Ravens and Lamar do not reach contract agreement

[TheFunPolice]

This could be the perfect time for both parties to maximize their situations.

 

Lamar wants lots of $$ and there are rumors he wants out.

Ravens have a guy who is a huge name in the league who wants a huge, fully guaranteed contract they don't want to give.

 

IMO, Jackson has reached his ceiling, and his style of play has started to result in injuries later in the season. September and October Lamar are amazing, but then it gets to December and he's banged up and much less effective due to all the punishment. 

 

Ravens should look to trade him for another QB who can win with that team.

 

Lamar for Tua, a 1st, and a 2nd?

 

Tue is extremely accurate, is used to the cold (it snows in Alabama), and can hand off to the Ravens RBs and make occasional throws to guys who are schemed open. 

[Livinginthepast]

Would Lamar be playing on Sunday had this contract been worked out? and now he is not, is he out the door? 

[Scott7975]

11 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

This could be the perfect time for both parties to maximize their situations.

 

Lamar wants lots of $$ and there are rumors he wants out.

Ravens have a guy who is a huge name in the league who wants a huge, fully guaranteed contract they don't want to give.

 

IMO, Jackson has reached his ceiling, and his style of play has started to result in injuries later in the season. September and October Lamar are amazing, but then it gets to December and he's banged up and much less effective due to all the punishment. 

 

Ravens should look to trade him for another QB who can win with that team.

 

Lamar for Tua, a 1st, and a 2nd?

 

Tue is extremely accurate, is used to the cold (it snows in Alabama), and can hand off to the Ravens RBs and make occasional throws to guys who are schemed open. 

 

Miami doesnt have a 1st nor the cap space that Lamar wants to have.

[Albany,n.y.]

49 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

i don't think anyone would argue that an elite QB can make any WR look better than an average QB can.  

 

As for Brown, with a rookie Jackson, he was the team leader in yards, YPC, YPG and TDs---mainly because he was about the only option other than Crabtree.  In Buffalo, it was either Brown of Beasley.  When that's all you got, guys like Brown by default will put up numbers. When  teamed with better receivers, Brown goes back to where he is. 

 

Take away Diggs and replace him with Demarcus Robinson....see what ensues.

A good example of putting numbers up by default is when we had Robert Foster in Josh's rookie year putting up decent numbers.  Whenever I see someone who says that Josh sucked as a rookie, I point out how even as a rookie Josh was making his WRs look better.  That's one of the reasons I was sold on Josh long before the people wedded to stats were.  Even when he was completing passes in the 50% range (with bad WRs & bad O-Line), the talent was visually there. 

[DasNootz]

Lamar to the Jets makes more sense.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

Question - and I honestly have no idea - when fully healthy do the Jets have a Roman-esque OL, which is basically large athletic, physical bruisers?  I had the impression they were more skill/athletic types.

 

I think the upgrade thing goes right back to the question some pundits asked when Roman was coaching the Bills offense with Tyrod Taylor: is the design of the passing game, and the coaching/execution of it good enough to win?  No one doubts Roman's abilities to craft a kick-ass freight train of a run game.  But I think there are legit questions about the design of his passing game as well as questions about the quality of the QB as a passer and the quality of the receivers.

 

On the first point the Jets oline needs upgrades still whoever the coordinator is. But if they can ever get Becton healthy (that might be forlorn hope at this point) he is exactly the type of left tackle Roman wants and AVT is just really good and versatile enough to play in any scheme. 

 

On the second, Greg Roman is never going to be the best designer of a passing game in football but he is the best run game coordinator bar none. And overall he is a top 10 OC in the league. The Jets are a team who have a very good young back, some receivers - like Garrett Wilson and Elijah Moore - who can eat in play action looks with their short area quickness to attack zones behind linebackers and who (in almost any scenario) are going to starting a QB who they don't want to put the whole game on. He would be a huge upgrade on LaFleur. I wouldn't hire Greg Roman if I had an elite passer, but if I didn't he'd be right up there as my 1st or 2nd choice OC. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

I don't have a link, but I read somewhere that Lamar said he's cool playing on the franchise tender. Non-exclusive tender should be around $34 million next year and exclusive would be around around $45 million. 

 

From CBS Sports.com:

URL: https://new.cbssports.com/nfl/news/bold-predictions-for-super-wild-card-weekend-jerry-jones-finds-new-cowboys-coach-after-losing-to-tom-brady/ 

 

Lamar Jackson, QB, Ravens

Jackson's great start to the season made him September's AFC Offensive Player of the Month. He had faded from the NFL MVP conversation before suffering a sprained PCL in his left knee during a Week 13 game against the Broncos. The injury is expected to keep Jackson out of action until Week's 16 contest versus the Falcons on Christmas Eve.

Jackson, who represents himself, reportedly turned down a five-year offer worth $250 million with $133 million fully guaranteed before cutting off negotiations shortly before the regular season started because he wants a fully guaranteed contract. The offer had the second highest average yearly salary and money fully guaranteed ever in an NFL contract. The fully guaranteed, five-year, $230 million contract the Browns gave quarterback Deshaun Watson in connection with his trade from the Browns to the Texans in March that Jackson views as a benchmark is an outlier.

 

Negotiations are expected to resume in January after the regular season ends. Jackson is destined to start playing the franchise tag game if both parties remain firmly entrenched in their positions on a fully guaranteed contract. 

The exclusive franchise designation will be most likely. Four of the last five times quarterbacks have been designated as franchise players the exclusive tag has been used. 

The 2023 exclusive quarterback franchise tag currently projects to $45.248 million. This number is subject to change depending on new quarterback deals, contract restructures, pay cuts and/or releases between now and then.

 

If that's true, then the decision is easy.  Franchise him with the non-exclusive tag and let him shop for a deal. 

[Teddy KGB]

This dude hiding from another playoff loss 

 

gross 

[starrymessenger]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

If that's true, then the decision is easy.  Franchise him with the non-exclusive tag and let him shop for a deal. 

Nobody is going to fully guarantee his 250MM. A running QB who appears to be slow to heal, has missed 30% of his teams games the last two years through injury just when the going gets tough and who has had disappointing playoff performances. Would be a real hoot to see Lamar, self styled agent, sitting by himself at the negotiating table. 

[Doc]

Just now, starrymessenger said:

Nobody is going to fully guarantee his 250MM. A running QB who appears to be slow to heal, has missed 30% of his teams games the last two years through injury just when the going gets tough and who has had disappointing playoff performances. Would be a real hoot to see Lamar, self styled agent, sitting by himself at the negotiating table. 

 

I agree,  But it makes it far easier for the Ravens now.  He'll play under the franchise tag.  He may look to shop himself and find no one willing to give him what he wants.  So he goes back, hat in hand, to the Ravens.

[Solomon Grundy]

3 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I'd franchise him and look to trade him immediately.  The demand for a guaranteed contract is real and hasn't changed.  The question is whether anyone else will trade for him and give him that contract.

The J-E-T-S

[starrymessenger]

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

I agree,  But it makes it far easier for the Ravens now.  He'll play under the franchise tag.  He may look to shop himself and find no one willing to give him what he wants.  So he goes back, hat in hand, to the Ravens.

Yeah, and maybe they cut a deal on the guaranteed part once he comes to his senses. I'm not even sure the Ravens would today agree to the 250/113 they previously offered though. 

[Solomon Grundy]

9 minutes ago, starrymessenger said:

Nobody is going to fully guarantee his 250MM. A running QB who appears to be slow to heal, has missed 30% of his teams games the last two years through injury just when the going gets tough and who has had disappointing playoff performances. Would be a real hoot to see Lamar, self styled agent, sitting by himself at the negotiating table. 

Woody Johnson said he's willing to pay "whatever" for missing piece

[Epstein's Mother]

 

 

This guy is a tough sell in my book.  He plays two-thirds of the games but wants all the money.

 

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

I didn't say anything like that.  I'm saying the bums he's got aren't helping any QB.  Better WRs elevate mediocre QBs.  I gave you two examples. Put Diggs on the Ravens and Lamar looks like a better passer again.

 

And a better offensive coordinator

[TheFunPolice]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/13/sammy-watkins-hopes-lamar-jackson-decides-to-play/

 

Sammy Watkins has weighed in

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I agree that he hasn’t had a great receiving corps. But really: Greg Roman ran the optimal offense for Lamar. Roman turned a severely limited Tyrod Taylor into a starting QB on a playoff team (barely), also with minimal receiving talent. He helped turn the much more gifted but still raw at the time Lamar into an MVP. 

Lamar has no reason to complain about his coaching (and as far as I know, he isn’t complaining about it). The question with a Roman offense featuring a very athletic QB is not whether it will succeed. It will, and it has. The question is for how long and with what ceiling. And right now, the answers seem to be “not much longer” because his system wears down those QBs, and probably “the ceiling is divisional champ, one and done in the playoffs.” 

Lamar is more than a "running" QB. He threw for 4,000 yds twice in college with receivers who couldn't make a NFL roster. Get him an OC like Hurts have in Philadelphia and a bonafide WR

Edited January 13, 2023 by Solomon Grundy

[FireChans]

5 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

oh, you mean Devin Duvernay, Andy Isabella, Demarcus Robinson, Rashod Bateman, James Proche and the carcass of DeSean Jackson?

 

Come on....

Lamar's wideouts keep demanding trades.

[The Jokeman]

3 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

@Doc, do Russell Wilson and Kyler Murray have guarantees? Are they better than Lamar? As far as I'm concerned, Lamar has earned his money already. League MVP with weapons equivalent to what Justin Fields is working with currently. Lamar has had ONE bonafide weapon since he entered the league, Mark Andrews. Greg Roman as OC. The Ravens organization has failed this guy in every way. Pay the man

I hate to say it but if Lamar was in an offense that wasn't Roman's he'd not be as successful as he's been. Time will tell as talk is Roman is not going in to be Baltimore after this season and have a suspicion that Lamar will be under a 1 year franchise type deal. Similar to what the Redskins did to Cousins. 

[Solomon Grundy]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They'd be solid gets by the Jets. Roman would be a freaking hooooooooooogggggge upgrade on the less talented LaFleur. 

With Garrett Wilson and Breece Hall.. 

[The Jokeman]

5 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Lamar is more than a "running" QB. He threw for 4,000 yds twice in college with receivers who couldn't make a NFL roster. Get him an OC like Hurts have in Philadelphia and a bonafide WR

when did Lamar pass for 4,000 yards? The most I see is 3660

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/lamar-jackson-1.html

[Solomon Grundy]

4 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

when did Lamar pass for 4,000 yards? The most I see is 3660

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/lamar-jackson-1.html

Geez... Potato, potatoe. I should've said nearly. Now reference his receivers and find one in the NFL

Edited January 13, 2023 by Solomon Grundy

[starrymessenger]

9 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Geez... Potato, potatoe. I should've said nearly. Now reference his receivers and find one in the NFL

I agree that it's reasonable to conclude that Lamar's passing stats would be better if he had better receivers. I mean Josh Allen's stats would probably be better if he had Mahomes' and Burrow's weapons. In evaluating Lamar as a passer you have to ask not only whether he would benefit from having better WRs but also whether he has the ability to make the WRs better than they would otherwise be. I don't think he does. He can't do what Josh Allen do.

[The Frankish Reich]

51 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Get him an OC like Hurts have in Philadelphia and a bonafide WR

I agree. I don’t want to box Lamar in as some kind of uber-Tyrod. My comment goes to the fact that as long as he’s under Greg Roman (a guy I really like) we’re not really sure how good he can be in a different offense, and that there’s kind of a Law of Roman Diminishing Returns. 

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/13/sammy-watkins-hopes-lamar-jackson-decides-to-play/

 

Sammy Watkins has weighed in

Wow. Strong talk!

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

Lamar's wideouts keep demanding trades.

 

who?...other than Marquise Brown---who saw his targets increase from 71 to 100 to 146 in 3 years in Baltimore.    And he gave that up to be traded to where?  Oh yeah.. the AZ Kyler Murrays!  how did that work out for him?  His targets per game went down. 1 game over 100 yards---and he only got a lot of those targets because Hopkins was out for half the season.  Once he came back, Brown was #2.  In Balt, he was far and away the #1 WR.  What a chump. 

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/13/sammy-watkins-hopes-lamar-jackson-decides-to-play/

 

Sammy Watkins has weighed in

 

Whoa, strong words from Boo-boo Foot.  Watkins needs to pipe down IMHO.   STFU and try playing your ass off to get open for Huntley.

 

Watkins had his chance at a Superbowl in 2019 and 2020 with the Chiefs. 

 

I mean, sure, the Ravens are in the Playoffs so they have a chance at a Superbowl - but what makes Jackson so effective is his mobility. 

 

Ask RGIII if he regrets going out there for Washington on one leg and ruining his career.

[Beck Water]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/12/lamar-jackson-my-knee-remains-inflamed-and-unstable/

 

Quote

Jackson has missed the last five games and head coach John Harbaugh offered no updates on his status Wednesday. He did say that he was OK with a player playing at less than 100 percent “if he’s healthy and safe and it’s not gonna do any damage to an injury.”

 

Quote

In a tweet on Thursday, Jackson said he’s not in that category as the team prepares to face the Bengals in the Wild Card round.

“Thank you everyone for your support and concerns regarding my injuries,” Jackson wrote. “I want to give you all an update as I am in the recovery process. I’ve suffered a PCL grade 2 sprain on the borderline of a strain 3. There is still inflammation surrounding my knee and my knee remains unstable. I’m still in good spirits, as I continue with treatments on the road to recovery. I wish I could be out there with my guys more than anything but I can’t give a 100% of myself to my guys and fans I’m still hopeful we still have a chance.”

 

I think it was Chris Simms (who does have some 'ins' with the players) who said earlier this week that he'd heard Jackson's knee was still swollen.

 

For anyone curious, definition of Grade 2 and Grade 3 sprain:

Quote

Grade 2 sprain

With a grade 2 sprain, your ligament is partially torn. The incomplete tear causes bruising (due to bleeding beneath the skin), swelling, and moderate pain. The joint remains fairly stable, but the affected area is tender to the touch. Joint function may be compromised slightly due to pain.

RICE is appropriate for a grade 2 sprain, too. Dr. Absi may also recommend immobilization of the injured joint with a splint or other device.

This moderate type of sprain usually takes about 4-6 weeks to heal, as long as you’re diligent in following the steps of rest and rehabilitation.

Grade 3 sprain

A grade 3 sprain is most serious. It means that the ligament is completely torn or ruptured.

You experience severe swelling and bruising. The joint probably isn’t functional because it’s too unstable, and movement creates intense pain. If you have a grade 3 sprain in the ankle, for example, walking usually isn’t possible.

Grade 3 sprains often require a brace or cast for at least a couple of weeks. Over-the-counter anti-inflammatories can help you control pain, but younger, athletic patients may benefit from surgery to restore full range of motion and function.

A grade 3 sprain can take three months (12 weeks) or longer to heal.

If you suspect you’ve suffered a sprain, get your joint checked out right away by an expert like Dr. Absi of Orthopaedics of Atlanta and Aesthetic Institute. The sooner you start proper care for your injury, the faster you recover and restore full function.

 

I defer to our resident Orthos here, but it seems to me that in a professional athlete, a Grade 3 sprain would 100% get surgery and a Grade 2 bordering on Grade 3 sprain would strongly recommend it for  optimal recovery

[FireChans]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

who?...other than Marquise Brown---who saw his targets increase from 71 to 100 to 146 in 3 years in Baltimore.    And he gave that up to be traded to where?  Oh yeah.. the AZ Kyler Murrays!  how did that work out for him?  His targets per game went down. 1 game over 100 yards---and he only got a lot of those targets because Hopkins was out for half the season.  Once he came back, Brown was #2.  In Balt, he was far and away the #1 WR.  What a chump. 

How many WR's have demanded trades from franchise QB's where they are the undisputed #1?

[Beck Water]

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

32 minutes ago, FireChans said:

How many WR's have demanded trades from franchise QB's where they are the undisputed #1?

 

well there's always the need to factor in stupid decisions on the part of NFL players.  What did he think was going to improve for him in AZ??  dumb.  

 

who else you got?

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I agree. I don’t want to box Lamar in as some kind of uber-Tyrod. My comment goes to the fact that as long as he’s under Greg Roman (a guy I really like) we’re not really sure how good he can be in a different offense, and that there’s kind of a Law of Roman Diminishing Returns. 

I think Roman has pretty much maxed out Lamar's NFL potential. Putting Lamar in any kind of predominantly passing offence strikes me as a recipe for disaster. 

[FireChans]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

 

well there's always the need to factor in stupid decisions on the part of NFL players.  What did he think was going to improve for him in AZ??  dumb.  

 

who else you got?

Let's do a playoff WR draft check.

 

Since 2019, when Lamar was the "guy," the Ravens have drafted 2 first round WR's. 

 

Let's look at the rest of the playoff teams.

 

The Bills have drafted zero.

 

The Chiefs drafted zero.

 

The Bengals drafted 1 first round WR.

 

The Vikings drafted 1 first round WR.

 

The Eagles drafted 2 first round WR's.

 

The 49ers drafted 1 first round WR.

 

The Dolphins drafted 1 first round WR.

 

How many of those dudes demanded a trade?  1.

 

Do you think it's POSSIBLE that, yes, the Ravens do not have the best WR group in the NFL and ALSO that LJ is a reason for that as well?  This isn't a Rodgers situation. 2 first rounders at WR in 4 years is a lot.  Even the Eagles got one wrong in Jalen Reagor.  '

 

They don't want to play with this dude.  WR's hit the market and they know the Ravens are where WR's go to die.

[PatsFanNH]

2 hours ago, Solomon Grundy said:

Lamar is more than a "running" QB. He threw for 4,000 yds twice in college with receivers who couldn't make a NFL roster. Get him an OC like Hurts have in Philadelphia and a bonafide WR

How about he is actually healthy for an entire year! The last 2 years he been hurt and it’s been his knees so I’d be scared give him a long term deal.

[starrymessenger]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Let's do a playoff WR draft check.

 

Since 2019, when Lamar was the "guy," the Ravens have drafted 2 first round WR's. 

 

Let's look at the rest of the playoff teams.

 

The Bills have drafted zero.

 

The Chiefs drafted zero.

 

The Bengals drafted 1 first round WR.

 

The Vikings drafted 1 first round WR.

 

The Eagles drafted 2 first round WR's.

 

The 49ers drafted 1 first round WR.

 

The Dolphins drafted 1 first round WR.

 

How many of those dudes demanded a trade?  1.

 

Do you think it's POSSIBLE that, yes, the Ravens do not have the best WR group in the NFL and ALSO that LJ is a reason for that as well?  This isn't a Rodgers situation. 2 first rounders at WR in 4 years is a lot.  Even the Eagles got one wrong in Jalen Reagor.  '

 

They don't want to play with this dude.  WR's hit the market and they know the Ravens are where WR's go to die.

And they drafted that Duvernay kid in the 3rd. I think he's pretty good.

[Mr. WEO]

57 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Let's do a playoff WR draft check.

 

Since 2019, when Lamar was the "guy," the Ravens have drafted 2 first round WR's. 

 

Let's look at the rest of the playoff teams.

 

The Bills have drafted zero.

 

The Chiefs drafted zero.

 

The Bengals drafted 1 first round WR.

 

The Vikings drafted 1 first round WR.

 

The Eagles drafted 2 first round WR's.

 

The 49ers drafted 1 first round WR.

 

The Dolphins drafted 1 first round WR.

 

How many of those dudes demanded a trade?  1.

 

Do you think it's POSSIBLE that, yes, the Ravens do not have the best WR group in the NFL and ALSO that LJ is a reason for that as well?  This isn't a Rodgers situation. 2 first rounders at WR in 4 years is a lot.  Even the Eagles got one wrong in Jalen Reagor.  '

 

They don't want to play with this dude.  WR's hit the market and they know the Ravens are where WR's go to die.

Well Brown made it clear why asked for a trade.  Then he went straight to a predictably worse situation.  That’s the choice of a moron—so his life decision in this matter can be completely discounted.  
 

No one is saying Jackson is a great passing QB.  Im saying his WRs stink.  The one who demanded to be traded is a #2 WR all day anywhere else—and now he is…on a crappy team with a worse QB.  
 

That’s not a very persuasive argument you are attempting to make. 

[dave mcbride]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/01/12/lamar-jackson-my-knee-remains-inflamed-and-unstable/

 

 

 

I think it was Chris Simms (who does have some 'ins' with the players) who said earlier this week that he'd heard Jackson's knee was still swollen.

 

For anyone curious, definition of Grade 2 and Grade 3 sprain:

 

I defer to our resident Orthos here, but it seems to me that in a professional athlete, a Grade 3 sprain would 100% get surgery and a Grade 2 bordering on Grade 3 sprain would strongly recommend it for  optimal recovery

For a PCL? I thought those could heal on their own (unlike ACLs).

[FireChans]

35 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Well Brown made it clear why asked for a trade.  Then he went straight to a predictably worse situation.  That’s the choice of a moron—so his life decision in this matter can be completely discounted.  
 

No one is saying Jackson is a great passing QB.  Im saying his WRs stink.  The one who demanded to be traded is a #2 WR all day anywhere else—and now he is…on a crappy team with a worse QB.  
 

That’s not a very persuasive argument you are attempting to make. 

That's one way to look at it.  The other way to look at it is that some dude who isn't even that good of a WR wanted to be anywhere but Baltimore as the #1 WR in a contract year.

 

If you were Gabe Davis, the Ravens would be slightly more appealing than maybe Carolina and Atlanta as an FA.  That's a huge deal.

 

Even Diggs didn't want to come to Buffalo until AFTER 2019.  AB straight up said I'd retire rather than go there.

Edited January 13, 2023 by FireChans

[BuffaloBills1998]

3 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

I hate to say it but if Lamar was in an offense that wasn't Roman's he'd not be as successful as he's been. Time will tell as talk is Roman is not going in to be Baltimore after this season and have a suspicion that Lamar will be under a 1 year franchise type deal. Similar to what the Redskins did to Cousins. 

I agree with this. Roman has been able to put a band aid on Jackson’s flaws but eventually the band aid will fall off. I think if the Ravens fire Roman we will see how flawed of a QB Jackson really is. 

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

That's one way to look at it.  The other way to look at it is that some dude who isn't even that good of a WR wanted to be anywhere but Baltimore as the #1 WR in a contract year.

 

If you were Gabe Davis, the Ravens would be slightly more appealing than maybe Carolina and Atlanta as an FA.  That's a huge deal.

 

Even Diggs didn't want to come to Buffalo until AFTER 2019.  AB straight up said I'd retire rather than go there.

Where did Diggs say that he didn’t want to come to Buffalo?

[FireChans]

6 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I agree with this. Roman has been able to put a band aid on Jackson’s flaws but eventually the band aid will fall off. I think if the Ravens fire Roman we will see how flawed of a QB Jackson really is. 

Where did Diggs say that he didn’t want to come to Buffalo?

DIGGS DIDN'T ALWAYS want to come to Buffalo.

The Bills first contacted the Vikings about the wide receiver's availability prior to the trade deadline in 2019. Appearing on linebacker Von Miller's podcast last month, Diggs said he told his agent he did not want to be traded to Buffalo at the time.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/34986962/how-trading-stefon-diggs-became-massive-win-win-bills-vikings