Dopey Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 24 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said: Not at all. That just shows it was a poorly thought-out question. Maybe we want to ask, "The most talented skill set FOR HIS POSITION in Bills history." Otherwise I'm going with the Punt God. He is talented, I give you that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 8 hours ago, Locomark said: I watched OJ as a kid. He was a great athlete and dominated for 2-3 years. He rarely caught the ball, never blocked like Thurman and had a much superior line and FB. He also played in an era where LBs,DEs, and Safetys were more bulky than fast. He rarely ran anyone over. In a later era I don’t know how he would have fared. Unlike Bruce he was not in the best 5 at his position all-time. So that is why he isn’t in the conversation with Bruce. He may not be top 7/8 even though he was given the ball on every play, something most athletes dream of. He doesn’t come close to guys like Sanders or Smith. I listed the other random just showing guys that are natural superior athletes since that was the question. Sorry to pile on... you need to watch this highlight package and listen to the narration. It's a myth and misunderstanding that OJ didn't have a power component to his game... these highlights are well worth the time spent watching and absolutely awe-inspiring (click on "Watch on YouTube"): 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Canadian Bills Fan said: Not saying he is even in the top 10, but I always thought Brian Moorman was extremely athletic you can keep your day job. 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 4 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Kelly was incredibly tough. Is he tougher than Allen? Kelly had a big arm. Allen might have the biggest arm ever. There is literally nothing that Kelly could do that Allen can’t. There are lots of things that Allen can do that Kelly couldn’t. Talent-wise it isn’t a conversation. I wouldn’t have Kelly in the top 10 most talented Bills ever. He might not be in the top 20. Again, talent and accomplishment aren’t interchangeable. Physically and talent wise I agree Allen is better than Kelly in all aspects of the game save one. Deep ball touch and accuracy. Allen still struggles with his deep ball. Allen and Rodgers are probably the greatest deep out or curl patterns QBs of all time. No one has thrown those passes better. But on deep seam, post, or fly patterns Allen still struggles. Kelly dropped those passes in the WR hands on a regular basis. He could hit Lofton on a high arching pass or Reed on a deep cross in perfect stride. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Canadian Bills Fan said: Not saying he is even in the top 10, but I always thought Brian Moorman was extremely athletic Especially when punting from his own end zone... maybe the best in league history in that situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 10 hours ago, Locomark said: I watched OJ as a kid. He was a great athlete and dominated for 2-3 years. He rarely caught the ball, never blocked like Thurman and had a much superior line and FB. He also played in an era where LBs,DEs, and Safetys were more bulky than fast. He rarely ran anyone over. In a later era I don’t know how he would have fared. Unlike Bruce he was not in the best 5 at his position all-time. So that is why he isn’t in the conversation with Bruce. He may not be top 7/8 even though he was given the ball on every play, something most athletes dream of. He doesn’t come close to guys like Sanders or Smith. I listed the other random just showing guys that are natural superior athletes since that was the question. Probably one of the worst takes in the history of TSW…I don’t even know where to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Those who denigrate OJ's running are incorrect. He ran with power and he ran with speed. And the hits he took would eventually end his career. I can't recall him blocking -- then again, very few teams passed the ball even close to half the time. I get that people want to minimise his contributions to the team in a very mediocre era in Bills history because of his alleged crimes. But he was one of the best football athletes I have ever seen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Ethan in Portland said: Physically and talent wise I agree Allen is better than Kelly in all aspects of the game save one. Deep ball touch and accuracy. Allen still struggles with his deep ball. Allen and Rodgers are probably the greatest deep out or curl patterns QBs of all time. No one has thrown those passes better. But on deep seam, post, or fly patterns Allen still struggles. Kelly dropped those passes in the WR hands on a regular basis. He could hit Lofton on a high arching pass or Reed on a deep cross in perfect stride. That’s totally fair. Appreciate the thoughtful response!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhgold Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 I'm glad to see so many people sticking up for OJ (the football player). Eleven years after he retired, OJ was still the standard of running back excellence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billykay Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 47 minutes ago, Marvin said: Those who denigrate OJ's running are incorrect. He ran with power and he ran with speed. And the hits he took would eventually end his career. I can't recall him blocking -- then again, very few teams passed the ball even close to half the time. I get that people want to minimise his contributions to the team in a very mediocre era in Bills history because of his alleged crimes. But he was one of the best football athletes I have ever seen. hits ? What hits ? His vision was so good that I never saw him take a big hit. I rate him right up there with Barry & Jim Brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 On 9/3/2022 at 1:21 AM, Special K said: IMO, the top 3 has to be OJ Simpson, Bruce Smith, and Josh Allen, in whatever order you choose. Although he hasn’t officially played a game with the Bills yet, Von Miller has to be pretty high on that list as well. Pretty cool to think that the Bills might have two of the most talented players in franchise history playing at the same time!! What at are your thoughts? How would you rank them, and who else would you put in your Top 5?? Allen is the best player ever. I've been a fan of the Bills since '66. No one has ever willed the Bills to more wins than him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 4 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said: Yeah, Barry Sanders was definitely gifted in a small, sports car sort of way. Like you said, OJ had the turbo boost, like the Millenium Falcon going into hyperspace. Great way of putting it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicagobills Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Vontae Davis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 56 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: Allen is the best player ever. I've been a fan of the Bills since '66. No one has ever willed the Bills to more wins than him. Even after only four seasons, it's hard to argue with that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills2022 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, dhgold said: I'm glad to see so many people sticking up for OJ (the football player). Eleven years after he retired, OJ was still the standard of running back excellence. Thurman Thomas > OJ. Thurman had 2000+ yards from scrimmage in two seasons, just like OJ. but he also had 9 straight seasons of 1000+ yards from scrimmage. OJ only had 6 and they were not consecutive. Give me Thurman. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Just now, Bills2022 said: Thurman Thomas > OJ. Thurman had 2000+ yards from scrimmage in two seasons, just like OJ. but he also had 9 straight seasons of 1000+ yards from scrimmage. OJ only had 6 and they were not consecutive. Give me Thurman. SMH. 🤔 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 minute ago, Bills2022 said: Thurman Thomas > OJ. Thurman had 2000+ yards from scrimmage in two seasons, just like OJ. but he also had 9 straight seasons of 1000+ yards from scrimmage. OJ only had 6 and they were not consecutive. Give me Thurman. You can have him. If OJ was on the Levy Bills, the team wouldn't have gone 0-4 in Super Bowls. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills2022 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Just now, Sierra Foothills said: You can have him. If OJ was on the Levy Bills, the team wouldn't have gone 0-4 in Super Bowls. No, the Bills would never have made the Super Bowl. OJ never even made it to the Super Bowl because he wasn't talented enough to bring them there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LabattBlue Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 2 minutes ago, Bills2022 said: No, the Bills would never have made the Super Bowl. OJ never even made it to the Super Bowl because he wasn't talented enough to bring them there. Doubling down on bad takes is not a good idea. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thenorthremembers Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Probably not a popular opinion but Jason Peters should be in consideration. Not the top guy but he has had a great career and was an incredible athlete. Its going to be Josh by the end of his career but currently its Bruce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills2022 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, LabattBlue said: Doubling down on bad takes is not a good idea. OJ is no Thurman. Thurman showed up in the playoffs. OJ only played in 1 playoff game in his entire 11 year career. His performance in that game was nothing to get excited about. 49 yards on 15 carries. 3 receptions for 37 yards and a TD. Very blah. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Consider this. In that early-mid 70's period, OJ was the most exciting player in the NFL. Buffalo also had the most exciting in the NHL in Gilbert Perreault, and in the NBA in Bob MacAdoo. All 3 immense talents 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhgold Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Bills2022 said: OJ is no Thurman. Thurman showed up in the playoffs. OJ only played in 1 playoff game in his entire 11 year career. His performance in that game was nothing to get excited about. 49 yards on 15 carries. 3 receptions for 37 yards and a TD. Very blah. Tripling down is a worse idea. OJ's playoff game was against the Pittsburgh's ferocious Steel Curtain defense which contained around 8 Pro Bowlers and at least 4 future Hall of Famers. Considering that OJ was the know-to-everyone focus of the offense, I'd say he didn't do too badly. I can't believe your egregious take is making me bash Thurman Thomas, my all-time favorite Bill, but OJ's stats in his playoff game compare favorably to Thurman's against the Redskins in Super Bowl XXVI. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewaycynic2013 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 I think this guy was a Bill from the strike year. Pretty talented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sierra Foothills Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Bills2022 said: OJ is no Thurman. Thurman showed up in the playoffs. OJ only played in 1 playoff game in his entire 11 year career. His performance in that game was nothing to get excited about. 49 yards on 15 carries. 3 receptions for 37 yards and a TD. Very blah. What you have no idea of is that in the game following the Bills loss to the Steelers, Pittsburgh proceeded to dominate the Oakland Raiders in the AFC Championship Game 24-13 and allowed Oakland (led by 3 time Pro Bowler Marv Hubbard) only 29 yards on 21 carries with no rushing TDs. In the Super Bowl Pittsburgh dominated Minnesota 16-6 and allowed Minnesota (led by 5 time Pro Bowler Chuck Foreman) only 17 yards on 21 carries with no rushing TDs. In other words OJ's 14 rushes for 49 yards (3.5 yards per carry) was more than Oakland and Minnesota's combined 46 yards on 42 carries (1.09 yards per carry) in the next two games combined. In addition OJ caught 3 passes for 37 yards and a TD in that playoff game. The reason OJ played in only one playoff game was because the team around him was always mediocre. You really have zero clue about OJ Simpson. Edited September 5, 2022 by Sierra Foothills 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) Even if OJ had TERRIBLE production, he would still be a viable answer to the question. The question isn’t about resumè it is about talent. I half-jokingly put a picture of Reggie Bush up there earlier. I have more rushing yards in a Bills uniform than Reggie Bush. He is one of the most physically gifted players to ever play for this, or any, franchise. He never lived up to his ceiling but the talent was always there. Edited September 5, 2022 by Kirby Jackson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Bills2022 said: OJ is no Thurman. Thurman showed up in the playoffs. OJ only played in 1 playoff game in his entire 11 year career. His performance in that game was nothing to get excited about. 49 yards on 15 carries. 3 receptions for 37 yards and a TD. Very blah. I love Thurman, but he couldn't carry OJ Simpson's jock strap. Not even in the same universe, athletically. I have to assume you're just trolling... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 2 hours ago, Sierra Foothills said: You can have him. If OJ was on the Levy Bills, the team wouldn't have gone 0-4 in Super Bowls. I can't even imagine OJ in today's NFL; he had excellent hands and would have been devastating in the passing game...there just are no RBs remotely like him in the NFL these days...the superior athletes are playing WR now instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldmanfan Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 One of the problems with a best in franchise history question is that there are so many who did not get to see guys live from the earlier years. For those saying OJ was not as good as Thurman, I just wish you could have seen him play. Yes, he’s now a degenerate murderer but in his day he was simply unbelievable. His combo of speed and power were unmatched, would make cuts that defied the laws of physics. Some criticize him for not catching more passes but we simply did not throw the ball much, precisely because of how great OJ was running the ball. And that is not to denigrate Thurman, who is in my top 5. There were so many guys in the earlier days that were just great. Cookie might be the best overall athlete the Bills ever had. He was a freight train running the ball - Jim Brown is the only guy in history that matched his size and speed and power. Tom Sestak us what folks call country strong; he’d have been a lock for the HOF if it weren’t for injuries. Same with Jerry Butler - he might be the most talented WR the Bills ever had, whose career was cut short by injury. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills2022 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, mannc said: I can't even imagine OJ in today's NFL; he had excellent hands and would have been devastating in the passing game...there just are no RBs remotely like him in the NFL these days...the superior athletes are playing WR now instead. OJ was overrated. Never won ANYTHING. Not even a playoff game. Wasn't good enough to carry a team. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlCowlingsTaxiService Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Gabe Northern for the win 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills2022 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 14 minutes ago, mannc said: I love Thurman, but he couldn't carry OJ Simpson's jock strap. Not even in the same universe, athletically. I have to assume you're just trolling... 🤣 OJ was garbage compared to Thurman. Thurman gave his team a Super Bowl. 15 carries for 135 yards and a TD. 5 catches for 55 yards. Unreal clutch performance. OJ never did anything close to that in a big game because he couldn't get to one. If Levy wasn't such a conservative clown and if he knew how to manage a clock, the Bills would have won the Super Bowl on a 25 yard field goal, instead of having to kick a 47 yard field goal. Thurman delivered the Bills a Super Bowl. Not his fault Levy blew it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsPride12 Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said: Probably not a popular opinion but Jason Peters should be in consideration. Not the top guy but he has had a great career and was an incredible athlete. Its going to be Josh by the end of his career but currently its Bruce. That's a good sleeper pick. That dude was a freak! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shake_My_Head Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 OJ Bruce Thurman 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 4 hours ago, billykay said: hits ? What hits ? His vision was so good that I never saw him take a big hit. I rate him right up there with Barry & Jim Brown. Let me quote OJ from the 35th Anniversary video: "Early in the game, you would bowl him...that would make it easier to juke him later on..." He ran inside a lot more than we remember. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Frankish Reich Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 3 hours ago, Bills2022 said: No, the Bills would never have made the Super Bowl. OJ never even made it to the Super Bowl because he wasn't talented enough to bring them there. As I pointed out earlier: Joe Ferguson started all 14 games in OJ's record breaking 2,000 yard season. He threw for 939 yards. 67 yards per game. Really. 67 passing yards per game. Sorry, but the young uns have no idea how different the NFL was back then. The Bills' offense was like the Broncos Tebow 2011 offense. The passing game was barely existent. Everyone knew OJ was getting the ball (and when he wasn't, the fullbacks - Braxton and Larry Watkins - were) and they still couldn't stop him. Compare Thurman's best year: 2113 yards combined, rushing and receiving. That's awesome. But Kelly threw for 3457 yards. Taking out Thurman's receiving yards, that's still about 2800 yards gained not involving Thurman. OJ was the offense in those peak years. Put him on a team that actually had some other talent (beyond offensive line and a few guys on the defensive side) like the early 90s Bills and that's a Super Bowl team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 Love Thurman, but he is far below, looking way up at OJ when it comes to talent and greatness. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Rico said: Love Thurman, but he is far below, looking way up at OJ when it comes to talent and greatness. Thurman is one of my favorite Bills ever; he was great. I’m shocked to see so many people listing him among “the most talented players in franchise history.” He was a 2nd round pick for a reason. He wasn’t fast. He wasn’t big. He was really smart and versatile. He would be on the short list of people that “did more with less” than anyone else. I don’t know how accurate this is but he was a “meh” athlete. His 40 time is faster than I would have thought but he didn’t play at that speed. https://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=26190 Edited September 6, 2022 by Kirby Jackson 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy1 Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 I think it’s Bruce and no one else is close to him. Josh might be working his way into the discussion. Hopefully by the end of his career, we can say the answer is Josh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Noggin Posted September 6, 2022 Share Posted September 6, 2022 "Talent" doesn't need extra time to be assessed. "Talent" is innate. Skills and traits, and therefore efficacy/success can be improved, but that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with talent. On one hand, we can see talent defined narrowly and assessed quickly. Thus, we'd already know how Josh Allen rates against Bruce Smith, strictly with respect to "talent." Except that...more talented people have more potential for improvement (the whole "high ceiling" thing). So asking for more time to see if Allen surpasses Bruce isn't really wrong at all. And also, wtf do we mean by "talent" anyway? Obviously RAS is a big part of it, but there are many other traits and gifts and abilities that are more complicated to quantify. And the whole notion of a player's potential, or ceiling, versus floor, or bust-ability, adds layers of subjectivity and projection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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