Isaiah McKenzie Show 12/12 - discusses drops, his role, and offensive malaise

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, JGMcD2 said:

And nobody knows assh*lish better than @BADOLBILZ! TM

 

True.....I identified you as one immediately.   Subspecies "gaper".

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

You’re kinda missing my point. Of course his numbers go down. But I challenge you to look at the collective passer rating for opposing qbs playing in bad weather home games in 2021, of which there were many. Indeed, The Bills team passer rating rating was a below-average 83.9 vs the Jets on Sunday (but with zero turnovers and a TD run by Allen), but the Jets team passer rating was a godawful 72.38 with two fumbles by the QB (one of which was a turnover) and zero TDs. 

I realize that bad weather penalizes both teams. I get it. But why would I want to do that at the risk of neutralizing Josh and all his strengths. Now if we had a better OL or running game I could get on board with your bad weather strategy.  I guess I'm not willing to devalue Josh's abilities at the gain of screwing the opponents performance. 

[JGMcD2]

32 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

True.....I identified you as one immediately.   Subspecies "gaper".

You’re a riot. 
 

Can’t wait to meet you at a tailgate down the road! 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Dr. Who said:

Discretion often entails less candor, but he's not entirely wrong. 

 

He's pretty much right IMHO, but yeah, so are you.

[TAinLack.]

Cole Beasley is back in town and signed to practice squad, I wonder what he thinks of that!

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

You’re a riot. 
 

Can’t wait to meet you at a tailgate down the road! 

 

Yep we are always in the same spot on Glen St. next door to Hammer's house.   We have a Sunseeker RV parked in the yard next to the garage all fall so can't miss it.   TSW folks always welcome.   This week we even have a TSW Mod attending. 😲

[WotAGuy]

What are McKenzie’s thoughts on female fans?  Did he mention cheerleaders?

[Beck Water]

 

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

I used to be an anti-dome guy.  But its become clear its a better product in person and on TV when the weather is not a factor in the game.  Now that the Bills are a top tier team, the randomness introduced by the weather works against them. It really does. 

 

Since we're in this thread: McKenzie pointed out "you have a $250M QB who likes to throw the ball" and "have you seen us play in a dome? we're unstoppable".

 

5 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

What are McKenzie’s thoughts on female fans?  Did he mention cheerleaders?

 

Didn't say.

No.

 

20 minutes ago, TAinLA said:

Cole Beasley is back in town and signed to practice squad, I wonder what he thinks of that!

 

 

and in reply to:

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Beck Water

[Einstein]

Wow. Can’t believe what I just heard on that interview. 

[Einstein]

 

McKenzie: “Around this time (last year), I think Cole Beasley had 86 targets. I have 48.”

 

Interviewer: “We have to fix that.”

 

McKenzie: “I don’t think it’s getting fixed”

 

  

[Beck Water]

8 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

McKenzie: “5 TDs” (snarky)

Dunne eggs him on a lot 

 

Yes, Dunne definitely “stirs the *****” and eggs McKenzie on

As I said, not sure the show with Dunne helps McKenzie, either mentally or with the team

 

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

McKenzie: “Around this time (last year), I think Cole Beasley had 86 targets. I have 48.”

 

Interviewer: “We have to fix that.”

 

McKenzie: “I don’t think it’s getting fixed”

 

  

 

You disagree with him?  You think he’ll get more targets?  What part of that can’t you believe?

Edited December 14, 2022 by Beck Water

[Einstein]

51 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

You disagree with him?  You think he’ll get more targets?  What part of that can’t you believe?

 

Im shocked he said it.

Thats anti-McD’s culture.

And not team centric.

[Man with No Name]

a few thoughts. 

 

I like McKEnzie and Davis a lot. Unfortunately, they are incredibly unreliable. 

I think Davis deserves another year. I would be sad to see McKenzie go, but I would understand. 

 

We absolutely messed up not getting a dome. The passing game is our strength. When weather is crappy, our stength is NEUTRALIZED. It is not a case of "both teams have to play in it" 

 

It is not 1985 anymore. There is no home field advantage to playing in garbage weather. Can't believe we are burning 1.4 billion and can't get a roof with that. 

[Putin]

10 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

I'm not gonna give an hour-plus of my life to a guy I'm fed up with. If anyone watches this, a couple highlights and salient quotes would be appreciated.

 

Does he say he needs to play better or offer excuses is my big question?

Agree 100 % !!! 
Bottom line I don’t really care what he’s got to say it’s time for an upgrade  , it’s time to invest on offense  OL , WR should be # 1 priority !!! 

[Beck Water]

10 hours ago, Warcodered said:

He's always seemed pretty open on this podcast so I don't think he's lying, he probably shouldn't have said it like this, but he's always kind of been like this. He probably actually should be asking for the ***** ball, because that's what playmakers do and if he's open and we're not moving down the field say something.

 

And yeah, McKenzie should be having this convo privately with Chad Hall or with Dorsey or with Josh.  "Look, I feel I'm open and I could help the team move the chains, what do I need to change to be given a chance?".  For whatever reason, he doesn't seem to feel that's something he can do, which may not be "on him" - he may get the vibe that he's too far down the totum pole and little regarded for that avenue to be open to him (or, it may be open to him and it's "on him" he doesn't take it, I don't know)

 

10 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

He still doesn't get it!! What does being open have to do with catching the damn ball?? 

 

There is this little point that 69.1% of the time (to date this season) when McKenzie has the ball thrown at him, he catches it.

Even for those who want to argue that he ought to be credited with a higher number of drops or whatever, that still remains.

That's second among the Bills WR.  Davis has almost 2x as many targets, but has caught just over half of them, 53.5% - which I really don't feel is Davis fault, I feel Josh is throwing the ball away in his direction or throwing to him when he's very well covered quite a bit.  Maybe instead of forcing the ball to a well covered Davis, Josh should, in fact, look at McKenzie more and earlier?

 

TIL:

On pro-football-reference, there's a tab that breaks down a WR seasonal splits.  If you scroll down to the bottom, it gives splits for down and yards to go etc.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McKeIs00/splits/2022/

I was kind of surprised when I compared 2nd and 10 and 3rd down and whatever splits to Cole Beasley last year:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BeasCo00/splits/2021/

 

I now return you to your regularly scheduled dis-off.

 

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, Putin said:

Bottom line I don’t really care what he’s got to say it’s time for an upgrade  , it’s time to invest on offense  OL , WR should be # 1 priority !!! 

 

I can't disagree that we need an upgrade at WR and need to invest on offense.

[Locomark]

 

5 minutes ago, Locomark said:

Beasley has 17 yards this year on 4 catches with a drop on a slant, so pump the brakes as your McK savior. McK had a rough game but every WR on this team has been dropping balls this year without getting hit. I seemed to remember Singletary standing all alone in the flat drop one Sunday for no apparent reason, again. I am not praising McK, just keeping it 💯. 

 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Locomark

[Nephilim17]

47 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

There is this little point that 69.1% of the time (to date this season) when McKenzie has the ball thrown at him, he catches it.

 

But, and I'm just going on booze memory here, aren't the vast majority of McKenzie's catches much shorter than Davis'? I'd like to compare this to Beasley's numbers in the slot. I'm not sure a slot receiver dropping more than 3 out of every 10 short passes is good. I could be wrong...

[Beck Water]

11 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

But, and I'm just going on booze memory here, aren't the vast majority of McKenzie's catches much shorter than Davis'? I'd like to compare this to Beasley's numbers in the slot. I'm not sure a slot receiver dropping more than 3 out of every 10 short passes is good. I could be wrong...

 

In the post you're quoting, I provided links to McKenzie's splits for this year (catch % by down and distance) and Beasley's splits for 2021, same.

Scroll down to the "advanced splits" part, and knock yourself out!

[RenoNVBillsfan]

I don’t know what Beane sees in this guy. Yes, he’s had occasional productive games, ironically coming mainly against NE. However, to consistently be counted on to make the critical 3rd down, JA doesn’t trust this guy and for good reason. They cut I. Hodgins who all he did was make 1st downs when called upon and had hands like fly paper. Now the Bills are bringing back retreads like J Brown and Beasely. Have to question this one…. 

[Ralonzo]

Just bad timing. Had Kumerow hurt himself a week or two earlier Hodgins would likely have been elevated and not subject to poaching. Bad luck, like deciding Teller was a worse option than Spain.

[Bad Things]

7 hours ago, JGMcD2 said:

You’re a riot. 
 

Can’t wait to meet you at a tailgate down the road! 

 

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Yep we are always in the same spot on Glen St. next door to Hammer's house.   We have a Sunseeker RV parked in the yard next to the garage all fall so can't miss it.   TSW folks always welcome.   This week we even have a TSW Mod attending. 😲

 

Why don't you two just get a room?

FFS.

[AlfaBill]

15 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

Gaddammit, McKittrick!!!!!!!

 

Superman the movie. Lois lanes death. 

[LeGOATski]

16 minutes ago, AlfaBill said:

Superman the movie. Lois lanes death. 

[muppy]

18 hours ago, LeGOATski said:

This the first time listening to him where he sounds too self-centered to me; borderline narcissistic with the Twitter stuff.

 

I've always felt like he has a great sense of humor, but he's taking fan comments/criticism personally.

it's called stress. He is human and knows that he has had his football performance  issues. It doesn't feel good to be criticized wether it be at work Or our personal lives. Right?  even here when I receive a reaction that is of negative connotation . An eyeroll, or vomit, especially with no explanation why I don't like it. I think lil dirty is a Very likeable guy and has a thinner emotional skin than you might imagine *shrugs* Maybe or I may be FOS

 

😏

[Nephilim17]

10 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

In the post you're quoting, I provided links to McKenzie's splits for this year (catch % by down and distance) and Beasley's splits for 2021, same.

Scroll down to the "advanced splits" part, and knock yourself out!

Ok, tons of data and perhaps a McKenzie fan can find some to prove he's a good receiver, but in the fourth quarter...
Beasley is 13/14

McKenzie is 6/11.

So when it's crunch time I'm pretty sure I know who I — and Josh — prefer catching the ball. The fact that they brought a cut player out of retirement speaks volumes, perhaps more about their current slot options than about Beasley.

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, Nephilim17 said:

Ok, tons of data and perhaps a McKenzie fan can find some to prove he's a good receiver, but in the fourth quarter...
Beasley is 13/14

McKenzie is 6/11.

So when it's crunch time I'm pretty sure I know who I — and Josh — prefer catching the ball. The fact that they brought a cut player out of retirement speaks volumes, perhaps more about their current slot options than about Beasley.

 

I actually think the fact that they brought a cut player out of retirement speaks to the fact that we want 5 WR active on game day and we have

-2 WR on IR who apparently aren't coming off soon

-2 WR who we apparently consider ready to elevate on the practice squad

   -one has used up all 3 "free" elevations, the other has used 2 of 3 elevations

-there are 4 games left in the regular season

-we lost our "next man up" WR, Hodgins, to the waiver wire when we cut him

-Shakir has not developed as I think the Bills hoped

 

I could be wrong, I was wrong about "Beasley in town" being a kerfluffle.

 

I will say this: if the Bills brought two 32/33 yr old WR out of retirement with the idea they'd be major players instead of hoping they can contribute a few good plays off practice squad and fill in for an injury, it's a pretty valid point that we don't have a championship-caliber offense.

 

There's a lot of stuff in there that says McKenzie contributes a lot more than people think, and maybe last year Beasley was a bit less clutch than people think.  But I believe folks have all made up their minds/don't care about data so I'm not gonna bother pulling it out.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Beck Water

[Tanoros]

15 hours ago, LABILLBACKER said:

I realize that bad weather penalizes both teams. I get it. But why would I want to do that at the risk of neutralizing Josh and all his strengths. Now if we had a better OL or running game I could get on board with your bad weather strategy.  I guess I'm not willing to devalue Josh's abilities at the gain of screwing the opponents performance. 

When it comes to bad weather, Josh has more intangibles to play better than most other qb’s in bad weather. Weather has always been a factor in Buffalo, that’s why some were happy with Allen coming out of college, because his ability to play in bad weather. 
 

Like you mentioned, we need to build up the o-line to better handle weather games. However, dome or no dome, I don’t really care. A dome helps Josh with stats, allowing for a better opportunity to win MVP, but as far as wins are concerned, I think the weather can be used to our advantage with Josh and hopefully an improved o-line in the future. 

[buffalostu2]

22 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Most player criticism from fans is ACTUALLY criticism of management.

 

It's not "we" who put starting slot receiver expectations on McKenzie........it was McBeane.    

 

Don't blame the fans for McKenzie being just an oft-injured $2M flier in Jamison Crowder away from being WR3 in what should be a room of 7 WR's.

Well, I can see he is not meeting this forum's expectations.   How do you know he is not meeting McBeane's $2 million dollar expectations?

[Gugny]

29 minutes ago, buffalostu2 said:

Well, I can see he is not meeting this forum's expectations.   How do you know he is not meeting McBeane's $2 million dollar expectations?

 

Signing Beasley might be a bit of an indicator.

[3rdand12]

23 hours ago, Limeaid said:

 

I suspect your suspicion is based up you being pissed and nothing to do with Josh.

you suspect correctly !

[3rdand12]

22 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Just me, but I feel what changed is that teams decided they don't need to worry about covering McKenzie and Knox and Cook or Motor, and when McKenzie or Shakir are running deeper routes they are  basically clearing/decoy routes - so they can focus coverage on Davis.

 

Davis has had maybe a few concentration issues where he's failed to bring in a contested catch or a catchable ball where he's going to be hit right away, but I think the main issue is the focus of coverage, without viable alternatives in the passing game.

 

 

Not just you. Very reasonable insight.
 Josh and Dorsey need to find Davis and make him a consistent threat.
Throw him open more instead of side line grabs.

 What happened to the timing play called the button hook?
Is it just me who is short sighted but cant Dorsey and Josh just set up the easy pass plays to Shakir and Motor to get the rhythm going ?

 Even a little Q Morris get open.
 

But get Davis some basic throw and catch plays and then build from that
Maybe same for Mck. or he is in over his head as WR 3

22 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

There were 3 targets McKenzie didn't haul in.  One, he was trying to secure the ball as the defender pushed him out of bounds, it was ruled an incompletion and it was something like 3rd and 16, after several penalties had us 2nd and 20.  I don't think we get the 1st down.  Two, he drew a holding penalty, so it's "no play", but folks here are counting it as a drop.  We took the 5 yards and went on to score a TD. 

 

Three, was a drop on 3rd and 3 where we scored a FG and apparently there was a lot of animated discussion on the sideline because other WR were open as well.  Pretty sure that's the only one that was scored as a drop, but the tar-and-pitchforks crowd are up in arms about the 3 drops McKenzie had that single-handedly killed 3 different drives and forced us to punt.

I was referring to the season, official and unofficial.
Plays I feel he should have made

[Beck Water]

4 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Not just you. Very reasonable insight.
 Josh and Dorsey need to find Davis and make him a consistent threat.
Throw him open more instead of side line grabs.

 

This is exactly the opposite of the point I was trying to make.  The point is, wherever he is on the field (sideline or middle) teams are focusing their coverage on Davis and on Diggs.

 

You can't "throw him open" when teams are focused on taking him away.  What has to happen, IMO, is to distribute the ball more to receivers NOT named Diggs and Davis.  Once defenses have other WR to cover, that will take the heat off Davis, and THEN Josh can find him.

 

4 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Is it just me who is short sighted but cant Dorsey and Josh just set up the easy pass plays to Shakir and Motor to get the rhythm going ?

 

Watch film.  You see Shakir open and un-targeted?

 

 

1 hour ago, Gugny said:

 

Signing Beasley might be a bit of an indicator.

 

It could be.  Or it could be a numbers game, where we're trying to put 5 WR on the field every Sunday, we have 2 WR on IR, Gentry has used up all 3 and Brown 2 of 3 "free" callups, and they don't feel KeeSean Johnson, Marquez Stevenson, and Isaiah Coulter were ready to contribute in a game.

[3rdand12]

So teams are two manning Davis , over and under, inside and out. Checking him at the line ?

 I am not so sure teams are playing Davis so hard as Dorsey is not designing plays to get him open. If Shakir is not getting open as you suggest (fairly correctly) Use him in rub routes and chip and release plays to get some use out of him. 

 I just dont agree you cannot get Davis open enough to increase his success rate.

 

 I do see motor and Cook open.

 

But i think i am in the wrong argument  LOL

 I am still bitching about Dorsey

[Beck Water]

9 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

So teams are two manning Davis , over and under, inside and out. Checking him at the line ?

 I am not so sure teams are playing Davis so hard as Dorsey is not designing plays to get him open. If Shakir is not getting open as you suggest (fairly correctly) Use him in rub routes and chip and release plays to get some use out of him. 

 I just dont agree you cannot get Davis open enough to increase his success rate.

 

 I do see motor and Cook open.

 

But i think i am in the wrong argument  LOL

 I am still bitching about Dorsey

 

To your points:

 

I do think you have a valid point that we are not making as much use of scheming guys open - pick plays, rub routes, a bunch of the razzle-dazzle stuff we did last season.

 

Josh has been saying a couple times recently that the QB has to be an extension of the OC on the field, which to me, implies that at times this season he has NOT been aligned with the OC in how he's seeing the field and seeing the plays.

 

I think Dorsey's idea of how to get Davis more open, is to distribute the ball around to other receivers and the TE, thus causing the defense to think "Oh, Hey, we better stop those guys from going off!" and take the heat off Davis.

 

Absolutely Motor and Cook (Cook is sometimes in the wrong place) are open, Knox is usually open, McKenzie is open more often than not on the slot-type routes.

 

We also need to solidify our run game.

 

I'm not sure it's so much on Josh, or on Dorsey, as on a sort of philosophical/vision mis-match between the two, at least that's how I interpret what Josh has several times said recently.

[Punching Bag]

14 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

Josh has been saying a couple times recently that the QB has to be an extension of the OC on the field, which to me, implies that at times this season he has NOT been aligned with the OC in how he's seeing the field and seeing the plays.

 

Last year there were reports that Coach Diabolical and Josh Allen were constantly in touch including offseason which appeared to violate rules but NFL never called them on it.  Dorsey and Josh do not seem to have the same connection yet but Coach Diabolical and Josh Allen had issues at first with Coach Diabolical constantly yelling at him.

[Pete]

On 12/13/2022 at 12:39 PM, YoloinOhio said:

Complaining that he’s open all the time about if you watch the film because he’s so fast but doesn’t get the ball 

what good is being wide open if you can't catch?

Josh personally requested Beasley and Smoke.  Beasley will take over slot sooner that later, because he can catch

[Beck Water]

3 minutes ago, Pete said:

what good is being wide open if you can't catch?

 

A Zen Koan! 

 

How does the receiver catch 69.1% of his targets, when he can not catch the ball?

[Pete]

Just now, Beck Water said:

 

A Zen Koan! 

 

How does the receiver catch 69.1% of his targets, when he can not catch the ball?

he did us dirty.  No way did he have a 69% of the balls last week.  Drop-drop-drop is what I remember from dirty

[Einstein]

 

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, Pete said:

he did us dirty.  No way did he have a 69% of the balls last week.  Drop-drop-drop is what I remember from dirty

If you’re referring to the Jets game, I’m rewatching now and the scoring drive just before halftime was basically Josh and McKenzie making plays. Other than the Knox td. 
No one in the team is as bad as they’re made out be here.