Kyler Murray unfollows Cardinals on social media

[dave mcbride]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Wrong way around. 

Baseball is great. Soccer sucks in the US because the talent and the professional system suck, but it's still a great game. Anyone American who is any good ain't staying to play here. They are moving on to the big leagues. In terms of talent/competitiveness, MLS remains a step below the Turkish league, and that's why the sport has never become popular here. It's not the sport; it's the fact that a US league is simply unable to break out of the ranks of developing world countries. No one here wants to watch that -- Americans like being number one, after all. That's why the Premier League is actually more popular in the US than the crap product fans are offered here. I have been hearing for close to 50 years (Pele!) about how soccer will break out of the cult sport ghetto, but it has never come close to happening. Tons of kids play it here, but once they get to 13-14 years old the talented ones are funneled into the sports that "matter."  It's a vicious cycle and I don't see it ending any time soon.

Edited February 8, 2022 by dave mcbride

[eball]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:57 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

That wins out hands-down over anything Allen did in the Houston playoff game, and he deserves a ***** ton of flak for it.

 

Sugar High Josh looked at that play and told Murray to "settle down."

[stevewin]

3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

I consider myself pretty into sports in general, and I don't even notice that baseball is going on. For all I know there are games tonight. Now if it's a Tuesday night and there's nothing else on I might put on game 7 of a World Series during dinner just to have something on.  

This is one of the most vicious lowkey disses I've ever seen lol

[Freak-O]

3 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

I personally can't watch either. 

 

Soccer fans are so intense for a game where nobody ever scores and it just ends in penalty kicks where the goalie has to defend a net the size of a house. 

 

Personally I'd rather watch a sport where every goal matters than something like basketball. Penalty kicks are only used in playoff situations in the big international tournaments btw.

[Mattymafia]

I'm not gonna buy into this because I have seen Tre White do the same thing at least twice during the off season. 

[TheFunPolice]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

You are wildly wrong about baseball's popularity: https://www.thesportsbank.net/business/nfl-vs-mlb-detailed-look-at-popularity-levels-of-both-sports/. Sure, the NFL is king by a long ways, but baseball is a LOT more popular than basketball and hockey. And as for TV ratings, comparing the two is silly even though the NFL is obviously king. Baseball's bread and butter is 30 local deals, not the national contracts with the networks. 

 

If you lived in Boston, NY, LA, or St. Louis, you'd realize how culturally resonant baseball is with the average person. The Yankees, for instance, are the most popular team in NY State, and by a fair amount. The Giants are third. https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2016/04/05/new-york-giants-top-buffalo-bills-new-york-jets-as-most-popular-team-in-the-state/

 

I guess it's more popular than I realized, so that's good for MLB fans!

 

In WNY we get all up in arms when people mock the NHL, so I get it. Come to think of it, MAN do I miss hockey. It's like the Sabres disappeared 10 years ago and moved to the moon. 

[dave mcbride]

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

 

I guess it's more popular than I realized, so that's good for MLB fans!

 

In WNY we get all up in arms when people mock the NHL, so I get it. Come to think of it, MAN do I miss hockey. It's like the Sabres disappeared 10 years ago and moved to the moon. 

I totally hear you about Buffalo. Growing up there, I thought the NHL was massively popular. Then you go elsewhere, and you learn that it's not. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

6 hours ago, benderbender said:

Murray would be much better off in a non-contact sport. Pitch counts, over a 4 hour game, with plenty of rest between games? Sounds like less overall injury risk for a game in which height doesn’t matter as much. Also MLB players make more money on average AND their contracts are guaranteed. Sounds like a no brainer. 

 

Average contract doesn't apply when we're talking about a #1 overall pick QB that has 3 solid-to-great seasons under his belt. Spotrac already has his market value at 43 mm. 

 

Unless he has a devastating injury and/or his play falls off a kliff he's going to be making bank on his next contract. 

 

If he goes to MLB he'll have a few years on a rookie contract and after that he'd have to be literally the best player in MLB history to even approach what he will make as a QB.

 

Not really buying the injury risks when he's missed 3 NFL games total in 3 seasons. MLB is less violent than the NFL, but there's still plenty of injury risks. Sliding into bases ain't no joke, and there's a huge toll on muscles/joints by throwing a ball or swinging a bat as often as they do.   

[CincyBillsFan]

1 hour ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Average contract doesn't apply when we're talking about a #1 overall pick QB that has 3 solid-to-great seasons under his belt. Spotrac already has his market value at 43 mm. 

 

Unless he has a devastating injury and/or his play falls off a kliff he's going to be making bank on his next contract. 

 

If he goes to MLB he'll have a few years on a rookie contract and after that he'd have to be literally the best player in MLB history to even approach what he will make as a QB.

 

Not really buying the injury risks when he's missed 3 NFL games total in 3 seasons. MLB is less violent than the NFL, but there's still plenty of injury risks. Sliding into bases ain't no joke, and there's a huge toll on muscles/joints by throwing a ball or swinging a bat as often as they do.   

I think Murray's terrible performance in his first playoff game at the end of his 3rd season is cause for concern.  I don't see anyone paying him over 40 million per year in a long term contract (as opposed to year-to-year as a franchise QB) until they get a better read on whether he can up his game in the playoffs.

 

The other issue with Murray is that looking at his stats he has not improved over his first three seasons.  His TD pass numbers, TD/INT ratio and passing yards appear to have plateaued.  He has not thrown for 30 TD's yet nor has he thrown for over 4,000 yards.  From a stat & eye test Murray is similar to Dak Prescott but 6 inches shorter.

 

 

 

 

[eball]

6 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Baseball is great. Soccer sucks in the US because the talent and the professional system suck, but it's still a great game. Anyone American who is any good ain't staying to play here. They are moving on to the big leagues. In terms of talent/competitiveness, MLS remains a step below the Turkish league, and that's why the sport has never become popular here. It's not the sport; it's the fact that a US league is simply unable to break out of the ranks of developing world countries. No one here wants to watch that -- Americans like being number one, after all. That's why the Premier League is actually more popular in the US than the crap product fans are offered here. I have been hearing for close to 50 years (Pele!) about how soccer will break out of the cult sport ghetto, but it has never come close to happening. Tons of kids play it here, but once they get to 13-14 years old the talented ones are funneled into the sports that "matter."  It's a vicious cycle and I don't see it ending any time soon.

Before I begin my response let me make something clear: I like soccer. I played it at a reasonably high level through high school. My dad was German and actually had some records at UB for a while. I understand and respect the game. 
 

I don’t watch soccer now except for the Euros and World Cup. Couldn’t care less about the leagues here and abroad. 
 

I have always stated, and still believe, that soccer is the world’s most popular sport for one reason only — it’s cheap. You need a field and a ball. It can be played anywhere and requires no financial investment. But it’s not the most entertaining or “beautiful” sport. Not by a long shot.
 

I’ve heard the same people predict soccer’s rise in the US over the years and chuckled under my breath. I think it is as big as it will ever get. 

[ArtVandalay]

On 2/7/2022 at 1:40 PM, Albany,n.y. said:

Let the rumors start that he's going back to baseball.  

 

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nfl/cardinals/2022/02/07/kyler-murray-unfollows-cardinals-social-media-scrubs-photos/6689468001/

Did he start following the Athletics?

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I think Murray's terrible performance in his first playoff game at the end of his 3rd season is cause for concern.  I don't see anyone paying him over 40 million per year in a long term contract (as opposed to year-to-year as a franchise QB) until they get a better read on whether he can up his game in the playoffs.

 

The other issue with Murray is that looking at his stats he has not improved over his first three seasons.  His TD pass numbers, TD/INT ratio and passing yards appear to have plateaued.  He has not thrown for 30 TD's yet nor has he thrown for over 4,000 yards.  From a stat & eye test Murray is similar to Dak Prescott but 6 inches shorter.

 

 

 

 

He’s got them by the balls.  He’s doing what Lamar should’ve done last offseason.
 

-They built their offense around him and basically wasted a first round pick the year before which they traded up for.

 

-They’re in the best division in the NFC where if you don’t have a top qb you’re screwed.

 

-He’s proven himself enough where he can demand top dollar.

 

-He has the trump card in threatening to go play for the A’s and retire.

 

[CincyBillsFan]

10 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

He’s got them by the balls.  He’s doing what Lamar should’ve done last offseason.
 

-They built their offense around him and basically wasted a first round pick the year before which they traded up for.

 

-They’re in the best division in the NFC where if you don’t have a top qb you’re screwed.

 

-He’s proven himself enough where he can demand top dollar.

 

-He has the trump card in threatening to go play for the A’s and retire.

 

I agree with 3 of your 4 points.  But IMO Murray has not proved himself yet. 

 

After three seasons:

 

*  He has yet to throw for 4000 or more yards.

 

*  He has yet to throw 30 or more TD's

 

*  If you look at his trajectory he has not really improved since his rookie season.

 

*  His one playoff game was a disaster.  It was one of the worst QBed playoff games I've seen in the last 20 years.

 

IMO the Cards would be better off with Jimmy G at QB. 

 

As an aside can you imaging if Allen had the same stats and outcomes after 3 full seasons, including a playoff game, that Murray has had? It would be a blood bath on 2BD and a lot of people would be screaming that no way should the Bills give Allen a big contract.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

Seven pages about whether a QB unfollowed a social media site? What would Johnny Unitas think about this? Ugh!

[BuffaloBillyG]

11 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I agree with 3 of your 4 points.  But IMO Murray has not proved himself yet. 

 

After three seasons:

 

*  He has yet to throw for 4000 or more yards.

 

*  He has yet to throw 30 or more TD's

 

*  If you look at his trajectory he has not really improved since his rookie season.

 

*  His one playoff game was a disaster.  It was one of the worst QBed playoff games I've seen in the last 20 years.

 

IMO the Cards would be better off with Jimmy G at QB. 

 

As an aside can you imaging if Allen had the same stats and outcomes after 3 full seasons, including a playoff game, that Murray has had? It would be a blood bath on 2BD and a lot of people would be screaming that no way should the Bills give Allen a big contract.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a second.

 

This year Murray had:

4300 yards and 29 TDs while missing 3 games.

 

Last year:

4790 yards and 37 TDs

 

Rookie year:

4266 yards and 24 TDs

 

Allen's first 3 years he had:

2020- 4965 yards and 45 TDs

2019- 3599 yards and 29 TDs

2018- 2704 yards and 18 TDs (12 games)

 

On these boards when trying to prove a point about Allen we include his rushing totals into an "all purpose" context quite frequently. Same can be done Murray.

 

His 1 playoff game was a disaster. However, to back and watch Josh in the 2nd half of his 1st playoff game against the Texans. 

 

Not saying Murray is going to follow the same path and has the same room to grow as Allen, however statistically speaking they are in the same ballpark through similar points of their career.

[dave mcbride]

13 hours ago, eball said:

Before I begin my response let me make something clear: I like soccer. I played it at a reasonably high level through high school. My dad was German and actually had some records at UB for a while. I understand and respect the game. 
 

I don’t watch soccer now except for the Euros and World Cup. Couldn’t care less about the leagues here and abroad. 
 

I have always stated, and still believe, that soccer is the world’s most popular sport for one reason only — it’s cheap. You need a field and a ball. It can be played anywhere and requires no financial investment. But it’s not the most entertaining or “beautiful” sport. Not by a long shot.
 

I’ve heard the same people predict soccer’s rise in the US over the years and chuckled under my breath. I think it is as big as it will ever get. 

It's less about money - it's the #1 sport in the wealthiest countries of the world (minus the US and Canada) by far -- and more about path dependency in fandom and age-old loyalties to venerable local teams that almost everyone in that locality has an interest in (think the Bills). I couldn't give a flying eff about the World Cup; what interests me is Leicester winning the Premier League after being a doormat for eons. Intense fandom in these places is tied to local teams just like fandom in the US is tied to teams that have been around forever and are basically part of the weather (i.e., the Red Sox, the Packers, etc.).  

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a second.

 

This year Murray had:

4300 yards and 29 TDs while missing 3 games.

 

Last year:

4790 yards and 37 TDs

 

Rookie year:

4266 yards and 24 TDs

 

Allen's first 3 years he had:

2020- 4965 yards and 45 TDs

2019- 3599 yards and 29 TDs

2018- 2704 yards and 18 TDs (12 games)

 

On these boards when trying to prove a point about Allen we include his rushing totals into an "all purpose" context quite frequently. Same can be done Murray.

 

His 1 playoff game was a disaster. However, to back and watch Josh in the 2nd half of his 1st playoff game against the Texans. 

 

Not saying Murray is going to follow the same path and has the same room to grow as Allen, however statistically speaking they are in the same ballpark through similar points of their career.

No reason to play Devils Advocate.  Your just telling the truth.

 

Murray has gotten better each season and the Cardinals have gotten better each season with him.

 

Completion %, Yards, Touchdowns, Yards per Attempt, Rating and Arizona team record

 

All have improved each season.

 

People got to let the Hail Murray Play really warp them.  Sheesh!

[BuffaloRebound]

There are at least 20 teams who’d be more than happy to give Murray a long term deal at $35+m per year.  The baseball thing is stupid and not even worth talking about.  The more relevant thing to talk about is how Lamar Jackson representing himself is hurting multiple QB’s.  I bet Mayfield would’ve got a long term deal last offseason if Jackson did.  I think Murray is in same boat this off-season.  There’s an order to these things and teams typically wait to see what the bigger fish signs for.  

[BuffaloBillyG]

8 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

No reason to play Devils Advocate.  Your just telling the truth.

 

Murray has gotten better each season and the Cardinals have gotten better each season with him.

 

Completion %, Yards, Touchdowns, Yards per Attempt, Rating and Arizona team record

 

All have improved each season.

 

People got to let the Hail Murray Play really warp them.  Sheesh!

Saying anything positive about any QB not named Josh Allen on these boards is a very dangerous game. Be it right or wrong😂

[GunnerBill]

46 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I agree with 3 of your 4 points.  But IMO Murray has not proved himself yet. 

 

After three seasons:

 

*  He has yet to throw for 4000 or more yards.

 

*  He has yet to throw 30 or more TD's

 

*  If you look at his trajectory he has not really improved since his rookie season.

 

*  His one playoff game was a disaster.  It was one of the worst QBed playoff games I've seen in the last 20 years.

 

IMO the Cards would be better off with Jimmy G at QB. 

 

As an aside can you imaging if Allen had the same stats and outcomes after 3 full seasons, including a playoff game, that Murray has had? It would be a blood bath on 2BD and a lot of people would be screaming that no way should the Bills give Allen a big contract.

 

I was with your previous post. Murray does strike me more as 2nd tier Quarterback in the Dak Prescott, Lamar Jackson mold than a real top tier guy who could break into the elite. 

 

But then you said the Cardinals would be better with Jimmy G who is very much a tier 3 guy. 

 

I would also say that I don't often rate QBs by their first playoff trip. That often goes sideways and doesn't mean a guy is bad. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

16 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I think Murray's terrible performance in his first playoff game at the end of his 3rd season is cause for concern.  I don't see anyone paying him over 40 million per year in a long term contract (as opposed to year-to-year as a franchise QB) until they get a better read on whether he can up his game in the playoffs.

 

The other issue with Murray is that looking at his stats he has not improved over his first three seasons.  His TD pass numbers, TD/INT ratio and passing yards appear to have plateaued.  He has not thrown for 30 TD's yet nor has he thrown for over 4,000 yards.  From a stat & eye test Murray is similar to Dak Prescott but 6 inches shorter.

 

 

 

 

 

Murray has shown year over year improvement in completion % and YPA even if total yards and TD have been relatively flat. This is reflected in his QB Rating: 

 

2019  - 87.4

2020 - 94.3

2021 - 100.6

 

We can argue over how important QBR is as a stat, but there's little doubt he's improved as a QB. 

 

It's a little ironic you're comparing him to Dak Prescott when Dak has a 40mm AAV contract. If you think Murray isn't worth 40mm+ what do you think he is worth? 35mm? 30mm? 

 

Let's compare that to MLB 

 

There's a total of 8 players (excluding pitchers) making 30+mm AAV. Only 2 of those guys are making 35mm+ with the most lucrative MLB contract coming in at 35.6mm.

 

From a $$ standpoint it would be ludicrous for Murray to switch sports at this time. He would have to be one of the very best players in MLB to even approach what an average QB makes in the NFL (and Murray has already shown to be above average). 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Murray has shown year over year improvement in completion % and YPA even if total yards and TD have been relatively flat. This is reflected in his QB Rating: 

 

2019  - 87.4

2020 - 94.3

2021 - 100.6

 

We can argue over how important QBR is as a stat, but there's little doubt he's improved as a QB. 

 

It's a little ironic you're comparing him to Dak Prescott when Dak has a 40mm AAV contract. If you think Murray isn't worth 40mm+ what do you think he is worth? 35mm? 30mm? 

 

Let's compare that to MLB 

 

There's a total of 8 players (excluding pitchers) making 30+mm AAV. Only 2 of those guys are making 35mm+ with the most lucrative MLB contract coming in at 35.6mm.

 

From a $$ standpoint it would be ludicrous for Murray to switch sports at this time. He would have to be one of the very best players in MLB to even approach what an average QB makes in the NFL (and Murray has already shown to be above average). 

 

 

Sure his QB ratings have gone up but no where near as much as Allen's did through his first 3 seasons:

 

2018 = 67.9

2019 = 85.3

2020 = 107.2

 

IMO Murray isn't throwing the ball all that much better now then he was throwing it his rookie year.

 

As for the Cowboys paying Dak 40 million per year? They're going to feel more and more like the Vikings do with Cousins over the next couple of seasons.  So what would I pay Murray if I owned Arizona? Somewhere between 25 - 30 million dollars per year.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I was with your previous post. Murray does strike me more as 2nd tier Quarterback in the Dak Prescott, Lamar Jackson mold than a real top tier guy who could break into the elite. 

 

But then you said the Cardinals would be better with Jimmy G who is very much a tier 3 guy. 

 

I would also say that I don't often rate QBs by their first playoff trip. That often goes sideways and doesn't mean a guy is bad. 

We'll have to agree to disagree on Jimmy G.  IMO he's definitely a tier 2 level QB. Sure he's not as flashy as Murray but his playoff success and won/lost record should not be downplayed.

 

I get that we don't want to rate a QB solely based on their first playoff trip but my goodness Murray's performance was awful.  He pretty much single handily lost that game.  And given that this came at the end of three full seasons was a shock and I believe does indicate a bigger problem.

 

 

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

7 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a second.

 

This year Murray had:

4300 yards and 29 TDs while missing 3 games.

 

Last year:

4790 yards and 37 TDs

 

Rookie year:

4266 yards and 24 TDs

 

Allen's first 3 years he had:

2020- 4965 yards and 45 TDs

2019- 3599 yards and 29 TDs

2018- 2704 yards and 18 TDs (12 games)

 

On these boards when trying to prove a point about Allen we include his rushing totals into an "all purpose" context quite frequently. Same can be done Murray.

 

His 1 playoff game was a disaster. However, to back and watch Josh in the 2nd half of his 1st playoff game against the Texans. 

 

Not saying Murray is going to follow the same path and has the same room to grow as Allen, however statistically speaking they are in the same ballpark through similar points of their career.

Allen's trajectory was almost straight up through his first three seasons. At best Murray has seen a very shallow rise in his offensive production through the same period of time.

 

And there is no way you can compare Murray's disaster of a first playoff game to Allen's first game.  Allen's first playoff game was after his 2nd season while Murray's was after his 3rd.  Sure Allen had a couple of bad series but otherwise played very well.  In fact Allen led the Bills on a late 4th quarter drive that put them into FG range and sent the game into OT.  Allen also played well in OT in that game. Murray pretty much singly handily cost Arizona their playoff game with one of the worst performances from start to finish then I have ever seen in a playoff game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

We'll have to agree to disagree on Jimmy G.  IMO he's definitely a tier 2 level QB. Sure he's not as flashy as Murray but his playoff success and won/lost record should not be downplayed.

 

 

How many playoff games have been won because of him? He averages 160 passing yards per game in the playoffs. No way is he tier 2. Just absolutely no ***** way. He can't make the throws. He is a tier 3 Quarterback. Nothing to do with being flashy. He can't make the throws. He makes zero anticipation throws and very few tight window throws. He is a slightly stronger armed Tua. 

Edited February 9, 2022 by GunnerBill

[BuffaloBillyG]

20 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Allen's trajectory was almost straight up through his first three seasons. At best Murray has seen a very shallow rise in his offensive production through the same period of time.

 

And there is no way you can compare Murray's disaster of a first playoff game to Allen's first game.  Allen's first playoff game was after his 2nd season while Murray's was after his 3rd.  Sure Allen had a couple of bad series but otherwise played very well.  In fact Allen led the Bills on a late 4th quarter drive that put them into FG range and sent the game into OT.  Allen also played well in OT in that game. Murray pretty much singly handily cost Arizona their playoff game with one of the worst performances from start to finish then I have ever seen in a playoff game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Super. Feel better now? Terrific.

 

Murray had a bad first playoff game. Happens a LOT with great QBs.

 

There is zero debate here to be had, though. Murray started with a higher floor than Allen and has performed at MINIMUM at the same level statistically speaking. 

 

That's not saying he's better, worse or the same as Allen. Just that they have been productive at the same statistic level. Allen has absolutely hit higher highs...however (AGAIN STATISTICALLY SPEAKING) he has also hit MUCH lower lows. Again, there is nothing at all even debatable there. 

[FLFan]

7 hours ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Murray has shown year over year improvement in completion % and YPA even if total yards and TD have been relatively flat. This is reflected in his QB Rating: 

 

2019  - 87.4

2020 - 94.3

2021 - 100.6

 

We can argue over how important QBR is as a stat, but there's little doubt he's improved as a QB. 

 

It's a little ironic you're comparing him to Dak Prescott when Dak has a 40mm AAV contract. If you think Murray isn't worth 40mm+ what do you think he is worth? 35mm? 30mm? 

 

Let's compare that to MLB 

 

There's a total of 8 players (excluding pitchers) making 30+mm AAV. Only 2 of those guys are making 35mm+ with the most lucrative MLB contract coming in at 35.6mm.

 

From a $$ standpoint it would be ludicrous for Murray to switch sports at this time. He would have to be one of the very best players in MLB to even approach what an average QB makes in the NFL (and Murray has already shown to be above average). 

 

 

I would argue Dak is not worth that contract either.  It does not mean Murray will not get it - Dak did, and Lamar probably will  - but paying any of these guys as elite QBs is problematic.  Murray is not elite.  Murray is a poor leader, and while an exciting player, has a very limited skill set.  If AZ ties their franchise to him (and by extension their goofy coach) I think they will be sorry.  They should at least get used to disappointing season ends, just like Dallas.

[CincyBillsFan]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

Super. Feel better now? Terrific.

 

Murray had a bad first playoff game. Happens a LOT with great QBs.

 

There is zero debate here to be had, though. Murray started with a higher floor than Allen and has performed at MINIMUM at the same level statistically speaking. 

 

That's not saying he's better, worse or the same as Allen. Just that they have been productive at the same statistic level. Allen has absolutely hit higher highs...however (AGAIN STATISTICALLY SPEAKING) he has also hit MUCH lower lows. Again, there is nothing at all even debatable there. 

You're right that there is no debate that by his 3rd season Allen was clearly performing better then Murray at the end of his 3rd season. 

 

And while a lot of QB's struggle in their first playoff game Murray melted down in way that rarely happens.

[BuffaloBillyG]

17 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

You're right that there is no debate that by his 3rd season Allen was clearly performing better then Murray at the end of his 3rd season. 

 

And while a lot of QB's struggle in their first playoff game Murray melted down in way that rarely happens.

You made 2 statements. Both incredibly incorrect. I have provided the stats that were in question upthread. Can you provide an intellectual counter argument backed by the statistics (which was the diacussion) or are you just yammering?

[CincyBillsFan]

13 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

You made 2 statements. Both incredibly incorrect. I have provided the stats that were in question upthread. Can you provide an intellectual counter argument backed by the statistics (which was the diacussion) or are you just yammering?

I disagree with your conclusion that the stats (including playoffs) show that Allen & Murray were equal after their 3rd seasons. And the gap is even wider if you include Allen's 4th year stats.  Is that intellectual enough for you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BuffaloBillyG]

6 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I disagree with your conclusion that the stats (including playoffs) show that Allen & Murray were equal after their 3rd seasons. And the gap is even wider if you include Allen's 4th year stats.  Is that intellectual enough for you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

No. It's not even close.

 

Your big conclusion is adding Allen's 4th year widens the gap. No ****? Another year helps when adding stats up? Who knew?

 

The entire discussion was the 1st 3 years of their career. You keep attempting to change that. Either you can't even comprehend what the discussion is or you cannot emotionally handle that there are other QBs that have played on the same level as Josh Allen STATISTICALLY through their 1st 3 years. 

 

So, in retrospect I asked if you were able to supply a statistic based counter argument or were just yammering. Yammering it is. 

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

30 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

...or were just yammering. Yammering it is. 

I thought this  ⬇️ was 'yammering'!

Edited February 10, 2022 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[Malazan]

17 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Allen's trajectory was almost straight up through his first three seasons. At best Murray has seen a very shallow rise in his offensive production through the same period of time.

 

And there is no way you can compare Murray's disaster of a first playoff game to Allen's first game.  Allen's first playoff game was after his 2nd season while Murray's was after his 3rd.  Sure Allen had a couple of bad series but otherwise played very well.  In fact Allen led the Bills on a late 4th quarter drive that put them into FG range and sent the game into OT.  Allen also played well in OT in that game. Murray pretty much singly handily cost Arizona their playoff game with one of the worst performances from start to finish then I have ever seen in a playoff game.

 

I don't think Murray is going to be one of the guys in the top 10 of QBs year after year and I wouldn't want him as the leader of my team. 

 

However, Allen is a Unicorn. There's few players to have that sort of trajectory.  It's like when people start in with the 'Tom Brady was a 6th round pick" stuff. Pointless comparison. 

Edited February 10, 2022 by Malazan

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

16 minutes ago, Malazan said:

It's like when people start in with the 'Tom Brady was a 6th round pick" stuff. Pointless comparison. 

True, but you have to consider 'pre contract' or 'post contract'.  And which  contract.

[Albany,n.y.]

15 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

You made 2 statements. Both incredibly incorrect. I have provided the stats that were in question upthread. Can you provide an intellectual counter argument backed by the statistics (which was the diacussion) or are you just yammering?

Stats are for losers, especially QB stats. Always have been, always will.  That's why teams spend hours looking at film rather than a few minutes looking at stats.  

1 hour ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

No. It's not even close.

 

Your big conclusion is adding Allen's 4th year widens the gap. No ****? Another year helps when adding stats up? Who knew?

 

The entire discussion was the 1st 3 years of their career. You keep attempting to change that. Either you can't even comprehend what the discussion is or you cannot emotionally handle that there are other QBs that have played on the same level as Josh Allen STATISTICALLY through their 1st 3 years. 

 

So, in retrospect I asked if you were able to supply a statistic based counter argument or were just yammering. Yammering it is. 

I'll repeat: Stats are for losers, especially QB stats. Always have been, always will.  That's why teams spend hours looking at film rather than a few minutes looking at stats.  

Get your head out of stats & watch some video of games!  

[BuffaloBillyG]

9 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Stats are for losers, especially QB stats. Always have been, always will.  That's why teams spend hours looking at film rather than a few minutes looking at stats.  

I'll repeat: Stats are for losers, especially QB stats. Always have been, always will.  That's why teams spend hours looking at film rather than a few minutes looking at stats.  

Get your head out of stats & watch some video of games!  

I'm sorry. I'm already debating one person with a clueless view. I limit my interaction with clueless takes to one a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow's not looking great either. I can pencil you in for Tuesday if that works?

[Albany,n.y.]

16 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I'm sorry. I'm already debating one person with a clueless view. I limit my interaction with clueless takes to one a day. Today's not your day. Tomorrow's not looking great either. I can pencil you in for Tuesday if that works?

Don't, stat boy.  Go and watch some NFL games, stop looking at stats & then you might actually get a clue.  If you do that it will take a lot longer than Tuesday for you to understand NFL football.  Get back to us in a few months after you've been educated.  

Edited February 10, 2022 by Albany,n.y.

[EasternOHBillsFan]

27 minutes ago, Albany,n.y. said:

Don't, stat boy.  Go and watch some NFL games, stop looking at stats & then you might actually get a clue.  If you do that it will take a lot longer than Tuesday for you to understand NFL football.  Get back to us in a few months after you've been educated.  

 

"Stats are for losers" coming from which NFL scouting or personnel expertise?

 

You are making declarations as if you are an expert when clearly you aren't in a position to be considered one. Watching football on television or your DVR is not experience, FYI, so when you make statements like that it reflects poorly on YOU.

[Albany,n.y.]

12 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

"Stats are for losers" coming from which NFL scouting or personnel expertise?

 

You are making declarations as if you are an expert when clearly you aren't in a position to be considered one. Watching football on television or your DVR is not experience, FYI, so when you make statements like that it reflects poorly on YOU.

Tell me, why do the pros spend hours looking at film?  It reflects poorly on YOU that you don't understand what the professionals do. 

Stats are for losers, LOSER.   

[DJB]

Murray has always come off as a whiny cry baby