Texans releasing JJ Watt

[cle23]

8 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

If I'm ranking based on his SB desires:

 

1. Green Bay: The NFC sucks and the NFC North is terrible 

 

2. Tennessee:  With the Colts having no QB and the Texans total dumpster situation, they should win the South easily.  I put them here over us bc I think they can out bid us.  

 

3. Buffalo:  If Miami doesn't get Watson and Tua doesn't improve the Bills could go 6-0 in the division again.  

 

 

That should be his list unless he plays for league minimum with the Cowboys or Chiefs.    

 

Cleveland? Opposite Garrett, with an up and coming young team. I think Cleveland is just as high as Tennessee. Probably a little behind KC and Buffalo but still right there.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

15 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

Cleveland? Opposite Garrett, with an up and coming young team. I think Cleveland is just as high as Tennessee. Probably a little behind KC and Buffalo but still right there.

They have some individual talent but they're the only playoff team with a minus point differential, and that includes the 7-9 Washington Football Team. 

 

Still some hurdles for them to climb. I think they're a better offense without OBJ, that's a problem. 

Edited February 16, 2021 by Buffalo_Stampede

[BillsMafi$]

Watt seriously considering signing with Browns
 

 

 

https://www.cleveland.com/browns/2021/02/jj-watt-is-seriously-considering-the-browns-as-one-of-his-options-because-they-have-what-he-wants-sources-say.html

[HappyDays]

 

Quote

Released by the Texans on Friday, Watt is seriously considering the Browns as one of his options because they have a lot of what he wants, sources tell cleveland.com.

The two biggest things? Money and a potential Super Bowl. What’s more, they have a strong supporting cast and a positive environment. Check, check, check, and check.

 

Coming off of a frustrating 4-12 season, Watt wants to play for a Super Bowl contender, and the Browns check off that all-important box. They made it into the Final 8 last season, losing to the defending Super Bowl champion Chiefs, 22-17, in the AFC Divisional round.

Watt, 32, also wants to get paid his market value, and the Browns have the cap space to pay him. They’re 10th in the NFL with about $21.7 million in space. Watt was due to make $17.5 million in 2021, and will probably be looking for something in that ballpark.

 

Edited February 16, 2021 by HappyDays

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

[quote]Released by the Texans on Friday, Watt is seriously considering the Browns as one of his options because they have a lot of what he wants, sources tell cleveland.com.

The two biggest things? Money and a potential Super Bowl. What’s more, they have a strong supporting cast and a positive environment. Check, check, check, and check.[/quote]

 

[quote]Coming off of a frustrating 4-12 season, Watt wants to play for a Super Bowl contender, and the Browns check off that all-important box. They made it into the Final 8 last season, losing to the defending Super Bowl champion Chiefs, 22-17, in the AFC Divisional round.

Watt, 32, also wants to get paid his market value, and the Browns have the cap space to pay him. They’re 10th in the NFL with about $21.7 million in space. Watt was due to make $17.5 million in 2021, and will probably be looking for something in that ballpark.[/quote]

lol. Sure. 
 

I like want and I want him, but if he wants to piss away his last years for that fake team, by all means.

[DrDawkinstein]

2 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

lol. Sure. 
 

I like want and I want him, but if he wants to piss away his last years for that fake team, by all means.

 

I have to imagine this info is only being released to help drive up his price with the real contenders. If he seriously thinks Cleveland gives him a real chance to win a title then maybe we're seeing some early-onset CTE.

[Brennan Huff]

He’s not going to Cleveland 

[Rc2catch]

Yay another story with “sources” and no names attached. 
So Mary Kay was bored and needed some clicks today basically 

[FireChans]

17 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

Yay another story with “sources” and no names attached. 
So Mary Kay was bored and needed some clicks today basically 

Wait, do you think sports journalists attach names to their sources?

[GunnerBill]

35 minutes ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

They have some individual talent but they're the only playoff team with a minus point differential, and that includes the 7-9 Washington Football Team. 

 

Still some hurdles for them to climb. I think they're a better offense without OBJ, that's a problem. 

 

I think Bills fans underrate Cleveland the same way you think they underrate Tennessee. I took a lot of heat for saying they'd beat the Steelers but they did and they gave KC a closer game than us too (albeit with Mahomes going out). 

 

I think the AFC pecking order is:

 

1. KC

2. Buffalo

3. Baltimore / Tenn / Cleveland

4. Colts

5. Everyone else

[Hapless Bills Fan]

33 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

lol. Sure. 
I like want and I want him, but if he wants to piss away his last years for that fake team, by all means.

 

Why do you think they're a fake team?

 

They did a better job on the Chiefs than we did.  If it wasn't for an uncalled head-hunting personal foul by Sorenson at the goal line they could have made it closer.  And whether or not you agree, a lot of people see Stefanski as a very talented coach who is changing the culture and getting the most out of his guys.

 

Now from the JJ Watt POV - last year the Browns had Myles Garrett and 31 year old Olivier Vernon bookending at DE.  Garrett led the way with 12 sacks and 18 QB hits, but Vernon was right up there with 9 sacks and 16 QB hits.  That was a significant jump on his 2019 production (he only played 10 games in 2019) - but it is also a higher number than Watt has had since 2018.  And Vernon was cheaper at $11M/yr.

 

Chances are Watt, like any top player, would bet on himself to show he's an upgrade. 

 

But how do the Browns see it?  Do the Browns want Watt, or do they want to re-up Vernon who knows their system and just demonstrated what he can do as a bookend to Garrett?

 

[Rc2catch]

13 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Wait, do you think sports journalists attach names to their sources?

I think all journalists should have to attach names to a story. When opinions are told as facts it gets a little murky. 

[ngbills]

Watt to CLE would not be good for Buffalo.

 

They have a solid squad already and bring back basically everyone. They could sign Watt and still have more space available. They could also look to move OBJ and pick up even more space. Plus they have like 6 picks in the first 4 rounds of the draft. 

 

Gap was not very big between us and them and this would allow them to close it and then some. 

[whatdrought]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Why do you think they're a fake team?

 

They did a better job on the Chiefs than we did.  If it wasn't for an uncalled head-hunting personal foul by Sorenson at the goal line they could have made it closer.  And whether or not you agree, a lot of people see Stefanski as a very talented coach who is changing the culture and getting the most out of his guys.

 

Now from the JJ Watt POV - last year the Browns had Myles Garrett and 31 year old Olivier Vernon bookending at DE.  Garrett led the way with 12 sacks and 18 QB hits, but Vernon was right up there with 9 sacks and 16 QB hits.  That was a significant jump on his 2019 production (he only played 10 games in 2019) - but it is also a higher number than Watt has had since 2018.  And Vernon was cheaper at $11M/yr.

 

Chances are Watt, like any top player, would bet on himself to show he's an upgrade. 

 

But how do the Browns see it?  Do the Browns want Watt, or do they want to re-up Vernon who knows their system and just demonstrated what he can do as a bookend to Garrett?

 

 

They had one of the lowest strength of schedules, they got blown out by two division rivals at various points, and they struggled consistently throughout the season to win games against mediocre competition. 
 

Their QB is limited, and their defense has several holes. 
 

If anything, they’re the 2019 Bills, with a worse defense. 
 

Not to say they cant take a step, but they’re overrated and they were very uninspiring in the playoffs- it took a Pit implosion for them to win that, and then they lost to the chiefs backup QB on one of the worst coaching decisions I’ve ever seen. 
 

They have talent, but they’re clearly in the second tier of the AFC. 

[FireChans]

9 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I think all journalists should have to attach names to a story. When opinions are told as facts it gets a little murky. 

And once they do that, they never get told anything again.

 

You see the problem?

[cle23]

14 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Why do you think they're a fake team?

 

They did a better job on the Chiefs than we did.  If it wasn't for an uncalled head-hunting personal foul by Sorenson at the goal line they could have made it closer.  And whether or not you agree, a lot of people see Stefanski as a very talented coach who is changing the culture and getting the most out of his guys.

 

Now from the JJ Watt POV - last year the Browns had Myles Garrett and 31 year old Olivier Vernon bookending at DE.  Garrett led the way with 12 sacks and 18 QB hits, but Vernon was right up there with 9 sacks and 16 QB hits.  That was a significant jump on his 2019 production (he only played 10 games in 2019) - but it is also a higher number than Watt has had since 2018.  And Vernon was cheaper at $11M/yr.

 

Chances are Watt, like any top player, would bet on himself to show he's an upgrade. 

 

But how do the Browns see it?  Do the Browns want Watt, or do they want to re-up Vernon who knows their system and just demonstrated what he can do as a bookend to Garrett?

 

 

Vernon tore his achilles in week 17. He won't be back. He's solid, but not coming off that injury. 

[george c]

Watt to Browns? He’ll get paid, and the Browns are doing a Whaley type move. 
Beane, I trust.. 

[whatdrought]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Bills fans underrate Cleveland the same way you think they underrate Tennessee. I took a lot of heat for saying they'd beat the Steelers but they did and they gave KC a closer game than us too (albeit with Mahomes going out). 

 

I think the AFC pecking order is:

 

1. KC

2. Buffalo

3. Baltimore / Tenn / Cleveland

4. Colts

5. Everyone else

Cant get the taste of that horrible 4th quarter out of my mouth. Coaches lost the game with incompetence and then got COTY. Stupid.

 

I’ll say it. I expect them to be a .500 team next year. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

Cant get the taste of that horrible 4th quarter out of my mouth. Coaches lost the game with incompetence and then got COTY. Stupid.

 

I’ll say it. I expect them to be a .500 team next year. 

 

I think Cleveland's window is short because they are already paying a lot of guys.... and I am yet to be convinced about Baker's ability to compensate when those guys get stripped away. But I think they will be good again in 2021. Better than Pittsburgh and contending with Baltimore for the division. 

[cle23]

11 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

They had one of the lowest strength of schedules, they got blown out by two division rivals at various points, and they struggled consistently throughout the season to win games against mediocre competition. 
 

Their QB is limited, and their defense has several holes. 
 

If anything, they’re the 2019 Bills, with a worse defense. 
 

Not to say they cant take a step, but they’re overrated and they were very uninspiring in the playoffs- it took a Pit implosion for them to win that, and then they lost to the chiefs backup QB on one of the worst coaching decisions I’ve ever seen. 
 

They have talent, but they’re clearly in the second tier of the AFC. 

 

A Pitt implosion? You're kidding, right? I guess going up 35-7 in the first half had nothing to do with Cleveland.

[Shaw66]

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think Bills fans underrate Cleveland the same way you think they underrate Tennessee. I took a lot of heat for saying they'd beat the Steelers but they did and they gave KC a closer game than us too (albeit with Mahomes going out). 

 

I think the AFC pecking order is:

 

1. KC

2. Buffalo

3. Baltimore / Tenn / Cleveland

4. Colts

5. Everyone else

This list makes sense.   The reason KC and Buffalo are 1 and 2 is the quarterbacks.   The next three have iffy QB situations.   Watt has to be willing to bet on the run-oriented offense the Ravens feature, or bet on Tannehill or Mayfield taking another step forward.   None of them are stupid bets, but each of him asks him to run the risk that he'll need to be part of a truly dominant defense to be sure that his team will win.  Because of their QBs, Buffalo and KC are saying to Watt "we want you to be the best you possibly can be, and you will contribute to making us great on both sides of the ball."  

 

Now, if it's true that money is important to Watt, then the team that's offering the most money likely will be the winner, because, as I said, none of the top five teams would be a stupid choice.  Beane will be smart about how much money he has and what he thinks Watt is worth.  My guess is if the money is important to Watt, someone will outbid Beane.  Watt's older, with more miles on him, than the typical Beane free agent, and I doubt Beane will overspend on him.  

 

If money is secondary to Watt, and the football experience and Super Bowl prospects are what's really important to Watt, then I expect Beane and the Bills will be in the thick of the competition for him.  

[whatdrought]

Just now, cle23 said:

 

A Pitt implosion? You're kidding, right? I guess going up 35-7 in the first half had nothing to do with Cleveland.

Not trolling, just honestly asking this question:

 

Did you watch that game?

[Rc2catch]

7 minutes ago, FireChans said:

And once they do that, they never get told anything again.

 

You see the problem?

I don’t see that as a problem. Does every little snippet need to be scooped? Not to veer too far off topic but there needs to be accountability in all journalism. In the age of social media and fast breaking news journalists and news stations need to be held accountable for what news they share. Instead they can tweet whatever they want and add anonymous sources to it and boom it’s factual news. That ain’t right. 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

 

That story just screams he isn't signing there but appreciates the interest

 

As a bills fan that headline is all too familiar, player in demand really thinking about playing in buffalo. Player proceeds to sign with a New england or Dallas

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

Vernon tore his achilles in week 17. He won't be back. He's solid, but not coming off that injury. 

ooh, I didn’t know that.  Tough happening for him.

[JGMcD2]

3 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

A Pitt implosion? You're kidding, right? I guess going up 35-7 in the first half had nothing to do with Cleveland.

Pittsburgh gave Cleveland the ball 4 times on it’s first 5 drives in their own territory and it was still a two score game late in the second half. 
 

Cleveland capitalized on the opportunities given to them, but it’s not like they did anything extraordinary. A fumbled snap to start the game has nothing to do with Cleveland and Ben staring down his receivers and forcing throws doesn’t either. 
 

I understand it was a huge monkey off the Browns backs to beat Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh but that game was more Pittsburgh imploding than Cleveland dominating. 

[cle23]

5 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Not trolling, just honestly asking this question:

 

Did you watch that game?

 

Obviously. The first play touchdown was kind of a fluke play. The interceptions, the long touchdown pass to Landry, and Chubb and Hunt running all over them weren't flukes by any means.

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, Rc2catch said:

I don’t see that as a problem. Does every little snippet need to be scooped? Not to veer too far off topic but there needs to be accountability in all journalism. In the age of social media and fast breaking news journalists and news stations need to be held accountable for what news they share. Instead they can tweet whatever they want and add anonymous sources to it and boom it’s factual news. That ain’t right. 

I don't think you understand how journalism works. Let's say that reporter got that from JJ's buddy in his camp.  The dude texted her and said, "he's interested in Cleveland." Why would she give up that source, effectively labeling her untrustworthy as a reporter (whose central tenet is in part protecting their sources).

 

IRT to bolded, isn't that kind of the responsibility of the reader? Having healthy skepticism that something may not be true, may be a smokescreen, etc?

 

If you're arguing that journalists shouldn't make stuff up, I agree. If your arguing people reading shouldn't have to be concerned that something might be made up, then basically people are just toddlers without any responsibility, and I don't agree.

[dave mcbride]

2 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Pittsburgh gave Cleveland the ball 4 times on it’s first 5 drives in their own territory and it was still a two score game late in the second half. 
 

Cleveland capitalized on the opportunities given to them, but it’s not like they did anything extraordinary. A fumbled snap to start the game has nothing to do with Cleveland and Ben staring down his receivers and forcing throws doesn’t either. 
 

I understand it was a huge monkey off the Browns backs to beat Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh but that game was more Pittsburgh imploding than Cleveland dominating. 

The Browns made good defensive plays because they were prepared against a predictable qb. Turnovers usually aren't flukes. Some are, but in that game, outside of the first one the others weren't. The better team won.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, Shaw66 said:

This list makes sense.   The reason KC and Buffalo are 1 and 2 is the quarterbacks.   The next three have iffy QB situations.   Watt has to be willing to bet on the run-oriented offense the Ravens feature, or bet on Tannehill or Mayfield taking another step forward.   None of them are stupid bets, but each of him asks him to run the risk that he'll need to be part of a truly dominant defense to be sure that his team will win.  Because of their QBs, Buffalo and KC are saying to Watt "we want you to be the best you possibly can be, and you will contribute to making us great on both sides of the ball."  

 

Now, if it's true that money is important to Watt, then the team that's offering the most money likely will be the winner, because, as I said, none of the top five teams would be a stupid choice.  Beane will be smart about how much money he has and what he thinks Watt is worth.  My guess is if the money is important to Watt, someone will outbid Beane.  Watt's older, with more miles on him, than the typical Beane free agent, and I doubt Beane will overspend on him.  

 

If money is secondary to Watt, and the football experience and Super Bowl prospects are what's really important to Watt, then I expect Beane and the Bills will be in the thick of the competition for him.  

 

Agreed. I was talking more generally about the pecking order in the conference rather than attractiveness to Watt, but I agree totally with your analysis. The three teams I have clustered together are there because they are more limited by their QB situation in different ways. I think they each have another flaw too.... Ravens it is receiving options, the other two it is secondary (and with Tenn pass rush a bit too). The Colts are a solid team with no QB and a lack of special skill players. 

 

As for Watt I see the argument for Tennessee more strongly than I see the argument for Cleveland. Tenn gives him not only a chance to compete but a scheme match and a coaching / ownership familiarity too. Buffalo offers him a scheme change, and no familiarity, but the best chance to win of any of the AFC teams likely to be in the mix. Not sure what the attraction of Cleveland would be. 

[TBBills]

24 minutes ago, ngbills said:

Watt to CLE would not be good for Buffalo.

 

They have a solid squad already and bring back basically everyone. They could sign Watt and still have more space available. They could also look to move OBJ and pick up even more space. Plus they have like 6 picks in the first 4 rounds of the draft. 

 

Gap was not very big between us and them and this would allow them to close it and then some. 

CLE isn't that good anyway so it won't matter.

[cle23]

2 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Pittsburgh gave Cleveland the ball 4 times on it’s first 5 drives in their own territory and it was still a two score game late in the second half. 
 

Cleveland capitalized on the opportunities given to them, but it’s not like they did anything extraordinary. A fumbled snap to start the game has nothing to do with Cleveland and Ben staring down his receivers and forcing throws doesn’t either. 
 

I understand it was a huge monkey off the Browns backs to beat Pittsburgh in Pittsburgh but that game was more Pittsburgh imploding than Cleveland dominating. 

 

If it was Buffalo playing that way it would have been Buffalo "making plays and forcing turnovers."

 

Cleveland obviously needs to improve on defense mostly, but they were opportunistic with turnovers all year. It was a two score game late because like most other teams up that big they played a lot more prevent defense. I think it's stupid that teams do that but it's the nature of the game.

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I don’t see that as a problem. Does every little snippet need to be scooped? Not to veer too far off topic but there needs to be accountability in all journalism. In the age of social media and fast breaking news journalists and news stations need to be held accountable for what news they share. Instead they can tweet whatever they want and add anonymous sources to it and boom it’s factual news. That ain’t right. 

 

But if you expose your sources you are finished. Seriously. I once reported something from an anonymous tip I had from someone inside a soccer club did not name them but they felt other details in the story risked someone working out where the story came from and they refused to even take my calls after that. 

[Rc2catch]

Just now, FireChans said:

I don't think you understand how journalism works. Let's say that reporter got that from JJ's buddy in his camp.  The dude texted her and said, "he's interested in Cleveland." Why would she give up that source, effectively labeling her untrustworthy as a reporter (whose central tenet is in part protecting their sources).

 

IRT to bolded, isn't that kind of the responsibility of the reader? Having healthy skepticism that something may not be true, may be a smokescreen, etc?

 

If you're arguing that journalists shouldn't make stuff up, I agree. If your arguing people reading shouldn't have to be concerned that something might be made up, then basically people are just toddlers without any responsibility, and I don't agree.

That’s how it’s supposed to work though. 
JJ’s buddy is told “is this on the record” if he says yes you tweet away and put his name on it. He says no and you don’t. 
In the older days you didn’t have to attach your sources name but your source was supposed to be verified. Today there’s literally nothing in place at all. There is no longer structure to the news. Anyone can basically state their opinions as fact and even write it up in a way to sound as fact. They just have to add anonymous sources told me. 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The Browns made good defensive plays because they were prepared against a predictable qb. Turnovers usually aren't flukes. Some are, but in that game, outside of the first one the others weren't. The better team won.

 

totally agree and actually while the game was tight Pittsburgh could hardly get a first down. Once they had a big league they played D differently to try and protect their weak secondary. A lot of those Steelers points in the attempted comeback were soft and as soon as the Browns needed to step on the gas again they took the game away fast. Cleveland is a better team than Pittsburgh. 

[whatdrought]

5 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

Obviously. The first play touchdown was kind of a fluke play. The interceptions, the long touchdown pass to Landry, and Chubb and Hunt running all over them weren't flukes by any means.

It took 5 turnovers (one for a touchdown), one of the worst punt decisions of the season (matched by Stefanski the next week) and a dropped pick six for the Browns to win by 11. That’s not a dominate win. Its not to take away from them- a win is a win and I don’t care how it happens. But the Steelers absolutely imploded. 
 

As you said - they led by 28 at halftime, but it ended up being a two score game. 

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

That’s how it’s supposed to work though. 
JJ’s buddy is told “is this on the record” if he says yes you tweet away and put his name on it. He says no and you don’t. 
In the older days you didn’t have to attach your sources name but your source was supposed to be verified. Today there’s literally nothing in place at all. There is no longer structure to the news. Anyone can basically state their opinions as fact and even write it up in a way to sound as fact. They just have to add anonymous sources told me. 

 

I agree it is a real challenge. I am glad I am no longer a journalist because separating the reliable from the fake in a world where everyone has a platform but only some have a responsibility and a professional code is one of the challenges of our times. 

[cle23]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

It took 5 turnovers (one for a touchdown), one of the worst punt decisions of the season (matched by Stefanski the next week) and a dropped pick six for the Browns to win by 11. That’s not a dominate win. Its not to take away from them- a win is a win and I don’t care how it happens. But the Steelers absolutely imploded. 
 

As you said - they led by 28 at halftime, but it ended up being a two score game. 

 

Because they played prevent defense for the entire second half. Most teams would in that situation.

 

Like I said in a previous post, I think it's stupid when teams do that. Keep playing the way you were playing to get where you were. But a vast majority of teams with a 28-point lead will soften up and trade yards for time off the clock.

[whatdrought]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

totally agree and actually while the game was tight Pittsburgh could hardly get a first down. Once they had a big league they played D differently to try and protect their weak secondary. A lot of those Steelers points in the attempted comeback were soft and as soon as the Browns needed to step on the gas again they took the game away fast. Cleveland is a better team than Pittsburgh. 

 

I don’t debate that last line, but the game was a lot closer than it should have been. I don’t care about prevent. If Tomlin has testicles and goes for 4th and 1 at midfield, they likely go down and score making it a 5 point game. Cleveland’s offense struggled in the third quarter. Impossible to say what happens then.

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

I don’t debate that last line, but the game was a lot closer than it should have been. I don’t care about prevent. If Tomlin has testicles and goes for 4th and 1 at midfield, they likely go down and score making it a 5 point game. Cleveland’s offense struggled in the third quarter. Impossible to say what happens then.

 

I couldn't see any way for Pittsburgh to win that game. They were outplayed everywhere.