Week 12: Bills at Lions on Thanksgiving

[No_Matter_What]

5 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Statistically, the Bills defense has been very good when Gilliam has been in

U sure about this?

[Dan]

55 minutes ago, Logic said:

It would take an effort like what you describe for him to even re-enter the conversation at all.

Mahomes is the runaway favorite at the moment, with Tagovailoa having the second best odds and Josh in third.

Unless Josh turns his statistical production around quickly, he's not in the race at all.

How many league MVPs have won a Super Bowl on the same year?

[Warriorspikes51]

 

[Low Positive]

6 minutes ago, Dan said:

How many league MVPs have won a Super Bowl on the same year?

Only 10. The last one was Kurt Warner in 1999.

 

EDIT: interestingly, Tom Brady has won the MVP three times. In two of those years he lost to the Giants in the SB and in the other one he lost to the Jets in the divisional round.

Edited November 22, 2022 by FrenchConnection

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

I agree.  I fully expected them to take a WR in the 2nd round to make up for Beasley's departure.

 

This is hindsight of course, but I wish we could have traded up for Pickens.  Have been impressed by what I've seen of him.

 

But overall to your point....since Beane took over, the offensive picks in the first 3 rounds are Cody Ford, Spencer Brown, and 3 RBs.  Two of those 5 players are no longer in the building.

 

 

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Statistically, the Bills defense has been very good when Gilliam has been in

 
I’m assuming you meant offense…

 

I have no problem with gilliam.  I’m all about switching up formations and giving different looks.  Keeping the D honest.  I just think that group of playmakers could create serious problem.  

[Beck Water]

2 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

 

This is scaring me to death. 

 

I hope Josh and Von Roten are working overtime on that QB center exchange, because if Josh didn't have good hands and great reflexes, his 3 fumbles in the MIA game woulda been worse.

Just now, NewEra said:

 
I’m assuming you meant offense…

 

I have no problem with gilliam.  I’m all about switching up formations and giving different looks.  Keeping the D honest.  I just think that group of playmakers could create serious problem.  

 

Yeah I did, Thanks.

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is scaring me to death. 

 

I hope Josh and Von Roten are working overtime on that QB center exchange, because if Josh didn't have good hands and great reflexes, his 3 fumbles in the MIA game woulda been worse.

 

Yeah I did, Thanks.

Bates was snapping the ball to Allen during media viewing portion 

[Dan]

1 minute ago, FrenchConnection said:

Only 10. The last one was Kurt Warner in 1999.

More than I thought...  but given the odds there... I’m still not sure I want Allen to win league MVP this year 

[Low Positive]

1 minute ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is scaring me to death. 

 

I hope Josh and Von Roten are working overtime on that QB center exchange, because if Josh didn't have good hands and great reflexes, his 3 fumbles in the MIA game woulda been worse.

 

Yeah I did, Thanks.

If you scroll up, Josh was taking snaps from Bates in practice today.

[Warriorspikes51]

1 minute ago, Dan said:

More than I thought...  but given the odds there... I’m still not sure I want Allen to win league MVP this year 

Allen can take 2nd in MVP to Mahomes and then go win the SB MVP instead. 

[DCbillsfan]

15 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Bates was snapping the ball to Allen during media viewing portion 

Was Quessenberry at RG?

19 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

This is hindsight of course, but I wish we could have traded up for Pickens.  Have been impressed by what I've seen of him.

 

But overall to your point....since Beane took over, the offensive picks in the first 3 rounds are Cody Ford, Spencer Brown, and 3 RBs.  Two of those 5 players are no longer in the building.

 

 

Beane did draft Allen and traded for Diggs but I see your point.  Really need to keep the WR room loaded as long as 17 is around.

Edited November 22, 2022 by DCbillsfan

[smuvtalker]

4 hours ago, Logic said:

My main critique of Dorsey so far is that he doesn't seem to know how to get the most out of the Bills' complementary pieces.

With Daboll, I felt like he used every single tool in the tool chest. He had plays for Diggs, plays for Beasley, plays for McKenzie...we even had third string tight ends and swing tackles catching touchdowns.

 

With Dorsey...I don't get that feeling. 

My concern started with the lack of usage of James Cook in the passing game. Rookie or not, he was brought in to be an explosive addition as a pass catcher. Even now that he's finally starting to get some usage, it looks like he just runs the same plays as Singletary. The lack of creativity in the usage of Cook, which has now extended to the lack of creativity so far in the usage of Hines, is confounding. 

 

In Cook, Hines, and McKenzie, the Bills have quite a bit of speed and explosiveness. For an offense that has lacked punch the past several weeks, speed and explosiveness seem like much needed commodities. And yet, week after week, I don't see many/any manufactured touches for these guys. It's not rocket surgery. As others have said, the McDaniels and Shanahans and Reids of the world don't seem to have an issue getting the ball into the fast guys' hands.

I'll give Dorsey credit for one thing that he's better at than Daboll, seemingly: Getting the ball to Stefon Diggs no matter what the defense is doing. Too often under Daboll, Diggs would all but disappear for whole games. That doesn't seem to happen any more. The way that Diggs is moved around the formation and seems all but immune to being erased now is awesome. It's the usage of the REST of the offensive skill weapons that has been lacking.

Unbelievably well said.  I can't for the life of me figure out why sometimes it just seems like Dorsey either refuses or just plumb forgets that he has three sub 4.3 - 4.4 chess pieces at his disposal.  For all the maddening things McKenzie does, his speed is flat out undeniable.  He, Cook AND Hines all have that extra gear that Dorsey should be able to utilize more. I know it's not as simple as I make it out to be, but there's got to be a way to dial up at least two to three plays a game for each of them....not only would it keep defenses honest to a certain degree but it would also take even more of the pressure off Josh.  Detroit's D is bottom of the league in pretty much all categories, IMO this would be the game to unleash them.... 

[Beck Water]

17 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Bates was snapping the ball to Allen during media viewing portion 

 

16 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said:

If you scroll up, Josh was taking snaps from Bates in practice today.

 

I'd say "Good" because I thought Bates did a perfectly capable job at center when he's gotten the chance, but then who plays RG and what effect does that have on the running game, which finally looked as though it were getting tuned up?

 

Edited November 22, 2022 by Beck Water

[Dablitzkrieg]

At least we get to wear the cursed combo this week 🙃 

[DCbillsfan]

7 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

I'd say "Good" because I thought Bates did a perfectly capable job at center when he's gotten the chance, but then who plays RG and what effect does that have on the running game, which finally looked as though it were getting tuned up?

 

It looked like 75 Van Roten was at RG in the short clip shown up thread.  I think Quessenberry would get the start at RG if Bates at C.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

See the Bills send donuts and coffee among other things to the Lions for doing all the did to have the game this past week.  Hope they asked Tim Horton's to add some Ex-Lax to the recipe.

 

[Beck Water]

 

"Only Josh Allen can defeat the Bills"

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

4 hours ago, Logic said:

My main critique of Dorsey so far is that he doesn't seem to know how to get the most out of the Bills' complementary pieces.

With Daboll, I felt like he used every single tool in the tool chest. He had plays for Diggs, plays for Beasley, plays for McKenzie...we even had third string tight ends and swing tackles catching touchdowns.

 

With Dorsey...I don't get that feeling. 

My concern started with the lack of usage of James Cook in the passing game. Rookie or not, he was brought in to be an explosive addition as a pass catcher. Even now that he's finally starting to get some usage, it looks like he just runs the same plays as Singletary. The lack of creativity in the usage of Cook, which has now extended to the lack of creativity so far in the usage of Hines, is confounding. 

 

In Cook, Hines, and McKenzie, the Bills have quite a bit of speed and explosiveness. For an offense that has lacked punch the past several weeks, speed and explosiveness seem like much needed commodities. And yet, week after week, I don't see many/any manufactured touches for these guys. It's not rocket surgery. As others have said, the McDaniels and Shanahans and Reids of the world don't seem to have an issue getting the ball into the fast guys' hands.

I'll give Dorsey credit for one thing that he's better at than Daboll, seemingly: Getting the ball to Stefon Diggs no matter what the defense is doing. Too often under Daboll, Diggs would all but disappear for whole games. That doesn't seem to happen any more. The way that Diggs is moved around the formation and seems all but immune to being erased now is awesome. It's the usage of the REST of the offensive skill weapons that has been lacking.

 

8 minutes ago, smuvtalker said:

Unbelievably well said.  I can't for the life of me figure out why sometimes it just seems like Dorsey either refuses or just plumb forgets that he has three sub 4.3 - 4.4 chess pieces at his disposal.  For all the maddening things McKenzie does, his speed is flat out undeniable.  He, Cook AND Hines all have that extra gear that Dorsey should be able to utilize more. I know it's not as simple as I make it out to be, but there's got to be a way to dial up at least two to three plays a game for each of them....not only would it keep defenses honest to a certain degree but it would also take even more of the pressure off Josh.  Detroit's D is bottom of the league in pretty much all categories, IMO this would be the game to unleash them.... 

 

Not saying this is wrong, but can recall similar comments made about Daboll too.  Many posters wanted to run him out of town the 1st couple of years.  Admittedly we didn't have an overall roster nearly as strong as we do now either.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Ed_Formerly_of_Roch

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

 

[frostbitmic]

13 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

It looked like 75 Van Roten was at RG in the short clip shown up thread.  I think Quessenberry would get the start at RG if Bates at C.

Quessenberry is our #3 OT right now, I don't think they risk him starting at Guard.

 

Van Roten is now the only backup to Bates at Center, so I don't think he starts, which leaves us with Bobby Hart at RG.

[Straight Hucklebuck]

Morse didn't practice today...

[johnk]

Romo - Griffin - Mic'd Up 

 

Happy Gobbler Day.... Go Bills.  

[nosejob]

5 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Quessenberry is our #3 OT right now, I don't think they risk him starting at Guard.

 

Van Roten is now the only backup to Bates at Center, so I don't think he starts, which leaves us with Bobby Hart at RG.

i wouldn't be surprised if at some time they take a look at Alec Anderson at RG. They said during camp and pre season that he doesn't lose his matchups. 6'5 310?

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Under McDermott, the Bills are 9-11 when wearing white on blue, with the combo not being used at all ever since the Jacksonville debacle last year. This is a huge gamble by the Bills.

 

The Bills' winning percentage in every other uniform combo is WAY over .500, not even close to this at all.

 

I think white on blue was used in the Dallas Thanksgiving game.  I'm not superstitious so I dont believe uniform combos affect anything.  Unless maybe some blend might affect QB vision.

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

1 hour ago, FLFan said:

Of all the silly conversations around this board lately, uniform color and odds of winning is perhaps the silliest.  Maybe you should offer your lucky rabbits foot to McD for the game?  

You can say it's silly, but how do you respond to the facts? Do you think it's just a coincidence that their record in these uniforms is way worse?

[Franco_92]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

 

I think white on blue was used in the Dallas Thanksgiving game.  I'm not superstitious so I dont believe uniform combos affect anything.  Unless maybe some blend might affect QB vision.

Pretty sure they wore blue on blue for Dallas. At the very least it was blue on white 

[Giuseppe Tognarelli]

1 minute ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I think white on blue was used in the Dallas Thanksgiving game.  I'm not superstitious so I dont believe uniform combos affect anything.  Unless maybe some blend might affect QB vision.

Nope, blue on blue

[Scott7975]

9 minutes ago, arcane said:

Pretty sure they wore blue on blue for Dallas. At the very least it was blue on white 

 

8 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

Nope, blue on blue

 

ah you are correct blue on blue.  

 

White jersey, blue pants
47 percent win percentage (9-10) since 2017

The least aesthetically pleasing entry for the Bills are the white-on-blue uniforms, and they reflect the inverse of the “look good, play good” mantra. Buffalo wore these uniforms to beat the Patriots on Monday Night Football in 2020 and claim their position as the new Kings of the AFC East, but that’s their only notable win with the pairing. Now back to those big or important losses we talked about at the beginning of the article; Wild Card 2017, Wild Card 2019, Titans 2020, “Hail Murray,” AFC Championship Game 2020, and the Titans 2021. It’s the list of literally every big loss of Sean McDermott’s career.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Scott7975

[Mark Vader]

5 hours ago, HappyDays said:

This is crazy.

 

 

The Bills cannot afford these mistakes.

[NewEra]

15 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

You can say it's silly, but how do you respond to the facts? Do you think it's just a coincidence that their record in these uniforms is way worse?

So you really think the uniforms are having an impact on wins and losses?

[DCbillsfan]

42 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Quessenberry is our #3 OT right now, I don't think they risk him starting at Guard.

 

Van Roten is now the only backup to Bates at Center, so I don't think he starts, which leaves us with Bobby Hart at RG.

True, I forgot about Hart.

[Mark Vader]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

 

It'll be nice to have Kaiir Elam back.

 

No Rousseau & no Epenesa leaves us with 3 healthy DE's! Time to call up Mike Love?

[NewEra]

Feels like no Rousseau, Tremaine, AJ or Morse.  

12 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

It'll be nice to have Kaiir Elam back.

 

No Rousseau & no Epenesa leaves us with 3 healthy DE's! Time to call up Mike Love?

For sure

[Mikie2times]

This will not be a roll over game, not with the way the Lions have been playing on offense.

 

The Lions were a 3 point underdog to the Giants on the road. So Vegas see's them as even, DVOA has the Lions 6 spots ahead of the Giants.

 

To give you an idea, 4 spots ahead of the Lions, is Tennessee, 3 spots ahead are the Jets, 2 spots ahead are the Packers, 1 spot ahead are the Browns. We have played all 4 teams. I would not use the Titans game for reference, we were so much healthier and crisp at that time.

 

Against the Packers, Browns, and Jets we went 2-1 with an average score of 25-20. The Lions are ranked much higher in DVOA in the weighted version. I used the non weighted version. Just as we are ranked lower in the weighted version (#1 non weighted).  

 

We should win, yes, but this is not the same old Lions. They can threaten us. We will have to play well. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Lions are in the playoff discussion at years end.  

Edited November 22, 2022 by KzooMike

[Straight Hucklebuck]

4 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

This will not be a roll over game, not with the way the Lions have been playing on offense.

 

The Lions were a 3 point underdog to the Giants on the road. So Vegas see's them as even, DVOA has the Lions 6 spots ahead of the Giants.

 

To give you an idea, 4 spots ahead of the Lions, is Tennessee, 3 spots ahead are the Jets, 2 spots ahead are the Packers, 1 spot ahead are the Browns. We have played all 4 teams. I would not use the Titans game for reference, we were so much healthier and crisp at that time.

 

Against the Packers, Browns, and Jets we went 2-1 with an average score of 25-20. The Lions are ranked much higher in DVOA in the weighted version. I used the non weighted version. Just as we are ranked lower in the weighted version (#1 non weighted).  

 

We should win, yes, but this is not the same old Lions. They can threaten us. We will have to play well. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Lions are in the playoff discussion at years end.  

Yes, and what is the tipping point when it comes to injuries? 

We're not getting players back as fast as we are losing them.

 

Thursday is setting up for no Rousseau, Edmunds, Morse, Epenesa. 

 

 

[No_Matter_What]

23 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

It'll be nice to have Kaiir Elam back.

 

No Rousseau & no Epenesa leaves us with 3 healthy DE's! Time to call up Mike Love?

Seems like a certainty right now.

[teef]

51 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

You can say it's silly, but how do you respond to the facts? Do you think it's just a coincidence that their record in these uniforms is way worse?

you don't think this is true...do you?

[boyst]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

Thanks for this.

All of what you say may be true, and if so, it adds another concern: Lack of adaptability.

 

I think the best offensive coordinators build their offense around the personnel they have. If they don't happen to have their ideal personnel, they adapt to what they DO have and make it work anyway. In fairness to Dorsey, the Bills are #2 in YPG and PPG and #3 in Yards Per Play. So I can't exactly say that he's NOT making it work.

Still, whether Cook, Hines, and McKenzie are his idea of great personnel or not, it's who he's got, so I'd like to see him dial up some winning plays for them.

I've been out doing chores all afternoon and had the thoughts come up about this team with respect to Ken Dorsey. And I just keep going back to the idea on his desire to have two tight ends. He's mentioned this many times to the media. And all I can come up with is that his time in Miami had Jeremy shockey and Kellen Winslow Jr as his tight ends. I don't remember enough about the Miami offense at that period to get technical but I know those two players dominated defenses even with a fully star-studded wide receiver unit. 

 

We need some experts to go back to those early 2000s Miami teams to think about what Dorsey may want to do long-term in the NFL with regard to double tight end sets.

[947]

We've been getting absolutely killed by WR1s on teams who don't have much as far as secondary receivers. Jefferson & Amari Cooper were open on just about every play. And we still didn't adjust anything toward them.

 

Amon-Ra St Brown will do the same if we don't double, or at least bracket him, they have literally nothing at receiver besides him.