Poor coaching by McDermott is becoming a theme

[whorlnut]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Question...Did John Fox open the season demolishing the defending champs and then the AFC number 1 seed in back to back weeks...so much so, we had start benching starters in the 3rd Quarter?

 

Did he follow that game up with having to go on the road on a short week missing half of his defensive starters and starting OC just to lose 5 more guys who started that game and several backups, including 5 OL?  While also playing in extreme heat with no relief and seeing not injuried starters have to keep coming out of the game for fluids and cramping?  

 

If not...then everyone needs to pipe down.  McD and Beane were the toast of the NFL a week ago, then in an extreme situation game some breaks didn't go our way.  Is it McD's fault Van Roten botched a snap at end of half costing us a FG attempt?  Is it McD's fault Bass shanked a gimme FG?  Is it McD's fault Milano dropped a pick 6?  Is it McD's fault McKenzie didn't run straight out of bounds giving us enough time for one more play for yards on the sideline at end of game?  Is it McD's fault the 2nd and 3rd string OL while having been on the field almost an entire quarter with no one to sub in, no shade, no breaks was gassed down the stretch?  

 

I mean we took NINETY THREE offensive plays compared to their 39 and dominated the time of possession.  And there is a thread today about whether or not our Defensive coach needs to be fired for someone who knows offense?  

 

How about we just need to get healthy and we have the best team and roster in the NFL?

I don’t think it’s for the reasons you listed. I think people are starting wake up to the fact that we have almost nothing on offense beyond Allen and Diggs while the defense is loaded from top to bottom. 
 

Our line is average at best. At best. Saffold hasn’t been good and Bates might be better suited as a backup. There wasn’t any competition brought in for bates this off-season. He was handed the job. Not only that, but the depth talent is very low. Bottom line is we haven’t done enough to take the line to the next level. Heck, our qb is our leading rusher almost week in and week out. 
 

Im also concerned about the receiver depth. We took Shakir, who is inactive. We did take cook and I’m still a little surprised we did that, but I like him. It was a breath of fresh air. Now we need to keep adding weapons in case Davis or Diggs go down. We still have almost no speed at all.

[HomeskillitMoorman]

I definitely think there's some legitimate reasons to be concerned with McD. I think we can still win a championship with him here, but I do think a better in-game coach could possibly win more. 

 

But there is a contingent here that never wants to hear anything negative about him. It's almost a cult-like following. They don't really even debate half the time. 

[whorlnut]

12 minutes ago, Logic said:

If you believe that the Bills are the best team in the league, then it necessarily follows that McDermott must be a very good coach. You don't play as exciting and dominant a brand of football as the Bills play without good coaching.

Think about the best parts of this roster -- Hyde and Poyer, Tre White, Von Miller, Josh Allen, Stefon Diggs....none of them would be the factors they are for Buffalo if it were not for McDermott.

It was McDermott that took two unwanted corners in free agency and coached them up into All-Pro safeties. It was McDermott that coached an afterthought draftee at cornerback into a top five corner in the league. It was the culture that McDermott built that lured Von Miller here and that has helped make Stefon Diggs happy enough here that he remains supremely productive and wants to finish his career in Buffalo. And last but not least...Josh Allen. The patience, consistency, and support this coaching staff has given Allen, thus allowing him to become the best QB in the league, has been MASTERFUL.

I get it -- McDermott is an elite Monday through Saturday coach and sometimes not quite as elite on Sundays. His game management is not always perfect. Very few coaches have perfect game management. Andy Reid STILL struggles with it, and he has a Lombardi and multiple NFC and AFC Championship Game apperances. 

The bottom line is that it's not reasonable to only point out the flaws in McDermott's coaching without also pointing out the absolutely ELITE job he's done coaching up the Bills roster, fostering an environment in which a raw QB prospect could ascend to greatness, and ultimately creating a consistent championship contending team. 

For anyone that thinks it would be easy to find a coaching upgrade to Sean McDermott, I beg you to look around the league and follow its annual hiring and firing cycle. Coaching turnover in the NFL is CONSTANT. Consistently good head coaches are incredibly hard to find. Who's walking through the door that's better than McDermott? Be careful what you wish for.

Listen…I like McD. He’s a good culture guy. I just question his abilities in big moments. He is the James Franklin of pro football to me. Great rah rah guy, culture builder, and motivator, but leaves a lot to be desired in game situations. 

[GunnerBill]

16 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 

McDermott has only one objective, and that's winning.   If he's not winning, he wants to correct it.  

 

Then he should tell his GM to get him some blockers.

[Shaw66]

21 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

And the Davis catch was not a touchdown. 

 

You have to catch, control, two feet AND a move common to the game. He didn't have the last bit. 

 

No way would that have been overturned.

Hey, Gun, I don't know the rule, so maybe you can explain further.    If I do a real tight-rope, two-toe drag and catch the ball falling to the ground out of bounds, I never make a move common to the game, except falling down.  

 

I would think the rule would be different in the end zone.  After I've caught the ball in the end zone and I have two feet on the ground, there is no move to make that's "common to the game."  What's common?  A spike, a dance?   I mean, after catching the ball for a TD, receivers don't make a "move common to the game," at least not that in any way at all has any relevance to the game. 

 

I thought that the rule was, or maybe I just assumed the rule was, that possession, tuck the ball, and two feet in the end zone (all of which Davis had) ends the play, unless the receiver was on his way to the ground, in which case he still has to maintain control through hitting the ground.   

 

Do you know the answer to that, or do you have a theory about it?

[Wraith]

23 hours ago, Einstein said:

- 0 and 7 in one score games the last two seasons

 

 

This talking point I keep hearing is ridiculous and shows a complete lack of critical thinking. Winning a lot of games by a big margin and losing a few games by a small margin is what good teams do. It is how sports work. Not to mention the Bills actually won their share of close games last year too:

 

- Week 8: Bills were up 6 to Miami with under 4 minutes to go. Does not count to you because they took care of business and won by 15.

- Week 16: Bills were up 5 to New England with under 3 minutes to go. Does not count to you because of that crazy drive to seal the game and division lead.

- Week 18: Bills were up 3 to New York Jets with under 9 minutes to go. Ignored because they took over the game in the final minutes and pulled away.

 

Are we supposed to take serious your argument that the Bills would have been a better team if the offense didn't come through late to pull away in those games and instead they hung on by fewer points? It is nonsense.

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Wraith

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Then he should tell his GM to get him some blockers.

Well, that may be true, but blockers aren't the answer to the problem, if it actually is a problem and not just coincidence, that the Bills do not win close games.  The answer to that problem is much more likely to be found in how the team is prepared for the game, the skills and habits the players have.   I'm not sure his GM has done so badly.  About the most you can ask for from the GM is a solid starting five - having a solid oline depth is tough.   What you hope for is to have a solid group of starters, then when one goes down, the four can carry the fifth a bit.  When you're good but not superb to begin with, and three go down, you only have two left to carry them, and that is not going to work.    

 

Beyond that, winning close games at the end is when playcalling on both sides of the ball becomes critical.  Based on your preparation and what you've learned from the game, you have to have the plays and the formations that will allow your players to create opportunities and take advantage of them.  When you're consistently losing close games, what it suggests is that your coaches don't have the in-game answers.   Yesterday, it was Dorsey.  There had to have been ways to win that game.   We saw them in multiple offensive failures.   One might try to lay all those failures at the feet of the oline, but I think it was more than that.  I can be patient with Dorsey - I think he's the right guy, but he has a lot to learn.  Even the very best young coordinators make mistakes, sometimes big mistakes, in games early in their careers, because it isn't easy.   But even if I'm willing to give him a pass for a while, it still doesn't change the fact that this is an aspect of their game that the Bills need to get better at, and it would be nice not to waste another entire season learning how.    

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

33 minutes ago, MJS said:

Then you are drunk. There is a 0.0% chance that McDermott will be on the hot seat after this year if they don't make the superbowl.

 

You clearly do not follow the league. You suffer from Bills myopia.

 

John Fox, as Head Coach of the Broncos with Peyton Manning went 13-3, 13-3, and 12-4 in the regular season and 2-3 in the playoffs (1 SB appearance). He was fired after the 12-4 season. 

 

I don't think McD will be fired for not making the SB, but he'll be on the hot seat. 

 

Expectations are a hell of a drug and the expectation for this Bills roster is Superbowl. 

[Dr.Sack]

The mark of a good coach is how they respond to adversity. The Ravens next week represent that challenge.

[whorlnut]

36 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:

I definitely think there's some legitimate reasons to be concerned with McD. I think we can still win a championship with him here, but I do think a better in-game coach could possibly win more. 

 

But there is a contingent here that never wants to hear anything negative about him. It's almost a cult-like following. They don't really even debate half the time. 

I agree 100%. There are some on here that don’t ever want to hear criticism about McD. I respect the guy for helping us get back to being relevant, but I want more. I want him to hike up his pants and dig in in clutch situations. I want him to put more emphasis on the offensive line. I just feel like it’s not horrible to have some doubts, especially after the 13 second debacle. 

[Captain Hindsight]

1 hour ago, IronMaidenBills said:

I would take Sean Payton over McD in a heartbeat. 

Why? They are the same coach. Dude went 500 in the playoffs with Drew Brees and lost some crazy games in the playoffs. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/McDeSe0.htm

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/PaytSe0.htm

 

Payton is a good coach, I don't think he's a major upgrade over McDermott

[Punching Bag]

22 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Forgot  about that.

Thank you for pointing it out. I’ll add it.

 

You should read Jerry Sullivan column to get more ideas,

[Einstein]

2 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

You should read Jerry Sullivan column to get more ideas,

 

Jerry is a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian. He is not a critical thinker. I do not align with him.

[GunnerBill]

47 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Hey, Gun, I don't know the rule, so maybe you can explain further.    If I do a real tight-rope, two-toe drag and catch the ball falling to the ground out of bounds, I never make a move common to the game, except falling down.  

 

I would think the rule would be different in the end zone.  After I've caught the ball in the end zone and I have two feet on the ground, there is no move to make that's "common to the game."  What's common?  A spike, a dance?   I mean, after catching the ball for a TD, receivers don't make a "move common to the game," at least not that in any way at all has any relevance to the game. 

 

I thought that the rule was, or maybe I just assumed the rule was, that possession, tuck the ball, and two feet in the end zone (all of which Davis had) ends the play, unless the receiver was on his way to the ground, in which case he still has to maintain control through hitting the ground.   

 

Do you know the answer to that, or do you have a theory about it?

 

The rule is still move common to the game (which can include the tuck) or the time to make such a move. He doesn't complete the tuck. As the ball is coming in towards his body the DB punches it out. It is incomplete. 

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

How many times are you gonna start this thread @Einstein?

 

We get the message. You'd fire McDermott because he is cautious with injuries, takes time outs when you wouldn't and Mike Florio says so. 

 

Next time you come up with a new reason why not add it to one of your existing threads?

 

You’re right. I should have done that.

[GunnerBill]

34 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Well, that may be true, but blockers aren't the answer to the problem, if it actually is a problem and not just coincidence, that the Bills do not win close games.  The answer to that problem is much more likely to be found in how the team is prepared for the game, the skills and habits the players have.   I'm not sure his GM has done so badly.  About the most you can ask for from the GM is a solid starting five - having a solid oline depth is tough.   What you hope for is to have a solid group of starters, then when one goes down, the four can carry the fifth a bit.  When you're good but not superb to begin with, and three go down, you only have two left to carry them, and that is not going to work.    

 

Beyond that, winning close games at the end is when playcalling on both sides of the ball becomes critical.  Based on your preparation and what you've learned from the game, you have to have the plays and the formations that will allow your players to create opportunities and take advantage of them.  When you're consistently losing close games, what it suggests is that your coaches don't have the in-game answers.   Yesterday, it was Dorsey.  There had to have been ways to win that game.   We saw them in multiple offensive failures.   One might try to lay all those failures at the feet of the oline, but I think it was more than that.  I can be patient with Dorsey - I think he's the right guy, but he has a lot to learn.  Even the very best young coordinators make mistakes, sometimes big mistakes, in games early in their careers, because it isn't easy.   But even if I'm willing to give him a pass for a while, it still doesn't change the fact that this is an aspect of their game that the Bills need to get better at, and it would be nice not to waste another entire season learning how.    

 

5 of the last 7 defeats the Bills offense has had the ball at the end with the chance to win the game and in 4 of those 5 there were serious OL breakdowns that killed those drives. I listed them yesterday. You are going to have some close games in the NFL. It is the nature of the beast. Watch redzone every week. Games come down to the final drive. For a team with an elite QB to have the ball with a chance to win 5 times in 7 defeats and to go 0 fer is a major, major anomoly. And go and look at the play by plays. Protection, protection, protection. 

 

It was the biggest problem last year. It cost us the 1 seed. And it remains, I fear, a major weakness.

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

5 of the last 7 defeats the Bills offense has had the ball at the end with the chance to win the game and in 4 of those 5 there were serious OL breakdowns that killed those drives. I listed them yesterday. You are going to have some close games in the NFL. It is the nature of the beast. Watch redzone every week. Games come down to the final drive. For a team with an elite QB to have the ball with a chance to win 5 times in 7 defeats and to go 0 fer is a major, major anomoly. And go and look at the play by plays. Protection, protection, protection. 

 

It was the biggest problem last year. It cost us the 1 seed. And it remains, I fear, a major weakness.

 

All 7 of those games also had questionable coaching decisions that lead to needing a last minute drive.

[Punching Bag]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Jerry is a contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian. He is not a critical thinker. I do not align with him.

 

Your posts do not demonstrate that.

[Ramza86]

I like McDermott as the guy that brings the team together.

 

I just hate that he makes in game decisions. Hes not getting any better at it.

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Limeaid said:

 

Your posts do not demonstrate that.

 

Your interpretation of my posts.

[Royale with Cheese]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

5 of the last 7 defeats the Bills offense has had the ball at the end with the chance to win the game and in 4 of those 5 there were serious OL breakdowns that killed those drives. I listed them yesterday. You are going to have some close games in the NFL. It is the nature of the beast. Watch redzone every week. Games come down to the final drive. For a team with an elite QB to have the ball with a chance to win 5 times in 7 defeats and to go 0 fer is a major, major anomoly. And go and look at the play by plays. Protection, protection, protection. 

 

It was the biggest problem last year. It cost us the 1 seed. And it remains, I fear, a major weakness.

 

What would your solution be?  It seems like we don't get push up the middle and get stuffed.

 

Maybe a jumbo package and give Cook an option to go wide?...Moss runs into the back of our guards a lot.

[Dr.Sack]

We only ran out of time in the first half and second. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

All 7 of those games also had questionable coaching decisions that lead to needing a last minute drive.

 

Maybe, but watch the NFL. Every game does. You can't win a blow out every week in the NFL. It has never and will never work that way. Eventually you have to win games that come down to the end. Of those 7 defeats, 6 did. Only one of them were the defense on the field at the end (in KC, where no doubt coaching blew it). The other 5 the offense did. When you have an elite QB (the Bills do) you should be worst .500 in those games. The Bills are 0 fer 5 with Josh freaking Allen. And the pattern is clear.

[blacklabel]

Poor posting by "Einstein" has become a trend....as if it was ever anything different. 

 

Your username should be revoked. A man as intelligent as Einstein would never be associated with such dumper takes. 

[RyanC883]

1 minute ago, Dr.Sack said:

We only ran out of time in the first half and second. 

 

don’t forget totally folding on a soft cover D on 3rd and 22 !

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

What would your solution be?  It seems like we don't get push up the middle and get stuffed.

 

Maybe a jumbo package and give Cook an option to go wide?...Moss runs into the back of our guards a lot.

 

My solution would have been to improve the interior OL in the summer with more than a 34 year old guard on his last legs. 

 

But given that is water under the bridge I'd scrap the zone blocking in the run game and go back to the gap plays we ran with a bit more success at the end of last season. But that doesn't solve the end of game, everyone knows you are passing plays, where ultimately it comes down to your guys vs theirs. I don't know how you fix that without better players. 

[Dr.Sack]

6 minutes ago, RyanC883 said:

 

don’t forget totally folding on a soft cover D on 3rd and 22 !

Reminded me of the soft d from 13 seconds. 

[SCBills]

Gotta steal that random dude Denver hired for Hackett. 

[Shaw66]

24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The rule is still move common to the game (which can include the tuck) or the time to make such a move. He doesn't complete the tuck. As the ball is coming in towards his body the DB punches it out. It is incomplete. 

Ah, thanks.   I haven't watched any replays, and I thought he might have completed his tuck.  Thanks for responding.

21 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

5 of the last 7 defeats the Bills offense has had the ball at the end with the chance to win the game and in 4 of those 5 there were serious OL breakdowns that killed those drives. I listed them yesterday. You are going to have some close games in the NFL. It is the nature of the beast. Watch redzone every week. Games come down to the final drive. For a team with an elite QB to have the ball with a chance to win 5 times in 7 defeats and to go 0 fer is a major, major anomoly. And go and look at the play by plays. Protection, protection, protection. 

 

It was the biggest problem last year. It cost us the 1 seed. And it remains, I fear, a major weakness.

Not to be a pain, but where's that list?  This thread, or someplace else?  Thanks.

[gomper]

His game management is horrible.  I know they hired someone last season to help, but that hasn't worked so far. They could have won this game. Hopefully it doesn't bite them like the Jacksonville loss did last. Plenty of blame to go around.  It starts at the top. Come January, he has to be better.  Unacceptable for a team this talented. 

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Ah, thanks.   I haven't watched any replays, and I thought he might have completed his tuck.  Thanks for responding.

Not to be a pain, but where's that list?  This thread, or someplace else?  Thanks.

 

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/242299-poor-coaching-by-mcdermott-is-becoming-a-theme/page/12/#comment-7911433

[Einstein]

57 minutes ago, blacklabel said:

Poor posting by "Einstein" has become a trend....as if it was ever anything different. 

 

Your username should be revoked. A man as intelligent as Einstein would never be associated with such dumper takes. 

 

Albert Einstein was called a lunatic among other things well before he was called a genius. 

[blacklabel]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Albert Einstein was called a lunatic among other things well before he was called a genius. 

 

Yeah, well I'm gonna call you King Pooptake. 

[LeGOATski]

44 minutes ago, gomper said:

His game management is horrible.  I know they hired someone last season to help, but that hasn't worked so far. They could have won this game. Hopefully it doesn't bite them like the Jacksonville loss did last. Plenty of blame to go around.  It starts at the top. Come January, he has to be better.  Unacceptable for a team this talented. 

With the amount of points left on the board "they could have won this game" alludes completely to the players.

 

So many points were left on the board by the players failing to execute. That's the main story of this game.

[appoo]

2 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

At the risk of being trashed, no I wouldn't trade for another coach.  BB is 70, Reid is one cheeseburger away from the big one, Harbaugh isn't leaving, and neither is McVay.  McD is a good coach and a good guy.  I wish he had Shakir active yesterday because they definitely could have used him.  Other than that, they were a lot of player mistakes yesterday.

IMO Kyle Shannahan is the best coach in the league, but has a very average GM in Lynch. I'd take him

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

5 of the last 7 defeats the Bills offense has had the ball at the end with the chance to win the game and in 4 of those 5 there were serious OL breakdowns that killed those drives. I listed them yesterday. You are going to have some close games in the NFL. It is the nature of the beast. Watch redzone every week. Games come down to the final drive. For a team with an elite QB to have the ball with a chance to win 5 times in 7 defeats and to go 0 fer is a major, major anomoly. And go and look at the play by plays. Protection, protection, protection. 

 

It was the biggest problem last year. It cost us the 1 seed. And it remains, I fear, a major weakness.

Then we better start drafting OL in the first 3 rounds rather than incessantly draft defensive players over olineman. We still struggle to run block and Josh was running for his life yesterday. 

[appoo]

3 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Then we better start drafting OL in the first 3 rounds rather than incessantly draft defensive players over olineman. We still struggle to run block and Josh was running for his life yesterday. 

how is this McDermott's fault

[DCbillsfan]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

But this ignores the point that poor coaching decisions put us in the position to need a last minute score.

 

- QB sneak at the goal line and we likely don’t need a last minute score

- Don’t waste a timeout on a PUNT and we likely have another 3 points (field goal before half time)

etc

 

I also have a hard time blaming the linemen at that point of the game. They were exhausted.

Watch the game again.  Oline was getting beat bad.  Early and often.  Spencer Brown was a turnstile.  It affected Allen's mental clock I.e. lack of time to go through his progressions.

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

https://www.twobillsdrive.com/community/topic/242299-poor-coaching-by-mcdermott-is-becoming-a-theme/page/12/#comment-7911433

Thanks.  As I said, I hadn't read the thread when I jumped in.

 

That's good and helpful analysis.  I'm not sure yesterday quite counts, under the circumstances, but certainly a better oline performance would have won the game.  

 

I'll add, without knowing, that someone posted saying, well, there were three close games last year that the Bills took over late and won by enough that the final wasn't close.   Those were close games into the fourth quarter and the team DID respond well.  Which is not to say that isn't a problem that they aren't protecting josh or powering a running game consistently late in games.    But it may not be a huge problem.   Half of the players on the field on offense are linemen, so it shouldn't be exactly surprising that half of the losses may be attributable to the line.  I know that's a naively simplistic statistical tool, but it makes some sense.  

 

I still come back to the coaching.  In the fourth quarter the Dolphins had the plays they needed, play after play, on an six-play, four-minute drive to win the game.  The Bills had two drives after that and couldn't deliver.   They were first and goal at the two.   I don't care who you have up front.   These are professional football linemen, and in the right plays a good team will score from two yards out.  There are blocks that they can make, so those are the plays you call.   All kinds of players in that game missed plays that would have won the game, but on first and goal from the two, it's on the coaches.   

[Rochesterfan]

On 9/25/2022 at 6:49 PM, Einstein said:

 

What a time to be alive. Anyone who has an opinion different than your own is a “troll”.

 

Nope - stupid Trolls are trolls as was stated before.

 

Real Einstein this one.

 

🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️