Screens/Hines

[JMM]

Ok, first of all,  yes we are 10-3. Yes we have one of the top offenses in the league. Yes we are spoiled. Yes our expectations are too high. Did I miss anything? OK....now 

 

Why can't this team seem to be able to execute a simple screen?? It's been years, and several O coordinators. I've never seen anything like it. Josh ends up throwing the ball into the ground half the time. It's incredible.  Can they please watch film on KC?? Can anyone explain this?

 

Hines. I know he's not CMC, etc etc. But I'm very disappointed they haven't been able to integrate him more into the offense. It's obvious he has terrific speed and is dynamic. I can't imagine this is what Beane had in mind when he traded for him. Any thoughts? It's really not that hard to get a rb more involved, you would think!

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, JMM said:

Ok, first of all,  yes we are 10-3. Yes we have one of the top offenses in the league. Yes we are spoiled. Yes our expectations are too high. Did I miss anything? OK....now 

 

Why can't this team seem to be able to execute a simple screen?? It's been years, and several O coordinators. I've never seen anything like it. Josh ends up throwing the ball into the ground half the time. It's incredible.  Can they please watch film on KC?? Can anyone explain this?

 

Hines. I know he's not CMC, etc etc. But I'm very disappointed they haven't been able to integrate him more into the offense. It's obvious he has terrific speed and is dynamic. I can't imagine this is what Beane had in mind when he traded for him. Any thoughts? It's really not that hard to get a rb more involved, you would think!

 

I think the OLine doesn't block it right...they block too long...they are supposed to almost "Ole" and give them a shove on the way by and then get out in front of the screen. Either that or there is some type of tell we are giving that it is a screen play and the D recognizes it...almost every game its the same thing...Allen turfing it.

Edited December 12, 2022 by Big Turk

[Wayne Arnold]

Need to bring Chan Gailey out of retirement as Screen Game Coordinator. That guy was a wizard when it came to screens.

[BuffaloRebound]

Because opponent D-Lines don’t pin their ears back against Allen.  They have to pass rush in a more disciplined fashion because of his run threat.  

[MasterStrategist]

Screen designs are fairly straight forward.  It's the execution, takes alot of practice to get the timing of the OL, Josh's drop (selling it), and RB in position.

 

My guess is they aren't spending enough time practicing these, just isn't a key aspect of Dorseys playbook.

 

Same with RB draws, sprint out draws.  There were several times yesterday we should have been taking advantage of the Jets wide nine (Def ends outside alignment and pass rush straight up the field).

 

Against Miami, I get concerned that they run a super aggressive defense and we need more screens/etc to take advantage of that.

[blitzboy54]

Just now, BuffaloRebound said:

Because opponent D-Lines don’t pin their ears back against Allen.  They have to pass rush in a more disciplined fashion because of his run threat.  

 

This is correct. Screens don't work because Allen is who he is. It's a consequence of our own success. The defense you are forced to play against us makes running screens impossible. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

Screens Lol.  This the Buffalo Bills.  Screens is like Aliens or ghost, you only believe it if you see it, and if you see it you wish you hadn't have

Edited December 12, 2022 by Gunsgoodtime

[Freddie's Dead]

LOL, the Bills haven't had a viable screen game since they cut FredEx in favor of Fat Karlos.

[Jauronimo]

Just now, Gunsgoodtime said:

Screens Lol

I don't know why screens are funny to you.  Well executed screen plays are a great way to make aggressive defenses pay.  They're usually high percentage plays.

[Gunsgoodtime]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I don't know why screens are funny to you.  Well executed screen plays are a great way to make aggressive defenses pay.  They're usually high percentage plays.

Have you saw this squad try to execute one?  Its like watching pee wee football going for a pass.  I dont disagree with you though

Edited December 12, 2022 by Gunsgoodtime

[Jauronimo]

Just now, Gunsgoodtime said:

Have you saw this squad try to execute one?  Its like watching pee wee football going for a pass.  I dont disagree with you though

I have.  They have been unable to execute an effective screen play since Gailey left town.  Its a mystery why we can't execute a basic football play and routinely get gashed by screens on defense.

[JoshAllin]

O-line and smart defenses sniffing it out are some problems for them

[Haslett_Stomp]

9 minutes ago, MasterStrategist said:

Screen designs are fairly straight forward.  It's the execution, takes alot of practice to get the timing of the OL, Josh's drop (selling it), and RB in position.

 

My guess is they aren't spending enough time practicing these, just isn't a key aspect of Dorseys playbook.

 

Same with RB draws, sprint out draws.  There were several times yesterday we should have been taking advantage of the Jets wide nine (Def ends outside alignment and pass rush straight up the field).

 

Against Miami, I get concerned that they run a super aggressive defense and we need more screens/etc to take advantage of that.

 

Dorsey and company just need to watch the film from last night's Chargers/Fish game to see how to beat that defense.

[Gisele]

Still remember the game against the Dolphins when Kelly called about 25 screens.  (Seemed like it was every play but I'm sure it wasn't.)  It was screen right, screen left all day.  Dolphins couldn't defend it.  I miss creative coaching.

[Rochesterfan]

51 minutes ago, JMM said:

Ok, first of all,  yes we are 10-3. Yes we have one of the top offenses in the league. Yes we are spoiled. Yes our expectations are too high. Did I miss anything? OK....now 

 

Why can't this team seem to be able to execute a simple screen?? It's been years, and several O coordinators. I've never seen anything like it. Josh ends up throwing the ball into the ground half the time. It's incredible.  Can they please watch film on KC?? Can anyone explain this?

 

Hines. I know he's not CMC, etc etc. But I'm very disappointed they haven't been able to integrate him more into the offense. It's obvious he has terrific speed and is dynamic. I can't imagine this is what Beane had in mind when he traded for him. Any thoughts? It's really not that hard to get a rb more involved, you would think!

 

I think the screen game suffers because of Josh’s rushing ability more than anything.

 

Most teams rush in a controlled fashion - trying to keep Josh in the pocket and many times they also leave a LB/Safety as a “spy” watching the backfield.  
 

Therefore - you do not have the DEs rushing so fast that they clear the passing lanes and 2nd you have guys specifically watching Josh that can recognize and support the screen.

 

There is some element of timing missing that other teams have, but I think it is more on how teams play Josh - which is why it is multiple OCs that have the same issue.

 

 

[In Summary]

51 minutes ago, JMM said:

Why can't this team seem to be able to execute a simple screen??

Arguably because they're not simple.  OL needs to convincingly sell it, slip their opposing D-lineman, yet not be illegally downfield.  QB needs an open passing lane through the lines or do a risky lob over rushers.  You have to have the DL rush or even overcommit rather than play a contain on Allen.  

 

Agree that we haven't seen an effective screen game since the Thurman days.

[EmotionallyUnstable]

8 hours ago, JMM said:

Ok, first of all,  yes we are 10-3. Yes we have one of the top offenses in the league. Yes we are spoiled. Yes our expectations are too high. Did I miss anything? OK....now 

 

Why can't this team seem to be able to execute a simple screen?? It's been years, and several O coordinators. I've never seen anything like it. Josh ends up throwing the ball into the ground half the time. It's incredible.  Can they please watch film on KC?? Can anyone explain this?

 

Hines. I know he's not CMC, etc etc. But I'm very disappointed they haven't been able to integrate him more into the offense. It's obvious he has terrific speed and is dynamic. I can't imagine this is what Beane had in mind when he traded for him. Any thoughts? It's really not that hard to get a rb more involved, you would think!

Be careful! 
 

Last week I said something similar and got flamed for this.

 

Again, 2 touches for 7 yards. Dorsey’s continual lack of creativity and schematic ability to get guys open with the ball in space in baffling. 

[Solomon Grundy]

8 hours ago, MasterStrategist said:

Screen designs are fairly straight forward.  It's the execution, takes alot of practice to get the timing of the OL, Josh's drop (selling it), and RB in position.

 

My guess is they aren't spending enough time practicing these, just isn't a key aspect of Dorseys playbook.

 

Same with RB draws, sprint out draws.  There were several times yesterday we should have been taking advantage of the Jets wide nine (Def ends outside alignment and pass rush straight up the field).

 

Against Miami, I get concerned that they run a super aggressive defense and we need more screens/etc to take advantage of that.

I don't understand why the Bills won't take advantage of Josh's mobility and run sprint draws/throwback screens? 

[JMM]

36 minutes ago, EmotionallyUnstable said:

Be careful! 
 

Last week I said something similar and got flamed for this.

 

Again, 2 touches for 7 yards. Dorsey’s continual lack of creativity and schematic ability to get guys open with the ball in space in baffling. 

That's why I put the disclaimers in the beginning.  🙂  But it is disappointing.  Hard to believe we can't find ways to get him more touches.

[zow2]

I think the Bills telegraph their screen packages.  These Defenses and coordinators are so smart. They see Bills attempts to run screens a mile away.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

9 hours ago, Wayne Arnold said:

Need to bring Chan Gailey out of retirement as Screen Game Coordinator. That guy was a wizard when it came to screens.

can you recall a single RB screen that has worked for the Bills since Chan was here? I seriously can’t. Like not a single one. 

[Antonio]

19 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Because opponent D-Lines don’t pin their ears back against Allen.  They have to pass rush in a more disciplined fashion because of his run threat.  

 

Oh that makes a lot of sense. I was asking myself this question for weeks. How come we can not run a screen to save our lives hehe but this may be it. 

 

 

[gonzo1105]

The thing is to set things up with guy who do things really well in one thing you have to be able to establish something else. 
 

For example James Cook teams know can catch the football and has great speed in the open field. Well every time Cook got in the game early in the year it would be some sort of outside run play. This is the NFL teams know tendencies.

 

It wasn’t until Cook started running the ball inside the tackles that teams had to adjust when Cook was on the field. Same with Hines. Can’t expect screens to work when a guy plays 10 snaps and everyone knows he’s one of the best pass catching backs in the league. Establish him as a runner more and you’ll see more success with stuff like that. 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

19 hours ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Because opponent D-Lines don’t pin their ears back against Allen.  They have to pass rush in a more disciplined fashion because of his run threat.  

 

Mahomes is the same - but they are so good at them.  A lot of that is Reid though.  

[Mango]

11 hours ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

can you recall a single RB screen that has worked for the Bills since Chan was here? I seriously can’t. Like not a single one. 

 

The Bills were noted for having the best or one of the best screen games in the league. We ran a lot of them with a lot of success. 

[ndirish1978]

20 hours ago, blitzboy54 said:

 

This is correct. Screens don't work because Allen is who he is. It's a consequence of our own success. The defense you are forced to play against us makes running screens impossible. 

 

Does it make bubble screens impossible, cause we don't run those either. The offense we run does not preclude those. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

1 hour ago, Mango said:

 

The Bills were noted for having the best or one of the best screen games in the league. We ran a lot of them with a lot of success. 

Agreed— but that was 20 years ago!! 

[blitzboy54]

3 hours ago, ndirish1978 said:

 

Does it make bubble screens impossible, cause we don't run those either. The offense we run does not preclude those. 

 

This also right. If you watched the Chargers 80% of their passes were outside either at or behind the LOS. We could definitely set ourselves up for success on the outside. 

[26TrapDraw]

14 hours ago, zow2 said:

I think the Bills telegraph their screen packages.  These Defenses and coordinators are so smart. They see Bills attempts to run screens a mile away.

Well if we they didn’t suck at it and run it more maybe they can execute. Unfortunately the Bills offense is becoming predictable. Good defenses are blowing plays up. Thank God our QB is an elite talent.