Democracy’s Fiery Ordeal: The War in Ukraine 🇺🇦

[Big Blitz]

13 minutes ago, Coffeesforclosers said:

 

I get it.  You're very conservative, and very anti-war.  I'd love to know why, obviously you don't have to explain if you don't want to.

 

 

I'm not against war.  I don't trust the people in charge.  I don't trust them at all.  They shouldn't even be there.  

 

This shouldn't be happening and the voters here better get their s**t together and figure out why.  How after Covid we all aren't on the same page after lie after lie after lie after ruining kids lives (oh but they're fine) is beyond me.  

 

I live among too many people that think we're to blame for the evils of the world.  I cannot relate to that.  As if the other nations of the world are good, pure, and meant no harm to anyone.  They weren't corrupt.  They meant no one any harm ever.  No, we've been the bad guy.  

 

I'm all for learning from what we've done wrong - but that's different then thinking you're the bad guy.  That our system is racist and sucks.

 

This is not the kind of people let alone having them in charge I want my children to grow up in.  We're supposed to leave this place better off after we're done here for them.  For 2 years I've seen things I'm not going to say are stunning bc I saw it coming in 2008, but completely disheartened by how many buy the crap sold to them.  

Edited February 24, 2022 by Big Blitz

[Coffeesforclosers]

17 minutes ago, B-Man said:

Best plan for U.S. at this point 

 

 

 

That guys coming in hot with a Nick Wright level take.  Obviously I'd love to see the Russian invasion collapse into a bloody fireball but that's not likely.  This is the next best thing, and I think what everyone is expecting us to do anyway.  That's why Russia is committed to capturing or assassinating as much of Ukraine's leadership as possible.

[sherpa]

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

ok 

What targets were off limits? 

 

I know there were, but wasn't that because of the vast human suffering hitting them would cost? 

 

Haiphong Harbor for one.

That was the location where anti air defense weapons were being imported from the Soviet Union.

Hanoi as well.

There was a ten mile no entry limit, and a thirty mile circumference that had to be approved by Johnson.

Many SAM sites were off limits unless they actively shot SAMS.

Further, target lists down to specific attack headings were sent from Washington, and these were struck over and over.

Operation "Rolling Thunder," schemed and controlled from Washington, was known to carrier aviators as Rolling Blunder.

All McNamara cared about was sortie counts, which had to be reported, not actual tactical success.

 

[Big Blitz]

 

 

[Motorin']

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

 

https://kyivindependent.com/uncategorized/putin-declares-war-on-ukraine/

 

 

[John Adams]

Nice thread.

 

Putin starts a war. Posters here attack the president.

 

Irv is right. PPP is a mess.

[aristocrat]

53 minutes ago, John Adams said:

Nice thread.

 

Putin starts a war. Posters here attack the president.

 

Irv is right. PPP is a mess.

Have a healthy respect for your enemies.  Biden walking around for years saying he’s gonna stand up to Russia and they don’t want him in charge seems to have backfired.  Now we have to pray Russia only wants Ukraine. 

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, John Adams said:

Nice thread.

 

Putin starts a war. Posters here attack the president.

 

 

 

I haven't seen anyone attack the CDC or its Vice President Science over this.

 

 

 

It would be just as insane as attacking the president over not being able to stop an aersolized virus man made in China.

 

The result of which led to that actual president who didn't see this type of foreign aggression under his watch, removed from office.  

 

This situation here with Russia is totally out of our control.  Nothing could have been done.  

 

And no one would be stupid enough to tell you they would

 

 

[TH3]

5 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

I haven't seen anyone attack the CDC or its Vice President Science over this.

 

 

 

It would be just as insane as attacking the president over not being able to stop an aersolized virus man made in China.

 

The result of which led to that actual president who didn't see this type of foreign aggression under his watch, removed from office.  

 

This situation here with Russia is totally out of our control.  Nothing could have been done.  

 

And no one would be stupid enough to tell you they would

 

 

You do understand how paranoid and unhinged you are right? 

[BillsFanNC]

 

[Niagara Bill]

Poland is the actual goal IMHO. 

what NATO must decide is, where is the line? And they need to decide now.

The wild card is the US China relationship that has been going downhill for years and destroyed by trump and trashed by Biden. 

Ignoring the Olympics was nuts.

 

[Tiberius]

6 hours ago, sherpa said:

 

Haiphong Harbor for one.

That was the location where anti air defense weapons were being imported from the Soviet Union.

Hanoi as well.

There was a ten mile no entry limit, and a thirty mile circumference that had to be approved by Johnson.

Many SAM sites were off limits unless they actively shot SAMS.

Further, target lists down to specific attack headings were sent from Washington, and these were struck over and over.

Operation "Rolling Thunder," schemed and controlled from Washington, was known to carrier aviators as Rolling Blunder.

All McNamara cared about was sortie counts, which had to be reported, not actual tactical success.

 

Ya, they didn’t want an expanded war with China, sort of like you don’t want WW3 now. And on the tactical level there were few off limits, air strikes were called in with little thought of collateral damage. 

That whole war was a blunder 

[Westside]

2 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Ya, they didn’t want an expanded war with China, sort of like you don’t want WW3 now. And on the tactical level there were few off limits, air strikes were called in with little thought of collateral damage. 

Do you want WW3?

[Tiberius]

10 minutes ago, Westside said:

Do you want WW3?

Should we disarm? 

[sherpa]

31 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Ya, they didn’t want an expanded war with China, sort of like you don’t want WW3 now. And on the tactical level there were few off limits, air strikes were called in with little thought of collateral damage. 

That whole war was a blunder 

 

There's always a "reason," however ill conceived, negligent and just plain stupid.

 

It was a massive Washington blunder that cost thousands of US lives.

The NVA was getting 80% of its war making material through Haiphong Harbor.

Without disturbing Soviet ships, those supplies could have been easily interdicted once they were off loaded, but US forces were not to fly north of the 20th parallel, which included Hanoi and Haiphong.

The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs had pleaded for years to get this restriction removed.

Finally in 1972 they mined the harbor and stopped the shipping. 

 

It was a disastrously managed war, and the US fought it with its hands tied for, yet another, regime that could not care less and failed at the first opportunity.

 

The point is that there is little that can be done for the Ukraine if the people there don't aggressively resist this Russian punk.

That is where turning this thing around starts, just as id did for the Soviets in Afghanistan.

 

Late addition.

If you think air strikes were called in with little though of collateral damage, per your claim, you are grossly misinformed.

Edited February 24, 2022 by sherpa

[Tiberius]

"We will of course do everything to keep our country safe," says Boris Johnson.

We’re joined in our outrage with allies and friends around the world, he adds, saying the UK will work with them for however long it takes to ensure Ukraine's independence and sovereignty is restored.

This "act of wanton and reckless aggression" is an attack on democracy and freedom in eastern Europe and throughout the world, he continues.

He ends by saying this crisis is about the right of a country to choose their own future and that is a right the UK will always defend.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-60454795

 

Yup, this is an attack on democracy everywhere. That explains the positive reaction of some

2 minutes ago, sherpa said:

 

There's always a "reason," however ill conceived, negligent and just plain stupid.

 

It was a massive Washington blunder that cost thousands of US lives.

The NVA was getting 80% of its war making material through Haiphong Harbor.

Without disturbing Soviet ships, those supplies could have been easily interdicted once they were off loaded, but US forces were not to fly north of the 20th parallel, which included Hanoi and Haiphong.

The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs had pleaded for years to get this restriction removed.

Finally in 1972 they mined the harbor and stopped the shipping. 

 

It was a disastrously managed war, and the US fought it with its hands tied for, yet another, regime that could not care less and failed at the first opportunity.

 

The point is that there is little that can be done for the Ukraine if the people there don't aggressively resist this Russian punk.

That is where turning this thing around starts, just as id did for the Soviets in Afghanistan.

100% agree there 

[Tiberius]

——

 

Hope this is true 

 

https://www.indiatoday.in/world/russia-ukraine-war/video/russian-planes-helicopter-shot-down-claims-ukraine-1917222-2022-02-24

 

Shot down Russian aircraft 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

7 hours ago, B-Man said:

Best plan for U.S. at this point 

 

 

This should have started in March when the build up started instead of giving them are year to organize their war machine 

[Tiberius]

Yup, a war on democracy everywhere 

 

In an interview with Fox News, former president Donald Trump said Putin had undertaken the military maneuver “because of a rigged election” in the United States.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

53 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

Poland is the actual goal IMHO. 

what NATO must decide is, where is the line? And they need to decide now.

The wild card is the US China relationship that has been going downhill for years and destroyed by trump and trashed by Biden. 

Ignoring the Olympics was nuts.

 

Why Poland? Putin has been pretty open about re establishment of the USSR. 

[BillStime]

Thank you Trump voters

[Tiberius]

People being terrorized and hiding in bomb shelters in a modern free country. Putin is the new Hitler. Here’s hoping this is a wake up call for the free world

[LeviF]

Yeah, causing people to be terrorized and hide in bomb shelters is reserved strictly for those backwards nations with a different form of government. 

[BillStime]

7 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

People being terrorized and hiding in bomb shelters in a modern free country. Putin is the new Hitler. Here’s hoping this is a wake up call for the free world

Putin is a “genius”

 

”very savvy”

 

"So Putin is now saying, 'It's independent,' a large section of Ukraine. I said, 'How smart is that?' And he's going to go in and be a peacekeeper. “

 

[Doc]

40 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Why Poland? Putin has been pretty open about re establishment of the USSR. 

 

Talking about stray missiles going into Poland and accidentally involving NATO.

 

Congrats Dems, your shitshow of a President just sunk to a new low level.

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Putin is a “genius”

 

”very savvy”

 

"So Putin is now saying, 'It's independent,' a large section of Ukraine. I said, 'How smart is that?' And he's going to go in and be a peacekeeper. “

 

That’s the guy the GOP is trying to make president again. 

4 minutes ago, LeviF said:

Yeah, causing people to be terrorized and hide in bomb shelters is reserved strictly for those backwards nations with a different form of government. 

You think 2003 paved the way for this? 

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

Talking about stray missiles going into Poland and accidentally involving NATO.

 

Congrats Dems, your shitshow of a President just sunk to a new low level.

Could be a cyber attack bleeds into Polish infrastructure 

 

Are you against the economic warfare of sanctions? 

[LeviF]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

That’s the guy the GOP is trying to make president again. 

You think 2003 paved the way for this? 

 

I think the regime in the United States hasn't a leg to stand on when trying to speak on matters of national sovereignty. 

[Tiberius]

3 minutes ago, LeviF said:

 

I think the regime in the United States hasn't a leg to stand on when trying to speak on matters of national sovereignty. 

We are morally equivalent to Putin’s dictatorship? You would welcome regime change here? 

[LeviF]

Just now, Tiberius said:

We are morally equivalent to Putin’s dictatorship? You would welcome regime change here? 

 

Moral judgments on most types of governments in a vacuum is a fool's errand.

 

I'm not sure you and I speak about the same things when we say "regime" so I'll decline to answer that question.

[Max Fischer]

1 minute ago, LeviF said:

 

Moral judgments on most types of governments in a vacuum is a fool's errand.

 

I'm not sure you and I speak about the same things when we say "regime" so I'll decline to answer that question.

 

"Decline to answer" = "Cannot answer without sounding like a Putin stooge"

[Tiberius]

2 minutes ago, LeviF said:

 

Moral judgments on most types of governments in a vacuum is a fool's errand.

 

I'm not sure you and I speak about the same things when we say "regime" so I'll decline to answer that question.

Good to know how you people think. 

[LeviF]

1 minute ago, Max Fischer said:

 

"Decline to answer" = "Cannot answer without sounding like a Putin stooge"

 

Yeah, my track record certainly indicates that I'm overly fond of ex-spooks leftover from a communist kakistocracy.

 

***** off. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

6 minutes ago, LeviF said:

 

Moral judgments on most types of governments in a vacuum is a fool's errand.

 

I'm not sure you and I speak about the same things when we say "regime" so I'll decline to answer that question.

He's trying to de-legitimize your opinion by implying you're advocating radical changes to our system of government.  Like stacking the Supreme Court with more politically compliant judges or changing the rules of order in the Senate like abolishing the filibuster rules, and eliminating the Parliamentarian role.  Whereas I suspect your suggesting citizens utilize the democratic process to vote out the slimmest of slim Congressional majority these idiots hold in the November 2022 mid-terms.

Edited February 24, 2022 by All_Pro_Bills
typos

[Tiberius]

Vindman on MSNBC really saying some optimistic points that this is not going well for Russians. Hope our Javelin missiles are smiting the Russian armor 

3 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

He's trying to de-legitimize your opinion by implying you're advocating radical changes to our system of government.  Like stacking the Supreme Court with more politically compliant judges or changes the rules of order in the Senate like abolishing the filibuster rules, and eliminating the Parliamentarian role.  Whereas I suspect your suggesting citizens utilize the democratic process to vote out the slimmest of slim Congressional majority these idiots hold in the November 2022 mid-terms.

Or trying to overthrow an election his side lost 

[frostbitmic]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Yup, a war on democracy everywhere 

 

In an interview with Fox News, former president Donald Trump said Putin had undertaken the military maneuver “because of a rigged election” in the United States.

Comrade Drumpf is insane, if he was still president he'd probably send troops to help Putin with his invasion.

[Irv]

We desperately need a President who is a leader.  Instead we have a demented weak old fool who is an afterthought of Putin.  What a ***** mess.  

[Tiberius]

6 minutes ago, Irv said:

We desperately need a President who is a leader.  Instead we have a demented weak old fool who is an afterthought of Putin.  What a ***** mess.  

Maybe you guys should nominate someone that can win an election fairly 

[Doc]

38 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Vindman on MSNBC really saying some optimistic points that this is not going well for Russians. Hope our Javelin missiles are smiting the Russian armor 

 

Did he overhear a phone call...

 

38 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Or trying to overthrow an election his side lost 

 

Yup.  Like during Trump's Presidency.

[Chef Jim]

2 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Yup, this is an attack on democracy everywhere. That explains the positive reaction of some

 

Positive reactions??  You’re ***** delusional. 

[Motorin']

2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Why Poland? Putin has been pretty open about re establishment of the USSR. 

 

Or the goal is much bigger, to fracture the US. Are Russian bots "on both sides" trying to spark a civil war yet? Cause that's what Russian bots do, pose as left leaning and right leaning people and steer the most incendiary conversations they can. 

 

As real people, we need to stop mimicking that behavior. If you're a Republican and looking to take back both houses in the fall, have at it. Just please don't treat your fellow American like the enemy... And vice versa...

Edited February 24, 2022 by Motorin'