. So everything worked out!  

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

If he was elite as you proclaim he would have been in the starting line up from day one. He would have gotten way way more touches than he's gotten. I trust the Bill's coaches decisions more than some internet guy drooling over a 6 game sample size. No offense. 

He’s been a good player all year. 
 

Titans, Steelers, Browns, Lions, Bears.

 

The Bills rarely stick with the run for 4-Quarters.

 

Today they did, and shocker! They can run the ball as many fans have said all year despite Howard & Jeremy, Schopp & Bulldog screaming to the contrary. 

[Nephilim17]

12 & 3. Everyone would've signed up for that in August.

 

Pros from today:

Obviously the run game but what's nice is that we have two good backs we can rely on. Cook is now a weapon both running and catching. Very nice  to see we have a home-run back on the squad now and other teams will know and fear that.

Run defense. We held the number one rushing attack to just 80 rushing yards and we held a thousand-yard rushing QB to just 11 yards. People complain a lot about bad rush D and yes, we have bad series here and there, but look at the final results and how can you not admire that. And with a six-man box too.

No major injuries that I've heard of. For this team, this year, this point in the season, that's huge.

 

A good McDermott challenge. That took points away from the Bears. Good to see and hopefully the start of a trend.

 

We got more reps outside in brutal weather — that's good for us playing at home in January.

We won with a crap Josh. Yes, against the Bears but we won decisively. 

Cons:

 

Josh's decision making. He's lost about 30 IQ points compared with the early part of the season. He can get it back. And if he says the second pick was the wind, I'll have to believe him. He was crap and doesn't take the easy and short stuff the D is giving him but I don't think this will be a trend. It's good to learn hard lessons in victories right now.

Didn't use Diggs enough. But that may be related to the point above. That said, we complain when we lean on Diggs, and today we won big without him. This may be an neutral point rather than a con.

Go Bills! And Merry Christmas and Happy Hanukkah or any other celebration (happy weekend for the heathens) in your life. Be well and enjoy where we are at. 🍻

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

5 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

If he was elite as you proclaim he would have been in the starting line up from day one. He would have gotten way way more touches than he's gotten. I trust the Bill's coaches decisions more than some internet guy drooling over a 6 game sample size. No offense. 

 

 That "6 game sample size" produced a top 10 placing for big runs by RBs this year. What were the things Singletary places top 10 in RBs again? It appears you forgot to include it in your last post.

 

 The only reason he isn't starting is cause McDermott always starts veterans WRs & RBs over rookies. Which makes absolutely no sense cause he's willing to start rookies just about everywhere else.

 

 

[newcam2012]

19 minutes ago, BlazinBill said:

I mean I love Singletary and openly welcome him back at a friendly deal- no one is paying him any crazy money so sure-

I absolutely disagree with your take on Cook - do you remember Singletary early in his career? He definitely didn't have the flash that Cook has- Cook has an explosive aspect to him and absolutely is why they drafted him-

The concern I do have with him, is can he step up and block when needed. That is huge and a need to be successful in any offense but if he can he's the guy without question.

Not sure why your seeing what you are and maybe we just have different takes - definitely cool if we do - I just don't see how you aren't seeing that it factor from him. He has a gear and shiftiness that if Singletary had the Bills wouldn't be constantly be looking to bring more guys in.

 

I think you are misintepreting what I've said. I do see Cook's explosiveness and quickness. I also see him missing blocks, missing gaps, and mistakes in the passing game between him and Allen. He's young, learning, and not as dependable as Singletary. No doubt Cook can be used and should be used in the Bills offense. He brings another dimension to the offense. I just don't think he's ready to step in as the starter.  Motor is not as explosive but he's more experienced and dependable. Thus, imho he deserves to be the starting RB this year. Next year is a whole other discussion. I trust the Bill's staff will continue to use their RBs effectively. The call for Cook to become the starter is too premature and not warranted imho. That's really my point. 

[newcam2012]

13 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 That "6 game sample size" produced a top 10 placing for big runs by RBs this year. What were the things Singletary places top 10 in RBs again? It appears you forgot to include it in your last post.

 

 The only reason he isn't starting is cause McDermott always starts veterans WRs & RBs over rookies. Which makes absolutely no sense cause he's willing to start rookies just about everywhere else.

 

 

I mean how did you think Singletary played today? Is a 33 yard TD run not good enough for you? Or 106 yard running? I'd say that's a pretty effective pay day for Motor. Do you remember how he was running around this time last year? Could he be on his way to doing it again? Why would you change the dynamics of the running game now? 

[AuntieEm]

4 hours ago, JerseyBills said:

If this type of run game is sustainable,  our O would be literally unstoppable!!

 

   It is sustainable if you get the talent to build a solid oline that can run block and pass protect as needed by the play being called.  That's to get the Bills to become the perennial powerhouse they can be with Josh Allen as the franchise.  Keep him protected and given dependable weapons that will get us into playoffs consistently and as you pointed out Allen seems to thrive on primezime.  He's become very clutch and that sometimes gets him into trouble with ints or even a fumble but those mental slips and his talent do allow for him to jump over and past the mistakes he has made because as he's beating himself up on the sidelines after it seems to help him regain his focus and once he's in his zone he is hard to stop.   I can live with the mistakes when the payoff when he's on is what we all enjoy watching.  Even other players past and current love watching him play.  So they just need to build that wall in front of him and the Bills would indeed be unstoppable.  

 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by AuntieEm

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

10 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I mean how did you think Singletary played today? Is a 33 yard TD run not good enough for you? Or 106 yard running? I'd say that's a pretty effective pay day for Motor. Do you remember how he was running around this time last year? Could he be on his way to doing it again? Why would you change the dynamics of the running game now? 

 

 Yes, he had a good game as I said before I'm still a fan of Singletary. But come on, today's game was the furthest thing from a normal Singletary game as there is. In his 60th career game in Buffalo he notched his 3rd career 100 yard game. That's brutal for a guy that has been the featured back for most of his 4 years here. He's had plenty of time, he hasn't produced like a starter. Quit while you're ahead, as they say, there are no numbers that support starting Singletary over Cook.

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2022 by LOVEMESOMEBILLS

[Rubes]

1 hour ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Phillips shoulder is still injured.

 

I was watching for him and he only played a handful of snaps.

 

He took himself out early on a routine tackle, and on that TFL in the 4th he checked himself out immediately.

 

He was wearing a brace. 

Yep, it looked to me like he re-injured his shoulder. He probably thought it was healed enough to give it a go, but when he extended it on that one play, you could tell it was really painful.

 

Unfortunately, he’ll probably miss the Cincy game based on how that looked. Hope I’m wrong.

 

[Norcalbillsfan]

Is Gabe still not 100%? Watching it live it felt like Gabe was looking kinda slow. Then I rewatched the game kinda focusing on him more, he looked like he was giving 70% today. If you watch some scrambles and broken plays, Gabe runs his route and just stops and is just standing there while josh is scrambling. Kinda frustrating when you see guys like tyreek and kelce that are elite at finding space on scrambles and pick up back breaking first downs and then you got Gabe just standing there not really working to get into space to help josh. I hope it's that he's just not 100% yet and not an effort thing.

[Nelius]

Late shout out to Leslie Frazier for completely dismantling Justin Fields' running game. 11 yards. His worst rushing game of the season.

 

Frazier has shown a late season knack for nullifying the best offensive talent - did it to Chubb, did it to Hill, now Fields. He's got his flaws and this wasn't always the case earlier, but this defense has shown recently that they can completely quiet the top offensive force on the team. Very important down the pipe considering Travis Kelce, JaMarr Chase, Henry, etc. 

[newcam2012]

49 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Yes, he had a good game as I said before I'm still a fan of Singletary. But come on, today's game was the furthest thing from a normal Singletary game as there is. In his 60th career game in Buffalo he notched his 3rd career 100 yard game. That's brutal for a guy that has been the featured back for most of his 4 years here. He's had plenty of time, he hasn't produced like a starter. Quit while you're ahead, as they say, there are no numbers that support starting Singletary over Cook.

 

 

 

It's not all about the numbers. Other factors are in play. More specifically, experience, team chemistry, rapport, and reliability to name a few. All in which Singletary has the clear edge. Yet, you refuse to see it. Like I said before your numbers are too small of a sample size. We don't even know what kind of workload the guy can handle. He's light in the ass and even in college he wasn't the featured back. He has a lot to prove in regards to handling a large workload.

 

The playoffs are a whole different animal. No way am I trusting Cook to being the starting RB. He's too young and unproven. Too risky imho. I'd even argue that Hines is equally explosive and dynamic or close to it. 

[BIGBOY]

9 hours ago, Fixxxer said:

We found our running Game. Josh needs to settle down at times and take the easy completion. 

The D was superb containing Fields.

Keep underwear on! He was taking the easy completions. His mechanics were bad today. Flat footed and not stepping into his throws. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

18 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

It's not all about the numbers. Other factors are in play. More specifically, experience, team chemistry, rapport, and reliability to name a few. All in which Singletary has the clear edge. Yet, you refuse to see it. Like I said before your numbers are too small of a sample size. We don't even know what kind of workload the guy can handle. He's light in the ass and even in college he wasn't the featured back. He has a lot to prove in regards to handling a large workload.

 

The playoffs are a whole different animal. No way am I trusting Cook to being the starting RB. He's too young and unproven. Too risky imho. I'd even argue that Hines is equally explosive and dynamic or close to it. 

 

 It's ok. You can have your beliefs and I can have mine. We don't happen to agree on the particular subject and I don't think either of us are changing our minds on this.😂 But I think we can both agree it appears we have 2 fine RBs rounding into form right as the playoffs approach. It's a good problem to have when you're having a discussion on which 2 RBs have been playing better and deserve to start. It's getting late. Merry Christmas my Bills brother!! And GO BILLS!!!

 

 

[BlazinBill]

I just noticed that Singletary has actually passed Allen and is leading the Bills in Rushing.

I for one always think we should use that facet of JA17's game but am also thrilled to see a RB on this team have more rushing yardage then him for once

[Straight Hucklebuck]

53 minutes ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

Is Gabe still not 100%? Watching it live it felt like Gabe was looking kinda slow. Then I rewatched the game kinda focusing on him more, he looked like he was giving 70% today. If you watch some scrambles and broken plays, Gabe runs his route and just stops and is just standing there while josh is scrambling. Kinda frustrating when you see guys like tyreek and kelce that are elite at finding space on scrambles and pick up back breaking first downs and then you got Gabe just standing there not really working to get into space to help josh. I hope it's that he's just not 100% yet and not an effort thing.

He’s always had that gimpy waddle kind of run.

 

I just can’t buy a twisted ankle in Week 2 walkthrough is still plaguing him in Week 15/16.

[The Wiz]

[AlfaBill]

9 hours ago, AlfaBill said:

Fields didn’t run today. The Bills didn’t stop him.

the D played well but early on looked really shaken which is a Frazier hallmark. 

So I rewatched the game. It seems that Fields tried to run around a few times early on and the dline and backers kept contain quite well without over pursuing him. This rendered him ineffective. It seems I was wrong about the comment. I stand corrected. 
 

The second comment I still stand by though. 

[BillnutinHouston]

4 hours ago, 3rdnlng said:

The only thing worse than your opinions is you grammar. 

 

Ouch.

[Big Blitz]

2 straight games in terrible conditions (today was the worse of the 2 almost impossible to throw downfield in that mess):
 

Bills offense in the 2 games (no Morse in 1 and a half of them):

 

67 points

872 total yards 

Allen:  40-66 for 476 yards 7 TDS 2 INTs with 111 yards rushing 

Motor/Cook 281 yards rushing 3 total TDS

 

We’re peaking.  Against Carolina and Atlanta last year in similar or perhaps better conditions the O wasn’t this good.  

 

Anyone complaining has perfection only standards or should lay off the drugs.  

[Big Blitz]

Also, if Gabe Davis doesn’t fumble we are likely going to go up 28-10 on that drive.

[Dan in Owego]

35-13 and still left meat on the bone, still want to see someone put Mckenzie back on the bench where he belongs. 

[billsgpr88]

11 hours ago, CoudyBills said:

Bring this same energy when it costs them in the playoffs.  I'll be looking to fry your ass then.

 
Can this be the new “high level business meetings” on this message board? 😂

[947]

I was at the game. Bills fans were probably 40% of attendees, it was awesome. As I was driving into the parking lot, I saw a Bills fan dive onto a folding table from a pickup truck bed, I knew right then it was going to be a great day. I've lived in the Chicago area my whole life & been to 20+ games at Soldier field, I've never seen anywhere near that many opposing fans, even Bears/Packers games. Previous Bears/Bills games I've been to during the drought years had maybe 5% Buffalo fans.

 

Going in with my family decked out in Bills gear, I fully expected to have some issues with Bears fans based on what I've seen there over the years, but not a single one. Everyone was cool, I saw no fights, heckling, or even arguments. The cold & wind sucked, but it was totally worth it, an awesome day for Bills fans.

[Beck Water]

"Bills are a dumb football team"

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/video/david-kaplan-bills-are-dumb-football-team

 

Discuss

 

My take is that the Bills were having success pounding the rock in part because the Bears were worried about our downfield passing game.  That first INT was a bonehead throw though, with short options right in front of him.  IMO the Bears were expecting that as soon as the ball was snapped - there may be a "tell" to that play which I believe is the same play we ran twice against Miami, once for a TD by McKenzie and once for a shorter pass (but McKenzie appeared open).  After the snap, the Bears DB #6 appeared headed for R corner of the EZ like a demented homing pigeon like "Oh, yeah, it's that deep crosser they run with the fast smurf"

 

If you stop it at the point where Allen is about to throw, it appears he has Morris and Diggs; a beat or two later, he has Davis all alone on the L sideline.  Daboll would have been screaming in Allen's helmet for sure.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

6 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

Phillips shoulder is still injured.

 

I was watching for him and he only played a handful of snaps.

 

He took himself out early on a routine tackle, and on that TFL in the 4th he checked himself out immediately.

 

He was wearing a brace. 

 

15 snaps (24%)

 

Snap counts are up if anyone is interested

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/59065/CHI_Gamebook.pdf

[Draconator]

 

Santa thinks the Bills are cool

[BillnutinHouston]

Why is Santa's right thumb twice as big as his left?

[finn]

6 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

He’s always had that gimpy waddle kind of run.

 

I just can’t buy a twisted ankle in Week 2 walkthrough is still plaguing him in Week 15/16.

It may be time to acknowledge that Davis is just not an very good WR. Patrick Peterson claims he runs just three routes, and, watching him, I think that's right. He also has a very high drop rate, mediocre speed, and doesn't seem to try very hard, like when he didn't try for the TD throw with the CB in front of him; if he had, he might have drawn a PI call. With his size and ability to make sideline catches and the occasional fly route, he's valuable as a third WR, but he's nothing better than that, leaving the Bills with only one WR that scares opponents. Not a good situation heading into the playoffs, especially with Mackenzie falling short as a slot receiver. 

[strive_for_five_guy]

6 hours ago, Straight Hucklebuck said:

He’s always had that gimpy waddle kind of run.

 

I just can’t buy a twisted ankle in Week 2 walkthrough is still plaguing him in Week 15/16.

I agree about the ankle, and doubting that it’s still plaguing him.  Some of his stats are pretty much on-par with prior season (yards/catch, catch rate), except that he has more targets this year.  Maybe being on the field more and higher expectations are just better exposing weaknesses that have been there along?

[BearNorth]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

15 snaps (24%)

 

Snap counts are up if anyone is interested

https://nflcdns.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/59065/CHI_Gamebook.pdf

So Bobby Hart got more snaps than Q'berry

Gabe gets more snaps than DIggs

Phillips got 15 snaps before injury, but none of our DL played more than 43 snaps.

I thought Jonathan had some nice moments.

 

I think we'll be OK.

 

[Billsfan1972]

I didn't  see the game, but followed it and saw red zone.

 

I guess the question is that with the elements and the competition,  can anything really be taken away?

 

Obviously a great job of containing Fields.

 

[Dr. K]

10 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 Oh I'm banging the drum for Cook to start and get more playing time. And I love Singletary and have stuck up for him repeatedly because he's a solid player and he's been our only real option at RB for a few years now. 

 

I'm also not "just getting lost in the stats", he looks like the better, more explosive back more often than not over the last 6 weeks. That's when he started getting his first real chance to contribute in this offense. And imo he's outplayed Singletary. 

 

 I would caution you on being too comfortable with the same old thing. One looks the part of a featured back, with the ability to make big plays and the other looks like a typical #2 RB, the best you can say about his game is he's steady. That's not meant to be a knock on Singletary, it's just the truth. We finally have the luxury of putting Singletary at his true position.

 

 We know what we have in Singletary, he's hit his ceiling. He's the little engine that could and there's nothing wrong with that. We have no idea how high Cook's ceiling is, but you can plainly see it's higher than Singletary's by a noticeable margin. You get the feeling he could break one at anytime. I miss that at the RB position and you know what? So does this offense. With an offense desperate for big plays right now, this should be a no brainer. I think the coaches are starting to see it too. 2 of the last 4 games the carries were evenly split, each had a game with 1 more carry than the other.

 

 

 

Pass blocking

[JerseyBills]

16 hours ago, Bangarang said:

T-shirt and hat day! It wasn’t always pretty but we got the job done.

 

I actually thought Dorsey called a good game for the most part.
 

Josh for whatever reason was making some of the worst decisions I’ve seen from him. Both interceptions were head scratchers. He refused to throw the check down and pick up some easy yards and instead tried forcing it downfield. He needs to get his head right before the playoffs.

 

Kudos to Cook and Singletary who had great games. Same to the defense who clamped down after giving up an easy TD on the Bears’ opening drive. 
 

Onto Cincinnati 

I thought the 1st pick was just awful - double coverage, guess he didn't see underneath defender..

 

Looking back at the 2nd, I think he was trying to hit Cook underneath and the ball just sailed on him. I can live with those type ints