The Great Squib Kickoff Controversy - Have reviewed the film like it was Zapruder

[Billsfan1972]

I have posted in other threads so apologies.  And yes still pissed at all the mistakes in the last 13 seconds.

 

I can accept (though inexcusable) that there was miscommunication (and that is an epic fail), but not that Bass was not trying to kick it out of the endzone.

 

Yes in another thread....  I had to go back and watch every kick......  

 

Bass was kicking into the endzone.  His approach was 7-8 yards.....

 

The 29-26 kick, same approach 7-8 yards, After the 75 yard TD, he actually did a 5-6 yard approach and in the end zone.   After HT, 5-6 yards and through the endzone.....  

 

Just before HT and the TD, 7 yard approach and touchback.  At 7-0, again 7 yards and he did not catch it clean and would have bounced in the endzone but Pringle fielded the line drive and returned it to the 25.  

 

No chance he was told to kick it short and blew it!!!!!! 

 

A good pop up or squib kick goes to the 5-10 yard line.  Squibs are often muffed & pop up kicks usually means defense is downfield to defend.

 

You want to know how many short kicks (to the 5-15 yard line) were returned for TD's in 2021 in the NFL (I counted 1,200 kick returns)????

 

0!!!!!!! 

 

Kicks returned were all line drives to the goal line and returned 98-102 yards.

 

Bass was so proficient that the Bills were third in Kickoff defense & the longest return was 31 yards.  That would have eaten 7 seconds minimum.  

 

When he did those short kicks he approached them as FGs, has a 60+ yard leg, and would take a 3 or less step drop.  A 60 yard kick goes to the 5 yard line.  

 

So let's say Bass does kick it to the 5, best return is to the 36 & 7 seconds off the clock.  That gives KC one play to get to the 32 (which is where they ended up) or another 32 yards in 6 seconds.

 

If an average return they are at the 22-25 yard line and 7-8 seconds left.

 

The math is simple, you kick it to the 5 or squib it and eat clock.

 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[DapperCam]

Special teams coach blew the call I bet and McDermott is pissed.

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, DapperCam said:

Special teams coach blew the call I bet and McDermott is pissed.

That's McD's responsibility to tell them to kick it short.  ST coach is to ensure that they play it right and tackle.

 

If I'm wrong as to their responsibility let me know.

[Steptide]

I'd like to see the all 22 and see bass's reaction when it went into the endzone. That might tell us something. Either way though, I don't think it really matters. Starting at the 25 yard line with 13 seconds gives little to no chance of getting in fg range. This was an epic fail for the defense. 

[mannc]

10 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I have posted in other threads so apologies.  And yes still pissed at all the mistakes in the last 13 seconds.

 

I can accept (though inexcusable) that there was miscommunication (and that is an epic fail), but not that Bass was not trying to kick it out of the endzone.

 

Yes in another thread....  I had to go back and watch every kick......  

 

Bass was kicking into the endzone.  His approach was 7-8 yards.....

 

The 29-26 kick, same approach 7-8 yards, After the 75 yard TD, he actually did a 5-6 yard approach and in the end zone.   After HT, 5-6 yards and through the endzone.....  

 

Just before HT and the TD, 7 yard approach and touchback.  At 7-0, again 7 yards and he did not catch it clean and would have bounced in the endzone but Pringle fielded the line drive and returned it to the 25.  

 

No chance he was told to kick it short and blew it!!!!!! 

 

A good pop up or squib kick goes to the 5-10 yard line.  Squibs are often muffed & pop up kicks usually means defense is downfield to defend.

 

You want to know how many short kicks (to the 5-15 yard line) were returned for TD's in 2021 in the NFL (I counted 1,200 kick returns)????

 

0!!!!!!! 

 

Kicks returned were all line drives to the goal line and returned 98-102 yards.

 

Bass was so proficient that the Bills were third in Kickoff defense & the longest return was 31 yards.  That would have eaten 7 seconds minimum.  

 

When he did those short kicks he approached them as FGs, has a 60+ yard leg, and would take a 3 or less step drop.  A 60 yard kick goes to the 5 yard line.  

 

So let's say Bass does kick it to the 5, best return is to the 36 & 7 seconds off the clock.  That gives KC one play to get to the 32 (which is where they ended up) or another 32 yards in 6 seconds.

 

If an average return they are at the 22-25 yard line and 7-8 seconds left.

 

The math is simple.

 

 

Or they fair catch it inside the 10 and have to go 50 yards in 10 seconds...

[Captain_Quint]

3 minutes ago, DapperCam said:

Special teams coach blew the call I bet and McDermott is pissed.

If this is the case, he needs to come out and say it at some point. The questions will continue and he can't just keep dodging it. 

 

Fire the guy, come out and say he screwed up, whatever McD needs to do. In the end, Special teams had some glaring errors this season as well as some very strong play so it's tough to just fire the coordinator.

 

Bass and our punt/KO coverage were top notch. 

 

Haack was just average, and we all know about the punt/kickoff return issues. 

[Billsfan1972]

8 minutes ago, Steptide said:

I'd like to see the all 22 and see bass's reaction when it went into the endzone. That might tell us something. Either way though, I don't think it really matters. Starting at the 25 yard line with 13 seconds gives little to no chance of getting in fg range. This was an epic fail for the defense. 

All season long when Bass wanted it returned he did a shorter approach.  He was easily sailing it in the endzone all game.  7-8 yard full steam run and a booming kick.  He has a 60 yard+ leg for FGs we know, so again why if he is only trying to kick it 60 yards is he doing a full wind-up.

 

Sorry need to get this out of my system......😜

Edited January 25, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[MJS]

10 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

That's McD's responsibility to tell them to kick it short.  ST coach is to ensure that they play it right and tackle.

 

If I'm wrong as to their responsibility let me know.

The head coach tells the coordinator. The coordinator gets the message to the players.

[st pete gogolak]

I hope someone more technologically savvy then myself can put together a video of Bass' "short" 2021 kickoffs.  Just from memory, I believe Bills were extremely successful doing this strategy this year.  Again, from memory, I can't recall many returns past the 20.   I'd also be curious where the kickoffs  were caught assuming KC would fair catch the pop up kick.  Even starting at the 20 instead of the 25 would have helped.

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, st pete gogolak said:

I hope someone more technologically savvy then myself can put together a video of Bass' "short" 2021 kickoffs.  Just from memory, I believe Bills were extremely successful doing this strategy this year.  Again, from memory, I can't recall many returns past the 20.   I'd also be curious where the kickoffs  were caught assuming KC would fair catch the pop up kick.  Even starting at the 20 instead of the 25 would have helped.

 

Here's the Kickoff Defence.

 

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/teamstat.html?group=D&cat=KR&yr=2021&lg=NFL

[SoCal Deek]

I’d expect this thread in any message board other than the Buffalo Bills. The kickoff was NOT the big mistake! Don’t ANY of you remember the Music City Miracle? The mistake was not holding the receivers when KC got the ball at the 25 yard line.

End thread! 

[Da webster guy]

This is interesting.  We know that the right call was a high short kick, we practice covering it and use this now and then.  It will bring the clock to 8/9 seconds, maybe less.  They aren't going to fair catch a kick that lands at the 5-10 yard line and if they do, we just gained 15-20 yards on them which is huge in that scenario.

 

If McD had called for it, which he obviously should have, then we know from experience that Bass lines up differently in the pre-kick steps as the OP said.  At this point the special teams coach and McD AND Bass should all be on the same page, and if there is any issue whatsoever it would have been a timeout from our sideline as they watched Bass take his 7-8 yard walk back.  We have people on the sideline with headsets, people upstairs in the booth with headsets, everyone in the world is watching Bass line up his steps, there is no way we aren't going to notice he is lining up to kick out of the end zone, which he did.

 

Bass did exactly as he was told.  

 

Just brutal game coaching and mishandling the entire sequence from the kick mistake to the way they had our safeties playing BEHIND the imaginary red field goal line, as if we were so scared of them getting a touchdown we had our best two Dbacks 40 yards deep.  Kelce running wide open with no help for Levi, having Addison and Oliver NOT rush Mahomes and just stand there as spies (ridiculous).  Cost us the season and maybe a title.

 

I hope McD stands up soon and explains everything.  We can handle honest mistakes, but don't go Tom Donahoe "we'll give the fans as much info as WE think they need"  I love the guy as a head coach, he's learning slowly about game coaching, getting better but definitely not there yet.  It's a hard thing to do even for the veteran coaches, we understand stuff like this happens, just don't lie about it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ControllerOfPlanetX]

So, are we to believe that no player, Bass nor any of the kick-off team, nor any of the captains didn’t at least ask the special teams Coach or McDermott...”hey, are you sure you don’t want to squib it?”....when every  Bills fans watching the game is saying we are going to squib it?

[theRalph]

51 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Either way though, I don't think it really matters. Starting at the 25 yard line with 13 seconds gives little to no chance of getting in fg range.

Less than "little or no" chance if you take at least a cpl seconds off the clock. OF COURSE IT MATTERS

[Steptide]

Just now, theRalph said:

Less than "little or no" chance if you take at least a cpl seconds off the clock. OF COURSE IT MATTERS

Yes it matters. But let's say they squib it, kc grabs the ball and runs to the 40 with 9 seconds left, then Mahomes throws to kelce and they get in fg range. The end result is the same. My point was starting at the 25 with 13 seconds is an almost near impossible task to get down field. It was and epic fail on the defense to allow it to happen. 

[Billsfan1972]

6 minutes ago, Steptide said:

Yes it matters. But let's say they squib it, kc grabs the ball and runs to the 40 with 9 seconds left, then Mahomes throws to kelce and they get in fg range. The end result is the same. My point was starting at the 25 with 13 seconds is an almost near impossible task to get down field. It was and epic fail on the defense to allow it to happen. 

If they returned it to the 40 yep an epic fail, but I showed empirical evidence that the Bills didn't allow it all year.

[SoCal Deek]

7 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

If they returned it to the 40 yep an epic fail, but I showed empirical evidence that the Bills didn't allow it all year.

MUSIC CITY MIRACLE 

 

Enough said.

[BuffaloMatt]

I love you all . .. .  and like you I have dissected and dissected and reran the last two plays over and over and my head is going to explode with the thoughts of what if or what could have been. Nothing is going to change the result and that is what really sucks. Big bite of a sh#t sandwich with the musty taste lingering until at least the draft or a KC loss in the next two weeks.  

Edited January 25, 2022 by BuffaloMatt

[Billsfan1972]

 Just needed to review in detail. It's my way.

 

I'm not over it, but yup, this obsessing is therapeutic for me.😜

[WhoTom]

Does anyone remember how well the squib kick worked 22 years ago? SoCalDeek remembers.

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by WhoTom

[Old Coot]

Squib kick is not a bad idea but there are risks: a good runback -- maybe one of those rugby-style plays with lateral passes.

 

A well-coached returner will immediately down the ball so maybe 1-2 secs runs off the clock.

 

By kicking deep Bills were showing faith in their D.

[buffalostu2]

I think it is fair to point out that under the circumstances the Chiefs would have been holding like crazy on a kickoff return and the crew that was refereeing throws the least amount of flags in the league.   While I do not think this makes a squib or a pooch wrong, there is considerably more risk because of the refs.  I don't know what the stats are on how many flags they throw on kickoffs but I bet our SP coach does.  No idea whether that was a factor but it is a variable in the decision. 

 

As has been said a billion times already, 13, 10, 7 whatever seconds, just play normal defense and we win.   

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, ControllerOfPlanetX said:

So, are we to believe that no player, Bass nor any of the kick-off team, nor any of the captains didn’t at least ask the special teams Coach or McDermott...”hey, are you sure you don’t want to squib it?”....when every  Bills fans watching the game is saying we are going to squib it?

 

 

I've been saying this since the McD presser 

 

 

When does Bass get interviewed?  

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’d expect this thread in any message board other than the Buffalo Bills. The kickoff was NOT the big mistake! Don’t ANY of you remember the Music City Miracle? The mistake was not holding the receivers when KC got the ball at the 25 yard line.

End thread! 

Holding or doubling the wrs is irrelevant if the kick was performed properly. The would've had less than 8-9 seconds to go 50 yards. Did you not read the OP. There have been 0 tds returned out of 1200 when the ball is popped up. Yea the defense was embarrassing but it should never have come down to 2 plays. Maybe 1 long hail mary to get into fg range. Hill wasn't even back there on the return. 

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Holding or doubling the wrs is irrelevant if the kick was performed properly. The would've had less than 8-9 seconds to go 50 yards. Did you not read the OP. There have been 0 tds returned out of 1200 when the ball is popped up. Yea the defense was embarrassing but it should never have come down to 2 plays. Maybe 1 long hail mary to get into fg range. Hill wasn't even back there on the return. 

MUSIC CITY MIRACLE

[LABILLBACKER]

Just now, Big Blitz said:

 

 

I've been saying this since the McD presser 

 

 

When does Bass get interviewed?  

Bass, Farwell and Clappy need to tell the truth and stop sweeping this under the rug. If I'm a journalist I never stop asking. 

[Big Blitz]

I really need to hear Bass say he kicked it to far.  

 

That will make this a bit easier to take

 

13 seconds and 3 time outs for Mahomes isn't insanely impossible -

 

First play get to your 40-45 quick.  Have 7 seconds left.

 

Next pass has to get to the other teams 40 minimum.  That's 5 seconds max and enough for a FG with 1-2 seconds left.  

 

 

 

That kick had to get returned.  

[NewEra]

Sorry, I’m sure this was already said but I’m pressed for time and can’t read through it all rn.  
 

Who was back there returning the kick?

[LABILLBACKER]

Just now, SoCal Deek said:

MUSIC CITY MIRACLE

Yea, so what. These circumstances were worlds different than what Bruce DeHaven failed to do. And Tennessee had to have a td on that kickoff. Andy had 3 timeouts and 13 seconds.  We played right into his hands. And hopefully this thread continues if for no other reason than annoy you.

[FieldGeneral]

I'm more upset that nobody bumped Kelce at the line. With the amount of time they had, they could have easily bumped him and only had 3 linemen up front. Instead of 3 deep, we should have run a 3-6-2 scheme. Only Hill was beating you deep and for that play to develop, Mahomes needed time. Even with 2 timeouts, they didn't have enough time for 2 deep throws. Utter catastrophic play calling to end this game. We were setup for a very high odds to win a Super Bowl. 

[Big Blitz]

25 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Sorry, I’m sure this was already said but I’m pressed for time and can’t read through it all rn.  
 

Who was back there returning the kick?

 

 

13 and 45 were the deep men.  

 

Hill was not on the field. 

 

Bass kicked it too far - I just watched it again.  I'm pretty convinced he f...ed up

 

 

16:00 mark

 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Big Blitz

[billsfan714]

Bass took his normal approach and kicked it 7 yards deep, it wasn't execution, it was a decision.   Lets stop trying to pretend it was otherwise.

[Big Blitz]

4 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

Bass took his normal approach and kicked it 7 yards deep, it wasn't execution, it was a decision.   Lets stop trying to pretend it was otherwise.

 

 

He's going to get asked at some point.   

 

Right?  

 

If he says that was the play then McD just b.s.'d and lied today and threw the ST coaches and Bass under the bus in doing so.  

 

 

I can't believe he'd do that 

[Billsfan1972]

19 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Sorry, I’m sure this was already said but I’m pressed for time and can’t read through it all rn.  
 

Who was back there returning the kick?

Pringle

13 minutes ago, billsfan714 said:

Bass took his normal approach and kicked it 7 yards deep, it wasn't execution, it was a decision.   Lets stop trying to pretend it was otherwise.

How many times do I have to say the same.  Bass kicks 60 yard fgs with a 3 yd approach.

 

He did it 5 times already in the game.  He knows his leg.

 

Thanks!!!!!

Edited January 25, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Seventeen]

20 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

13 and 15 were the deep men

 

Hill was not on the field. 

 

Bass kicked it too far - I just watched it again.  I'm pretty convinced he f...ed up

 

 

16:00 mark

 

 

 

Pringle was the deep man - 15 is Mahomes.

 

The higher shorter kick to the 5-15 was probably the best play but who knows what Bass was told and by whom. 

Edited January 25, 2022 by Roy Hobbs

[Niagara Dude]

2 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I have posted in other threads so apologies.  And yes still pissed at all the mistakes in the last 13 seconds.

 

I can accept (though inexcusable) that there was miscommunication (and that is an epic fail), but not that Bass was not trying to kick it out of the endzone.

 

Yes in another thread....  I had to go back and watch every kick......  

 

Bass was kicking into the endzone.  His approach was 7-8 yards.....

 

The 29-26 kick, same approach 7-8 yards, After the 75 yard TD, he actually did a 5-6 yard approach and in the end zone.   After HT, 5-6 yards and through the endzone.....  

 

Just before HT and the TD, 7 yard approach and touchback.  At 7-0, again 7 yards and he did not catch it clean and would have bounced in the endzone but Pringle fielded the line drive and returned it to the 25.  

 

No chance he was told to kick it short and blew it!!!!!! 

 

A good pop up or squib kick goes to the 5-10 yard line.  Squibs are often muffed & pop up kicks usually means defense is downfield to defend.

 

You want to know how many short kicks (to the 5-15 yard line) were returned for TD's in 2021 in the NFL (I counted 1,200 kick returns)????

 

0!!!!!!! 

 

Kicks returned were all line drives to the goal line and returned 98-102 yards.

 

Bass was so proficient that the Bills were third in Kickoff defense & the longest return was 31 yards.  That would have eaten 7 seconds minimum.  

 

When he did those short kicks he approached them as FGs, has a 60+ yard leg, and would take a 3 or less step drop.  A 60 yard kick goes to the 5 yard line.  

 

So let's say Bass does kick it to the 5, best return is to the 36 & 7 seconds off the clock.  That gives KC one play to get to the 32 (which is where they ended up) or another 32 yards in 6 seconds.

 

If an average return they are at the 22-25 yard line and 7-8 seconds left.

 

The math is simple, you kick it to the 5 or squib it and eat clock.

 

 

I mentioned this,  during the season he was doing those pop up kicks to around the 5 yard line,  when he does this he uses a 2 -3 yard approach.  I could believe the communication between ST'S coach and Sean was bad but I don't believe Bass just ignored Sean instructions to do pop up or squid kick.

 

 

Either way,  we can call it the triple does of dumb.  First mistake was kick-off and then they followed that up with two consecutive plays where Chief receivers got free releases and wide open field to work with.  

 

Sean and Frazier should feel terrible because they ruined the hopes & dreams of many Bills fans and now fans from other cities have another thing to laugh at. 

[NewEra]

20 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

13 and 15 were the deep men

 

Hill was not on the field. 

 

Bass kicked it too far - I just watched it again.  I'm pretty convinced he f...ed up

 

 

16:00 mark

 

 

Thanks so much thumbs up

[Big Blitz]

6 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Pringle was the deep man - 15 is Mahomes.

 

 

Yea my bad I saw a 45 back there 

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, Roy Hobbs said:

 

Pringle was the deep man - 15 is Mahomes.

So just Pringle was back?  Sheeesh.  🤮 

[Big Blitz]

Not kicking the low line drive was correct. 

 

Odds it gets downed immediately and probably already around the 30 are high.  

 

The high pop up inside the 10 had to be the call and the way Bass approached and followed thru that looked like what he was doing - but you can't temper your adrenaline like you're at a Friday walk thru

Edited January 25, 2022 by Big Blitz