MYTH Busted: "The Defense couldn't stop the Run"

[Utah John]

How many times did the Bills's D stop the runner for no gain?  How many for losses?  I wasn't counting but I think there must have been 8-10 plays for no gain and 5-6 for a loss.  OTOH there were probably 8-10 plays where the Pat RB assisted by the O line just pushed the Bills D backwards for 10 yards.  The moral of the story is that the Bills CAN stop some runs all of the time, and all runs some of the time, but they can't stop all the runs all the time.  But who CAN stop an NFL attack all the time?  No one.  The Bills D is not the problem.  Our lightweight O line is the problem.

 

Once the Bills figured out that Milano could run through the gap left by the pulling guard, resulting in two big negative plays, the Pats' running attack lost its spark.  It's a shame that no one figured out what to do on those plays until so late in the game.  

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, BeastMaster said:

Except that this was not the standard NFL game.

 

You're starting from a flawed premise, which is leading you to a faulty conclusion.

 

The Pats did what they set out to do, and the defense didn't stop them from doing it. 

 

Oh, so now YOU GUYS are discounting things like accusing us of "forgetting the long run". Nah dude, it's an NFL game. A game is a game.

 

The Pats wanted to punt 6 out of 9 times, with 4 3-and-outs. Got it. Belichick really is a genius to come up with that game plan.

[bigduke6]

didnt read the whole thread,  our run d wasnt THE problem,  but it was definitely a problem.  when u give up that many yards on basically 3 different plays,  when u knew the opposition was going to do it,  play after play after play,  and u cant adjust to it until late in the 3rd quarter,  thats a problem.   

 

did the D lose us this game,  nah,  the O was atrocious all around and cost us the game,  but our defense got hammered by the most basic of running games.   problem.

 

tbh ive never seen a team do that to another team in modern football.    Epenesa was so bad against that one running play,  he should be cut.

[FireChans]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

14 points and 240 total yards is a good D performance. I am right.

 

Pats are happy because they won. That is all. If the Offense doesnt trip on our ***** all night, they are much more pissed about their crappy QB who cant be trusted to throw the ball.

Buddy, they outgained us and outscored us without passing the ball and without turning it over. That was a total team win by them, besides ST. Their gameplan was to run the ball, control the clock, and win a low scoring game in a horrific environment. And their phases executed.
 

Your premise is incorrect. 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, bigduke6 said:

Epenesa was so bad against that one running play,  he should be cut.

 

This was my first reaction last night as well. However, we really dont know what defense was called or what his responsibilities were. Maybe they expected a run up the middle and his job was to crash inside.

 

Probably not, but just saying, we dont know for sure.

[bigK14094]

I think McD interceeded  between qte 3 &  4.  Announcers said McD spent the entire minute talking to Milano.  After that, Milano shot the gap tand the wide running stuff ceased being successful for the Pats.   McD call that shot....as LF did not imho.  LF may be a tad to  conservative to make the calls all the time.  But, it was to late, and the Bills O couldn't put up any more points.

[bigduke6]

problem is,  the adjustment that allowed the d to start making plays against the run came too late.    the pats ate up most of our offenses time with the wind last night.   can our d stop the run?.  sure,  but they didnt when it was needed.

[BillsFanSD]

42 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

So suddenly 222 yards of offense in a game is bad?  What would you be saying if they passed for 222 yards?  Probably not much.  Defense gave up 2 drives over 5 plays all game and 1 TD.  They had a strong outing.

Under normal circumstances, giving up 222 yards of total offense would be great.

 

These weren't normal circumstances.  This game was played in a wind tunnel.  Our opponents left their regular playbook back in Foxborough and ran a high school offense that Belichick probably designed on the flight to Buffalo.  They made absolutely no effort whatsoever to pass the ball, which in the modern NFL is like playing with both hands tied behind your back.

 

The Bills knew they were going to run on every play.  They still gave up 222 yards on the ground.  Despite knowing exactly what was coming.

 

Yeah, that sucks.

 

Edit: If you want to start a thread about how our offense let the team down, I'm happy to chime on on that one too.  It's not like this was all on the defense or anything, but it was definitely partly on them.

Edited December 7, 2021 by BillsFanSD

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

Defense played fine.

 

It was always a lazy take that the defense was the problem. They allowed 14 total points.

 

While were in the mood of busting myths, Belichick was not a great coach last night.

 

For all of the rushing yards the Patriots had, they only put up 14 points.

 

If Diggs catches that TD pass, no one is talking about Belichick at all today.  Because the Bills would have won. Belichick's gameplan was *****. He ran it almost 50 times, only scored 14 points, and it took the Bills a dropped TD, two dropped first downs, and a fumble where no one touched the RB, for the Pats to win by 4.

 

 

BB called 3 pass plays. Looked out the window pregame and decided he wasn’t going to bother throwing the ball.  He forced the Bills to throw.  He was right.  His team won.  
 

If that punt hadn’t barely grazed that NE dudes helmet,  Bills Offense would have had no TDs. 
 

 

[BeastMaster]

The only thing I'll give the OP is that the offense could've bailed the defense out had they gotten a lead and put pressure on the Pats to have to throw the ball.

 

If that would have happened, the defense would have gotten credited with a good game.

 

 

[26TrapDraw]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Patriots had 9 real possessions all game (not counting the last to kill the clock).

 

They punted 6 out of 9 possessions.

 

4 of those punts were 3 and outs. The other 2 possessions were 4 plays and 5 plays. The only long drive they had resulted in a mere Field Goal.

 

What more could the Defense have done?

 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

TD (3 plays)

FG (9 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (4 plays)

Punt (5 plays)

FG (14 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Defense did a decent job. The problem with this team is our running game blows donkey %^$#s and our Oline couldn't block a fifth grader in the running game. Everyone thinks our RB's are subpar. When they have putrid throw up in front of them blocking what are they supposed to do? Thurman Thomas would of had a hard time getting 50 yards rushing with this line. Defense play with just 4 upfront and can easily stop the run because our OLINE sucks. Then the back 7 covers our receivers and Josh cannot throw ( why he's been getting sacked like crazy most are coverage sacks) it's the reason we are where we are. In my opinion we don't belong in the playoffs. The oline is garbage.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, BeastMaster said:

The only thing I'll give the OP is that the offense could've bailed the defense out had they gotten a lead and put pressure on the Pats to have to throw the ball.

 

If that would have happened, the defense would have gotten credited with a good game.

 

 

 

So if not for the Offense sucking all night and losing the game for us, the Defense played a good game. Thank you.

[Fan in Chicago]

2 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Patriots had 9 real possessions all game (not counting the last to kill the clock).

 

They punted 6 out of 9 possessions.

 

4 of those punts were 3 and outs. The other 2 possessions were 4 plays and 5 plays. The only long drive they had resulted in a mere Field Goal.

 

What more could the Defense have done?

 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

TD (3 plays)

FG (9 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (4 plays)

Punt (5 plays)

FG (14 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Many ways to say the same story. 

 

222 yards on the ground (~160+ minus the long TD run, which counts big time)

4.9 YPR average

 

--> Lot of yards on the ground, knowing they weren't going to pass. It is never the fault of just one side of the ball, but I would place the blame 60-40 on D and O.  

[Old Coot]

I agree that our D played well against the run except on two occasions:

 

1. The 62 yard TD run

2. The Pats 14 play drive at the end of the 3d quarter.  This not only gave them 3 points (at the beginning of the 4th quarter) but denied our offense a chance to play with the wind at the end of the quarter.

 

Both of these lapses were crucial (though not the only significant cause) of our loss.

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, Fan in Chicago said:

Many ways to say the same story. 

 

222 yards on the ground (~160+ minus the long TD run, which counts big time)

4.9 YPR average

 

--> Lot of yards on the ground, knowing they weren't going to pass. It is never the fault of just one side of the ball, but I would place the blame 60-40 on D and O.  

 

Held them to 240yds total offense, 14 points, 6 of 9 possessions 5 plays or less. And you put the larger percentage on the Defense?

 

You guys really expect any team to hold another offense to, what, 0 yards just because they are going to run every play? Cmon.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Held them to 240yds total offense, 14 points, 6 of 9 possessions 5 plays or less. And you put the larger percentage on the Defense?

 

You guys really expect any team to hold another offense to, what, 0 yards just because they are going to run every play? Cmon.

Don’t you complain about strawmans every post lol

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

Don’t you complain about strawmans every post lol

 

Well what are you saying? I was truly asking. What would have been acceptable? 50 yards? 100 yards?

 

Is it really "every" post? Or is that like, your 3rd actual strawman in here?

 

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by DrDawkinstein

[BigDingus]

Your offense is built to pass & pass often. 

You have Josh Allen, Cole Beasley, Stefon Diggs, Dawson Knox, Gabriel Davis, Emmanuel Sanders, etc. Then with great field position & multiple redzone opportunities, come away with 10 points & lose by 4.

 

That isn't the defense's fault. You hold a team to 14 points & less than 250 total yards of offense, you did your job.

[Einstein]

19 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

BB called 3 pass plays. Looked out the window pregame and decided he wasn’t going to bother throwing the ball.  He forced the Bills to throw.  He was right.  His team won.  
 

If that punt hadn’t barely grazed that NE dudes helmet,  Bills Offense would have had no TDs. 
 

 

 

Lazy take.

 

Since were playing the what-if game.

 

- What if Diggs didn't drop a perfectly thrown TD?

- What if Breida didn't fumble the ball with no one touching him?

- What if the refs called PI in the endzone? (image below)

- What if Knox didn't drop 3 passes?

 

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Well what are you saying? What would have been acceptable? 50 yards? 100 yards?

 

Is it really "every" post? Or is that like, your 3rd actual strawman in here?

Hyperbole isn’t a strawman lol. Are you addicted to that word? 
 

Acceptable would have been not allowing a 14 play drive. Or not allowing a 64 yard rush. Either of those and we win on the backs of our “great” defense. Unfortunately, they remain the “great defense (when playing the Jets or Texans)”.

Edited December 7, 2021 by FireChans

[Matt_In_NH]

The long runs against Tenn and NE were soul crushers....I honestly believe those two plays lost those respective games....

[Chaos]

Patriots did exactly what they wanted to do last night.  The concept of running every single play was designed to control time of possession and field position, and there was no intention of scoring on every drive.  BB understands you only need to score more than the other team. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Chaos

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Held them to 240yds total offense, 14 points, 6 of 9 possessions 5 plays or less. And you put the larger percentage on the Defense?

 

You guys really expect any team to hold another offense to, what, 0 yards just because they are going to run every play? Cmon.

 

I find it more than a little ironic that you keep mentioning that 6 of 9 possessions were 5 plays or less. That includes the 3 play 69 yard TD drive that had the most important play of the game. 

 

In normal weather conditions holding a team to 240 yards and 14 points would be an exceptionally good game. In the exceptional weather conditions last night, with the opponent running on 95%+ of the plays, allowing 240 yards and 14 points (with 0 forced turnovers) is bad. 

[DrDawkinstein]

4 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Hyperbole isn’t a strawman lol. Are you addicted to that word? 
 

Acceptable would have been not allowing a 14 play drive. Or not allowing a 64 yard rush. Either of those and we win on the backs of our “great” defense. Unfortunately, they remain the “great defense (when playing the Jets or Texans)”.

 

I know but its fun to keep busting your chops since your points are so ridiculous with the high level you expect from our D, but seem to be excusing our O.

 

I'll continue to state that 240yds total offense, 14 points, 6 punts on 9 possessions with 4 3 and outs is a good/great D performance. You can keep saying it isnt. But good luck with that.

[FireChans]

Just now, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I know but its fun to keep busting your chops since your points are so ridiculous with the high level you expect from our D, but seem to be excusing our O.

 

I'll continue to state that 240yds total offense, 14 points, 6 punts on 9 possessions with 4 3 and outs is a good/great D performance. You can keep saying it isnt. But good luck with that.

Where did I excuse the offense Mr Strawman?

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

I find it more than a little ironic that you keep mentioning that 6 of 9 possessions were 5 plays or less. That includes the 3 play 69 yard TD drive that had the most important play of the game.

 

No it doesnt. That is a 7th. Which I dont count in my examples of a good performance because I am based enough in reality to know that wasnt a good performance.

 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

TD (3 plays)

FG (9 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (4 plays)

Punt (5 plays)

FG (14 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

[Mr. WEO]

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Lazy take.

 

Since were playing the what-if game.

 

- What if Diggs didn't drop a perfectly thrown TD?

- What if Breida didn't fumble the ball with no one touching him?

- What if the refs called PI in the endzone? (image below)

- What if Knox didn't drop 3 passes?

 

what if NE decided to pass more than 3 times as Buffalo was putting 8 guys in the box 65% of the time ( NE averaged 5.4 YPC against that)?

 

Meanwhile, Josh, easily the Bills best rusher, had just  6 rushing plays. 
 

BB put on a coaching clinic. 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

4 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

No it doesnt. That is a 7th. Which I dont count in my examples of a good performance because I am based enough in reality to know that wasnt a good performance.

 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

TD (3 plays)

FG (9 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (4 plays)

Punt (5 plays)

FG (14 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

 

Ouch buddy. When you're trying to twist the stats at least own up to it. When you say 5 plays or less* that would mean the 5 play Punt drive wouldn't count. 

 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

TD (3 plays)

FG (9 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (4 plays)

Punt (5 plays)

FG (14 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

 

 

*fewer

 

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:

 

Ouch buddy. When you're trying to twist the stats at least own up to it. When you say 5 plays or less* that would mean the 5 play Punt drive wouldn't count. 

 

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

TD (3 plays)

FG (9 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

Punt (4 plays)

Punt (5 plays)

FG (14 plays)

Punt (3 plays)

 

 

*fewer

 

 

 

 

I cant waste my time replying to such idiocy. I said "5 plays or less" not "Less than 5 plays". Cmon dude. Your first post was wrong, just own it.

 

 

(Good call on using 'fewer' tho)

[The Frankish Reich]

17 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Patriots did exactly what they wanted to do last night.  The concept of running every single play was designed to control time of possession and field position, and there was no intention of scoring on every drive.  BB understands you only need to score more than the other team. 

Exactly. No need to try to put up 30 points, or even 20. Just keep grinding it out and let the other guys make mistakes.

[Big Turk]

3 hours ago, UB2SF said:

Had the same thought, Doc -- they couldn't stop "a" run (the 64 yard TD), not "the" run (the rushing attack). I woke up today feeling mad about missed opportunities on offense more than defense.

 

I mean what did they have like 9 or 10 TFLs? I thought other than that one big run and a couple of other 10-15 yard ones they did pretty well. If they were getting run over the Pats would have scored more than a single touchdown and had more than 1 trip to the red zone.

 

Getting run over is what happened against the Colts. This wasn't that. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Big Turk

[appoo]

1 hour ago, JohnBonhamRocks said:

Yes, which is why my other post started by saying most of my gripes are with the offense. 
 

Just don’t think the defense had a great game either. Solid point total for a normal game. But not for a game where NE* almost exclusively ran and showed no sign of a passing threat. 

 

That was a MASSIVE OLine they played, and a very well coached OLine. As OP stated the defense was generally successful. 

 

Belichak ***** sucked last night, and all the praise is BS. 

 

Pats didn't win, a superior team shot itself to death

Edited December 7, 2021 by appoo

[Einstein]

12 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

what if NE decided to pass more than 3 times as Buffalo was putting 8 guys in the box 65% of the time ( NE averaged 5.4 YPC against that)?

 

Meanwhile, Josh, easily the Bills best rusher, had just  6 rushing plays. 
 

BB put on a coaching clinic. 

 

What if Josh decided to throw to an open Beasley?

Again, these are all "what-ifs".

 

Belichick did nothing special. Absolutely nothing. He played scared because he knew his QB couldn't throw in that wind. Had any of  5 different things gone different for the Bills, no-one is talking about Belichick.

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

Just now, appoo said:

 

That was a MASSIVE OLine they played, and a very well coached OLine. As OP stated they were generally successful. 

 

Belichak ***** sucked last night, and all the praise is BS. 

 

Pats didn't win, a superior team shot itself to death

 

One of my favorite Belichick quotes is "More NFL games are lost than won". And that was the case last night as well.

[Big Turk]

2 minutes ago, appoo said:

 

That was a MASSIVE OLine they played, and a very well coached OLine. As OP stated the defense was generally successful. 

 

Belichak ***** sucked last night, and all the praise is BS. 

 

Pats didn't win, a superior team shot itself to death

 

Plus they played most snaps with a 6th OL in there.

[FireChans]

13 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

what if NE decided to pass more than 3 times as Buffalo was putting 8 guys in the box 65% of the time ( NE averaged 5.4 YPC against that)?

 

Meanwhile, Josh, easily the Bills best rusher, had just  6 rushing plays. 
 

BB put on a coaching clinic. 

Basically the Pats executed their entire gameplan on offense and defense last night and they won. Their gameplan wasn’t to drop 40 points on us. They did everything they wanted to do, while our offense and defense didn’t stop them.

[appoo]

At the end of the day the Bills had not one, but TWO chances to win this game on their own terms. 

 

That basically means your game plan failed. 

If anything, I'm coming around to the idea that the Bills need to move on from Daboll. Offense is a bit too finesse. Everything should be tailored to maximizing Allen's abilities, and that's going to allowing him to play off of play action, giving him more 1v1s, and that happens with a running game and 2-3 established receiving threats. 

 

Offense should be base 11, 12, and 22, and should be a lot more even between run and pass with personnel geared towards that. 

[Saint Doug]

This is how it works. When their offense is on the field, our offense cannot be on the field scoring points. NE ran it down our throats, almost having 2 100-yard rushers. They didn’t throw at all. This translated to the Cheatriots being on the field for an extra 3 minutes. Our average TOP this year is 30:48. Last night, it was 27:59. That’s basically 1 less drive or chance to score. 
 

Lastly, 8 points were scored last night directly due to our inability to stop the run. 

[dpberr]

1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

TOP difference was more because our lack of execution, those stats dont tell the story and are a misleading stat for last nights game.  They run the ball every play, clocks keeps ticking TOP keeps climbing DESPITE actual production.  They punted 6 times and 5 or fewer plays on 7 of their 9 drives.  We were throwing a lot and clock stops on incompletions which makes the TOP looks worse than it was for our defense.  

 

End of the day, offensive gameplan and execution, penalties. drops were the culprit here.   

Don't disagree the offense shoulders a lot of blame, but I think the leaky defense shares some too.  That was no top shelf defensive coaching effort last night, IMO.

 

 

 

 

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

This is how it works. When their offense is on the field, our offense cannot be on the field scoring points. NE ran it down our throats, almost having 2 100-yard rushers. They didn’t throw at all. This translated to the Cheatriots being on the field for an extra 3 minutes. Our average TOP this year is 30:48. Last night, it was 27:59. That’s basically 1 less drive or chance to score. 
 

Lastly, 8 points were scored last night directly due to our inability to stop the run. 

 

Picking nits, but 1:55 of that 3min difference was their last possession of killing the clock, not actual game time. And the Bills had 10 possessions to the Pat's 9. Coulda been better, dont get me wrong, but not as bad as it looks on paper.