Are coaches always to blame - McD, Frazier & Daboll?

[Billsfan1972]

So let me get this out of the way first.  I am confident about Sunday, but never can be 100% sure.....😜

 

But I'm already ready to blame coaching should anything go wrong.

 

When Allen doesn't play well (except probably the 3 ints vs. Atlanta & Jax games) I'm always ready & going to blame Daboll.

 

Not fair, but seems we've seen it this year almost always after a great game, that play calling (especially redzone) seems off the following week (yep could have been weather too i.e. NE).     

 

Last weekend McCarthy & coaching took much of the heat in the Dallas/SF game.

 

I just hope that there is no reins put on Allen this (and the following two games this year😜)

Edited January 21, 2022 by Billsfan1972
Fixed title.....

[Mango]

That run with 14 seconds was absurd. Didn't they confirm that was the call and McCarthy confirmed/OK'd the call on the headset. And they they even practice this play call....without a ref....where the center just spots the ball himself and somebody taps it...Not to mention that the self spotted ball on game day was nearly 2 full yards off the mark.....

It is wild that there is a thread about our coaches maybe being on the hot seat with a bad performance, while also comparing it to the biggest coaching blunder of the playoffs so far this year. 

When Allen throws 3 interceptions in a game, there can be a lot of reasons for it. But I put most of it on the QB...on any team. 

We have a strong HC who has some leash, who also provides his staff with some leash. Nobody is on the hot seat from a coordinator perspective. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Mango

[JGMcD2]

6 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

So let me get this out of the way first.  I am confident about Sunday, but never can be 100% sure.....😜

 

But I'm already ready to blame coaching should anything go wrong.

 

When Allen doesn't play well (except probably the 3 ints vs. Atlanta & Jax games) I'm always ready & going to blame Daboll.

 

Not fair, but seems we've seen it this year almost always after a great game, that play calling (especially redzone) seems off the following week (yep could have been weather too i.e. NE).     

 

Last weekend McCarthy & coaching took much of the heat in the Dallas/SF game.

 

I just hope that there is no reins put on Allen this (and the following two games this year😜)

This doesn’t make any sense… 

 

If they ***** up…they’ll hear about it. Rightfully so. It doesn’t mean they’re going to be on the hot seat. 
 

We’re one of the best run teams in the league… but mistakes will be made. Nobody is impervious to them. 

[Billsfan1972]

Just now, Mango said:

That run with 14 seconds was absurd. Didn't they confirm that was the call and McCarthy confirmed/OK'd the call on the headset. And they they even practice this play call....without a ref....where the center just spots the ball himself. 

It is wild that there is a thread about our coaches maybe being on the hot seat with a bad performance, while also comparing it to the biggest coaching blunder of the playoffs so far this year. 

When Allen throws 3 interceptions in a game, there can be a lot of reasons for it. But I put most of it on the QB...on any team. 

We have a strong HC who has some leash, who also provides his staff with some leash. Nobody is on the hot seat from a coordinator perspective. 

Hot seat as in firing, of course not.  But that will be the talk Monday.

 

The 4th down play vs. Tennessee was a coaching blunder.  Yes Allen slipped, but was unorganized and you could tell the Bills were not prepared.

 

However I am posting just for discussion as I am confident.

1 minute ago, JGMcD2 said:

This doesn’t make any sense… 

 

If they ***** up…they’ll hear about it. Rightfully so. It doesn’t mean they’re going to be on the hot seat. 
 

We’re one of the best run teams in the league… but mistakes will be made. Nobody is impervious to them. 

I couldn't think about the right words....  Yes if they ***** up they'll hear it.  I am not using the word, but Coaching will hear about it.

[teef]

So…if the bills win, the op will be happy.  If the bills lose, the op will blame coaching.  
 

 

revolutionary. 

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Hot seat as in firing, of course not.  But that will be the talk Monday.

 

The 4th down play vs. Tennessee was a coaching blunder.  Yes Allen slipped, but was unorganized and you could tell the Bills were not prepared.

 

However I am posting just for discussion as I am confident.

 

What do you mean by hot seat then? Do coaches receive criticism when things go wrong? Yes. In fact you are already ready to, no matter what happens on Sunday. Which is wild in and of itself. 

 

The 4th down call, a coaching blunder? what are you talking about? Disagree with the decision, fine. I won't argue the call one way or the other. Unorganized? They came out of a timeout, lined up just fine. We failed to execute. Tennessee did a better job, it is what it is. And to bring that up in the same scenario of the total systemic and organizational failure of what happened in that Dallas game, is absolutely wild. 
 

 

[Billsfan1972]

4 minutes ago, teef said:

So…if the bills win, the op will be happy.  If the bills lose, the op will blame coaching.  
 

 

revolutionary. 

Can't help yourself (just like me).  I have not and will not use the L word.😜

 

I've blamed the coaching on every bad game Allen has had since day 1!!!!!!!!😜

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

What do you mean by hot seat then? Do coaches receive criticism when things go wrong? Yes. In fact you are already ready to, no matter what happens on Sunday. Which is wild in and of itself. 

 

The 4th down call, a coaching blunder? what are you talking about? Disagree with the decision, fine. I won't argue the call one way or the other. Unorganized? They came out of a timeout, lined up just fine. We failed to execute. Tennessee did a better job, it is what it is. And to bring that up in the same scenario of the total systemic and organizational failure of what happened in that Dallas game, is absolutely wild. 
 

 

Tennessee said they knew exactly where the Bills were going on the play.  There were 3 titans lined up on the side Allen went.  

 

Okay Hot Seat is wrong.  Will coaching be blamed????  Is that better?

[ProcessTruster]

No.  I'd absolutely bring them all back next season, regardless of what happens Sunday.   Bills have a great thing going.   Saturday proved it. 

 

Don't go and screw it up now.   Mc Beanes are killing it.  

[JGMcD2]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Okay Hot Seat is wrong.  Will coaching be blamed????  Is that better?

Yeah, thanks. 
 

Phrases have specific meanings for a reason… 

[teef]

2 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Can't help yourself (just like me).  I have not and will not use the L word.😜

 

I've blamed the coaching on every bad game Allen has had since day 1!!!!!!!!😜

We’ll that was my point.  Your threads tend to follow the same theme. If the bills score a lot of points, your happy because that’s what you wanted them to do.   If they lose, you’re critical of coaching, because you feel they wouldn’t let Allen score more points.  Every single thread is a version of this. 
 

See the concern here?

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Coaches can be criticized just like players. There's a difference between being critical and saying someone should be replaced.

 

Coaches are a huge part of the game. The game plan is very important. Game day coaching is also very important. 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by Buffalo_Stampede

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, teef said:

We’ll that was my point.  Your threads tend to follow the same theme. If the bills score a lot of points, your happy because that’s what you wanted them to do.   If they lose, you’re critical of coaching, because you feel they wouldn’t let Allen score more points.  Every single thread is a version of this. 
 

See the concern here?

Because I believe it as we see what Allen is capable of (at least vs. NE😜).

[teef]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

Because I believe it as we see what Allen is capable of (at least vs. NE😜).

I don’t think you understand.  We’ll, either way I’ll be looking forward to you next thread. 

[Billsfan1972]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

I don’t think you understand.  We’ll, either way I’ll be looking forward to you next thread. 

Naw I do.....  I think you miss the point.  But tired of this circular argument when it comes to Allen.

 

I btw refuse to say/use/write the L word. 

[teef]

Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

Naw I do.....  I think you miss the point.  But tired of this circular argument when it comes to Allen.

 

I btw refuse to say/use/write the L word. 

There isn’t a point.  You just started a thread to let us know that you’ll complain about coaching if the bills lose.  
 

I thought you might get the point when the last few threads you’ve started have been ***** down to protect you from you.  Any of this sink in?

[BuffaloBillyG]

20 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

What do you mean by hot seat then? Do coaches receive criticism when things go wrong? Yes. In fact you are already ready to, no matter what happens on Sunday. Which is wild in and of itself. 

 

The 4th down call, a coaching blunder? what are you talking about? Disagree with the decision, fine. I won't argue the call one way or the other. Unorganized? They came out of a timeout, lined up just fine. We failed to execute. Tennessee did a better job, it is what it is. And to bring that up in the same scenario of the total systemic and organizational failure of what happened in that Dallas game, is absolutely wild. 
 

 

Looked to me then and still looks like on that play Allen was given 2 sets of plays. He starts out in the shotgun. Reads where the Titans are lined up and sdes they are light in the line with some LBers...look to be playing the pass. Allen reads and adjusts to (is baited into) the run. Ball snapped and he slips, Dawkins is blown up and Allen plunges low to try and gain. May have had a better chance if he tried to stay high and let some of his teammates push and pull him along. Never know 

 

One thing for sure...that was not on coaching at that point. Allen though he had the right read and Dawk got out muscled. Simple as that.

[Brand J]

2 hours ago, No Place To Hyde said:

Looked to me then and still looks like on that play Allen was given 2 sets of plays. He starts out in the shotgun. Reads where the Titans are lined up and sdes they are light in the line with some LBers...look to be playing the pass. Allen reads and adjusts to (is baited into) the run. Ball snapped and he slips, Dawkins is blown up and Allen plunges low to try and gain. May have had a better chance if he tried to stay high and let some of his teammates push and pull him along. Never know 

 

One thing for sure...that was not on coaching at that point. Allen though he had the right read and Dawk got out muscled. Simple as that.

He also snuck the ball to the wrong gap - the one the Titans said they were advised he always sneaks to. If you look at the overhead shot of the play, if he sneaks behind the right guard he may barrel in for a TD. The left side was far too bunched up, 2 players within centimeters of each other and the player on the end was arguably their best DL.

[Nextmanup]

Some football fans will tell you a huge percentage of winning in the NFL is coaching, usually by means of scheming.

 

Put the guys on the field in the right places and tell them to do the right things, and they'll do it.

 

Consider that the talent disparity among ALL players in the NFL is minor.  They are all elite athletes and great players exist on every team.

 

Some are better than others for sure--but I am inclined to think coaching does go a long way to success at the NFL level.

 

 

[ArtVandalay]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

 

What do you mean by hot seat then? Do coaches receive criticism when things go wrong? Yes. In fact you are already ready to, no matter what happens on Sunday. Which is wild in and of itself. 

 

The 4th down call, a coaching blunder? what are you talking about? Disagree with the decision, fine. I won't argue the call one way or the other. Unorganized? They came out of a timeout, lined up just fine. We failed to execute. Tennessee did a better job, it is what it is. And to bring that up in the same scenario of the total systemic and organizational failure of what happened in that Dallas game, is absolutely wild. 
 

 

Our line was getting manhandled at the time.  The LG got thrown in Allen's lap the play stood no chance. 

 

But the blunder is you have 22 seconds and you are on the 3 yardline on 4th down. You are not scoring a sneak from the 3 vs a goal line D, so the play is purely for a 1st down. Then you need to rip off another play with what 17 or less seconds and no time outs to score? It's a massive blunder. You go for the TD or kick the FG. You don't try for a 1st down with under 20 seconds.  Stupid.

 

To make matters worse the Bills line was off the LOS in a pass block formation not up on the line to run block.  

 

Blunders like this are why the Bills were 0-5 in one score games. Just an awful call all around. 

Edited January 21, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[Mango]

8 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

Our line was getting manhandled at the time.  The LG got thrown in Allen's lap the play stood no chance. 

 

But the blunder is you have 22 seconds and you are on the 3 yardline on 4th down. You are not scoring a sneak from the 3 vs a goal line D, so the play is purely for a 1st down. Then you need to rip off another play with what 17 or less seconds and no time outs to score? It's a massive blunder. You go for the TD or kick the FG. You don't try for a 1st down with under 20 seconds.  Stupid.

 

To make matters worse the Bills line was off the LOS in a pass block formation not up on the line to run block.  

 

Blunders like this are why the Bills were 0-5 in one score games. Just an awful call all around. 

Bills had a timeout. Play looks like Allen checked into a run. 

 

So in that scenario, what’s the coaching blunder? 

[Utah John]

Sure there are games where the coaches are out-guessed by the other team's coaches.  It happens.  But there are also games where Josh is just ... off.  Not accurate or smart.  He isn't always a combination of Superman and Captain America.  Sometimes he's just a QB who misses an easy completion on a short out, killing a drive.  It happens.  Coaches and QBs and all the other players are human beings who sometimes make mistakes.  

[ArtVandalay]

10 minutes ago, Mango said:

Bills had a timeout. Play looks like Allen checked into a run. 

 

So in that scenario, what’s the coaching blunder? 

I didn't say they didn't have a time out. I was saying you run for the 1st, you stop the clock at 17 seconds or so,  now you still need to run another play and score with no time outs, that's what I was trying to communicate. 

 

Did Allen check? I don't think so unless he or a coach said so I don't think that's the case, looked to be deception by design. 

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

I didn't say they didn't have a time out. I was saying you run for the 1st, you stop the clock at 17 seconds or so,  now you still need to run another play and score with no time outs, that's what I was trying to communicate. 

 

Did Allen check? I don't think so unless he or a coach said so I don't think that's the case, looked to be deception by design. 

 

Really poor choice of words then. 
 

"Then you need to rip off another play with what 17 or less seconds and no time outs to score?" - You can get two maaaybeee three passing plays with 17 seconds left on the 3. It is presnap read, hit your backfoot, fire it in there or into the stands. You phrased it as that there was inherent risk in just getting a single play off in "17 seconds" and with "no time outs". 

Also weird you mention you thought the Bills OL lined up for pass. Allen lines up in shotgun. But the coaching staff didn't get the team lined up properly? 

I actually would have played for the FG there. I disliked the decision as a whole. But it wasn't a coaching blunder. Allen made the wrong check and slipped. The OL lost their one on ones. It is what it is

[GoBills808]

Not as much as people think

 

If a player or unit’s not in a position to succeed then that’s the coaches fault, but more often it’s an execution (player) issue

[Royale with Cheese]

2 hours ago, teef said:

There isn’t a point.  You just started a thread to let us know that you’ll complain about coaching if the bills lose.  
 

I thought you might get the point when the last few threads you’ve started have been ***** down to protect you from you.  Any of this sink in?

I don’t think there’s a poster that has had more eye rolls than him.  But everyone else misses the point.

[TBBills]

These next 2 games need to be Daboll's finest b.c he is showing he can bring a genius for offensive power.

 

Same For Fraizer...

[FilthyBeast]

3 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

So let me get this out of the way first.  I am confident about Sunday, but never can be 100% sure.....😜

 

But I'm already ready to blame coaching should anything go wrong.

 

When Allen doesn't play well (except probably the 3 ints vs. Atlanta & Jax games) I'm always ready & going to blame Daboll.

 

Not fair, but seems we've seen it this year almost always after a great game, that play calling (especially redzone) seems off the following week (yep could have been weather too i.e. NE).     

 

Last weekend McCarthy & coaching took much of the heat in the Dallas/SF game.

 

I just hope that there is no reins put on Allen this (and the following two games this year😜)

 

Taking last week's PO game out of the equation, the common theme with this team this season when they've played well is playing aggressive. Specifically the first matchup against the Chiefs and the key road game in NE. Even in the loss against the Titans McDermott opted to go for the win instead of the tie even though it was unsuccessful.

 

So if this game ends up being similar to last year's AFCCG and McD at any point settles for a field goal in the redzone instead of going for a TD on 4th down that will ultimately dictate the outcome of this game especially if we are in situation where were are trailing by a TD or more. The realization simply has to be there that FG's aren't going to cut it and I expect Andy Reid to also play similarly against the Bills because that's been his MO for some time.

 

 

[Billsfan1972]

6 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

I don’t think there’s a poster that has had more eye rolls than him.  But everyone else misses the point.

Was waiting for you to show up.....  You & Teef leading the charge.

 

I'm a fan and asking a question.  I have the utmost confidence in the Bills offense and most times when things don't go well I blame Daboll. 

 

If KC has long drawn out drives and converts too many 3rd & 4th downs, I will blame Frazier. 

 

Just an observation and my opinion.  Let me apologize to you......  

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, teef said:

There isn’t a point.  You just started a thread to let us know that you’ll complain about coaching if the bills lose.  
 

I thought you might get the point when the last few threads you’ve started have been ***** down to protect you from you.  Any of this sink in?

No matter what happens during the game, he will blame coaching if the Bills don't win.  Premeditated blame. 

 

If Allen goes full Peterman and throws 7 INTs in the first half, OP will say "Daboll, why you call the interception play?!?!"  If Levi Wallace goes into a fugue state and forgets what football is OP is going to Blame Frazier for not having 13 men on the field.  

 

The only part of this I don't understand is why OP titled this thread in the form of a question when its obvious that he believes everything that happens in a loss is due to coaching.

[ArtVandalay]

24 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Really poor choice of words then. 
 

"Then you need to rip off another play with what 17 or less seconds and no time outs to score?" - You can get two maaaybeee three passing plays with 17 seconds left on the 3. It is presnap read, hit your backfoot, fire it in there or into the stands. You phrased it as that there was inherent risk in just getting a single play off in "17 seconds" and with "no time outs". 

Also weird you mention you thought the Bills OL lined up for pass. Allen lines up in shotgun. But the coaching staff didn't get the team lined up properly? 

I actually would have played for the FG there. I disliked the decision as a whole. But it wasn't a coaching blunder. Allen made the wrong check and slipped. The OL lost their one on ones. It is what it is

Fine whatever lol... 17 sec no TO to score after a first down... 3 plays? Maybe... or maybe only one of you are sacked or stopped short. 

 

I didn't think the Bills lined up on pass formation, that's what they did, look at the play, the are off the LOS with Allen in shotgun. That's a fact.  Bills run out of shotgun like this and for short yardage it's a disaster waiting to happen. You guard is a half yard off the LOS, you're doomed.

 

 

Edited January 21, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[Billsfan1972]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

No matter what happens during the game, he will blame coaching if the Bills don't win.  Premeditated blame. 

 

If Allen goes full Peterman and throws 7 INTs in the first half, OP will say "Daboll, why you call the interception play?!?!"  If Levi Wallace goes into a fugue state and forgets what football is OP is going to Blame Frazier for not having 13 men on the field.  

 

The only part of this I don't understand is why OP titled this thread in the form of a question when its obvious that he believes everything that happens in a loss is due to coaching.

Asking others for opinions.....  You're right (and said it in the original post that I am ready to blame coaching), as far as I have seen, Allen has had very few stinkers the past two years.  He was not good vs. Jax and just weird set of circumstances vs. Atl.  Yes for the most part I though bad play calling has reared it's ugly head a # of games. 

 

When you are convinced the Bills are the best team, if they lose, yes will be looking for blame.

 

I don't want to see that this Sunday.    

Edited January 21, 2022 by Billsfan1972

[Billsfan1972]

On 1/21/2022 at 10:25 AM, teef said:

So…if the bills win, the op will be happy.  If the bills lose, the op will blame coaching.  
 

 

revolutionary. 

Sorry but as I posted, yet again it came down to inept coaching with 13 seconds left...... 

 

I am gutted right now, but that was my thread Friday and the one thing I kept thinking may happen and this would be the result.

 

Really do you think I wanted to be here & post this???!!!

[GunnerBill]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Sorry but as I posted, yet again it came down to inept coaching with 13 seconds left...... 

 

I am gutted right now, but that was my thread Friday and the one thing I kept thinking may happen and this would be the result.

 

Really do you think I wanted to be here & post this???!!!

 

The game management decisions at the end were incorrect. They are on coaching. But this game was a whoever had the ball last game. I knew all week it would be. It came down to the two best players in the league and neither could be stopped. The Steel Curtain, the '85 Bears, the 2000 Ravens would not have stopped Allen and Mahomes last night. 

[Man with No Name]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The game management decisions at the end were incorrect. They are on coaching. But this game was a whoever had the ball last game. I knew all week it would be. It came down to the two best players in the league and neither could be stopped. The Steel Curtain, the '85 Bears, the 2000 Ravens would not have stopped Allen and Mahomes last night. 

the whoever had the ball last thing is true. we all knew mahomes would score with 2 minutes left. there was a good chance allen would score with a minute left. but 13 seconds left does not apply to "whoever has the ball last"  13 seconds is not a guarantee, but it needs to be better than what we did.  the coaches did not give us a chance at the end. 

[BillsFanSD]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The game management decisions at the end were incorrect. They are on coaching. But this game was a whoever had the ball last game. I knew all week it would be. It came down to the two best players in the league and neither could be stopped. The Steel Curtain, the '85 Bears, the 2000 Ravens would not have stopped Allen and Mahomes last night. 

It's one thing to play "whoever has the ball last" card when you leave two minutes on the clock for the other guys, like we did on our next to last score.  You can also play that card when you leave 1:09 on the clock for the other guys, like the Chiefs did on their TD.  It doesn't apply when you take the lead with 13 seconds remaining.  

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BillsFanSD said:

It's one thing to play "whoever has the ball last" card when you leave two minutes on the clock for the other guys, like we did on our next to last score.  You can also play that card when you leave 1:09 on the clock for the other guys, like the Chiefs did on their TD.  It doesn't apply when you take the lead with 13 seconds remaining.  

 

They screwed up the game management at the end, no question. But this is where we are in the NFL now. The truly elite Quarterbacks need very little time to kill you. 13 seconds and three time outs is 3 plays. That is too many to give Mahomes. If they have squibbed it is maybe down to two plays and that might have been enough. But even then, no guarantee. Patrick Mahomes is freaking incredible. So is Josh Allen. I have no doubt the roles reversed Allen would have got us into FG range too. 

[Scott7975]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The game management decisions at the end were incorrect. They are on coaching. But this game was a whoever had the ball last game. I knew all week it would be. It came down to the two best players in the league and neither could be stopped. The Steel Curtain, the '85 Bears, the 2000 Ravens would not have stopped Allen and Mahomes last night. 

 

Nobody should score with 13 seconds left.  I don't care how good the QB is.  That was a coaching blunder.  You don't need the 85 Bears defense to stop someone with only 13 seconds time.  You just don't.  They made it too damn easy.  It wasn't Mahomes they needed to stop it was wide open Hill and Kelce getting 500 yards after the catch.

[Matt_In_NH]

The defense they were in with 13 seconds left sucked.   No one will convince me otherwise.   They just gave them a fg attempt 

[billsfan714]

They will show that D in the final 13 seconds as an example of what never to do in coaching clinics for generations.

Edited January 24, 2022 by billsfan714

[Billsfan1972]

There were plenty of other mistakes one can point to, but the last 13 seconds were just terribly managed, no if ands or buts.

 

Sorry a kick down to the 5 and 20 yard yard return leaves 7 seconds on the clock.  No QB is getting into field gal range with 7 seconds. 

 

Those two plays were served on a platter to Mahomes.