Mass shooting in Buffalo (Those wishing to exchange on the political aspects of this situation should do so in the thread located in PPP) - edit by moderator

[NoSaint]

On 5/17/2022 at 4:51 PM, Warcodered said:

I think it's a situation where there are multiple factors that contribute to all these events that occur so often in the U.S., and no event requires all the factors.

from the post you quoted- 

I think a statement like “the shooters family said he was a normal kid” need to be taken with a bit of a grain of salt too. 
 

you just rarely see someone say “in hindsight we messed up not taking it more seriously when the red flags got so extreme that he was taken in for a psych evaluation and we still acted like nothing was amiss”

 

Additionally, being released from being held against his will doesn’t mean nothing was wrong. 
 

“mentally ill” is such a big umbrella that it’s not a productive label, but people that are well don’t do this. I don’t know his challenges but he certainly was unwell and that doesn’t take away from his responsibility or label others. 

[Mr. WEO]

here's an article that points out why the very fact that this guy had to travel 200 miles to find his targets disproves his manifesto theory.

 

It also reiterates why that   Buffalo zip code had no major grocery store for decades.....

 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/21/buffalo-massacre-great-replacement-segregation-00034177

[Nextmanup]

44 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

here's an article that points out why the very fact that this guy had to travel 200 miles to find his targets disproves his manifesto theory.

 

It also reiterates why that   Buffalo zip code had no major grocery store for decades.....

 

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/21/buffalo-massacre-great-replacement-segregation-00034177

But he didn't have to travel 200 miles to find his targets.  When I heard what he was doing and where he came from, that was the first thing I wondered about.  Why go all the way over to Buffalo to do this?

 

He's from the  Binghamton area as I understand it.  Go to Syracuse, to name one of many possible destinations.

or Scranton, PA, or....

 

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Nextmanup said:

But he didn't have to travel 200 miles to find his targets.  When I heard what he was doing and where he came from, that was the first thing I wondered about.  Why go all the way over to Buffalo to do this?

 

He's from the  Binghamton area as I understand it.  Go to Syracuse, to name one of many possible destinations.

or Scranton, PA, or....

 

 

 

 

or the Bronx…

 

He gave his reasons—he thought it was the nearest zip code with the highest concentration of black residents..  He’s just a low IQ human—all of the people who believe what he does are the dumbest people in the country.  Unfortunately it’s 10s of millions, at least.  

[Just Jack]

21 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

But he didn't have to travel 200 miles to find his targets.  When I heard what he was doing and where he came from, that was the first thing I wondered about.  Why go all the way over to Buffalo to do this?

 

He's from the  Binghamton area as I understand it.  Go to Syracuse, to name one of many possible destinations.

or Scranton, PA, or....

 

I heard Syracuse was on his hit list, specifically Carousel (it's not the Destiny we were promised) Mall.  He probably decided against it since there have been some shootings there recently.  

[Bob in STL]

20 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

or the Bronx…

 

He gave his reasons—he thought it was the nearest zip code with the highest concentration of black residents..  He’s just a low IQ human—all of the people who believe what he does are the dumbest people in the country.  Unfortunately it’s 10s of millions, at least.  

He is a lot of things, but he is not low IQ.  I will not be happy if he gets any leniency in court for being mentally ill or falling under some kind of learning disability umbrella.   He actions were well researched, carefully planned, coldly calculated and even documented.   Not the work of a low IQ learning disabled person.  He should be tried as a fully functional adult.  

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

He is a lot of things, but he is not low IQ.  I will not be happy if he gets any leniency in court for being mentally ill or falling under some kind of learning disability umbrella.   He actions were well researched, carefully planned, coldly calculated and even documented.   Not the work of a low IQ learning disabled person.  He should be tried as a fully functional adult.  

 

 

I was certainly not suggesting he's handicapped, or that he should not be tried as a competent defendant--he's just a sub-average IQ citizen of this county as a 100 million others.

 

To believe what he believes, one has to have no ability for critical thinking--he has to have an empty mind that he can fill with the garbage he reads on line and watches on TV, stuff that far more intelligent people are feeding him and his kind.   

 

As for his "well researched, carefully planned" massacre-----it was the dumbest plan imaginable.  First, he hardly had to drive 200 miles to "find" his targets.  Second, he put it all on the internet ("the prosecution, your honor, rests with no witnesses").  Third, he figured he would walk into the Tops, kill scores of people, walk back to his car, drive to a nearby neighborhood and continue his rampage, and take off.

 

He never figured the cops would respond to an "active shooter" strolling through the supermarket?  They were there within 60 seconds of the call.  This obviously surprised this kid, this master of plans.  He's a moron.

[billsfan1959]

58 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

He is a lot of things, but he is not low IQ.  I will not be happy if he gets any leniency in court for being mentally ill or falling under some kind of learning disability umbrella.   He actions were well researched, carefully planned, coldly calculated and even documented.   Not the work of a low IQ learning disabled person.  He should be tried as a fully functional adult.  

 

His actions were absolutely planned and calculated and my educated guess is that he will not be successful with any kind of insanity / diminished capacity / mental health defense. With the limited knowledge I have of the evidence in this case, I believe he fully understood what he was doing and the consequences of his actions - and should be held fully responsible for his actions. However, don't think for a minute his cognitive functioning isn't severely impaired. It is. He's just not insane.

[Nextmanup]

On 5/22/2022 at 10:46 AM, Bob in STL said:

He is a lot of things, but he is not low IQ.  I will not be happy if he gets any leniency in court for being mentally ill or falling under some kind of learning disability umbrella.   He actions were well researched, carefully planned, coldly calculated and even documented.   Not the work of a low IQ learning disabled person.  He should be tried as a fully functional adult.  

He's most definitely low IQ.  

 

Is he so low IQ that he qualifies as "learning disabled" or mentally handicapped or mildly ######ed?  No.

 

Those are more like "extremely low IQ".  

 

 

[Brand J]

5 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

He's most definitely low IQ.  

 

Is he so low IQ that he qualifies as "learning disabled" or mentally handicapped or mildly ######ed?  No.

 

Those are more like "extremely low IQ".  

 

 

Are you saying Payton is low IQ? Both parents are engineers, everyone surrounding him stated how intelligent he was, he wanted to be an engineer himself. I don’t think he’s low IQ, he’s just evil. Evil people can be highly intelligent.

[Warcodered]

 

[Bad Things]

3 hours ago, Warcodered said:

 

You can include New Zealand on that list too.  Kia Kaha.  (Stay Strong.)

[Bob in STL]

21 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

He's most definitely low IQ.  

 

Is he so low IQ that he qualifies as "learning disabled" or mentally handicapped or mildly ######ed?  No.

 

Those are more like "extremely low IQ".  

 

 

No.  

[Just Jack]

22 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

He's most definitely low IQ.  

 

Is he so low IQ that he qualifies as "learning disabled" or mentally handicapped or mildly ######ed?  No.

 

Those are more like "extremely low IQ".  

 

 

 

IQ doesn't matter.  I know several high IQ people, and even among them there are some really ***** up people.  

[WhoTom]

Regarding the IQ debate, IQ is supposed to be a measure of one's ability to reason logically or think rationally. By that definition, I would argue that a racist would have a low IQ, because racism is clearly illogical and irrational. However, the tests that supposedly measure IQ tend to be more about problem-solving (in the mathematical/scientific/puzzle-solving sense), so in that respect, it's possible to be a card-carrying member of the KKK and still have a high IQ according to the tests. Racism is rooted in emotion, not logic, and emotion is the gatekeeper of the intellect.

 

 

[K-9]

Who the F cares whether a murdering maniac is another Einstein or Lenny? Has no bearing on anything. If we need to question IQs, we should be questioning the IQs of those that refuse to address the issue. 
 

Heard from a relative of one of the first cops to reach the scene at Tops and what he described is beyond horrific. Said he will need lots of time and therapy as a result of what he came upon when entering the store. Perhaps some of these hand sitters that insist on doing nothing should be made to see what brain matter oozing from blown out eye sockets actually looks like. 

[Jauronimo]

22 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Are you saying Payton is low IQ? Both parents are engineers, everyone surrounding him stated how intelligent he was, he wanted to be an engineer himself. I don’t think he’s low IQ, he’s just evil. Evil people can be highly intelligent.

If your politics are mostly informed from 4Chan memeboards and rare Pepes then you're probably a f@#$ing idiot.

[Brand J]

3 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

If your politics are mostly informed from 4Chan memeboards and rare Pepes then you're probably a f@#$ing idiot.

I have no idea what any of that means.

[ExiledInIllinois]

What's a rare Pepe?  Is it safe to Google it?

[Nextmanup]

10 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

IQ doesn't matter.  I know several high IQ people, and even among them there are some really ***** up people.  

You're changing the topic; it's not about IQ necessarily, I agree. I'm just correcting the other guy who said he's not low IQ...because he is.

 

 

[NoSaint]

10 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

IQ doesn't matter.  I know several high IQ people, and even among them there are some really ***** up people.  

 

sure it matters. It’s not a bright line that can’t be crossed and no other factor matters but IQ sure does correlate to being susceptible to this kind of stuff, and it also correlated to having a rather poor plan.

42 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

What's a rare Pepe?  Is it safe to Google it?

Don’t worry, I’m sure you are already on all kinds of strange watchlists for the government. What’s one more?

[ExiledInIllinois]

13 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

sure it matters. It’s not a bright line that can’t be crossed and no other factor matters but IQ sure does correlate to being susceptible to this kind of stuff, and it also correlated to having a rather poor plan.

Don’t worry, I’m sure you are already on all kinds of strange watchlists for the government. What’s one more?

I work for the DOD.  😆 

[K-9]

1 hour ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

What's a rare Pepe?  Is it safe to Google it?

Ask @Gugny

[NoSaint]

32 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Ask @Gugny

i dont know if @Gugnyis the best standard bearer of what to google 

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, NoSaint said:

i dont know if @Gugnyis the best standard bearer of what to google 

 

 I would pay an obscene amount of money to keep my search history private.

[NoSaint]

4 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

 I would pay an obscene amount of money to keep my search history private.

we may need to start a fresh thread for the topic.

[Jauronimo]

4 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

I have no idea what any of that means.

You should probably do some research into Payton and the cesspool where he picked up his erudite political beliefs before continuing to argue the kid is a child prodigy because of what his parents do.

[Brand J]

32 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

You should probably do some research into Payton and the cesspool where he picked up his erudite political beliefs before continuing to argue the kid is a child prodigy because of what his parents do.

Maybe you should learn to read because nowhere did I call him a prodigy. I have no idea who this kid is, only repeated what those around him have said about him “the boy is very intelligent. His parents aren’t some hillbillies from the sticks, both are engineers and well-off. Payton was going to pursue engineering as well.”
My argument was that an idiotic belief system doesn’t necessarily equate to a low IQ. One can be intelligent in many other areas, but lack logical reasoning in another.

[Jauronimo]

46 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

Maybe you should learn to read because nowhere did I call him a prodigy. I have no idea who this kid is, only repeated what those around him have said about him “the boy is very intelligent. His parents aren’t some hillbillies from the sticks, both are engineers and well-off. Payton was going to pursue engineering as well.”
My argument was that an idiotic belief system doesn’t necessarily equate to a low IQ. One can be intelligent in many other areas, but lack logical reasoning in another.

His parents both work for the Department of Transportation in Binghamton.  They are from the sticks, they're well off in the sense that they don't need to put their shoes on to use the bathroom, and the kid gets his political beliefs from the same site where trading pics of tortured animals is apparently cool.  4Chan was the breeding ground for other political luminaries like the legions of QAnon.  If you want to see intelligence on display, read his nonsensical manifesto.   

 

So you can believe what a few "aw shucks" small town folks have to say about Payton or you can form your own opinions based on the facts as they are known.  I don't put much weight in the trite, small town murderer speech "he was a good boy from a fine family.  He was polite and always good in school. The boy I know would never have done something like this."

 

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/my-parents-know-something-s-wrong-but-accused-tops-killer-lied-to-fool-them/article_fc32f346-d7ad-11ec-bc5a-a3f2046a9cc7.html

[Brand J]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

His parents both work for the Department of Transportation in Binghamton.  They are from the sticks, they're well off in the sense that they don't need to put their shoes on to use the bathroom, and the kid gets his political beliefs from the same site where trading pics of tortured animals is apparently cool.  4Chan was the breeding ground for other political luminaries like the legions of QAnon.  If you want to see intelligence on display, read his nonsensical manifesto.   

 

So you can believe what a few "aw shucks" small town folks have to say about Payton or you can form your own opinions based on the facts as they are known.  I don't put much weight in the trite, small town murderer speech "he was a good boy from a fine family.  He was polite and always good in school. The boy I know would never have done something like this."

 

https://buffalonews.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/my-parents-know-something-s-wrong-but-accused-tops-killer-lied-to-fool-them/article_fc32f346-d7ad-11ec-bc5a-a3f2046a9cc7.html

Both parents are civil engineers who earn a combined salary of close to $200,000/yr. The way you describe them is a bit disingenuous, “they don’t need to put on shoes to use the bathroom.”

 
The article you referenced does a pretty good job of illustrating what Payton’s family life was like and why everyone who knew this kid was completely surprised by his actions. Were they also wrong in their assessments of his smarts, or intelligence? I have no idea. Again, I only shared their thoughts and referenced his parents’ achievements to suggest he likely didn’t have a low IQ (majoring in any engineering field is extremely difficult. I’d like to believe that I’m intelligent, but I couldn’t come close to hacking it in Comp Sci).

The kid had them all fooled, he was living a lie. We can blame his parents for not looking closer. The speeding ticket outside of Buffalo should’ve brought questions for one. We know who Payton Gendron is today because of his evil acts. Don’t get it misunderstood, my opinions of the boy ARE formed because of what he did, but there’s an extremely long list of dictators and terrorists who carried faulty logic or beliefs in their evil plans, but the fault doesn’t suggest that all were of low IQ. That’s my argument.

Edited May 26, 2022 by JayBaller10

[NoSaint]

4 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

Both parents are civil engineers who earn a combined salary of close to $200,000/yr. The way you describe them is a bit disingenuous, “they don’t need to put on shoes to use the bathroom.”

 
The article you referenced does a pretty good job of illustrating what Payton’s family life was like and why everyone who knew this kid was completely surprised by his actions. Were they also wrong in their assessments of his smarts, or intelligence? I have no idea. Again, I only shared their thoughts and referenced his parents’ achievements to suggest he likely didn’t have a low IQ (majoring in any engineering field is extremely difficult. I’d like to believe that I’m intelligent, but I couldn’t come close to hacking it in Comp Sci).

The kid had them all fooled, he was living a lie. We can blame his parents for not looking closer. The speeding ticket outside of Buffalo should’ve brought questions for one. We know who Payton Gendron is today because of his evil acts. Don’t get it misunderstood, my opinions of the boy ARE formed because of what he did, but there’s an extremely long list of dictators and terrorists who carried faulty logic or beliefs in their evil plans, but the fault doesn’t suggest that all were of low IQ. That’s my argument.

the kid was brought in on a mental evaluation hold a year prior. 
 

how can anyone close to him describe being shocked that he did the thing that spurred that? 
 

we see “he was a good boy” and “I am shocked” across all lines and backgrounds. To publicly say otherwise for many close to these horrific criminals is akin to saying “I failed those people by not speaking up sooner” and it just doesn’t happen often. 

[WhoTom]

10 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

 I would pay an obscene amount of money to keep my search history private.

 

Send me a check and I'll show you the secret of using your browser's privacy/incognito mode.

 

 

[Jauronimo]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

the kid was brought in on a mental evaluation hold a year prior. 
 

how can anyone close to him describe being shocked that he did the thing that spurred that? 
 

we see “he was a good boy” and “I am shocked” across all lines and backgrounds. To publicly say otherwise for many close to these horrific criminals is akin to saying “I failed those people by not speaking up sooner” and it just doesn’t happen often. 

Kid who had threatened a school shooting and was held in a hospital for a psych e v a l and then tortured a stray cat.  If only there was some kind of warning signs...

[BillsFan619]

I know some may say it’s just pennies to these players but it’s a pretty cool gesture that Bills players stepped up to pay for one of the victim’s funeral expenses.

 

Way to go!

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/05/23/bills-players-paying-for-funeral-of-buffalo-shooting-victim

Edited May 27, 2022 by BillsFan619

[Let's Go Buffalo]

Prayers go out to all the victims' families. Buffalo is a very special place with amazing people who support it, and the players always seem to step up as well. I'm not from Buffalo, and don't live there, but from the outside looking in, I've always had the utmost respect for you all! Thanks again from a proud fan from Kansas.

[Dablitzkrieg]

5 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Enough 'prayers' for this senseless violence. It is time to step up to the plate, and do something about it.

 

Exactly.   Tell us what you are doing?

[Dablitzkrieg]

8 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Whenever I can, I bring Ammunition, into the public conversation. We cannot do anything about guns, but we CAN do something about 'consumables'.

What are *YOU* doing about this issue??????????????????????????

First,  what are consumables?  I offered to volunteer as security at my children's school.   I'm a frustrated normal Joe.  I talk about things that both extreme Right and Left disagree on.   I'm feeling like nothing will change until the leadership changes in Washington

Edited May 27, 2022 by Dablitzkrieg

[muppy]

34 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Make it REALLY difficult to purchase ammunition.

Law abiding gun owners should not have a problem with some red tape, to stop gun violence. State reasons for purchase, Licensing, Means testing, etc. Charge a REALLY high price, for a box of 7.62×39mm 'AK' rounds. Stop teenagers, who frequently don't know which end is up, from purchasing such a destructive weapon. The two most recent, unfortunate senseless killings in Buffalo, and Uvalde, were committed by teenagers. It is time to take weapons of Mass Destruction, out of their hands.

There is no way to take guns away from Americans.

                                     Ever.

We can do something about regulating Ammunition, and we need to do it NOW.

what you propose are ideas that could well Help deter lawbreaking and ultimately save lives. Now tell me what snowball chance in hell that the NRA would concede....I see Their efforts as fighting to keep the gains they perceive "won"  within their lobbying efforts. I don't see the NRA budging an inch. Hence congress will show by their votes and actions just WHO they are the most indebted to. Their political contributors or constituency. HA!~!

 

Put up or shut up Congress this may be a watershed issue. deal with it.

[Let's Go Buffalo]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Enough 'prayers' for this senseless violence. It is time to step up to the plate, and do something about it.

 

I understand it's also about taking action. I do what I can do at this point in time, and that's to offer donations and prayers to the victims' families, and trying my best to educate today's youth and families. I'm an Elementary Teacher and a School Counselor, so my goal everyday is to try and make as much difference as possible in the lives of our youth. That's what I can do now, and hopefully I can do more in the future.

[BillsPride12]

On 5/24/2022 at 5:43 PM, JayBaller10 said:

Are you saying Payton is low IQ? Both parents are engineers, everyone surrounding him stated how intelligent he was, he wanted to be an engineer himself. I don’t think he’s low IQ, he’s just evil. Evil people can be highly intelligent.

Agree with this but also agree with the original guy's point that if this kid believed in that replacement theory BS and White Supremacy he was still a DUMBASS in another way.