Josh Allen 2022 season verdict... OC & DC let him down: 64.5% comp %, 51 TDs, 18 TOs, 97.9 Passer Rating, 313 YPG (offseason assessments page 46 on)

[transplantbillsfan]

7 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

How far are you willing to take this logic? Let's say the pass was tipped and bounced off seven different players before hitting Diggs in the arm as he was turning his head to locate the ball. Would it have been a drop then?  

 

Maybe it wasn't a great idea to throw a 60 yard bomb in howling wind in the first place. 

 

I don't have to take logic far at all.  Diggs was turned around and looking at that ball for a significant enough amount of time that he should have caught it.

 

You're going in a ridiculous direction at this point.  My guess is you'll blame Knox's 2 drops on Allen because Allen threw the ball too hard 

[buffaloboyinATL]

The wind game did him no favors. The stats don’t tell the story of how good he was given the weather conditions.  If you compare his performance to Mac Jones in the same conditions, his numbers look phenomenal.

[MPT]

4 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

Umm he didn’t drop it, it was actually broken up by Phillips.  (It was obvious when they showed the closeup) Also he didn’t string arm the Pat defender he back tracked faster and he missed him..  also Knox was  covered.

 

He definitely stiff armed the defender. You can watch the helmet move sideways and he gets pushed away from the tackle. Just because Josh was moving backwards doesn't make it not a stiff arm. 

 

It was good coverage and a good breakup by Phillips but you have to expect your TE who is twice his size to muscle his way to that catch.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

15 minutes ago, VW82 said:

 

Maybe it wasn't a great idea to throw a 60 yard bomb in howling wind in the first place. 

yeah because the rest of our offense was just humming a long so well. 
 

what are you talking about? Bills damn near won the game on that play. And you are criticizing one of two deep balls they threw on the night? If I’m not mistaken bills were 1/2 on pass attempts over 25 yards? Nearly 2/2 with a TD. It’s not like the game plan was calling plays with a lot of deep shots. And Allen was actually money when he did throw them.

 

 

 

 

[PatsFanNH]

7 minutes ago, MPT said:

 

 

 

It was good coverage and a good breakup by Phillips but you have to expect your TE who is twice his size to muscle his way to that catch.

I was shocked there wasn’t a flag for him pushing off Phillips to try get open, Phillips did a good job to stay close and knock it away.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

This MVP thing is still a serious idea? c'mon...

 

Who ya got ahead of him?

[Jrb1979]

3 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Who ya got ahead of him?

I have Brady, Taylor and a case could be made for Herbert as well. 

[transplantbillsfan]

35 minutes ago, Jrb1979 said:

I have Brady, Taylor and a case could be made for Herbert as well. 

 

And none of those guys can objectively be considered so far ahead of Allen that Allen can't leapfrog them in the next 2-3 games.

 

If we beat the Bucs on Sunday on Allen’s arm, he jumps right back to the front of this conversation with Brady.

Edited December 9, 2021 by transplantbillsfan

[cisco2403]

4 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

I have Brady, Taylor and a case could be made for Herbert as well. 

Brady and Taylor, yes. Herbert no. I watch a lot of Herbert’s games (mainly because I have him and Josh as my FFL quarterbacks) and Herbert’s numbers are a bit inflated due to him getting garbage time stats in some blowouts where his team has no ***** at winning and the other team is just playing a prevent or backups. 
 

What is hurting Josh a bit in the stats are that he has lost a good amount of playing time due to several blowouts. 

[gordong]

Love Josh but he's not getting MVP this year....not with this record.

[Doc]

6 hours ago, Jrb1979 said:

I have Brady, Taylor and a case could be made for Herbert as well. 

 

Josh has nowhere near the OL Brady does and that helps their running game.  Herbert has had some pretty bad games.  Taylor I could see.

[BuffaloBillyG]

I know this will be an unpopular opinion around these parts...however looking objectively at it...Tom Brady is the MVP this year and it's not even CLOSE.

 

6 games tossing for over 300 (over 400 in 2 of those). 6 games with 4+ TD passes in a game (5 in 2 of those) while leading the team to a 9-3 record. All at the ripe age of 44. 

 

Yes, he has a good line and some great weapons. He has also been without his 2 favorite targets (Gronk and Brown) for long stretches of time. 

 

At this point in the season I believe Josh Allen is closer to not receiving a single MVP vote then he is winning it. This is not to say he's playing bad. However team record and the inability to pull off close games on a national stage (Tenn, NE) will absolutely hurt him in voters eyes. The would have to be almost flawless headed down the stretch to climb back into it. 

Edited December 9, 2021 by No Place To Hyde

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, No Place To Hyde said:

I know this will be an unpopular opinion around these parts...however looking objectively at it...Tom Brady is the MVP this year and it's not even CLOSE.

 

6 games tossing for over 300 (over 400 in 2 of those). 6 games with 4+ TD passes in a game (5 in 2 of those) while leading the team to a 9-3 record. All at the ripe age of 44. 

 

Yes, he has a good line and some great weapons. He has also been without his 2 favorite targets (Gronk and Brown) for long stretches of time. 

 

At this point in the season I believe Josh Allen is closer to not receiving a single MVP vote then he is winning it. This is not to say he's playing bad. However team record and the inability to pull off close games on a national stage (Tenn, NE) will absolutely hurt him in voters eyes. The would have to be almost flawless headed down the stretch to climb back into it. 

I agree with all of this. Bills vs. Bucs is a huge game for both Allen and Brady. Bucs win and Brady pretty much locks up the MVP over everyone. Not just Allen. Allen and the Bills win and it’s still an open race with like 6 guys all in the running still.

 

You are correct the Bills and Allen would have to be flawless. Especially in the loss column. Both the Bills and Allen were last year in the final 5 games but this Sunday will be the Bills biggest challenge to date. But somehow win that one and the odds of winning out could jump to 50% ad it basically will come down to the second Pats game.

[Logic]

Tom Brady is winning MVP in a runaway at this point.

He'd be my current choice for MVP for both his statistical production AND for what the MVP award SHOULD mean (player most valuable to his team). Take Brady away, and that Tampa Bay roster, even as wildly talented and filled with great players as it is, wouldn't make the playoffs. Blaine Gabbert? Kyle Trask? Right.

Mind you, this pains me to say, because I'd rather punch myself in the face than say anything nice about that *****. 

[Scott7975]

I think Josh deserves to be in the talks but Brady, at least at this point, should win it.  The fact is he is playing at a top level and is 500 years old.

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, gordong said:

Love Josh but he's not getting MVP this year....not with this record.

 

What record? 5 losses?  Best record in the NFL is the Cardinals and Kyler Murray ain't winning MVP because of missed games and the team still winning.

 

Bills beat Bucs this weekend and Josh is 1 loss behind Brady.

 

You're right... if we have this record at the end of the year, Josh won't win.  Fortunately there are still 5 games.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

When Tom Brady wipes the Bills D all over the place 

 

The Brady MVP would be 🔒  up 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

19 hours ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

The wind game did him no favors. The stats don’t tell the story of how good he was given the weather conditions.  If you compare his performance to Mac Jones in the same conditions, his numbers look phenomenal.

The number for the week was:

 

Mac….1-0

Allen…. 0-1

 

Mac looks way better  

[JoPoy88]

He’s like 4th in current odds, which is exactly where he should be imo. If they win out these last 5 games, Allen should walk away with it. 

[VW82]

19 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I don't have to take logic far at all.  Diggs was turned around and looking at that ball for a significant enough amount of time that he should have caught it.

 

You're going in a ridiculous direction at this point.  My guess is you'll blame Knox's 2 drops on Allen because Allen threw the ball too hard 

I'm not blaming Allen. I'm blaming the coaching staff for their game plan and play calling. 

 

Knox did have a bad drop on that 3rd and 19. The one in the end zone wasn't a drop - it was a pass break up. The Beasley "drop" involved him laying out for the ball near the sideline. And yes, when Josh has to throw it 100mph in those conditions that's surely part of the reason those catches don't get made. 

 

If you decide to drive the green on a par 4 on a day with howling wind and rain and hit the greatest shot of your life but it bounces off a sprinkler head and goes into the water you don't sit there and blame the sprinkler head. You blame the bad decision to go for it in the first place.  

[VW82]

19 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

yeah because the rest of our offense was just humming a long so well. 
 

what are you talking about? Bills damn near won the game on that play. And you are criticizing one of two deep balls they threw on the night? If I’m not mistaken bills were 1/2 on pass attempts over 25 yards? Nearly 2/2 with a TD. It’s not like the game plan was calling plays with a lot of deep shots. And Allen was actually money when he did throw them.

 

We only had one 60 yard, hail mary bomb that I can recall. 

[LABILLBACKER]

7 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said:

He’s like 4th in current odds, which is exactly where he should be imo. If they win out these last 5 games, Allen should walk away with it. 

Go 4-1 and have decent games and it will come down to Josh and Goat. Marsha will probably win it based on lifetime achievement award. Josh runner up 2 years in a row.

[buffaloboyinATL]

27 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

The number for the week was:

 

Mac….1-0

Allen…. 0-1

 

Mac looks way better  

Yes, that was one hell of a pretty hand off.  I don't agree with this even a little.  Allen looked much better than Mac Jones.  The Patriots* offense looked better than us, because we couldn't stop the run, and they won, but if you compare the 2 QB's in a vacuum (or in this case, a wind tunnel) , Allen looked better than Jones. 

 

Besides this, my point was really that the weather did Allen stats no favors, because when you look at the season numbers in total, there is no footnote that says he was relatively effective in 50MPH+ winds.  

[Doc]

4 minutes ago, buffaloboyinATL said:

Yes, that was one hell of a pretty hand off.  I don't agree with this even a little.  Allen looked much better than Mac Jones.  The Patriots* offense looked better than us, because we couldn't stop the run, and they won, but if you compare the 2 QB's in a vacuum (or in this case, a wind tunnel) , Allen looked better than Jones. 

 

Besides this, my point was really that the weather did Allen stats no favors, because when you look at the season numbers in total, there is no footnote that says he was relatively effective in 50MPH+ winds.  

 

It was clearly sarcasm.  

 

And put Josh on Tampa's offense and he's running away with the MVP.

[78thealltimegreat]

20 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

Umm he didn’t drop it, it was actually broken up by Phillips.  (It was obvious when they showed the closeup) Also he didn’t string arm the Pat defender he back tracked faster and he missed him..  also Knox was  covered.

Knox made zero attempt at the ball he’s 6’4 the DB is 5’10 

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

The number for the week was:

 

Mac….1-0

Allen…. 0-1

 

Mac looks way better  

Yeh but you’ve been like this since Allen was drafted and where on “the other Josh” bandwagon…heck if this team had Rosen they’d be the worst team in football 

Edited December 9, 2021 by 78thealltimegreat

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

He currently has 5 losses, and likely 3 more coming.

 

Time to move on from this notion.

 

Likely?

 

You're saying this team will likely lose more games than they win to end the year.

 

That's a pretty damn big IF that you're projecting onto a team that's been inconsistent but still pretty clearly is capable of winning a game against just about anybody.

 

Maybe it's time for you to take a break from this thread.  It's clearly distressing you.

Edited December 9, 2021 by transplantbillsfan

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

8 minutes ago, 78thealltimegreat said:

Knox made zero attempt at the ball he’s 6’4 the DB is 5’10 

Yeh but you’ve been like this since Allen was drafted and where on “the other Josh” bandwagon…heck if this team had Rosen they’d be the worst team in football 

Where again??? Who’s talking about Rosen?

 

My point is winning is the only stat that matters. Josh did do some amazing things at times, some very poor things at times and ultimately despite plenty of opportunities was unable to win. And yeah I expect it from him now. There is no hiding from this contract he signed. He needs to be the best in the league, not the best on his offensive unit on a given night. 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, VW82 said:

I'm not blaming Allen. I'm blaming the coaching staff for their game plan and play calling. 

 

Knox did have a bad drop on that 3rd and 19. The one in the end zone wasn't a drop - it was a pass break up. The Beasley "drop" involved him laying out for the ball near the sideline. And yes, when Josh has to throw it 100mph in those conditions that's surely part of the reason those catches don't get made. 

 

If you decide to drive the green on a par 4 on a day with howling wind and rain and hit the greatest shot of your life but it bounces off a sprinkler head and goes into the water you don't sit there and blame the sprinkler head. You blame the bad decision to go for it in the first place.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

The number for the week was:

 

Mac….1-0

Allen…. 0-1

 

Mac looks way better  

 

Very nice troll post.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Very nice troll post.

Really not… results matter. 
 

im happy for anyone in the process of booking their tickets to the moral victory Super Bowl to explain how this season is anything other than on the brink of utter disappointment… and the highest paid player on the team by a lot owns part of that too. 

[PatsFanNH]

42 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Where again??? Who’s talking about Rosen?

 

My point is winning is the only stat that matters. Josh did do some amazing things at times, some very poor things at times and ultimately despite plenty of opportunities was unable to win. And yeah I expect it from him now. There is no hiding from this contract he signed. He needs to be the best in the league, not the best on his offensive unit on a given night. 

He isn’t the best in the league, this year Brady and the Cardinals WB (name escapes me) have been the top two.. he is top 3 but top 4 when Mahomes is playing like Mahomes. 
 

Monday wasn’t on Allen, that was definitely on drops by receivers and a pretty meh game plan for 3 qrtrs.. (why wouldn’t you go heavy pass WITH the wind in the 3rd?)

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

10 minutes ago, PatsFanNH said:

He isn’t the best in the league, this year Brady and the Cardinals WB (name escapes me) have been the top two.. he is top 3 but top 4 when Mahomes is playing like Mahomes. 
 

Monday wasn’t on Allen, that was definitely on drops by receivers and a pretty meh game plan for 3 qrtrs.. (why wouldn’t you go heavy pass WITH the wind in the 3rd?)

 

They did. 3 called runs out of 11 Q3 plays. 2/7 completions and one scramble on 8 passing plays. 4 minutes of possession. 
 

 

[transplantbillsfan]

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

You don't see that they are in a tailspin? McDermott is being exposed.

 

Tailspin?

 

Stop being ridiculous. We're in a win one lose one pattern. We just lost one after utterly dominating another team which was after losing one which was after utterly dominating another team which was after...

 

well... you get it.

 

5 games left we're due 3 more wins by the logic of your tailspin.

 

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

 

Regardless, QB's that win MVP are usually not from "in the hunt" teams.

 

Who says we'll be "in the hunt" at the end of the year? The team with the most wins this year so far won multiple games without their supposed MVP. After them the Bills are 2 games within every team.

 

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

 

Already too many bad losses by the Bills. They'd have to go 5-0 the rest of the way and Allen would need monster numbers these last 5 games AND Brady would have to have many poor outings. Just not happening.

 

4-1 would do it

1 hour ago, Gene1973 said:

Disagree. I would say some fans can't see reality smacking them in the face.

 

What reality? 

[Doc]

7 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

You don't see that they are in a tailspin? McDermott is being exposed.

 

Regardless, QB's that win MVP are usually not from "in the hunt" teams.

 

Already too many bad losses by the Bills. They'd have to go 5-0 the rest of the way and Allen would need monster numbers these last 5 games AND Brady would have to have many poor outings. Just not happening.

 

Silly.  Many of the teams vying for playoff spots will lose games/have to play one another.  The Cheaters lose to the Colts next weekend and the division is right there.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

12 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

Has a QB with 5-7 losses ever won MVP? Something tells me no. But I have not done the reasearch.

 

I suspect non-QB's can win the award with that many losses, but not QB.

No reason to research beyond five losses. There’s no way he’ll win it if the bills don’t win out. Win out and he still got a chance.

 

Part of the equation is that the bills and Allen would have to end up with a number one seed in the AFC. That’s not happening if the bills don’t win out.

 

He’s obviously not a shoe in if the bills win out and have the number one seed but it does leave the door open.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Sammy Watkins' Rib

[Mr. K]

The only way Allen wins it at this point is winning out the season averaging 3-4 tds with a limited amount of turnovers. 

[transplantbillsfan]

6 hours ago, Gene1973 said:

Has a QB with 5-7 losses ever won MVP? Something tells me no. But I have not done the reasearch.

 

I suspect non-QB's can win the award with that many losses, but not QB.

 

Matt Ryan won it in 2016 on an 11-5 Atlanta team.

 

If Buffalo loses 2 more, he's not getting it.  With the added game this season and with general mediocrity across the NFL, he can afford to go 4-1 and still be very much in the running.

 

And contrary to what you said earlier, Brady doesn't need to fall apart.  Right now Josh has 200 fewer total yards and 6 TDs fewer than him.  They also have the same number of Turnovers.

 

He's not that far behind the GOAT right now.  And if Buffalo wins in a head to head matchup this weekend and Josh plays well, that probably goes a long way for him.

[Doc]

44 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Matt Ryan won it in 2016 on an 11-5 Atlanta team.

 

If Buffalo loses 2 more, he's not getting it.  With the added game this season and with general mediocrity across the NFL, he can afford to go 4-1 and still be very much in the running.

 

And contrary to what you said earlier, Brady doesn't need to fall apart.  Right now Josh has 200 fewer total yards and 6 TDs fewer than him.  They also have the same number of Turnovers.

 

He's not that far behind the GOAT right now.  And if Buffalo wins in a head to head matchup this weekend and Josh plays well, that probably goes a long way for him.

 

Yup.  And Brady has far better offensive talent and coaching than Josh does. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Allen was a no call on Diggs on the Bills final regulation possession away from being the leader in the MVP race.

 

But now he is officially out. Even if the Bills somehow win out and get the #1 seed I just can't see him winning over some sort of combination of Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Jonathan Taylor or Kyler Murray. Yeah it's unfair the team Brady has around him but at this point can't see him not winning. They will want to give it to him because of his age too.

[RiotAct]

Josh played phenomenally tonight.  Several great throws, took what the Bucs’ D gave him, and had a bunch of big-time runs.   Guy‘s a warrior (if there was any doubt left).

 

 

Give this guy a decent fu***ng o-line, for Chrissakes.