Buffalo Bills’ salary cap ramifications of cutting DT Star Lotulelei

[Hapless Bills Fan]

19 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

If cut, they’d designate him as a 6/1 cut.  (Teams get 2 per year.)  That means Star would stay on our books until 6/1, but off-season bonuses would be void.  It also eliminates any potential for obligation resulting from him being injured in team activities.  And he’d be free to sign elsewhere immediately.

 

 My point was that the OP I was responding to was wrong about Lotulelei's dead cap, even if cut as a post-June 1. 

 

 

Even if cut as a post-June1 cut, Star's dead cap would be $5.1M this season (guaranteed salary this season and amortized signing bonus for this season).  He would then kick $2.6M (next years signing bonus) into 2023.  Cap savings would be $4M

 

As a pre June1 cut, of course, both '22 and '23 amortized signing bonus and Star's guaranteed $2.5M salary for '22 would count against this year's cap, so the dead cap would be $7.7M and savings would be $1.5M

 

Both Spotract and Overthecap have different details but agree.  The "Dead cap $2M, savings $6M is simply incorrect" in either scenario.

https://overthecap.com/player/star-lotulelei/2282/

[BarleyNY]

15 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 My point was that the OP I was responding to was wrong about Lotulelei's dead cap, even if cut as a post-June 1. 

 

 

Even if cut as a post-June1 cut, Star's dead cap would be $5.1M this season (guaranteed salary this season and amortized signing bonus for this season).  He would then kick $2.6M (next years signing bonus) into 2023.  Cap savings would be $4M

 

As a pre June1 cut, of course, both '22 and '23 amortized signing bonus and Star's guaranteed $2.5M salary for '22 would count against this year's cap, so the dead cap would be $7.7M and savings would be $1.5M

 

Both Spotract and Overthecap have different details but agree.  The "Dead cap $2M, savings $6M is simply incorrect" in either scenario.

https://overthecap.com/player/star-lotulelei/2282/

I was responding to your statement about cutting Star post 6/1.  I stated what their realistic course of action would be and was not commenting on your other discussion.  Your numbers match what I posted earlier.

 

My specific point about him being cut by March 26th and designated a 6/1 cut concerns his $500k 3/26 roster bonus and $250k work out bonus.  The team would have to pay those if he was not released until after 6/1.  That $750k would also hit our cap.

Edited February 8, 2022 by BarleyNY

[Hapless Bills Fan]

34 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said:

You're saying "on the field" but refering to off the field.  I understand people are frustrated, including our FO- the covid skip, the OTA miss, and time off last year are all annoying.

 

But the guy was not a total screw up.   Came here in fantastic shape.  Really looked good out to the gate.  People are quick to forget how in 2020 we talked a lot about how Star's absence was a large factor in the overall disappointing showing of the D that year.  How missing Star wasn't just a downgrade at that position but was negatively affecting the other players performances as well.

 

You don't get a player anywhere near the type of skill/experience/production Star can give us for $1.5M or even the $2.6M.   The move is not to jettison a good player because you are upset with him, it is instead time for McD to get this guy back.

 

This. 

 

Of course, there were folks here who held the viewpoint that Star wasn't the "missing link" or that big of a downgrade in 2020, so they didn't buy that talk then, and the end of the season only reinforced that viewpoint.

 

But yeah, I don't know what the people who think "Ankou is better" or "anyone off the street would be just as good" are seeing. 

 

It's 100% reasonable to question whether the Bills have received the ROI on the big contract and guarantees they gave Star, especially with the year-long Covid opt-out followed by contracting Covid and reportedly being "affected by it" the rest of the season (per Beane).  then there's the mysterious "personal reasons" week.

 

But the pragmatic question the Bills have to answer is: "Can we replace Star with a rookie or with a lower-tier FA DT who will sign for $1.5M (savings pre June 1) or $4.1M (savings post-June 1)?"

 

A person could scan the FA lists at IDL (Overthecap) or DT (Spotrac) to see who is available, with the caveat one needs to dig into what type of DT they are (NT or 1T is what we're looking for)

[BADOLBILZ]

12 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Cut him or keep him. Whichever. But there's no way to change his contract or make new conditions. He can come or not. It'll depend on what he wants, as it's voluntary. He's had a $250K work out bonus every year. If he doesn't come they won't pay, and if he comes they'll pay. It's in the contract, and that's the end of it. And while he didn't come to OTAs last year there's one thing we can be sure of, and that's that it didn't affect his fitness one bit. He was in terrific shape.

 

 

First of all.......again,  I'm all for moving on.    But I would have cut bait after the 2019 season rather than guarantee his 2020 salary in exchange for saving a couple million on the cap.    Obviously my way would have been the right way.........re-structuring his contract in the manner they chose was a predictable failure.

 

But with about $4.2M in earnable but unguaranteed money in his 2022 contract...........there is CERTAINLY a way to change his contract or make new conditions........that's called a "re-structure".

 

And he ain't making anything with an "$" on the front and "M" on the back in 2022 if it ain't with the Buffalo Bills.

 

And this time, the team has all the leverage........as opposed to back in February of 2020 before he had opted out on his team,  suffered multiple injuries,  refused vax and then got ill with covid etc..

 

As for not being able to incentivize people with money............you obviously haven't done much employing or hiring of contract work.    Money contingent on performance makes people WANT to do things they wouldn't otherwise want to do.   It is human nature.   Thinking otherwise is very naive/ignorant.

 

 

[JohnNord]

2 hours ago, Einstein's Dog said:

You're saying "on the field" but refering to off the field.  I understand people are frustrated, including our FO- the covid skip, the OTA miss, and time off last year are all annoying.

 

But the guy was not a total screw up.   Came here in fantastic shape.  Really looked good out to the gate.  People are quick to forget how in 2020 we talked a lot about how Star's absence was a large factor in the overall disappointing showing of the D that year.  How missing Star wasn't just a downgrade at that position but was negatively affecting the other players performances as well.

 

You don't get a player anywhere near the type of skill/experience/production Star can give us for $1.5M or even the $2.6M.   The move is not to jettison a good player because you are upset with him, it is instead time for McD to get this guy back.

It’s a little of “on the field” and “off the field.” This regime usually doesn’t throw players under the bus and the not-so-favorable comments about Star are telling.  
 

I think you are giving him a bit too much credit for his play on the field.  People did think that Star’s absence was an issue in 2020 and then realized they were wrong as the Bills defense still got gashed on the group multiple times this season.  Remember how his presence was going to allow Edmunds to be a monster this year against the run?  It didn’t happen.  In fact, the guy from Cover 1 is posting dozens and dozens of videos showing why the bad play of the DT’s (namely Star and Butler) were the reason why Edmunds was often ineffective against the run. 

 

There actually was not that big of a drop off between Star and Eli Ankou who the Bills just re-signed.  
 

As much as you are cheerleading for Star is not going to be in the roster this season.   I can guarantee you that the Bills will cut him as they look to upgrade at DT.  
 

 

 

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This. 

 

Of course, there were folks here who held the viewpoint that Star wasn't the "missing link" or that big of a downgrade in 2020, so they didn't buy that talk then, and the end of the season only reinforced that viewpoint.

 

But yeah, I don't know what the people who think "Ankou is better" or "anyone off the street would be just as good" are seeing. 

 

It's 100% reasonable to question whether the Bills have received the ROI on the big contract and guarantees they gave Star, especially with the year-long Covid opt-out followed by contracting Covid and reportedly being "affected by it" the rest of the season (per Beane).  then there's the mysterious "personal reasons" week.

 

But the pragmatic question the Bills have to answer is: "Can we replace Star with a rookie or with a lower-tier FA DT who will sign for $1.5M (savings pre June 1) or $4.1M (savings post-June 1)?"

 

A person could scan the FA lists at IDL (Overthecap) or DT (Spotrac) to see who is available, with the caveat one needs to dig into what type of DT they are (NT or 1T is what we're looking for)

The answer to your question is “yes.”  
 

Remember how one of the big thing with McDermott was availability.  He has moved on from productive because they were injury prone.  Go back and watch McDermott answer questions about Star.  He answers in one word responses, which ridiculously short even by McDermott terms. 
 

The Bills could not get out of the Star contract unscathed.  They can this season.  I am 100% confident that Star is not on the roster next season.   Not surprised you are taking a contrarian approach with me though

Edited February 8, 2022 by JohnNord

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

As for not being able to incentivize people with money............you obviously haven't done much employing or hiring of contract work.    Money contingent on performance makes people WANT to do things they wouldn't otherwise want to do.   It is human nature.   Thinking otherwise is very naive/ignorant.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that you can't incentivize people with money.  I haven't seen anything that seems interpretable that way.  Straw man.  But monetary incentivization in general has limits once past the 2nd tier of Maslow's Hierarchy.  That applies to a player who has career earnings of $47.9 Million dollars and has likely handled it well.  The monetary leverage lessons of hiring contract workers, probably don't apply here.

 

Your exact words were "If he is going to be kept I'd insist that he be there for the offseason and OTA's to prove that he cares about being the best player he can be again."  Now you could have said something like "If he is going to be kept, the Bills should propose restructuring his contract to heavily incentivize participation in OTAs".  But you didn't.  You said "insist"

 

The point is, the Bills can't insist.  That's specifically prohibited by the CBA.

 

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

And this time, the team has all the leverage........as opposed to back in February of 2020 before he had opted out on his team,  suffered multiple injuries,  refused vax and then got ill with covid etc..

 

In the case of Star Lotulelei, again, I'm not opposed to the  Bills moving on at this point (that would go with what the FO and coaches saw on and off the field). 

 

But what exactly is the Bills leverage to restructure his contract?  The Bills can propose a restructured contract they want to link his $3.65M salary to incentives (which it sounds like you're proposing), Lotulelei's agent can say "No".  Then the Bills can keep him, or cut him while Star pockets $2.5M additional cash.

 

Looking at the list of DTs available in FA, I wouldn't bet the rent that some other team doesn't offer him $3.5-$4M on a 1 year "prove it" deal.    Take a look at the guys who played in that range last season: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/defensive-tackle/

 

It's not saying that other things being equal, Lotulelei wouldn't want $6.75M instead of $6.5M or $2.5M.  Who knows, maybe a season off even showed him he'll miss playing football?  But if it comes at a price he doesn't want to pay (more time apart from his family, say), Good Luck to the Bills finding someone to replace him for the $1.5M (or even $4.1 as a post-June 1 cut) they'll save on the cap.

 

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

And he ain't making anything with an "$" on the front and "M" on the back in 2022 if it ain't with the Buffalo Bills.

 

Star is an 8 year vet.  His minimum salary would be $1.12M if signed by another team, so in fact, if any other team signs him, he WILL be making something with "$" on the front and "M" on the back.

 

PS anyone want to bet that Star's agents negotiated a contract without offset language?  That would mean he makes $2.5M from the Bills plus whatever a new team pays him 😈

[Einstein's Dog]

36 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

I think you are giving him a bit too much credit for his play on the field.  People did think that Star’s absence was an issue in 2020 and then realized they were wrong as the Bills defense still got gashed on the group multiple times this season.  Remember how his presence was going to allow Edmunds to be a monster this year against the run?  It didn’t happen.  In fact, the guy from Cover 1 is posting dozens and dozens of videos showing why the bad play of the DT’s (namely Star and Butler) were the reason why Edmunds was often ineffective against the run. 

 

There actually was not that big of a drop off between Star and Eli Ankou who the Bills just re-signed.  
As much as you are cheerleading for Star is not going to be in the roster this season.   I can guarantee you that the Bills will cut him as they look to upgrade at DT.  
 

 

Just because the Bills D got gashed by the run some this year, doesn't mean Star didn't improve it (again- remember when the Bills were the 29th ranked run D before he came here).  The run D improved year over year and Star is a big reason why.  It's still not great run D, the D in general is not geared for stopping the run.

 

It's getting about time to stop blaming DT's for Edmunds inadequacies against the run.  That's several years in a row now.

 

And actually, there is a big drop off from Star to Ankou.  If Star is not on the team, you better believe there is a need for a new DT.

 

Your guarantee that Star won't be here is worthless.  There is a good possibilty you're right though.  Star's personal absence is troubling (to me at least).  And if Star is a danger to the culture they are trying to instill/keep, it could be added incentive to move on.  

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that you can't incentivize people with money.  I haven't seen anything that seems interpretable that way.  Straw man.  But monetary incentivization in general has limits once past the 2nd tier of Maslow's Hierarchy.  That applies to a player who has career earnings of $47.9 Million dollars and has likely handled it well.  The monetary leverage lessons of hiring contract workers, probably don't apply here.

 

Your exact words were "If he is going to be kept I'd insist that he be there for the offseason and OTA's to prove that he cares about being the best player he can be again."  Now you could have said something like "If he is going to be kept, the Bills should propose restructuring his contract to heavily incentivize participation in OTAs".  But you didn't.  You said "insist"

 

The point is, the Bills can't insist.  That's specifically prohibited by the CBA.

 

 

In the case of Star Lotulelei, again, I'm not opposed to the  Bills moving on at this point (that would go with what the FO and coaches saw on and off the field). 

 

But what exactly is the Bills leverage to restructure his contract?  The Bills can propose a restructured contract they want to link his $3.65M salary to incentives (which it sounds like you're proposing), Lotulelei's agent can say "No".  Then the Bills can keep him, or cut him while Star pockets $2.5M additional cash.

 

Looking at the list of DTs available in FA, I wouldn't bet the rent that some other team doesn't offer him $3.5-$4M on a 1 year "prove it" deal.    Take a look at the guys who played in that range last season: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/defensive-tackle/

 

It's not saying that other things being equal, Lotulelei wouldn't want $6.75M instead of $6.5M or $2.5M.  Who knows, maybe a season off even showed him he'll miss playing football?  But if it comes at a price he doesn't want to pay (more time apart from his family, say), Good Luck to the Bills finding someone to replace him for the $1.5M (or even $4.1 as a post-June 1 cut) they'll save on the cap.

 

 

Star is an 8 year vet.  His minimum salary would be $1.12M if signed by another team, so in fact, if any other team signs him, he WILL be making something with "$" on the front and "M" on the back.

 

PS anyone want to bet that Star's agents negotiated a contract without offset language?  That would mean he makes $2.5M from the Bills plus whatever a new team pays him 😈

 

 

Why is it "likely" that Star Lotulelei has handled his money well?    That is an extremely random, unsubstantiated take.   You go on rants against far more "likely" opinions than that.

 

And just because you have made millions of dollars in your career doesn't mean that adding another 9%-10% more to your career earnings wouldn't be a huge incentive to you when you are about to retire in your mid-30's and aren't likely to find even remotely that kind of employment anywhere else.   

 

For as much time as you dedicate to this hobby..........you really should be smarter than to think that a guy like Snacks Harrison can be forced to be on practice squads in 2020 and a guy with Star Lotulelei's recent track record is going to find someone to give him $3.5M-$4M per season in 2022.    

 

And yes, the minimum salary of a vet like Star is over $1M.    But what are you forgetting?    That said vet has to be on the active roster in week 1 to guarantee that pay check.   I'm saying Star will not be on someone's active roster week 1 if it's not in Buffalo.     At this point he's a spare part that would be tying up a roster spot,  which is valuable when teams are poaching young talent around final cut-down day.  

 

His guarantees remaining in Buffalo have no bearing on that........he gets that whether he plays or not in 2022 so long as he doesn't voluntarily retire.......that was money he mentally banked 2 years ago.  

 

Could he be picked up on a week to week pay basis or be on a practice squad?   Sure.  But we both know that will likely not suit him when he's accustomed to so much more money and security.

 

At this point the only real question about Star Lotulelei is 'terrible free agent signing" or "worst Bills free agent signing ever".

[JohnNord]

 

44 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Why is it "likely" that Star Lotulelei has handled his money well?    That is an extremely random, unsubstantiated take.   You go on rants against far more "likely" opinions than that.

 

And just because you have made millions of dollars in your career doesn't mean that adding another 9%-10% more to your career earnings wouldn't be a huge incentive to you when you are about to retire in your mid-30's and aren't likely to find even remotely that kind of employment anywhere else.   

 

For as much time as you dedicate to this hobby..........you really should be smarter than to think that a guy like Snacks Harrison can be forced to be on practice squads in 2020 and a guy with Star Lotulelei's recent track record is going to find someone to give him $3.5M-$4M per season in 2022.    

 

And yes, the minimum salary of a vet like Star is over $1M.    But what are you forgetting?    That said vet has to be on the active roster in week 1 to guarantee that pay check.   I'm saying Star will not be on someone's active roster week 1 if it's not in Buffalo.     At this point he's a spare part that would be tying up a roster spot,  which is valuable when teams are poaching young talent around final cut-down day.  

 

His guarantees remaining in Buffalo have no bearing on that........he gets that whether he plays or not in 2022 so long as he doesn't voluntarily retire.......that was money he mentally banked 2 years ago.  

 

Could he be picked up on a week to week pay basis or be on a practice squad?   Sure.  But we both know that will likely not suit him when he's accustomed to so much more money and security.

 

At this point the only real question about Star Lotulelei is 'terrible free agent signing" or "worst Bills free agent signing ever".

 

I know the last part here is in jest, but the Star signing was really bad.  The Bills really overpaid for a DT and tried to say things like “well his impact doesn’t show up on the stat sheet.”  Sorry but good DT’s show up on the field and on the stat sheet.  
 

One thing overlooked with the Star contract was the opportunity cost.  He signed such a big contract that they really couldn’t walk away from him until year 4 of 5.  In that time the top heavy contract restricted many moves they could have made both on the DL and otherwise.  
 

Overall Star was not very good and I look forward to the Bills going in a different direction this upcoming season at 1TDT

Edited February 8, 2022 by JohnNord

[BADOLBILZ]

27 minutes ago, JohnNord said:

 

 

I know the last part here is in jest, but the Star signing was really bad.  The Bills really overpaid for a DT and tried to say things like “well his impact doesn’t show up on the stat sheet.”  Sorry but good DT’s show up on the field and on the stat sheet.  
 

One thing overlooked with the Star contract was the opportunity cost.  He signed such a big contract that they really couldn’t walk away from him until year 4 of 5.  In that time the top heavy contract restricted many moves they could have made both on the DL and otherwise.  
 

Overall Star was not very good and I look forward to the Bills going in a different direction this upcoming season at 1TDT

 

 

It was the worst and most unjustifiable free agent signing in Bills history, IMO.

 

Some point to Derrick Dockery but he played every snap and every game and was actually a solid, overpaid guard........his crime was getting paid more than Jason Peters, which ultimately lead to Peters being disgruntled and the Bills losing a HOF LT.

 

Star was a sub 50% of snaps early down DT who some thought might be stuck with a 1 year $4M deal............and Beane gave him $50M with $25M guaranteed over 5.    A flabbergasting over pay.

 

[billsbackto81]

On 2/7/2022 at 10:40 AM, Ethan in Portland said:

Average player. Terrible contract. 

I said that the day he signed with Buffalo. 

[BuffaloBobs]

21 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It was the worst and most unjustifiable free agent signing in Bills history, IMO.

 

Some point to Derrick Dockery but he played every snap and every game and was actually a solid, overpaid guard........his crime was getting paid more than Jason Peters, which ultimately lead to Peters being disgruntled and the Bills losing a HOF LT.

 

Star was a sub 50% of snaps early down DT who some thought might be stuck with a 1 year $4M deal............and Beane gave him $50M with $25M guaranteed over 5.    A flabbergasting over pay.

 

 

That's an awful take.

 

I think you can say in aggregate that he was overpaid, but after the 2017 season we had a gaping hole next to an aging Kyle Williams so there was absolutely a need unless you were high on Adolphus Washington or Cedric Thorton playing a big role. Add that to the available options in free agency for a team clearly rebuilding, its not like there were a ton of options.

 

I mean seriously, go back and look at who was available and let me know who we should have signed.

 

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

46 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

I said that the day he signed with Buffalo. 

So did I. I also said they should have just kept Dareus and the cap hit was about the same. But holy hell did Dareus turn into crap. At one point he was in the same discussion as Donald and then it all fell apart. 

Beane overpays in FA quite a bit. Worked out with John Brown for a while and with Beasley.  Morse has been ok. Star, Addison, Butler, and Murphy were all really bad returns on investment. 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

Article does state there's no bonuses due so could keep him around thru training camp.

 

If cut post June 1st, how's that change things?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Why is it "likely" that Star Lotulelei has handled his money well?    That is an extremely random, unsubstantiated take. 

 

Oh, I dunno.  Having a Tongan immigrant father who's a CPA and has a PhD from BYU might have something to do with it 🤷‍♂️

And married with a child at the point where he was drafted

And choosing to live in a house near his parents

As well as being a Mormon (a religion that drums family and fiscal responsibility into its Priests aka men)

(all the above matters of public record)

 

All totally random factors, lacking any correlation with a player being a fella who plans for financial future instead of throwing his money around.

Just an extreme guess.

 

Cheers!

[Victory Formation]

On 2/7/2022 at 2:36 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Then Beane disagrees with you. 

 

In his post game presser, he said that Star played well in his first 7 games, but that his play never returned to that standard when he came back from Covid. 

 

So "mixed bag" was the official Bills FO verdict.

 

I dunno what they're gonna do with Star.    If he returns to form and plays like he did in the beginning of the season, it's very doubtful that we could hire a FA who is as good of a scheme fit for the $1.5M (plus clearing next year's $2.6M) we save by cutting Star, and assuming we stick to McD's beloved rotation, we need at least 2.

Yes, sir. I suppose I disagree with Beane then? I thought Lotulelei was solid, if not more than solid. Probably his best season as a Bill. I think the biggest problem that our D faces is the soft cookie cutter scheme that we’re running. The fact that McD hasn’t fired Frazier yet to me is a huge lack of accountability on his part. Until this Bills team gets more aggressive and starts attacking, our players will continue to languish as a result of it.

[BADOLBILZ]

55 minutes ago, BuffaloBobs said:

 

That's an awful take.

 

I think you can say in aggregate that he was overpaid, but after the 2017 season we had a gaping hole next to an aging Kyle Williams so there was absolutely a need unless you were high on Adolphus Washington or Cedric Thorton playing a big role. Add that to the available options in free agency for a team clearly rebuilding, its not like there were a ton of options.

 

I mean seriously, go back and look at who was available and let me know who we should have signed.

 

 

 

 

Why don't YOU go back and DETAIL how it was that they needed to overpay Star Lotulelei?    The answer is you don't f*cking remember........if you ever even knew.

 

For what reason were they at a point in their re-tool that it was necessary to grossly overpay a 1 tech only who produced like a bad 0 tech?    Beane had so badly botched the OL and WR situations that there was no way that team was going to repeat their modest success of 2017 with Nate Peterman or a rookie Josh Allen...........regardless of whether they were middling or poor against the run.  They were a bad football team and a middling run defender getting paid $50M over 5 wasn't going to change that.

 

The Bills picked Harrison Phillips in that 2018 draft.   He was instantly much better than Lotulelei and a more natural 1 tech(a position that invites actual tackling).   It was a draft that was deep in big bodied run stuffers.   Tim Settle and Folorunso Fatukasi both went late if you were afraid to roll the dice with cheap free agents again.....as they had in 2017 when they dumped Dareus in the middle of a playoff race with no backup plan whatsoever.    Truth is they should have addressed the DT depth better in the 2017 offseason because their plan all along was to cut bait from Dareus regardless of how well he was playing.

 

While Lotulelei was a fairly easy "connect the dots" economy pairing because of his experience with McDermott........the contract was astonishingly bad.    He was an afterthought on the market.   The only interior run D specialist on a contract like that was Damon Harrison..........who was by far the best NT in football and not only much larger and incredibly more impactful at the LOS but also regularly put up 70+ tackle seasons.    This contract was the equivalent of giving Chis Kelsey a $100M deal.   Utter stupidity.

 

[Augie]

6 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

This. 

But the pragmatic question the Bills have to answer is: "Can we replace Star with a rookie or with a lower-tier FA DT who will sign for $1.5M (savings pre June 1) or $4.1M (savings post-June 1)?"

 

 

 

Let’s not forget, even the rookie has a cost beyond dollars. There is also the draft capital that might be well used in another direction. 

[PrimeTime101]

On 2/7/2022 at 11:09 AM, All_Pro_Bills said:

There are other players that have contracts with cap saving potential.

 

Mitch Morse 2022 cap hit 11.25M, dead cap hit 3.75M

Jordan Poyer  2022 cap hit 10.7M, dead cap hit 3.6M (keep)

Micah Hyde 2022 cap hit 10.2M, dead cap hit 5M (keep)

Daryl Williams 2022 cap hit 9.925M, dead cap hit 3.6M

Cole Beasley 2022 cap hit 7.6M, dead cap hit 1.5M

AJ Klien 2022 cap hit 5.76M, dead cap hit .4M

Jon Feliciano 2022 cap hit 4.97M, dead cap hit 1.5M

 

Of course clearing that cap space would leave room to sign other free agents but also leaves some gaps in the line up.  Or are there comparable players already on the roster for less money?  And do you trust the Bills front office can fill these holes in the line up via the draft?   

Ok i will take a bite at this.. 

Mitch Morse 2022 cap hit 11.25M, dead cap hit 3.75M>>>>>>>>>>We finally have our offensive line figured out... I cant see us moving from Mitch

Jordan Poyer  2022 cap hit 10.7M, dead cap hit 3.6M (keep)>>>>>>Poyer had a great year and expect him to stick around.

Micah Hyde 2022 cap hit 10.2M, dead cap hit 5M (keep)>>>>>>>>>Tough take on this but here it is.. Either his contract gets adjusted or he is gone.. we need speed.

Daryl Williams 2022 cap hit 9.925M, dead cap hit 3.6M>>>>>>>>>>I think we defiantly work over this contract

Cole Beasley 2022 cap hit 7.6M, dead cap hit 1.5M>>>>>>>>>>>>>There is lots of talk of him staying but to be honest... i am just not seeing it.

AJ Klien 2022 cap hit 5.76M, dead cap hit .4M>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Had a great game against KC but second tier guy needs to get paid less or gone. 

Jon Feliciano 2022 cap hit 4.97M, dead cap hit 1.5M>>>>>>>>>>>> decent depth here. 

[BADOLBILZ]

18 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh, I dunno.  Having a Tongan immigrant father who's a CPA and has a PhD from BYU might have something to do with it 🤷‍♂️

And married with a child at the point where he was drafted

And choosing to live in a house near his parents

As well as being a Mormon (a religion that drums family and fiscal responsibility into its Priests aka men)

(all the above matters of public record)

 

All totally random factors, lacking any correlation with a player being a fella who plans for financial future instead of throwing his money around.

Just an extreme guess.

 

Cheers!

 

 

You should have just stopped at his dad is a CPA so you'd hope his money is well taken care of instead of adding all the racist stereotyping weirdness.   

 

 

 

[Thurman#1]

18 hours ago, JohnNord said:

If you read between the lines of what’s been said about him publicly, I don’t get the impression that the Bills hold a favorable opinion of him on the field.  
 

McDermott did not seem pleased that Star didn’t get vaxxed given his history last season.  Also Beane said in his presser that after landing on the COVID list, Star was not the same player.  
 

These comments are hardly ringing endorsements.  The Bills will certainly move on from him this season and 1TDT will likely be a position to add, especially if they can’t resign Phillips.  

 

 

An awful lot of the time when people "read between the lines, the actual meaning is that they're letting their confirmation bias twist the data the way they wish it would be. 

 

Agreed they'd rather he got vaccinated. And agreed that they believe that Covid caused him problems when he came back, as it did with Dawkins. That didn't indicate they were unhappy with Dawkins' on-field performance when it was not Covid-affected, nor does it mean that here. Their discussion of him before Covid were absolutely ringing endorsements. Without question.

 

You can say that they will "certainly move on from him this season." It is built on a foundation of utter and pure guesswork based on confirmation bias and has the logical certainty of a gambling addict saying the next roll of the roulette wheel will "definitely" come up 17 because he can feel it.

 

It could go either way.

[John from Riverside]

Cant see us cutting him if there are major salary cap ramifications

 

More then likely will say they are stocked up at that spot and go another way in the draft

[Hapless Bills Fan]

57 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Yes, sir. I suppose I disagree with Beane then? I thought Lotulelei was solid, if not more than solid. Probably his best season as a Bill. I think the biggest problem that our D faces is the soft cookie cutter scheme that we’re running. The fact that McD hasn’t fired Frazier yet to me is a huge lack of accountability on his part. Until this Bills team gets more aggressive and starts attacking, our players will continue to languish as a result of it.

 

Yep, I believe you disagree with the Beanemeister.  Might also disagree with McDermott and Frazier, since Lotulelei saw his snap count fall when he returned from Covid.  53% before, 37% after, and that includes 53% his first game back, and a big drop afterwards presumably based on film.  Might have been his best season as a Bill but from some people's assessment that's a low bar.

 

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "cookie cutter scheme"?

 

I assume McDermott hasn't fired Frazier yet because he's very plugged into the defense, and during the time outs was aware of and bought into the defensive playcalls that were made.

 

I felt the Bills D was far more aggressive during the Week 5 game and don't understand why we didn't defend with the same aggression in the playoffs unless they felt that we simply physically couldn't, without Tre' White and our fastest DT Zimmer in the lineup, and with the "shine" out of Star (and Rousseau)

 

23 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

You can say that they will "certainly move on from him this season." It is built on a foundation of utter and pure guesswork based on confirmation bias and has the logical certainty of a gambling addict saying the next roll of the roulette wheel will "definitely" come up 17 because he can feel it.

 

Ohhhhh....funny you mention gambling to that particular poster

 

(Agree that "reading between the lines" = guesswork; could be right, could be wrong, nothing absolute or guaranteed about it).

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

First of all.......again,  I'm all for moving on.    But I would have cut bait after the 2019 season rather than guarantee his 2020 salary in exchange for saving a couple million on the cap.    Obviously my way would have been the right way.........re-structuring his contract in the manner they chose was a predictable failure.

 

But with about $4.2M in earnable but unguaranteed money in his 2022 contract...........there is CERTAINLY a way to change his contract or make new conditions........that's called a "re-structure".

 

And he ain't making anything with an "$" on the front and "M" on the back in 2022 if it ain't with the Buffalo Bills.

 

And this time, the team has all the leverage........as opposed to back in February of 2020 before he had opted out on his team,  suffered multiple injuries,  refused vax and then got ill with covid etc..

 

As for not being able to incentivize people with money............you obviously haven't done much employing or hiring of contract work.    Money contingent on performance makes people WANT to do things they wouldn't otherwise want to do.   It is human nature.   Thinking otherwise is very naive/ignorant.

 

 

 

 

That's fine that you're for moving on. That wouldn't have been the right way, it would have been your way. We'll know what would have worked out better after we see how his time here ends.

 

And yes, you can re-structure.

 

But no, this is where the nonsense comes in,  in no way does the team have the leverage right now. Neither side has much more leverage right now. But Star's agents know that the Bills don't want to cut him now with the cap consequences being wnat they are.

 

Also complete nonsense that he's not making pretty good money if the Bills cut him. He was kicking butt last year till he caught Covid, playing excellent football. He could very easily get picked up for good money. There's simply no way to know, but it's very possible. 

 

And wow, you're really on fire today with the macho but ridiculous stuff, dude. Wow, I'm so impressed by your sheer masculine power and smarts. You're saying incentives are supposed to make a guy want to do things? Wow, so brilliant. I guess that's why nobody ever turns down incentives.

 

Yeah, thing is you didn't say anything about incentives purpose being to incentivize. If you had, nobody would have disagreed. He's already got an incentive clause and yet we saw what happened last year. They can't change his contract no matter how tough some internet fan tries to sound. If he wants to come and earn the incentives, he will, and if he doesn't, he won't, and again he came in in terrific shape last year.

[iccrewman112]

On 2/7/2022 at 7:43 AM, Doc said:

It's $1.5M savings on the cap ($4.1 if post-June 1st) but more importantly almost $4.5M in savings by the Pegulas.  He's gone.

people forget cap savings is very different to an owner who saves ACTUAL DOLLARS. 
 

dollars that can go to facilities, employee compensation, budget for coaching staff. Or even just to their pockets. 

[JohnNord]

58 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

An awful lot of the time when people "read between the lines, the actual meaning is that they're letting their confirmation bias twist the data the way they wish it would be. 

 

Agreed they'd rather he got vaccinated. And agreed that they believe that Covid caused him problems when he came back, as it did with Dawkins. That didn't indicate they were unhappy with Dawkins' on-field performance when it was not Covid-affected, nor does it mean that here. Their discussion of him before Covid were absolutely ringing endorsements. Without question.

 

You can say that they will "certainly move on from him this season." It is built on a foundation of utter and pure guesswork based on confirmation bias and has the logical certainty of a gambling addict saying the next roll of the roulette wheel will "definitely" come up 17 because he can feel it.

 

It could go either way.

This entire message board is guesswork.  We’ll see if Star is on this roster next year.  Like I said, based on all the signs I’m thinking he won’t be.  I’ll be sure to let you know this Spring

[Hapless Bills Fan]

 

 

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

You should have just stopped at his dad is a CPA so you'd hope his money is well taken care of instead of adding all the racist stereotyping weirdness.  

 

"Mormon" and "immigrant" are races?  Huh, Who Knew? 

 

 

 

 

[Alphadawg7]

On 2/7/2022 at 8:13 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not going to debate Star's motivation to play football.  He's said flat out that he doesn't love football.  His motivation comes in portraits of dead presidents.  When that's the motivation, if you're payed whether you perform or not, well...

 

I think there is some misunderstanding quite a few people have about this article.  I think its a bit misconstrued in how its applied to Star and he gets a bad rap for something he didn't actually specifically say.

 

I know a lot people think the same thing:  "He's said flat out that he doesn't love football."  But Star didn't actually say he doesn't love football, and it gets mistakenly contributed to him all the time.  If you read the full article, and its a good article overall, its a comment that the journalist makes...an observation where the journalist actually says that to emphasize how Star's first love and motivation is his family.  Star plays to provide for his family and to help his teammates provide for their family, and I don't see anything wrong with that and I am sure thats why a lot of people go through the pain and abuse it takes to play a long time in the NFL.  

 

But the article goes on to talk about how great of a work ethic and drive that Star has, and how he has always put his teammates first and out there fighting for them and their ability to provide for their families.  Its full of examples by coaches and former teammates talking about him helping other teammates out, playing hurt so others could rest, etc etc.  

 

I don't think there is anything wrong with a player loving his family and teammates more than the game itself, but Star has this inaccurate label as if he just doesn't care at all about football.  And its always this article people cite, the same article praising his worth ethic and passion and love he has to for his teammates and their success too.  

 

So I think a journalists comment to emphasize that Star loves his family over everything else (which he should) gets taken out of context and gives Star a bad rap as if he doesn't love football and doesn't give it all, but thats really not what this article states and thats definitely not what his coaches or teammates believe either.    

 

 

On 2/7/2022 at 8:13 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

But how are you going to "insist that he be there for the offseason and OTAs"?

 

They're called voluntary workouts because they're contractually voluntary up until mandatory minicamp.

 

And even if somehow they did persuade/insist...that doesn't guarantee full-go effort throughout the season.  Star did show up in shape and ready to go.  Beane pointed to effective play from Star week 2-8, and not as effective play week 13, 15, 17 and 18 plus playoffs.  Beane attributed this to lingering effects of Star's bout with covid 19 (did we ever get an explanation of the mysterious "personal reasons" week?) even on a drastically lowered snap count.

 

Yeah, I think its plausible that COVID impacted him that way, I mean I had it over Xmas and I still feel some of the effects when I am doing something physical like basketball or even a light workout.  

 

On 2/7/2022 at 8:13 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Obviously McDermott and Frazier have (in the past anyway) disagreed with your long-time take on Lotulelei's on-field contributions, it's not my intent to argue that here. 

 

My point is that the coaches and Beane have to decide whether Lotulelei's value to them  exceeds the roster space he takes up and the savings from cutting him, based on what they perceive as his on-field and off-field work ethic and committment, not based on a participation in OTAs they can't insist on or enforce, and which wouldn't necessarily foreshadow an adequate season-long effort.

 

I will say that McDermott has repeatedly referenced "leadership in the room" when discussing some of his under-performing veterans, but need to confront the contradiction implicit in having "leaders" like Hughes who don't actually show their butts up for OTAs

 

 

Yeah, I agree its up to McD and Beane to determine what his value is to the team as both a player and locker room guy and weigh that against cost to keep him or cut him.  I think its plausible they could look to replace Star this year, but the healthy Star was still a pretty good player and important in how our defense is played.  So this will be an interesting story to watch this offseason IMHO.

 

Personally, if I had to guess, I would lean towards him probably being back this year since the cap savings are not that great.  But hard to say for sure right now, especially before we see what happens with some of our FA's and what kind of cap space Beane creates elsewhere.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

45 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

ink there is some misunderstanding quite a few people have about this article.  I think its a bit misconstrued in how its applied to Star and he gets a bad rap for something he didn't actually specifically say.

 

I know a lot people think the same thing:  "He's said flat out that he doesn't love football."  But Star didn't actually say he doesn't love football, and it gets mistakenly contributed to him all the time.  If you read the full article, and its a good article overall, its a comment that the journalist makes...an observation where the journalist actually says that to emphasize how Star's first love and motivation is his family.  Star plays to provide for his family and to help his teammates provide for their family, and I don't see anything wrong with that and I am sure thats why a lot of people go through the pain and abuse it takes to play a long time in the NFL.  

 

I appreciate your different POV .....but ultimately, when you say Star plays to provide for his family, aren't you saying that Star plays for money?  And isn't that consistent with saying "Star doesn't love football...he plays for portraits of dead presidents" (not, I acknowledge your point, because of $$ per se but as a means to provide for his family). 

 

The point I am getting at is, when McDermott talks about how you have to have a fire in your belly every week to be the best - I don't think Star has that.   I think he gives honest effort, but I don't think he's tirelessly working to be better and more impactful as a player every game.  I should note, I don't intend to single out and slam Star here, because I think in this modern football era it's true of a lot of players.  They love football as a means to gain generational wealth, and once they get paid or get to a point where their play doesn't impact their pay very much...they relax and lose some edge.  And I think Star has continued to put in the work better than many of them (Shaq Lawson and Jordan Phillips, I'm looking at You).

 

I believe I understand why McDermott brought him in - he was trying to effect rapid cultural change in the DL room, and he had confidence that Star would "buy in" and put in the example of steady grind.  But I think we need to move past that.

 

 

45 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yeah, I think its plausible that COVID impacted him that way, I mean I had it over Xmas and I still feel some of the effects when I am doing something physical like basketball or even a light workout.  

 

I agree.  It's "hit and miss" where it takes some people a longer time to shed all the effects. 

 

45 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Yeah, I agree its up to McD and Beane to determine what his value is to the team as both a player and locker room guy and weigh that against cost to keep him or cut him.  I think its plausible they could look to replace Star this year, but the healthy Star was still a pretty good player and important in how our defense is played.  So this will be an interesting story to watch this offseason IMHO.

 

Personally, if I had to guess, I would lean towards him probably being back this year since the cap savings are not that great.  But hard to say for sure right now, especially before we see what happens with some of our FA's and what kind of cap space Beane creates elsewhere.  

 

That would be my guess, though I'm not opposed to the Bills trying to move on, either.  I just badly want to see attention to our offensive line and offensive skill players, with two of our WR over 33 y.o., and I know our cap space is limited with lots of FA on the DL.   I suppose I'm afraid that with only Oliver and Star and 2 PS DTs under contract, if we cut Star it will mean throwing a lot more of our FA $$ and draft resources into DL 😒

 

But none of us really know what kind of effort Star is putting in behind the scenes and where his head and heart are.  It's up to McDermott and Beane to figure that out.

[Southern_Bills]

On 2/7/2022 at 9:45 AM, Success said:

I hope they keep Star.  When he plays, he's a force, imo.  We improved when he was in there.

 

Replacing him, Addison and Hughes would be a tall task.

 

 

Addison and Hughes yes. Star plays lazy, he doesn't really care, I'd rather take a chance on a young guy that goes undrafted with good height/weight/speed for the position. 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

This entire message board is guesswork.  We’ll see if Star is on this roster next year.  Like I said, based on all the signs I’m thinking he won’t be.  I’ll be sure to let you know this Spring

 

These are perfectly reasonable statements.  We'll see...based on the signs you're thinking he won't be.

 

But you started out far more definitive: "Star is not going to be in the roster this season.   I can guarantee you that the Bills will cut him as they look to upgrade at DT."
 

and

"This is a done deal.  Star is already gone.  There is zero chance….zero chance…he’s on the roster in 2022"

 

"Zero chance...done deal...I can guarantee you" is not quite the same as "based on the signs, I think..."

[Alphadawg7]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I appreciate your different POV .....but ultimately, when you say Star plays to provide for his family, aren't you saying that Star plays for money?  And isn't that consistent with saying "Star doesn't love football...he plays for portraits of dead presidents" (not, I acknowledge your point, because of $$ per se but as a means to provide for his family). 

 

I don't personally take it that way.  I don't think there is a bigger motivation in life than your family, I don't think it means said player is just a money guy and once he gets paid he doesn't put in the same effort.  The way that whole article is written, it comes across to me that he is out there fighting every day to do his best, help his teammates do their best, so they can do the most for their families.  I mean it speaks of Star being hurt, but still went out and practiced so the other guys weren't forced to take all his reps and can get some rest.  He seems to go all out for his team and teammates.  And any coach or teammate that ever speaks about him always says the same.  

 

I totally agree with you its different for every player, like the guys you named.  I just don't think it rings true specifically with Star and that its a journalists quote that was really just trying to emphasize how important family is to Star that has created this sort of inaccurate belief about Star's motivation.  

 

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That would be my guess, though I'm not opposed to the Bills trying to move on, either.  I just badly want to see attention to our offensive line and offensive skill players, with two of our WR over 33 y.o., and I know our cap space is limited with lots of FA on the DL. 

 

But none of us really know what kind of effort Star is putting in behind the scenes and where his head and heart are.  It's up to McDermott and Beane to figure that out.

 

Yeah, I am also not opposed to Bills trying to move on if they have a better plan in how to replace him that makes sense.  My guess, is he is likely back (given the cap savings isn't that much) and they look for a young guy in the draft as someone to groom to replace him eventually.  If the Star that was playing before COVID hit him is the guy they get back this camp, then our defense will be better off for it.  But he also isn't getting any younger, so its hard to say what kind of a player will be this camp.  

[JohnNord]

25 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

These are perfectly reasonable statements.  We'll see...based on the signs you're thinking he won't be.

 

But you started out far more definitive: "Star is not going to be in the roster this season.   I can guarantee you that the Bills will cut him as they look to upgrade at DT."
 

and

"This is a done deal.  Star is already gone.  There is zero chance….zero chance…he’s on the roster in 2022"

 

"Zero chance...done deal...I can guarantee you" is not quite the same as "based on the signs, I think..."

You are correct.  It was hyperbole.  If you can’t tell though, I feel very strongly he won’t be on the team 

[BuffaloRebound]

McBeane know more than all of us why Star missed the games he did.  This is one of those situations where you gotta trust the guys in charge.  His contract is a bit of an albatross, but he’s still useful when available.  Doubt you can replace him for $1.5m you’d save cutting him or even $4m if he was a post June 1 cut.  

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

 

 

"Mormon" and "immigrant" are races?  Huh, Who Knew? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You really need to learn how to use the edit feature if you are going to post something like this while your current post is still up.

 

You painted a picture using race(Tongan),  citizenship status(son of immigrant) and religion(Mormon) to explain why you knew that Star Lotulelei had wisely handled his money.

 

None of those 3 aspects of he or his family's identity assures any kind of inherent financial acuity.  

 

 

[Dkollidas]

On 2/8/2022 at 12:04 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don’t think that’s correct.  He has $2.5M guaranteed salary and a $2.6M signing bonus this year.  If he’s cut post June 1, I think they still  pay that this season.  So the dead cap would be $5.1M.   They just get to count next year’s signing bonus…next year.

Yes you’re right, it just changed on Spotrac and over the cap the past week I believe. 

[DrPJax]

On 2/7/2022 at 10:22 AM, ColoradoBills said:

I said it before, his heart is not in the game and he should retire.

I said the same thing. Minor things before Covid seemed to be affecting his playing time.  In work comp injuries it is well known the longer a patient stays away from work it becomes all more likely they won’t ever return. He was not practicing much before Covid. He was not the same after. It is a real , documented psychological phenomena that it is another obstacle to overcome.  It says something  about his state of mind and desire to opt out that first year because of Covid , being a minority of extreme competitors who chose to go forth. That’s not a character attack , merely a reflection of personality traits and one’s desire.  He was not committed for the grind and I think it proved itself after the early comeback novelty wore off. I think he is around now for the money but that’s not what’s best for the team. It’s time for a business decision and let him go.
 

 I believe it will come as a huge relief for him as some guys ego will make them hold on when their true enjoyment has left.  He plays a minor role at best now and this D needs more if they are going to compete with a formidable schedule next year.  He will hold on if left to his own decision, and it’s appropriate to lift that burden for him. It’s the right decision to move on and it’s time to cut emotional ties. Leaders also have to actually contribute and he did that in one or two games at most. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

You painted a picture using race(Tongan)

 

Badol, give it up.  You're pursuing sunk costs here.

 

Tonga is a nation.  Tongan is a nationality and a cultural identity - like "French" or "Swiss" or "Swedish".  Most of the citizens of Tonga are Polynesian or have Polynesian ancestry.  I didn't make that point in my previous post because I wanted to see if "Tonga = race therefore attributing characteristics to Tongan = racist" were a dead horse you were gonna to try to ride.  You never disappoint.

 

Let's recap.  This exchange started out with you asserting that the Bills should "insist" that Star participate in off-season workouts and that they could renegotiate his contract with him to push more of his non-guaranteed salary into incentives.  You use incentivizing contract workers as an example to instruct us in how this works.  Myself and others point out that the Bills can not "insist" on OTA participation - that's specifically prohibited by the CBA.   This point is inarguable.

 

We also point out that the Bills have little to no leverage to force Star to renegotiate his contract: when a man has earned $47M dollars, he's likely reached a point where extended time with family may outweigh monetary incentives - a viewpoint supported by Star's non-participation in OTAs last year.  Star also has $2.5M dollars guaranteed and a lot of his cap hit to the Bills is already in his bank account as signing bonus. 

 

Your counter argument is that we have no proof Star has been careful with his money and that no one else in the league will pay him $3.6-$4M so he'll get more from the Bills. These points are ones where there can legitimately be differences of opinions - young football players are notoriously bad at money management vs. Star having family expertise at hand and being a member of several cultural and religious groups with values that are well-established to trend towards honoring family and towards fiscal responsibility; you have a well-known and oft-reiterated negative opinion of Star's on-field performance, which may or may not be shared by GMs around the league at this time.  In which case  Star can take his $2.5M and go home.

 

It's OK, people can disagree on these points.  People can muster legitimate arguments for and against them.

 

But because your arguments aren't being accepted as incontrovertible and You Can Never Be Wrong, you make it a point of attacking intelligence: "For as much time as you dedicate to this hobby..........you really should be smarter"

Then you make it a point of attacking character: "racist stereotyping weirdness" about a cultural and religious identity well-established to highly value family and fiscal responsibility, borne out by the fact that Star actually lives near his parents.

 

You never disappoint.

 

I think I've said what I need to here.  Over and out.  You get a free shot - and I'm quite certain you'll take it.  You can't help yourself, like a cat triggered into chasing a laser pointer.

 

 

 

 

[BarleyNY]

9 hours ago, Dkollidas said:

Yes you’re right, it just changed on Spotrac and over the cap the past week I believe. 

A couple of seasons ago some of us dug into the contract info on Star and found that it was incorrect on both sites (albeit differently).  I can’t remember who here discovered it, but kudos to them.  We were able to figure out what it really was at the time.  Both sites have recently fixed it.  The mistakes were probably due to the reworked deal.

[Einstein's Dog]

12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

I don't personally take it that way.  I don't think there is a bigger motivation in life than your family, I don't think it means said player is just a money guy and once he gets paid he doesn't put in the same effort.  The way that whole article is written, it comes across to me that he is out there fighting every day to do his best, help his teammates do their best, so they can do the most for their families. 

 

I totally agree with you its different for every player, like the guys you named.  I just don't think it rings true specifically with Star and that its a journalists quote that was really just trying to emphasize how important family is to Star that has created this sort of inaccurate belief about Star's motivation.  

 

Yeah, I am also not opposed to Bills trying to move on if they have a better plan in how to replace him that makes sense.  My guess, is he is likely back (given the cap savings isn't that much) and they look for a young guy in the draft as someone to groom to replace him eventually.  If the Star that was playing before COVID hit him is the guy they get back this camp, then our defense will be better off for it.  But he also isn't getting any younger, so its hard to say what kind of a player will be this camp.  

Alpha - I had a similar feel reading that article, people giving Star a bum rap from the writers line of Star doesn't love football.  I got the feeling from the article that writer was trying to impart that Star is more motivated than most because Star values the salaries and realizes this is generational type money.  Star was moving people for a living for a year.

 

I came away from the article thinking Star values money.  And people who think that because Star already has been paid a lot of money he won't care about not getting another $2.6M are wrong.  It was a worry last year but we all saw Star come back in phenomenal shape.  He cares.  There have been some unusual happenings with Star but there is a possible reasonable, unique, explanation for them (real Covid concerns based on preexisting conditions).  I hope that is the case and that Star comes back and is his early 2021 self - the team is better for it.