Can we finally put the need for a dome stadium to rest?

[MAJBobby]

2 minutes ago, purple haze said:

PS & E did all of their research and studies.  They already stated what the stadium was going to be.   Are arguments for a roof based on some information that they have changed their minds?

Low key Conspiracy. Pegulas did the study, Terry paid. Who is to say Terry (the hockey fan) doesn’t want a dome because then he gets no outdoor winter classics 

[Einstein]

31 minutes ago, Fallser said:

Accurate. But folks that moved south demand that WNY and the Bills build a dome so they can be comfy. Hypocrisy is comical.

 

I have found that correlation to be true. The majority of dome’rs that I have spoken to do not live in the area.

 

.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Einstein

[CountDorkula]

31 minutes ago, Fallser said:

Accurate. But folks that moved south demand that WNY and the Bills build a dome so they can be comfy. Hypocrisy is comical.

I’m in WNY. I want a dome. 
 

I’d wager a pretty penny that 99% if the players if asked if they’d rather play in 10 degree and snow or 65 in a dome thud choose the dome. 

[Since1981]

Terry wants open air, natural grass. I’d like to hear his rationale. His $250M highest paid employee asked for a dome. Seriously, would be good to hear. 

[Fallser]

18 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

WNY would benefit from a dome stadium because it would be a multi venue location.  The cost of the roof is really irrelevant because the venue would be around 50 years or so.  The amount of revenue generated over that time would more than cover the expense. 

 

All you have to do is look at the last 50 years of events at the Ralph.  Overwhelmingly Bills games not much else.  A dome would afford all sorts of revenue opportunities - concerts, auto shows, NCAA basketball tournament games, etc.  The ***** weather and feeling uncomfortable has little to do with it.  

 

This isn't really true always, the stadiums are "sold" (occupying teams threaten to move away) to cities and municipalities as economic engines...but truth is that football stadiums have little to no long term impact on job creation due to the fact that there are simply not enough games. Thats why the multi-stadiums were born in the 70s.  It just doesn't work. The cities/taxpayers foot the bill with the team chipping in a bitty portion. But the real onus falls on Tax payer Joe gets who no monetary return, but a quality of life return if he happens to enjoy football.  WNY/NY/Erie county can't afford a Allianze/ATT/Mercedes dome. If, er...WHEN buffalo gets a team it will look like Heinze Field or Lincoln Financial or Gillette.

 

(See Michael Leeds books about this)

Edited January 3, 2022 by Fallser

[DCbillsfan]

4 minutes ago, purple haze said:

PS & E did all of their research and studies.  They already stated what the stadium was going to be.   Are arguments for a roof based on some information that they have changed their minds?

I have not followed the new stadium situation closely.  PSE determined new stadium.  Did they announce open air stadium as well?

[Einstein]

As I sat beneath the glow and warmth of the club seat heaters today, I thought to myself: “These are great. They should make them available to all seats.”

 

Then I realized that what I was asking for is essentially a dome.

 

PS, would love to know how much it costs to heat the outside for 6 hours.

 

2 minutes ago, Fallser said:

 

This isn't really true always, the stadiums are "sold" (occupying teams threaten to move away) to cities and municipalities as economic engines...but truth is that football stadiums have little to no long term impact on job creation due to the fact that there are simply not enough games. Thats why the multi-stadiums were born in the 70s.  It just doesn't work. The cities/taxpayers foot the bill with the team chipping in a bitty portion. But the real onus falls on Tax payer Joe gets who no monetary return, but a quality of life return if he happens to enjoy football.  WNY/NY/Erie county can't afford a Allianze/ATT/Mercedes dome. If, er...WHEN buffalo gets a team it will look like Heinze Field or Lincoln Financial or Gillette.

 

(See Michael Leeds books about this)

 

The Vikings built this for $1.1 Billion in 2016. That’s $1.3 Billion, accounting for inflation, in 2021.

 

The Bills budget (from what I recall) is $1.4 Billion.

 

[DCbillsfan]

4 minutes ago, Fallser said:

 

This isn't really true always, the stadiums are "sold" (occupying teams threaten to move away) to cities and municipalities as economic engines...but truth is that football stadiums have little to no long term impact on job creation due to the fact that there are simply not enough games. Thats why the multi-stadiums were born in the 70s.  It just doesn't work. The cities/taxpayers foot the bill with the team chipping in a bitty portion. But the real onus falls on Tax payer Joe gets no monetary return, but a quality of life return if he happens to enjoy football.  WNY/NY/Erie county can't afford a Allianze/ATT/Mercedes dome. If, er...WHEN buffalo gets a team it will look like Heinze Field or Lincoln Financial or Gillette.

 

(See Michael Leeds books about this)

I was thinking more along the lines of the Colts stadium.  I've been to Jerry's World.  It's amazing and it's over the top.  No way am I suggesting anything like that.  Also been to Heinz field.  Bills can't get a new stadium fast enough imo.

[LeGOATski]

The idea of a dome has been dead for a while now. 

 

Football is an outdoor sport. Domes are only needed where there is excess heat, because heat is much more dangerous to people in that setting.

[Einstein]

29 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

 

remember every team in the league is fighting a man cave with 4K HD cheap food and perfect viewing conditions. 

 

Not exactly.

 

The revenue from tickets is a pittance of a teams overall profitability. Somewhere around only 7%. The majority comes from the television contracts.

 

And the home team has to give a big chunk of the ticket revenue to the visiting team.

[Fallser]

1 minute ago, Einstein said:

 

Not exactly.

 

The revenue from tickets is a pittance of a teams overall profitability. Somewhere around only 7%. The majority comes from the television contracts.

 

And the home team has to give a big chunk of the ticket revenue to the visiting team.

Yep, ticket sales are pocket change. TV Deals are where the real money is.

[Billznut]

1 hour ago, TheFunPolice said:

The owners don't want a roof so it's a moot point.

 

We can post all the stats, arguments, and history that we want but the team does not want a dome and that isn't going to change. 

 

 

Agreed. But that’s also what makes the dozens of dome/weather threads so amusing. I honestly believe people think the more they moan and complain about needing a dome, the more likely it is that the Pegulas will change their mind. I don’t think many, if any billionaires in history have let the peasants make their decisions for them. 

44 minutes ago, DCbillsfan said:

WNY would benefit from a dome stadium because it would be a multi venue location.  The cost of the roof is really irrelevant because the venue would be around 50 years or so.  The amount of revenue generated over that time would more than cover the expense. 

 

All you have to do is look at the last 50 years of events at the Ralph.  Overwhelmingly Bills games not much else.  A dome would afford all sorts of revenue opportunities - concerts, auto shows, NCAA basketball tournament games, etc.  The ***** weather and feeling uncomfortable has little to do with it.  

This has been proven false in nearly every single study ever done on this subject. Yet people constantly try to bring it up. I don’t get it. Stadiums never have and never will be a revenue generator over and above the cost of the stadium construction. 

[FieldGeneral]

Put a dome on it. For the money they want, I want to be comfortable. 

[FarrellsFinest]

Am i the only one who saw a bunch of open seats. And a super talented QB get held back from his potential greatness by the elements. 

[QCity]

[Einstein]

17 minutes ago, FarrellsFinest said:

Am i the only one who saw a bunch of open seats. And a super talented QB get held back from his potential greatness by the elements. 

 

The entire upper deck had large areas of empty seats.

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by Einstein

[Bubba Gump]

1st, I have no idea how to do a poll from my phone.

 

2nd, I also have breathing issues (trachea stenosis) when it comes to cold air. I wear a mask to warm the air up. Still don't want a dome.

 

3rd, The atmosphere is 100% better than in a dome. Been there done that and it pretty much sucks compared to Orchard Park.

 

4th, it's still is and always will be a home field advantage. 

 

Chicago, Green Bay, Kansas City, Denver, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cincinnati, New England, New Jersey, Philadelphia, Seattle, Washington, Baltimore, etc.....never hear them bitching for a dome. And most of them have had some pretty good teams. 

 

Buffalo is getting soft!!!

 

 

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The entire upper deck had large areas of empty seats.

 

 

No, the upper corners are never full. The place was 90% full today and Josh and Motor both ran wild to get Buffalo the win. Nice try.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Bubba Gump

[Einstein]

6 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

No, the upper corners are never full. The place was 90% full today and Josh and Motor both ran wild to get Buffalo the win. Nice try.

 

The corners are full during the warm games. I can show you photos, if you’d like.

 

Do you feel that 90% full is a good thing?

[Supe]

 Which is our bigger home field advantage, our weather or our strategic crowd noise? I’m resigned to an OA in OP, but imagine the Bills Mafia jamming communications under an echoing dome!

 

The best stadium I’ve ever been in is in Minneapolis. 

[Bubba Gump]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The corners are full during the warm games. I can show you photos, if you’d like.

 

Do you feel that 90% full is a good thing?

 

I've had season tickets since 1963, so there is not much you can show me. 90% capacity is great in crap weather, unless you're in GB.

[HamptonBillsfan]

A dome is not a desperate need, but it is the best case scenario for our team, the way it's constructed. The fan base deserves a retractable roof to have open air games unless it's frigid temps with harsh precipitation. Why shouldn't we get one? The difference in cost will be made up by all the revenue generated by all the postseason games held there.

[Bubba Gump]

3 minutes ago, Supe said:

 Which is our bigger home field advantage, our weather or our strategic crowd noise? I’m resigned to an OA in OP, but imagine the Bills Mafia jamming communications under an echoing dome!

 

The best stadium I’ve ever been in is in Minneapolis. 

 

But without the priming during pre-game tailgaiting, I think you'll see a lot of people falling asleep. Not sure Buffalo could survive without major tailgaiting. It's too much of a blue collar town. 

1 minute ago, HamptonBillsfan said:

A dome is not a desperate need, but it is the best case scenario for our team, the way it's constructed. The fan base deserves a retractable roof to have open air games unless it's frigid temps with harsh precipitation. Why shouldn't we get one? The difference in cost will be made up by all the revenue generated by all the postseason games held there.

 

How does Green Bay survive then? 

[SirAndrew]

9 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

The corners are full during the warm games. I can show you photos, if you’d like.

 

Do you feel that 90% full is a good thing?

I agree, that’s even more than just upper corners being empty. The entire city watches the Bills on Sunday. It tells me a lot of people stay home this time of year, it’s certainly not due to lack of interest in the team. You’d think it’s a look ownership would want to avoid by building an enclosed stadium. I don’t see empty seats this time of year for other teams in the playoff mix. The Buffalo weather keeps a lot of people away. 

[flmike]

My favorite games were always snow games. Watching Kelly manhandle the Fins in the snow was awesome. Gotta have a reason for all that cold weather Bills gear! Fans looked like they were having a blast today.

[CountDorkula]

14 minutes ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

But without the priming during pre-game tailgaiting, I think you'll see a lot of people falling asleep. Not sure Buffalo could survive without major tailgaiting. It's too much of a blue collar town. 

 

How does Green Bay survive then? 

Buffalo is not, and has not been a blue collar town for a very long time. 

[Bubba Gump]

I must be doing something wrong then

Then I hope they build that new stadium at about 40,000 seats. Most of my long time STH friends wont be able to afford the PSL's.

[Da webster guy]

Some days you want a dome, this year more than half of the games were in unpleasant conditions.

 

Some days you want the open air and natural light, the feel of an authentic outdoor football game.

 

In my view there is almost nothing worse than having a beautiful weather day for football and having to go inside a dome.  It kills the vibe for me.

 

There are good and bad to both options, like most anything in life.  

 

The last 4 games I went to were the snow game vs Indy, Balt playoffs last year, all day rain vs Houston this year and crazy wind Monday night a few weeks ago.  Thats the snowiest, coldest , rainiest and most windy games the Bills have played in as my last experiences and I'm still happy they're going for a new open air stadium in OP.  

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, LeGOATski said:

The idea of a dome has been dead for a while now. 

 

Football is an outdoor sport. Domes are only needed where there is excess heat, because heat is much more dangerous to people in that setting.

 

 

5 of the last 7 new stadiums built have been domes.

 

The biggest game of the year is more often than not going to be played in a dome from here on out.

 

It was an outdoor sport 20 years ago,  but not anymore.

 

The future of NFL football is indoors or in good weather.

 

[LeGOATski]

3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

5 of the last 7 new stadiums built have been domes.

 

The biggest game of the year is more often than not going to be played in a dome from here on out.

 

It was an outdoor sport 20 years ago,  but not anymore.

 

The future of NFL football is indoors or in good weather.

 

I don't care about any of this.

[Augie]

35 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

Some days you want a dome, this year more than half of the games were in unpleasant conditions.

 

Some days you want the open air and natural light, the feel of an authentic outdoor football game.

 

In my view there is almost nothing worse than having a beautiful weather day for football and having to go inside a dome.  It kills the vibe for me.

 

There are good and bad to both options, like most anything in life.  

 

The last 4 games I went to were the snow game vs Indy, Balt playoffs last year, all day rain vs Houston this year and crazy wind Monday night a few weeks ago.  Thats the snowiest, coldest , rainiest and most windy games the Bills have played in as my last experiences and I'm still happy they're going for a new open air stadium in OP.  

 

Maybe the Bills should pay you to stash home???    🤷‍♂️

[BADOLBILZ]

26 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

I don't care about any of this.

 

If the subject is what we don't care about........fill in the blanks about how much I care about your very existence. 

 

The subject is the sustainability of football in Buffalo...........and make no mistake it is going to be about maximizing revenue..........which is why so many of those new stadiums are domes.

 

Do I expect the Bills to f*ck it up and build another venue that contributes to them continuing to be a historically bottom third winning % franchise?  Yep.

[Einstein]

1 hour ago, Bubba Gump said:

 

I've had season tickets since 1963, so there is not much you can show me. 90% capacity is great in crap weather, unless you're in GB.

 

I disagree that 10% of the stadium being empty is “great”. Ever.

[purple haze]

3 hours ago, DCbillsfan said:

I have not followed the new stadium situation closely.  PSE determined new stadium.  Did they announce open air stadium as well?

A long time ago -  the type of stadium, location and capacity: Open air, an overhang to shield fans from the elements, 60-62,000 seats in Orchard Park.

[purple haze]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

The entire upper deck had large areas of empty seats.

 

New Stadium capacity will be 10,000 -12,000 seats less too.   So, no problem.   Stay home and enjoy the TV broadcast.  The Pegula’s have accounted for the optics.  They ultimately make more money if TV viewership is high.

[MJS]

Josh Allen has proved to be a bit shaky in bad weather games. What does that tell me? He needs to keep playing in them until he is no longer shaky. Get more and more experience in the rain, snow, and wind and he will figure out what he can and can't do.

 

It's a certainty that he will have to play in bad weather playoff games in the years going forward. Better for him to work through it than just hope to play in a dome.

Edited January 3, 2022 by MJS

[LeGOATski]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

If the subject is what we don't care about........fill in the blanks about how much I care about your very existence. 

 

The subject is the sustainability of football in Buffalo...........and make no mistake it is going to be about maximizing revenue..........which is why so many of those new stadiums are domes.

 

Do I expect the Bills to f*ck it up and build another venue that contributes to them continuing to be a historically bottom third winning % franchise?  Yep.

You apparently care a lot. It'll be okay, though.

[Bubba Gump]

54 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I disagree that 10% of the stadium being empty is “great”. Ever.

 

It may not be great, but that stadium is usually close to 100% full. I go to every game and even the monsoon during the Houston game the place was packed.

 

When it was Rich Stadium it held close to 80,000 people and was one of the biggest stadiums in the league. They had to take seats out because it was just too big for the market. It also wasn't built to handle that many people. Still too many people for those tiny corridors. Buffalo needs no more than a 65,000 seat stadium.

[dma0034]

This isn't just about the perfect conditions for team. This is also about perfect conditions for fans too. You can charge more for those winter games because you don't lose a ton of people who won't sit through those cold weather games. 

[ExiledInIllinois]

GB... FWIW... Really doesn't have the extreme microclimate Orchard Park does.  Sure it snows, gets very cold... But it doesn't affect the game as crazy as the microclimate does alee of the Lake like in Orchard Park. 

 

Average yearly snowfall in GB is 50-60"... Orchard Park is double @ 115" a year. Lots of heavy snows come early in OP... November/December when Lake is still warm... Again... GB is almost 1/2 with only 2" and 14" average in November/December annually. 

 

FWIW

[Jay_Fixit]

No. No we won’t.

 

Dome is needed.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Jay_Fixit